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[Issue] DUST 514 Console Exclusivity

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Ralmus Awsine	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:11:00 - [1] I feel that it would be good to start a discussion about this in an area where it might actually make a difference. Since CCP has given the community a voice through the Council, I would like to say to the Council that I am strongly against console exclusivity for DUST. It is important to note, I do play console games. I own both a PS3 and Xbox 360, yet given the option I would always choose to play an FPS on the PC over any console. A mouse an keyboard is simply better suited to that style of gameplay than a controller. They say that the issue is the need to focus on creating a good console experience. To counter this, I point to Call of Duty 4. This game is available for both the PC and Consoles, and functions superbly on both. I own the game for PC, but some time ago had access to it strictly for Xbox 360. It certainly played great, and I put my time in, but still, given the choice, I vastly prefer the game on my computer. Beyond this, excluding DUST players from alliance chat via Ventrilo and TeamSpeak is a definite detriment. I hope this thread can be used to discuss the issue, and maybe, hopefully, get my way.
Trilor Dransir Caldari	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:17:00 - [2] I agree, I would love to play this game but am completely unwilling to buy a console for only one game. (I don't need to know about console games i don't like most of them so there is no point to argue that consoles have good games as I'm not saying that they don't)
Jasonwilliams	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:23:00 - [3] Edited by: Jasonwilliams on 19/08/2009 00:24:38 Agreed, console exclusivity for this type of game that has such a big impact on our gaming experience shouldn't be left just to the consoles. In fact, I believe the reserve should be said IMHO. The game should be a PC exclusive so that we PC gamers have control over our own fate in Eve instead of having to worry about a lot of little kids playing the game(not saying that all console players are little kids, but a lot of them are eliteists. So why should a console eliteist help a PC gamer?). Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels. Zymurgist
Sera Ryskin	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:27:00 - [4] Console-only is pure bull**, and a stab in the back to the loyal PC gamers who have made EVE so great. The lack of a keyboard and mouse sucks, the need to buy an expensive console just for one game sucks, and the inevitable death of the game once the next console comes out sucks. Either release a PC version (and a GOOD PC version, not just a low-quality port) or scrap the entire project. And if you absolutely must ignore the wishes of your customers and make it console-only, DO NOT make it have any influence on the main EVE game. The only thing more bull** than a game we aren't able to play is a game we aren't able to play that can take away everything we've worked for in EVE. ========== Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!
Herschel Yamamoto Agent-Orange	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:30:00 - [5] Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 19/08/2009 00:35:08 I've never used a PS3 or Xbox 360, but don't they have USB ports, and can't they support keyboards and mice? I'm fully in favour of them supporting that input scheme in Dust, because a controller is the mouse's ******ed nephew for FPS work, but as long as they do the choice of systems to be played on is sort of secondary to me. I'd prefer not to have to buy a console to play it, but from a point of view of game design, I'm cool with them doing whatever as long as the players can use mice. Edit: I also don't understand the hate for console players being allowed to play alongside us. Did you rip on CCP for letting the tofu-eaters play with us when they released a Mac client, or the agoraphobes play on Linux? And don't give me the "We can't play it!" nonsense - I can't play a 100-man fleet. Hell, I can't even fly a Punisher. Does that mean that Amarr is evil, and should be removed from the game? Does that mean that gang sizes should be limited to what one person can multi-box? You build your alliances out of corps, now go build them out of corps and guilds. You can't play it, find someone who can and get them on board.
Jasonwilliams	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:33:00 - [6] Edited by: Jasonwilliams on 19/08/2009 00:34:45 Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto I've never used a PS3 or Xbox 360, but don't they have USB ports, and can't they support keyboards and mice? I'm fully in favour of them supporting that input scheme in Dust, because a controller is the mouse's ******ed nephew for FPS work, but as long as they do the choice of systems to be played on is sort of secondary to me. I'd prefer not to have to buy a console to play it, but from a point of view of game design, I'm cool with them doing whatever as long as the players can use mice. You would need a mouse AND keyboard that require NO drivers what so ever for them to function on either system. There is a controller for the PS3 called the FragFX that kind of mimics a keyboard and mouse, but it's compatibility and usability are really low according to a few users I've talked to about it. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels. Zymurgist
Ralmus Awsine	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:34:00 - [7] Edited by: Ralmus Awsine on 19/08/2009 00:34:10 The chance of them adding mouse support on a console is slim to none. If Metal Gear Solid 4 didn't have the clout as a company to make it happen, something they claimed the game would have from the start, I seriously doubt CCP will. I honestly believe there is something going on with console developers that dictates that consoles can not use mouse and keyboard. Call me crazy but why else would it not have happened yet?
Sable Blitzmann Eve University	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:38:00 - [8] Agreed. Also, shameless plug: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1153199 Sign it if you agree! We need to get the attention of both CCP and the CSM!
4THELULZ	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:43:00 - [9] Supported, not much more to say really. I think a PC version would be great.
Jeebus Cynoalt	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:43:00 - [10] /Signed. I really think SOE dropped the ball on this one...

vixxen Miner	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:45:00 - [11] I don't agree with this because I want to be able to convince my wife into letting me buy a ps3 for christmas. However I do agree a keyboard and mouse is superior in FPS games so if CCP can implement those into Dust that would be greatly appreciated. FYI drivers for keyboards and mouses are pretty much standardised anyways so an implementation of such a thing may not be that difficult especially when we are talking about USB devices. And FYI what call of duty 4 does and what ccp does are two different things. If call of duty 4 decides to jump off a cliff do you think ccp will?
Davin Forsosa	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:50:00 - [12] I must say I'm extremely dissappointed about this console exclusive release. I'm all for consoles having their own exclusive titles, but not when they are based on a PC title. With the development process being the way it is, I don't understand why PC can't at the very least cannot receive a direct port. Not happy at all.
Ralmus Awsine	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:51:00 - [13] Simply stating that creating a game that plays well on both platforms is both doable and has been done.
vixxen Miner	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:52:00 - [14] Perhaps CCP is worried that people will play an eve client and a dust client at the same time on their computer, thus allowing one person to provide fleet support, and to be a ground troop at the same time. Not that I'm saying they couldn't just have their tv near by and do the same thing. Why are we talking about this instead of real questions like: Can mercs just travel from planet to planet and conquer them on their own, or do they have to travel in the same eve universe via transport ships, and escape through gate camps just to get to a planet? That is what I'm most worried about. If they have to get through a fleet first before they get to a planet in order to take it over. Also these planets under control of Alliances will they be required to have troops on the planets to guard them at all times?
Trilor Dransir Caldari	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:55:00 - [15] Originally by: vixxen Miner Perhaps CCP is worried that people will play an eve client and a dust client at the same time on their computer, thus allowing one person to provide fleet support, and to be a ground troop at the same time. Not that I'm saying they couldn't just have their tv near by and do the same thing. Why are we talking about this instead of real questions like: Can mercs just travel from planet to planet and conquer them on their own, or do they have to travel in the same eve universe via transport ships, and escape through gate camps just to get to a planet? That is what I'm most worried about. If they have to get through a fleet first before they get to a planet in order to take it over. Also these planets under control of Alliances will they be required to have troops on the planets to guard them at all times? CCP know's people like to dual box, so I don't that is a very big issue. And for the movement of troops seeing how they where talking about being casual I'd think it safe to assume that it would like a jump clone insta-teleport thing. Maybe the corp or alliance just produces empty clones and the players queue up to into them etc etc... teleport
Ephemeron North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:56:00 - [16] I'm sure CCP are aware that they are excluding large numbers of people from buying the game with console requirement. They gotta have some really clever reason for it. Did CCP share it with us in any interview? I'm sure it's one of the first things any interviewer would ask
Ralmus Awsine	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:57:00 - [17] K: What we have been asked by our readers is: why only make the game available for console and not for PC? CCP: Shooter on a console are different as shooters on the PC. We want to concentrate on developing a good console shooter.
vixxen Miner	Posted - 2009.08.19 00:58:00 - [18] Edited by: vixxen Miner on 19/08/2009 00:59:04 well you see that would be bullcrap, I think they should have to escape fleets and physically transport the troops from planet to planet in order for this to be a more fair system. Although I really have no room to talk because I know nothing on how the mechanics will really work in dust, and how they actually transport personnel from planet to planet will work.
vixxen Miner	Posted - 2009.08.19 01:02:00 - [19] I'm also worried about whether if you have an eve account allready will you beable to play dust for free, or will you need to buy a totally new account. Also if so would they provide a discount for those that do have eve accounts?
Wacoede Allied Combat Team	Posted - 2009.08.19 01:02:00 - [20] supported make sure you tick the little box that say you support this topic my guess is the CSM and CCP use the supports column to sort what gets discussed and what is just people whining about nothing ___________________________________________________ Originally by: Avery Fatwallet when someone sez "eve is too tuff" standard reply is "can i have stuff?"

Ralmus Awsine	Posted - 2009.08.19 01:02:00 - [21] I would appreciate the thread not be derailed. If you'd like to speculate, the general forums would be a better medium. This thread is for discussion on a specific, tangible issue. Thanks guys.
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.08.19 01:02:00 - [22] Ahhh... was wondering when this would show up in assembly hall. PC vs. Console tears... taste just as good as the rest. Please stop speculating on something with so little information.
Herschel Yamamoto Agent-Orange	Posted - 2009.08.19 01:03:00 - [23] Originally by: vixxen Miner Perhaps CCP is worried that people will play an eve client and a dust client at the same time on their computer, thus allowing one person to provide fleet support, and to be a ground troop at the same time. Not that I'm saying they couldn't just have their tv near by and do the same thing. Why are we talking about this instead of real questions like: Can mercs just travel from planet to planet and conquer them on their own, or do they have to travel in the same eve universe via transport ships, and escape through gate camps just to get to a planet? That is what I'm most worried about. If they have to get through a fleet first before they get to a planet in order to take it over. Also these planets under control of Alliances will they be required to have troops on the planets to guard them at all times? It's nothing like that, they're just trying to tap into a new market. Cool idea, if they can pull it off.
Lt Shard Mentis Fidelis Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2009.08.19 01:09:00 - [24] CCP could get more profit as most eve players would buy it on pc. _________________________ Yes, I know the Titan is small in my sig.
vixxen Miner	Posted - 2009.08.19 01:10:00 - [25] Perhaps a ploy then with sony and microsoft to bring in sales for christmas time? Maybe farfetched, don't see much a reason other than to stint the existing players of eve to run multiple accounts at the same time.
kyrieee	Posted - 2009.08.19 01:12:00 - [26] 1. Dust 2. ???? 3. Profit!
Slave 2739FKZ	Posted - 2009.08.19 01:17:00 - [27] Edited by: Slave 2739FKZ on 19/08/2009 01:18:46 So now you need a console to play EVE (as both games are related and have mutual influence in the game world). Just fck off Sony and MS, CCP sellout lol. Also: console games have a life span of ... how long? Think about how well that will mix with a persistent world like EVE-O. Terrible idea CCP. Quote:* K: What we have been asked by our readers is: why only make the game available for console and not for PC? CCP: Shooter on a console are different as shooters on the PC. We want to concentrate on developing a good console shooter. FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
vixxen Miner	Posted - 2009.08.19 01:19:00 - [28] Originally by: Slave 2739FKZ So now you need a console to play EVE (as both games are related and have mutual influence in the game world). Just f*ck off Sony and MS, CCP sellout lol. Also: console games have a life span of ... how long? Think about how well that will mix with a persistent world like EVE-O. Terrible idea CCP. That was me speculating, not factual. Also I honestly think consoles can handle the graphics of eve online anyways, plus the fact they have the storage to run it, all you need is a keyboard and a mouse. So why not on a console?
Taedrin Gallente The Space Bar South The Compass	Posted - 2009.08.19 01:19:00 - [29] I'm going to have to disagree. Consoles offer several things over PCs: 1) A stable platform that never changes - if CCP releases DUST 514 ONLY for the 360, for example, then CCP only needs to test their product on one platform - the 360. If they were to release a PC version, they would have to test on hundreds, if not thousands of combinations of hardware. 2) Consoles offer a more secure platform to operate on than PCs. CCP has realised that the PC is an insecure platform. To put it simply, they can not control the code that runs on your computer. If you want to run aimbots/hacking/cheating programs, there is little they can do to stop you without resorting to draconian DRM which has limited effectiveness and causes stability issues. True - consoles can be modded. However, this is harder to do and costs money as compared to downloading a cheat program for free off the internet and installing it. Aside from these two things, if CCP releases both a PC and a console version, the PC player will have a definite advantage over the console player, as the PC players has precise aiming and control with the use of the keyboard and mouse. The game will become fun for PC players, and not fun for console players, unless you segregate the two. ON top of this, unless CCP already has a PC version planned, it will be excessively time consuming to port from the 360/PS3 to PC, due to fundamental differences of hardware architecture (not just the fact that the 360 uses the PPC instruction set while PCs use either x86 or AMD64.) All in all, porting DUST 514 to PC would be too expensive unless CCP has been planning to from the get go. not signed.
Sera Ryskin	Posted - 2009.08.19 01:24:00 - [30] Originally by: Taedrin I'm going to have to disagree. Consoles offer several things over PCs: 1) A stable platform that never changes - if CCP releases DUST 514 ONLY for the 360, for example, then CCP only needs to test their product on one platform - the 360. If they were to release a PC version, they would have to test on hundreds, if not thousands of combinations of hardware. And yet somehow countless companies (CCP included) manage to make PC games that work just fine. Quote: 2) Consoles offer a more secure platform to operate on than PCs. CCP has realised that the PC is an insecure platform. To put it simply, they can not control the code that runs on your computer. If you want to run aimbots/hacking/cheating programs, there is little they can do to stop you without resorting to draconian DRM which has limited effectiveness and causes stability issues. True - consoles can be modded. However, this is harder to do and costs money as compared to downloading a cheat program for free off the internet and installing it. And somehow CCP manages to keep EVE running relatively hack-free. Quote: Aside from these two things, if CCP releases both a PC and a console version, the PC player will have a definite advantage over the console player, as the PC players has precise aiming and control with the use of the keyboard and mouse. The game will become fun for PC players, and not fun for console players, unless you segregate the two. Too bad. Sucks to be a console player, huh? And this is WHY it will suck on a console, as you admit, the mouse and keyboard is infinitely superior to a controller in FPS games. Quote: All in all, porting DUST 514 to PC would be too expensive unless CCP has been planning to from the get go. Then if it's so difficult they need to scrap the project, and use the art assets to produce a proper PC FPS. ========== Merin is currently enjoying a 14 day vacation from the forums. Until she returns, you've got me to entertain you!



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