So then how would your proposed choice between exile and a bribe be anything other than paying isk if you want to escape sec hits?

With all this effort going into "save us" posts, how about even looking into any existing possibilities to protect yourself and organize your own safety. I mean you're not bound by game mechanics to mine afk without a tank in busy systems or systems with only a few belts. I don't see any "go forth and gank" buttons in the UI, yet you seem to want artificial safety.

Oh yeah "we don't want to ban ganking but make it so gankers are not allowed in high sec" . Brilliant logic and totally objective as expected

Upon thinking about this deeply, I came to the accurate conclusion that the penalty for suicide ganking is too high.

Gankee: Loses a ship.
Ganker: Loses a ship & sec status.

Perhaps a compromise would be in order. The ganker could either not take a sec hit, or the gankee could also take a sec hit. This would make the situation fair to both sides.

Did you in fact think at all, or does the gankees ship lack cargo-space?

Does the gankers ship also lack cargo space?

Can you show me those laws, please? This is a serious question because it's the first time that I hear that a capsuleer is under any form of government control. I learned from the back story that open space is dangerous and only the wealthy that can afford clones venture there. For very good reason!

You leave the safety of a station or a planet and there is no police to go after criminals. There is only CONCORD to stop unsanctioned acts of aggression. CONCORD has the simply function to keep violence at a tolerable level, what they do. The empires have their own problems (like a serious lack of presidents) that they can't deal with all those pirates that operate in open space. Why do you want to shift the burden to solve conflicts to them? Heck, there are still Minmatar children die by starvation!

We capsuleers have anything we need to handle our conflicts ourselves. There is no need of the empires to step up and start to restrict our freedom with their government bullshit.

With all this effort going into "save us" posts, how about even looking into any existing possibilities to protect yourself and organize your own safety. I mean you're not bound by game mechanics to mine afk without a tank in busy systems or systems with only a few belts. I don't see any "go forth and gank" buttons in the UI, yet you seem to want artificial safety.

Oh yeah "we don't want to ban ganking but make it so gankers are not allowed in high sec" . Brilliant logic and totally objective as expected

Well the high sec game mechanics are the problem. They do not allow players to defend themselves. They only allow for concord retribution after the fact. That is what most peoples problems are with them or at least mine. Of course that problem goes away in low sec or null.

If a method can be found to allow players to defend themselves from gankers in high sec without getting concorded then the risk of operating in high sec would be restored IMHO. But I have no idea how to make that happen. AS of right now all of the methods that would work the best are as illegal in high sec as ganking is. In other words any method that has a real chance to defeat a ganker fleet and save the defender also will get the defender concorded. High sec needs a stand your ground rule (mechanic).

Come one, I'm offering you argument here far from whatever the **** you received yours. Could you please be so kind to not give of such a completely ignorant response that I might just have to ask Mr. Darwin what went wrong with you?

No, no, Hakaari, don't be so hard on him.

Yes, I must - it's for his benefit.

No, no. He can't help it.

He has freedom of choice; born free into an absurd world, so spoke Mr. Camus.

Indeed, but that doesn't mean-

Ooooh. I was wondering how long it would take for such obvious and constant stupidity on these forums to literally drive me insane.

Is the gankees ship empty? Why, then, is it attacked?

It wasn't a thought through penalty. Someone asked for an example and I delivered it.

Penalties should be much more thought through with consideration to the economy and the affect it would have on the game as a whole.

Haha, nice. But really all your post, just like all the other crybabies, boils down to is what I said. You upset that I didn't repond to exact phrases you may have typed by pretending to be objective? You can't expect at this stage for people to even bother having intellectual arguments. Especially since the topic is born out of stupidity and willful ignorance.

Ganking has plenty of penalty. Asking if the penalty is too low is simply implying how it is bad and should be dealt with. Based on what? Opinion?




The original post actually.

Your wallet goes negative. See rule #2

2) If your wallet is negative, you cannot board any ship except a shuttle.

I most definitely believe that suicide ganking is unbalanced. The risk/reward is completely skewed. No risk (You plan on losing your ship anyways) and plenty of reward. Basically, it's like handing out candy to the dude that sets up a machine gun nest right next to a freeway and starts unloading into passing cars.

I'd say the best solution is to levy a sizable fine OR have all modules/cargo destroyed. It's not even about protecting carebears really. It's Just the same argument against being able to make isk in high sec. If you do something with virtually no risk, there should be virtually no reward. Suicide ganking, as it stands, is really less risk than running missions.

If you institute either control, only the juciest targets will be suicide ganked, along with the occasional victim of a sociopath ganking for the laughs. And really, it's your fault if you leave 2bil in modules on a ship. It's like walking down a dark alley in the bad part of town, drunk off your ass and covered in money.

Another option is to just add in more risk. I'm not really sure how to actually add risk to such an event though. Maybe have suicide ganking come with a pod kill via concord along with an SP loss? I don't know. I really have no idea how to add actual risk to such an endeavor. Wish I did though, so suicide ganking could be somewhat legitimate instead of a game of gank the unarmed civilian and get free cash.

Ok, come up with a harsher penalty that doesn't break the rule on NPCs podding, doesn't impose artificial travel restrictions, and doesn't automagically whisk isk out of the ganker's wallet. Since none of those things happen in game currently, there's no reason to add them.

I'll wait.

To choose between a 50- 100m bribe with a low sec status (because CONCORD will keep their eyes on you) and exile. If one wishes to return from exile one must establish contact with CONCORD, which will happen when entering a CONCORD guarded gate; they will talk to you and you will offer them a bribe - with interest.

You're asking for a fast reply so you'll get a fast reply. The above example is just a possibility. The size of the bribe could of course be affected by other things, such as skills in Social and/or previous gankings, etc.

To choose between a 50- 100m bribe with a low sec status (because CONCORD will keep their eyes on you) and exile. If one wishes to return from exile one must establish contact with CONCORD, which will happen when entering a CONCORD guarded gate; they will talk to you and you will offer them a bribe - with interest.

You're asking for a fast reply so you'll get a fast reply. The above example is just a possibility. The size of the bribe could of course be affected by other things, such as skills in Social and/or previous gankings, etc.

What risk do miners have? (besides Suicide Ganks which you're trying to ban)

Why don't miners make it unrewarding to suicide gank? A tank fit hulk isn't profitable to gank. A Mining fit Rokh is even worse. The only reason Suicide ganking is profitable is because miners allow it to be.

The risk miners have is probably suicide. I know I'd put a round in my head if I had to make my isk through mining. Also, who said I'm trying to BAN suicide ganking? I'm arguing against it's profitability. If you want to go kill unarmed civilians in job lots, go do it. Go nuts. Have a field day with it. I'm only asking that the activity have a risk associated with it, or at the least, enough consequences to make it something other than free isk.

Suicide Ganking isn't the equivalent of shooting people. It's the equivalent of blowing up construction equipment, stealing the scrap and selling that. The explosives you use are the equivalent of the gank ship.

Stealing scrap from construction sites is incredibly profitable in RL, judging by the number of people who get caught doing it. Getting to blow up and salvage the huge equipment would be even more profitable.

Stealing scrap also comes with real penalties. You know, things like jail time. It has risks associated with the rewards. Suicide ganking does not. It's just free and easy isk. Sure, if you're lucky enough to find the motherlode walking around in an uncloaked stealth bomber on auto pilot, feel free to profit greatly. Outside of those extremely lucky occasions, the costs/risks associated with suicide ganking (for profit, not fun) should be substantial enough to warrant actual consideration.

Stealing scrap also comes with real penalties. You know, things like jail time. It has risks associated with the rewards. Suicide ganking does not. It's just free and easy isk. Sure, if you're lucky enough to find the motherlode walking around in an uncloaked stealth bomber on auto pilot, feel free to profit greatly. Outside of those extremely lucky occasions, the costs/risks associated with suicide ganking (for profit, not fun) should be substantial enough to warrant actual consideration.

You can't be a murderer in a world of immortals.

Suicide Ganking comes with real penalties. You know, things like getting your ship blown up. It has risks associated with the rewards. The risk of a bad loot drop. The risk of unexpected tankiness. The risk of whoops forgot to OH. The costs of suicide ganking for profit are very substantial compared to the expected reward, it costs ~10m Isk to gank something with an expected drop worth ~10m ISK.

And you can't count any player bounties in your reward calculation, because player events aren't something you balance on.

That's like saying going to a firing range is dangerous because if you're really stupid you can put a bullet in yourself. You can scan ships, and you can build a ship for suicide ganking with 2m ISK. Even poor loot drops are profitable unless you're throwing full T2 destroyers away firing on the first thing you can get a lock on before it warps out. You've already chosen to sacrifice the ship as well, so it's hardly a risk. You know exactly what you're losing, you can scan to make an educated guess of what you'll receive. You kinda have to put your try hard pants on induce any possibility of losing isk on this. That's an accomplishment along the lines of committing suicide by holding your breath. It takes serious dedication to do yourself harm to pull off.