| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Koerner
   |
Posted - 2009.09.10 12:08:00 -
[151]
More on ponzie schemes: Here's how I would do it in eve!
As mentioned in my previous post, I would need a large amount of capital. It would make most sense if I already had a large amount of legitimate business. As investors trickle in, I would separate their investments into a separate wallet, just to keep things clear and manageable. I would then use my legitimate business to cover the weekly payouts. This is critical, because if the scheme were to suddenly go south for some reason, I could return the investments and bail, still appearing to be completley legitimate and further establishing my credibility. Live to scheme another day.
Although, at the start, an audit would be ponzie-suicide, it is something I would consider down the road. Once I had some initial investors on the hooks, I would make sure to start some actual business. If my scheme had something to do with megacyte (but undefined), I would begin setting up buy orders, contracts, and sell orders which somehow involved megacyte. I would be sure to run these operations with the account in which I keep the investors money, and I would be sure to mix it up as much as possible with as many alts as possible. The goal here is to create a set of false books that are completely indecipherable. With three different alts running orders around megactye spread around the galaxy, I could ensure I had a bunch of transactions that seemed to do things. So long as its all very confusing and official looking, who really (in eve) is going to be able to figure out it's just apperances? The transactions could be profitable, but I really only need to break even. Anybody in trade knows that it's pretty easy to break even. It took whole teams of trained FBI accountants months (if not years) to unravel Madoff. Who in Eve is going to rival this??
And that's pretty much it. I cover my payouts early on so I can always cut and run. When I get enough investors, I start working on a false set of books. Then, once it's all thoroughly interwoven, I open up the books for audit and let it snowball from there.
|
SetrakDark
|
Posted - 2009.09.10 12:58:00 -
[152]
Edited by: SetrakDark on 10/09/2009 12:58:21
Wow, koerner. my thoughts exactly. well done.
|
Tsang Chou
|
Posted - 2009.09.10 13:14:00 -
[153]
Confirmation of payment received! Keep up the good work, General.
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2009.09.10 15:59:00 -
[154]
I've received General Newbold's full API key and can confirm that he's been making the scheduled payments on his bond to the holders listed at the start of this thread. However, the heart of the operation remains opaque to me - General Newbold has been used only to make the interest payments.
The isk raised from the bond has been transferred to Lord Newbold, a character on another account, who has subsequently returned it to pay out the interest. I have been provided with a limited API key as proof of ownership. I am informed that this character is used to perform trades via private contracts; LN has no trade skills.
---
34.4:1 mineral compression
ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Dzil
Caldari
Sausage Banking
|
Posted - 2009.09.10 16:53:00 -
[155]
 Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
I've received General Newbold's full API key and can confirm that he's been making the scheduled payments on his bond to the holders listed at the start of this thread. However, the heart of the operation remains opaque to me - General Newbold has been used only to make the interest payments.
The isk raised from the bond has been transferred to Lord Newbold, a character on another account, who has subsequently returned it to pay out the interest. I have been provided with a limited API key as proof of ownership. I am informed that this character is used to perform trades via private contracts; LN has no trade skills.
Thank you, Kazuo. Please understand that the following is not a dig on your service, but rather the incomplete job which you've been requested to do.
This is crap. Don't be fooled by the fact that there's an "audit" on this bond. The general hasn't provided a single piece of evidence that any profitable trading is taking place at all. In fact he's paid for an auditor while specifically denying him the access needed to verify this. There's only circumstancial evidence at this point, but all of it points towards a scam.
Visual Aid:
LEGIT - - - - 0 - - - - >>SCAM
Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m |
Koerner
|
Posted - 2009.09.11 05:29:00 -
[156]
With regards to this new audit:
That's basically what I predicted before the auditor made the post. The "investors" money is kept in a separate wallet which is not disclosed (at least, not yet). The front man for the operation is used purely for making the weekly payouts.
Again, this thing continues to fit every element of a ponzie scheme.
|
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2009.09.11 21:59:00 -
[157]
always was and still is a scam
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
|
Posted - 2009.09.11 22:48:00 -
[158]
The audit is not complete until there's evidence of the cash flow.
-
Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
Kapila Parthalan
|
Posted - 2009.09.11 22:53:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
I've received General Newbold's full API key and can confirm that he's been making the scheduled payments on his bond to the holders listed at the start of this thread. However, the heart of the operation remains opaque to me - General Newbold has been used only to make the interest payments.
The isk raised from the bond has been transferred to Lord Newbold, a character on another account, who has subsequently returned it to pay out the interest. I have been provided with a limited API key as proof of ownership. I am informed that this character is used to perform trades via private contracts; LN has no trade skills.
Unless General Newbold provides the full API key for the account(s) on which the trading is actually taking place, this audit is nearly useless. All it reveals is that General Newbold was not stupid enough to have alt investors on the same accounts and that he actually sent out payments, which doesn't prove anything. It is also suspicious that Lord Newbold has no trade skills.
General Newbold, can you explain why you only provided a limited API for Lord Newbold? This is extremely suspicious. Also, I note that you have not yet answered Tekota's question:
Originally by: Tekota
Straight up question: Is General Salvage an alt of General Newbold?
Kazuo, is General Salvage a character on one of the accounts you can access?
If a full audit was completed and all of these concerns are addressed, I might be willing to invest, but at this time this appears far too much like a scam.
|
Nif Makria
Caldari
Eve Engineering Finance
|
Posted - 2009.09.11 22:57:00 -
[160]
just got back from holiday...
received 5% each Sunday (for past 2 weeks)
I'll post again when I receive my next 5% (on Sunday)
|
General Newbold
|
Posted - 2009.09.14 13:32:00 -
[161]
im currently experiencing problems associated with saturday and sundays crash
I worked around the clock yesterday (i was on for around 13 hours) to get this resolved
Basically over the last few days i have been in a wormhole scouting a system
dueing saturdays unplanned crash i had just gone through a wormhole, and when i returned the WH had collapsed leaving me in a system i had no map of, i amaged to sort this out sunday morning after a lot of fustration
On sunday Nightthe server went down again, at the time i was using my main char to ship some pos fuel in, and my backup char was in my WH scanning - when the server went down I had 5 probes out - and it seems like the server went mad, because when it returned i only had 2 probes in my hold (i alsways carry 10) so for some reason i didnt get my probes back, meaning i was stuck for a long time!
This has set me behind for 2 days, Also the forums being down yesterday meant that i didnt have a copy of who to mail, I did speak to the odd person, but not all
Ideally i need the API up so i can deal with my assets, but i will arrange payment for everyone today.
Sorry for the problems
G
|
Miyahon
Gallente
LEM0N
|
Posted - 2009.09.14 13:41:00 -
[162]
50m received in the early hours of this morning.
Cheers
|
Nif Makria
Caldari
Eve Engineering Finance
|
Posted - 2009.09.14 17:22:00 -
[163]
my 3rd payment of 5% arrived today.
spoke to General online about the WH issues - but end of the day he hasnt let me down for 3 weeks in a row.
roll on my 4th :)
|
Fresh Prince
For us all
|
Posted - 2009.09.14 17:43:00 -
[164]
Interest payment received again...
going good here |
Einear Lightfingers
|
Posted - 2009.09.14 17:49:00 -
[165]
Another interest payment received. Keep up the great work.
|
Tsang Chou
|
Posted - 2009.09.14 20:53:00 -
[166]
Interest payment received. Good work!
|
General Newbold
|
Posted - 2009.09.14 21:24:00 -
[167]
most payments made, will pay the rest in the AM
|
RageWreaker
|
Posted - 2009.09.14 22:28:00 -
[168]
payment received, thanks.
|
Varnik
|
Posted - 2009.09.15 01:08:00 -
[169]
Payment received.
Thanks.
|
Lucien Cade
|
Posted - 2009.09.15 07:40:00 -
[170]
Payment recieved
|
Linia
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2009.09.15 10:49:00 -
[171]
Got my dividend today.
And private convo aswell. very good service
|
Mikael Genexi
Gallente
Product Number 3
|
Posted - 2009.09.15 19:47:00 -
[172]
Last week I got tired of all the Ponzi scheme blah-blah and Ingenting's "outing" of GN's API and decided to reinvest in GN to the tune of 500M.
I got my first 25M interest payment back already.
I have to say, if GN is running a Ponzi scheme, he is doing a crappy job of it by paying out so much Isk all the time.
|
ginlaaan
Gallente
Paxton Industries
Paxton Federation
|
Posted - 2009.09.15 20:34:00 -
[173]
please reserve 1 spot for 500 million isk for ginlaaan.
will await further instruction from you either in convo or evemail as your post suggest.
--Ginlaaan-- |
Jin Nib
|
Posted - 2009.09.15 23:18:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Mikael Genexi
Last week I got tired of all the Ponzi scheme blah-blah and Ingenting's "outing" of GN's API and decided to reinvest in GN to the tune of 500M.
I got my first 25M interest payment back already.
I have to say, if GN is running a Ponzi scheme, he is doing a crappy job of it by paying out so much Isk all the time.
That would be because you don't understand how a Ponzi scheme works, which is disturbing given that Koener made two excellent posts detailing such a scheme. (beginning of this page and second to last on the 5th)
Also I may point out the sticking it to the naysayers by doing something which has absolutely nothing to do with them (ie investing your money to prove a point) is pretty silly. But then so is you portrait so good RPing.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
|
General Newbold
|
Posted - 2009.09.15 23:29:00 -
[175]
this is not a ponzi scheme!
end of!
|
Thoraemond
Minmatar
Far Ranger
|
Posted - 2009.09.16 01:48:00 -
[176]
Originally by: General Newbold
this is not a ponzi scheme! end of!
Oh, well then, you should have just said so earli... hey, wait a second, that's exactly what you might be expected to say if it is a Ponzi scheme!
á
á
|
Kravotir
APOCALYPSE LEGION
|
Posted - 2009.09.16 06:27:00 -
[177]
Payment received - as promised. Got an update from Newbold on how things are going in private convo as well.
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.09.16 09:49:00 -
[178]
People here have no sense of business.
Exactly like in RL, those who entered early have gathered the best margins.
Now, if they believe it's a Ponzi, they can exit the business and enjoy the fat interests. The others who will jump on a Ponzi late, will only lose their capital with no fat interest.
-
Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
andyt123
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
|
Posted - 2009.09.21 22:50:00 -
[179]
I have been quietly watching this thread for the last few weeks, with a view to possibly investing.
I think I have changed my mind.
As it's all gone quiet this week I wondered if any of the investers have received this weeks interest? |
Mithrass
|
Posted - 2009.09.22 06:57:00 -
[180]
I was just about to post something similar.
"no". would be my guess. |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 [6] 7 8 9 10 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |