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Dzil
Caldari
Sausage Banking
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Posted - 2009.09.25 03:02:00 -
[211]
 Originally by: Mikael Genexi
You have all forgotten the masterstroke of this whole scheme!
When the General comes back and starts paying everyone again and fixing his "computer problem" he will look like a hero and his offer will suddenly seem legit.
That's when he rakes in the big bucks and can scam like he's never scammed before!
Or you could go with the obvious, which is that he really does have a computer problem and EVE is not a high priority for him at the moment.
Believe what you like. I know a lot of people that jointly have been waiting about 2000 years for some guy to come back and give them eternal life. Good luck with that.
Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m |
Mikael Genexi
Gallente
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2009.09.25 03:29:00 -
[212]
I'm quite sure most of the investors will be willing to write things off before 2000 years go by.
I'm also quite sure that most of the investors will be willing to give the General a couple more days of slack before they begin to worry at all.
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Steel Wraith
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Posted - 2009.09.25 05:50:00 -
[213]
About the audit:
Actually, I believe it was Lord Newbold who was said to not have any trade skills. The audit indicated General Newbold (full API access) sent all the isk to Lord Newbold (limited API access granted). Lord Newbold would then do his thing and eventually send enough isk back to General Newbold to make the interest payments when required.
Occam's razor - the simplest explanation is "this is a scam."
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Koerner
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Posted - 2009.09.25 06:58:00 -
[214]
Yes, Steel, you are correct, and I apologize for the error. Lord Newbold has no trade skills. We cannot say for certain whether General has any trade skills. However, considering that the auditor reports that General does nothing other than make payments transfered to him, we can still conclude that General does no trading. This is actually more damning than my intial conclusion. General serves no function, which still suggests that it is a disposable "shell." Additionally, now it stands to reason that Lord lacks any basic trading abilities.... begging the question, what is his function?
Mikael - The question here isn't, "what is within the realm of possibility," but rather, "what is objectionably resonable?" Compare this bond to past bonds. Whereas, in other legitimate bonds, the character that fronts the bond is not a "throw away" character, meaning a character that has a skill set and a large time investment which the player intends to keep. Is it reasonable that this bond would function through a character (General), whose sole purpose is to post on this board, accept donations, and transfer that money to a seperate character (Lord)? Is it resonable, that the character which functions as the heart of the operation (Lord), would have no trade skills? Is it reasonable that a legitimate bond would require this many levels of cover? If you were going to execute a trade operation, would you go out of your way to set up a character whose sole purpose in the bond is to cover up who you are and what you are doing?
There is simply no logical reason to set up a "cover" for a bond operation. However, it is absolutely necessary to have a "cover" for a scam. Because once the scam is complete, the character that executed the scam is essentially useless! If it was a widely successful scam, that character now has tons of trigger-happy enemies, a bounty, and can never be used in MD again. So... if you were going to pull off a scam, would you use your precious, highly trained, skill-invested character? Or would you select a worthless alt?
Lastly, Mikael, consider the sudden "massive hardware failure" revelation. General reports that he has sudden massive hardware failure, locking him out of eve entirely for an indefinite amount of time. Why then, when players noticed he had disappeared, was he seen logging on and off several times in one day. "Massive hardware failure" would not allow him to log on and off at all. Furthermore, it is only after others begin to post about the noticed absence that General appears in MD to report the massive hardware failure.
You may ask, "if this is in fact a scam, why report the massive hardware failure at all? Why not just disappear without a word?" Being as I havent encountered alot of these controversial types of scams before in MD (I'm relatively new), I can only guess at this. My guess is, he never intended for Lord Newbold to get out'ed. Remember, Lord only appeared on scene when the auditor read the transaction journals and saw that all the money was going to Lord. Since General never initially revealed Lord, my guess is that he never intended for Lord to get sucked into it. Now he has to scuttle both General and Lord, which he can do together in one swoop with "massive hardware failure." By the way, logging on and off a whole bunch one day before suddenly disappearing is consistent with someone cleaning out their assets and transfering everything over to a new account.
Mikael, as before, I cannot completely prove right now that this is a scam. That kind of evidence cannot possibly be aquired. However, what I can point to are alot of things General/Lord said and did that don't make sense. One red flag is not a show-stopper, and can be explained. A whole bunch of red flags, however, are about the best evidence anyone can gather within the limited means of an eve internet forum.
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Mikael Genexi
Gallente
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2009.09.25 07:39:00 -
[215]
The operation required moving minerals from 0.0 space to high space. Using a character that would be traceable would likely result in a ganking of a Jump Freighter and a massive loss.
So there was a reason for secrecy and it was reasonable within the context of the game.
Frankly I'm surprised that anyone posts their ideas within the forums. Look at Brock and his Cap BPO project. I've certainly seen a lot more people copying that venture over the last couple of months in the Sell Forums to the point where he may be shutting it down.
Again, speculate all you wish but until enough time has passed to show that the General is not returning you are just making a guess.
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Tekota
legion industries ltd
Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2009.09.25 09:00:00 -
[216]
Can't seem to stay away from this thread...
Okies, I don't think General Newbold is a "throwaway" char as such - note that this doesn't necessarily mean I don't think he won't lose a minute's sleep by tarnishing it's rep. As far as I can tell General Newbold is the player's first main on their first account.
Secondly, "Lord Newbold" was always blatantly obvious and I don't think he tried to hide him as such - I mean, you only have to check The General's corp and the CEO of the alliance he's in and it becomes pretty damn clear.
Third, Teh General has or has at some time had, a lot of accounts. My count was four accounts at one point, I'll dig the threads out if anyone really needs (they may have been linked to earlier now I think of it). This does pee all over the "my only alts are" claim by GN earlier.
Fourth, contrary to my initial belief I don't believe that a substantial proportion of the posted investors were alts of GN. It was in investigating this hypothesis that I stumbled across the General Salvage link, but I could find little evidence that strongly suggested any of the posted investors were GN alts. That's not to say that some aren't but I can be fairly certain in saying that a good chunk definitely aren't and the rest don't have any compelling evidence either way.
Fifth, I'm holding off beating my little "I told you so" drum for now. Mainly because I've realised that so many of the investors are real and are doubtless feeling a little worried now. I'll give it another week; I've always been a highly vocal critic of this offering and I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole but we're still in a window of time where it's possible that he is just telling the truth and this is one of those real life "stuff happens" situations which could be resolved.
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Koerner
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Posted - 2009.09.25 11:22:00 -
[217]
Interesting stuff, Tekota. I don't want to seem like I place any great value on my own opinion here. These forums are nothing more than an interesting distraction to break up the monotony of a slow work day.
Right or wrong, investors and commentors need not be ashamed. Everything here is just an educated guess. And whose to say how anyone should spend their isk. I funnel my trade profits into my corp for others to shoot things and get blown up. I'm sure many out there would balk at this as a waste. But it's how I enjoy playing this game, so I will continue to do so with a smile.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.25 15:38:00 -
[218]
Quote:
Frankly I'm surprised that anyone posts their ideas within the forums. Look at Brock and his Cap BPO project. I've certainly seen a lot more people copying that venture over the last couple of months in the Sell Forums to the point where he may be shutting it down.
Brock's problems don't come off because he shared an obvious plan, but because there's a vertical drop in capitals made, which will probably continue till the next expansion Sov mechanics are made completely clear.
-
Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Dzil
Caldari
Sausage Banking
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Posted - 2009.09.25 16:01:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
Frankly I'm surprised that anyone posts their ideas within the forums. Look at Brock and his Cap BPO project. I've certainly seen a lot more people copying that venture over the last couple of months in the Sell Forums to the point where he may be shutting it down.
Brock's problems don't come off because he shared an obvious plan, but because there's a vertical drop in capitals made, which will probably continue till the next expansion Sov mechanics are made completely clear.
This. Researching and selling Capital BPOs is not exactly some top secret business plan; that's why it's ideal for an IPO. He can be completely transparent with his business without jeopardizing its success.
Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m |
Lucien Cade
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Posted - 2009.09.26 21:54:00 -
[220]
As "Teh Generals" biggest investor i felt it time to give my opinion. I am not one of his alts, I am in fact a main. That in the way I came back to eve with friends from another game, and decided to start again with them, rather than be 30m SP in front and cruising about in carriers and hacs while they mined veldspar in a noob ship. My older character has provided the isk, said character had a few bill going spare when I quit eve a couple of years ago. I used this isk to invest, keeping some back in case i got burned.
What really really annoys me at this time is not the fact that 4 Billion isk just went up the swanney, but the way in which he signed off. I'm willing to believe that he did have system problems. I'm also willing to accept work comes first and he needs to plough some cash into getting it all fixed for work before he sorts out eve. Stuff happens and EvE is a game, and not real life. I went into this with my eye's open and full knowledge i could be about to get royally stitched up, so I will not be crying.
What does annoy me is the manner in which he signed off. And if your reading this General, you should have at least appologised. And made some effort to promise your investors their cash back as soon as you are able to. The whole "Eve is not important to me at the moment" line should just as well have been, so long suckers im taking your money go get bent. The people who invested in you deserve at least a thanks and some half hearted promises or you just owning up to being a scam artist.
Life goes on. I hope for all the investors this is just some pc problems that will get sorted out. I'm beginning to doubt it as the time he went "missing" is the precise time he was to pay me back the 4 Billion. Funny that is'nt it.
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Jin Nib
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Posted - 2009.09.27 03:03:00 -
[221]
If he cared about his investors he could've arranged a way to get their money back to them. Unless of course he hasn't got enough of it anymore. Even if this isn't a scam (it likely is) it is a careless way to treat ones investors. Even if he comes back and does manage to liquidate (hes not going to be able to make the interest anymore) and pay people back, his reputation has tanked. Good thing he's used a throw-away alt and played API games then...
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Einear Lightfingers
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Posted - 2009.09.29 17:05:00 -
[222]
For all who think this is a scam and the PC issue is a front please read the posted URL. Hope someone can help with this mother of a PC virus.
Massive pc issue, where do i start!
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Cista2
Jita Direct Sale
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Posted - 2009.09.29 21:52:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Einear Lightfingers
For all who think this is a scam and the PC issue is a front please read the posted URL. Hope someone can help with this mother of a PC virus.
Ok, so Einear, who I expected from reading this thread had no prior friendship with The G, you really really hope someone can help.... how did you find that post btw?
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Jin Nib
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Posted - 2009.09.29 23:22:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Cista2
Originally by: Einear Lightfingers
For all who think this is a scam and the PC issue is a front please read the posted URL. Hope someone can help with this mother of a PC virus.
Ok, so Einear, who I expected from reading this thread had no prior friendship with The G, you really really hope someone can help.... how did you find that post btw?
He's invested enough that he spent a lot of time searching through help forums on the Internet? And he really really wants it to not be a scam?
Theres no way Newbold might know him or vise versa, after all Newbold didn't even bother posting a link himself for his investors. Who might be concerned enough about their iskies to get him some help.
This is the thread that keeps on giving. Personally I'm waiting for him to come back to see what happens next. This is a killer cliffhanger.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Leon Dalmasca
Gallente
Dot.Inc
Phobos Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.29 23:43:00 -
[225]
So is this still open for new investors?
DO NOT click! |
Koerner
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Posted - 2009.09.30 09:05:00 -
[226]
What? No way! Now I think Lightfingers is IN on this. This is just waaaaaay too convenient. It has to be staged.
Lightfingers loses money in an eve scam, so he spends HOURS AND HOURS of time pouring over tech support threads (how many thousands of these are there?) and just happens to stumble onto a thread by "knewbold"? Come on, what are the odds?
Also, I return to my original problem with the "computer problems" excuse. Eve is an MMO! Computer problems don't preclude the option for returning the money. It's so easy to find a friend, install eve on his computer, and log in for all of 10 minutes. Or is "the General" the only computer geek in the world who doesnt have either a 2nd computer or friend with a computer? Most laptops can run eve nowadays. Anybody who plays Eve as seriously as General does (serious enough to organize a "bond") would have plans to return to the game, and would care about enough about his reputation to find another way to log on and end this "bond."
This is just that final bit of deception to entertain the deceiver.
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Steel Wraith
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Posted - 2009.09.30 14:17:00 -
[227]
Edited by: Steel Wraith on 30/09/2009 14:18:21
Originally by: Leon Dalmasca
So is this still open for new investors?
Lol? I assume this is a joke but, for the sake of argument, you might have some luck buying up some of GN's debt from one of the investors, if you get a deal you think is worth it.
Of course your isk probably is safest under the seat of your pops <pilot-seat>pit, like you say in the other thread.
Edit: Silly filter.
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Einear Lightfingers
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Posted - 2009.09.30 15:45:00 -
[228]
Edited by: Einear Lightfingers on 30/09/2009 15:45:04
WOW that is amusing Koerner. Fact is that I joined the General's alliance and a link was provided through a close friend of his in alliance CEO mail. Koerner when you grow up and get a real life job you may understand that there are things that come before EVE. At 14 or 15 you can apparently pick a sure loser and have enough insight to see through an alt (not), you should skip high school and college and work for the NY Stock Exchange.
At the rate you are calling individuals alts and scammers you will ascend to MD Elite in no time. Good Luck and f#@k off!
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Jin Nib
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Posted - 2009.09.30 17:32:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Einear Lightfingers
Edited by: Einear Lightfingers on 30/09/2009 15:45:04
WOW that is amusing Koerner. Fact is that I joined the General's alliance and a link was provided through a close friend of his in alliance CEO mail. Koerner when you grow up and get a real life job you may understand that there are things that come before EVE. At 14 or 15 you can apparently pick a sure loser and have enough insight to see through an alt (not), you should skip high school and college and work for the NY Stock Exchange.
At the rate you are calling individuals alts and scammers you will ascend to MD Elite in no time. Good Luck and f#@k off!
U mad?
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Mikael Genexi
Gallente
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2009.09.30 17:59:00 -
[230]
So let's see, RL evidence is produced and all the haters claim it is just further proof of the scam?
Pathetic really.
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flakeys
Vanguard Frontiers
Slightly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.09.30 18:01:00 -
[231]
Originally by: Einear Lightfingers
At the rate you are calling individuals alts and scammers you will ascend to MD Elite in no time. Good Luck and f#@k off!
Regardless if the general does or does not scam in the end , this line here is SO SPOT ON i am allmost ****ing my pants. 
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Jin Nib
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Posted - 2009.09.30 18:19:00 -
[232]
Edited by: Jin Nib on 30/09/2009 18:20:22
Originally by: Mikael Genexi
So let's see, RL evidence is produced and all the haters claim it is just further proof of the scam?
Pathetic really.
Not really.
Pointing out the rational shortfalls of a public offering does not make one a "hater." If you don't want criticism of your offering don't make it pubic, and if you do, make sure it's done right.
I don't see why you're so upset that people are discussing it. The investors who were going to invest have already invested and the rest is just curiosity for how it turns out. In fact even if the investors did get turned off by Koerners supposition they couldn't do anything about it anyways. So again, why are you worried?
The fact is, that even if it isn't a scam this is no way to treat investors. It isn't hard to get the money back to people. Indeed he is part of an alliance which could probably do it for him should he simply send them a list. Then he could pay back the alliance. That's simply one way among many that he could've chosen to repay investors.
The careless indifference to investors and their money is what brings the flack to this thread. A person who doesn't care about money left in his care should hardly expect to be cared for in return. And such a person should certainly should not be running public investments.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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SetrakDark
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Posted - 2009.09.30 18:59:00 -
[233]
All that's left to do in this thread is for the perpetrator(s) of the scam to do some "damage control" posts to ensure that the final verdict remains open-ended so they can run their next scam in an acceptable climate...oh wait!
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Einear Lightfingers
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Posted - 2009.09.30 23:45:00 -
[234]
Jin Nib your posts on page 8 of this thread have been exact and spot on. I do wish the General to give updates and to lead us to believe that the issue is going to be resolved. The alliance that he and I are in does not support his investment opportunity, they actually want to get in to the investment without investing the required amount. They are also wardec'd at this very moment and until recently had very little or no success against the other corp. They have lost more than the initial ransom in assets and still have zero plans to get out of the dec and hope it runs its course. So the alliance refunding investors is not really an option. I've probably said more than I should, but felt that your posts deserved an appropriate response. Thank you for not flaming, but simply stating observations from an external view.
The war continue...
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2009.10.01 02:02:00 -
[235]
All the "your wrong" and "I'm right" posts are irrelevent.
The money is lost, so call it RL drama, SCAM, failure whatever,....
ISK is lost and no one will trust the guy again.
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Katiana Swan
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Posted - 2009.10.01 03:34:00 -
[236]
It's pretty obvious his HDD is messed up. Why not just buy another one? These days you can pick up a 250gb hard drive for next to nothing.
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Mikael Genexi
Gallente
Product Number 3
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Posted - 2009.10.01 05:39:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Katiana Swan
It's pretty obvious his HDD is messed up. Why not just buy another one? These days you can pick up a 250gb hard drive for next to nothing.
He said it was his work computer which means his work was on the HD. Not sure what you do for a living but if my work computer was borked, just buying a new HDD would not fix the problem. And worrying about EVE would be one of the last things I would be doing.
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Koerner
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Posted - 2009.10.01 08:55:00 -
[238]
Hey, Lightfingers, you're right, and I'm genuinely sorry for making that quip about you being involved. It was completely wrong for me to imply that you were somehow a scammer. I said that quickly off the cuff, failing to think before typing.
Now, real or fake, I dont have a high opinion of the General at all. I wouldn't trust him for a second. I dont care if he is having actual computer problems... "real life" gets thrown around out here like it's the ultimate trump card. It's not. I dont care if you guys are just a bunch of people playing an internet game, I am not going to screw you, regardless. If I had borrowed a ton of isk, and was having sudden computer problems, I would find a couple hours over a two week period to install eve on a friend's computer and make it good as much as possible... even if I never played eve again. It's just not right to let other people get screwed and do nothign about it.
As for my inovlvement in this thread... I genuinely despise scammers. I love competition, pirates, war decs, and low sec, but I hate cheaters and scam artists. Just today in fact, some jack@$$ tried to trick me into accepting a contract to sell a Dread Guristas Tower I had on auction. Of course, the contract was rigged and I would have both given him the tower and 1.3 billion. In my momentary sleep-deprived state I actually almost fell for it. But it was a waste of my time.
Earn isk like everybody else in this game. Build stuff, trade stuff, shoot stuff, or piarate stuff. But these "risk-free" confidance and contract scams really **** me off.
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DrefsabZN
Caldari
Butterfly Effect Corp.
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Posted - 2009.10.01 11:31:00 -
[239]
im just glad I didnt invest, regardless of if it was a scam or not people who invested are not getting the isk they were promissed and there's a question as to if they ever will now.
I appreciate that if may be having computer problem's but does he not have friends who can let him use a computer for a few mins to just post on this forum. He clearly has access to another computer with a net connection (if that tech forum post is indeed him).
If this is a real issue then hes not handled his obligation to his investers well by at least updating them on his status. A computer playing up is hardly the end of the world after all (its not like hes in hospital or something serious not that I would wish that upon anyone).
Ether way I only see you as having one thing to do, accept that you have been burned and move on. If he does come back then great you may see some isk back and its a bonus. If not then at least you have learnt a leason in being careful about those you invest in.
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Mithrass
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Posted - 2009.10.15 08:44:00 -
[240]
somehow, I think if his computer had problems and he needed it for work, he would have had it fixed a long time ago.
so I wouldnt be expecting him to be explaining or repaying anytime soon...
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