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Noisrevbus Caldari Breams Gone Wild	Posted - 2009.08.26 02:00:00 - [1] Edited by: Noisrevbus on 26/08/2009 02:03:26 This started out as a bit of an internal joke, but the more i've thought about it the more i've kind of come to like it. Deimos: -1 lowslot / +1 midslot What would it mean in essence? As it stands right now (aside from any issues with blasters etc) the ship is far too one-dimensional. It doesn't have the mids to consider even a basic shield buffer for fast roaming and it has issues with it's weapons when combined with plates. When it armor tanks it's not really too stressed for slots. Even if extra slots within it's stronger tier is always nice (playing to it's strengths) it does make the ship very narrow-abled. For the Deimos, to a degree where it rarely see the light of day (or depth of space) because it doesn't fit in well into most conventional gangs. I think the change could open up options while still maintain it's viability in what it already can do. For an armor tanked setup, the change would allow you to fit MWD + capmod + point + web. While you still retain 5 lowslots for a decent armor buffer or possibly an active tank. That extra mid slot can be capitalized on in many different ways, while the things you can do already don't seem to take that big of a hit in an initial, rough review. The capmod or extra utility mid square far better against what you lose on a plated or active setup. Making it a reasonable sacrifice in comparison to what you gain in the larger picture. With five lows you can still armor tank well enough. It would also open up the option to at least start considering looking at a slight shield buffered setup. That wouldn't be an optimal way of setting the ship up by any stretch; but it would touch up quite nicely toward some sort of basic viability; being able to field MWD + point + a two slot tank. The impact on any Sniper or Sniping-hybrid setups would also be quite minimal. So at the loss of one slot in some sort of streamlined setup that can fit both tank and damage with ease (but still don't really get used much) you gain flexibility within most setups already used while you get the ability to consider some off choices as well. I do not belive this will solve any and all issues with the Deimos, it's just an attempt at rounding out the ship a little, and raise it's popularity. As always, i may run the risk to annoy some hardcore active-deimos fan who doesn't want to give up a damage mod for a cap booster or something. So, treading lightly... Good idea? Bad idea? Be openminded. Explain why!
Stil Harkonnen	Posted - 2009.08.26 02:04:00 - [2] i would probably support this just because it would be really hard to make the deimos any worse.
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2009.08.26 02:25:00 - [3] Originally by: Stil Harkonnen i would probably support this just because it would be really hard to make the deimos any worse. it could have a repair amount bonus Originally by: Akita T Seriously ? ...wow... I'm such a forum ho' !
Terianna Eri Amarr Scrutari	Posted - 2009.08.26 03:35:00 - [4] The Deimos isn't unpopular because it's not good at it's role, it's unpopular because it's role (of yarrr suicide blasterboat) is something not worth spending a 130 mil HAC on. __________________________________ Originally by: CCP Whisper Boo hoo. Cry some more.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2009.08.26 03:57:00 - [5] Originally by: Terianna Eri The Deimos isn't unpopular because it's not good at it's role, it's unpopular because it's role (of yarrr suicide blasterboat) is something not worth spending a 130 mil HAC on. Fly in a gang with logistic support, suddenly its a beast.
Manu Hermanus FaDoyToy	Posted - 2009.08.26 03:59:00 - [6] didn't ccp try to do something like that to the diemost and got shot down by the community?
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.08.26 03:59:00 - [7] Originally by: Terianna Eri The Deimos isn't unpopular because it's not good at it's role, it's unpopular because it's role (of yarrr suicide blasterboat) is something not worth spending a 130 mil HAC on. Pretty much. Sniper hacs are the new shiney. Quote: [03:39:05] Emperor Salazar > HOLY **** ITS ZEBA [03:39:20] Emperor Salazar > NEVER STOP POASTING Zeba is the BEST! ~Mitnal
Rayel Eitlek	Posted - 2009.08.26 04:22:00 - [8] Originally by: Omara Otawan Fly in a gang with logistic support, suddenly its a beast. Ding ding!
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2009.08.26 05:15:00 - [9] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Power Diagnostic System II Magnetometric Backup Array II Damage Control II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Small Energy Neutralizer II Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II Works as gang ship.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.08.26 05:18:00 - [10] Originally by: fuxinos Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Power Diagnostic System II Magnetometric Backup Array II Damage Control II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Small Energy Neutralizer II Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II Works as gang ship. OMG U HAVE NO POINT AND WEB HE WILL WARP AWAY!!!!!11111 Sorry, just thought I'd get that in there before the 'everyone in gang must have a web/point' crowd rolls in.. Quote: [03:39:05] Emperor Salazar > HOLY **** ITS ZEBA [03:39:20] Emperor Salazar > NEVER STOP POASTING Zeba is the BEST! ~Mitnal
Darth Felin	Posted - 2009.08.26 05:51:00 - [11] Edited by: Darth Felin on 26/08/2009 05:52:06 Originally by: Noisrevbus [ It is very bad idea, Deimos need those slots. -1 Low is one less magstab for blaster fit or one tracking enchanter for sniper. Deimos need 4 medslot so web for real but it should can from utility high slot that noone use. Originally by: Zeba Sorry, just thought I'd get that in there before the 'everyone in gang must have a web/point' crowd rolls in.. Sorry but Deimos is one of the few ships that have tackling suit or he just won't hit his target.
Grut Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.26 05:54:00 - [12] -1 from me. If anything the Deimos needs -1 high +1 mid or low... I mean what are you meant to do with that high? you can't even stick a rocket launcher in it for added prettyness. The main suckness about deimos is its lol levels of grid, no other HAC apart from the eagle requires an rcu to mount a full rack of big guns. Give it +100 ish grid and say +30 cpu and it'd be alot better. Compared to the Zealot its two slots down before you start .... the zealot has 4x gun bonus which work well at long or short range .... the deimos's bonus only work at short range and are abit meh with rails. Kinsy > deadman you there? Kinsy > are either of us in pods, becase we dont know... Mostly harmless [ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.08.26 05:58:00 - [13] Edited by: Zeba on 26/08/2009 05:58:35 Originally by: Darth Felin Sorry but Deimos is one of the few ships that have tackling suit or he just won't hit his target. If its in a gang and fitted with no tackle then the odds should be pretty good that there will be other ships to make sure its target is pointed and webbed. Arazu and Rapier or some other heavy tackle ship tagging along should suffice. Quote: [03:39:05] Emperor Salazar > HOLY **** ITS ZEBA [03:39:20] Emperor Salazar > NEVER STOP POASTING Zeba is the BEST! ~Mitnal
Grut Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.26 06:14:00 - [14] Originally by: Zeba Edited by: Zeba on 26/08/2009 05:58:35 Originally by: Darth Felin Sorry but Deimos is one of the few ships that have tackling suit or he just won't hit his target. If its in a gang and fitted with no tackle then the odds should be pretty good that there will be other ships to make sure its target is pointed and webbed. Arazu and Rapier or some other heavy tackle ship tagging along should suffice. I tend to find sucky though it is a railmos is >> then a blastermos for gangs. The reason? instant damage you don't spend 15 secs mwding upto something only for it to pop and have to spend another 15 secs mwding upto something else. Kinsy > deadman you there? Kinsy > are either of us in pods, becase we dont know... Mostly harmless [ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.26 08:10:00 - [15] Originally by: fuxinos Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Power Diagnostic System II Magnetometric Backup Array II Damage Control II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Small Energy Neutralizer II Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer II Works as gang ship. Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Damage Control II Tracking Enhancer II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Large Shield Extender II Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Core Defence Field Extender I I usely prefere this setup for gangs, a bit more range and speed is allways handy. Well you need the lows for damagemods, unlike the Ishtar that don¦t need damagemods for his DPS, that reduces your tank a lot. So you end up with a even more unfocused ship. I agree that the role is not actualy the best thing for a HAC(on current HAC prices), but also the Diemost has the disadvantage that it has to face tier 2 BCs in his role(for the simple reason they do the same role). If it would have a relistic chance to fight a BC on a EHP vs DPS level(what usely becomes the point if both ships are at blaster range) it would be a usefull ship. For this it would need more buffer(a bit more armor and double structure amount) and basicly more DPS. Ps. The diemost not only works good for gangs with enught RR to keep anything alive, it also works superb in gangs where you can jamm next to any hostile ship so you recive no DPS. Also note, other Hacs would work fare worse in this gangs, since they can¦t make use of the abilitys to envade damage by range/speed, so the diemost becommes the best. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.08.26 08:41:00 - [16] Originally by: Noisrevbus Edited by: Noisrevbus on 26/08/2009 02:03:26 This started out as a bit of an internal joke, but the more i've thought about it the more i've kind of come to like it. Deimos: -1 lowslot / +1 midslot What would it mean in essence? As it stands right now (aside from any issues with blasters etc) the ship is far too one-dimensional. It doesn't have the mids to consider even a basic shield buffer for fast roaming and it has issues with it's weapons when combined with plates. When it armor tanks it's not really too stressed for slots. Even if extra slots within it's stronger tier is always nice (playing to it's strengths) it does make the ship very narrow-abled. For the Deimos, to a degree where it rarely see the light of day (or depth of space) because it doesn't fit in well into most conventional gangs. I think the change could open up options while still maintain it's viability in what it already can do. For an armor tanked setup, the change would allow you to fit MWD + capmod + point + web. While you still retain 5 lowslots for a decent armor buffer or possibly an active tank. That extra mid slot can be capitalized on in many different ways, while the things you can do already don't seem to take that big of a hit in an initial, rough review. The capmod or extra utility mid square far better against what you lose on a plated or active setup. Making it a reasonable sacrifice in comparison to what you gain in the larger picture. With five lows you can still armor tank well enough. It would also open up the option to at least start considering looking at a slight shield buffered setup. That wouldn't be an optimal way of setting the ship up by any stretch; but it would touch up quite nicely toward some sort of basic viability; being able to field MWD + point + a two slot tank. The impact on any Sniper or Sniping-hybrid setups would also be quite minimal. So at the loss of one slot in some sort of streamlined setup that can fit both tank and damage with ease (but still don't really get used much) you gain flexibility within most setups already used while you get the ability to consider some off choices as well. I do not belive this will solve any and all issues with the Deimos, it's just an attempt at rounding out the ship a little, and raise it's popularity. As always, i may run the risk to annoy some hardcore active-deimos fan who doesn't want to give up a damage mod for a cap booster or something. So, treading lightly... Good idea? Bad idea? Be openminded. Explain why! I don't know if this is a troll or a reflection. About a year or so ago , CCP gave the Deimos -1 low +1 mid, and a rep bonus like the brutix/astarte gat. It lasted about a week of massive complaining from the audience, and the changes were reverted. _________________ - Rivqua - --- R.E.P.O. ---
Lewyrus Jugis Modo Utopia THE KLINGONS	Posted - 2009.08.26 09:23:00 - [17] Originally by: Rivqua About a year or so ago , CCP gave the Deimos -1 low +1 mid, and a rep bonus like the brutix/astarte gat. It lasted about a week of massive complaining from the audience, and the changes were reverted. Here it is. Slots: 6/4/5 (+1 med, -1 low) Capacitor capacity: 1625.0en (+250en) Bonuses: * 5% bonus to medium hybrid turret damage per Gallente Cruiser level (no change) * 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per Gallente Cruiser level (replaces the MWD capacitor penalty reduction) Apart from the last line, it does seem a good change.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.26 09:49:00 - [18] Edited by: The Djego on 26/08/2009 09:50:04 Originally by: Lewyrus Originally by: Rivqua About a year or so ago , CCP gave the Deimos -1 low +1 mid, and a rep bonus like the brutix/astarte gat. It lasted about a week of massive complaining from the audience, and the changes were reverted. Here it is. Slots: 6/4/5 (+1 med, -1 low) Capacitor capacity: 1625.0en (+250en) Bonuses: * 5% bonus to medium hybrid turret damage per Gallente Cruiser level (no change) * 7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per Gallente Cruiser level (replaces the MWD capacitor penalty reduction) Apart from the last line, it does seem a good change. It was shot down by the comunity for a reason. You would have 5 low slots. So you need at least 4 slots for tank to make it worth it, actualy even 5 to gain anything out of it. 2 medium reps and a medium cap booster take lots of grid(that you don¦t have to beginn with) and so you end up in a electron setup without damagemods realy quick. This setup tanks about as mutch as a Astarte with doing Thorax like DPS(or even worse, because of the lack of slots for MFS). It was worse in the only role it had(close range gank HAC), worse for sniping(no MWD bonus, TCs < TEs) and worse to the Ishtar, since It preaty mutch had the same DPS\Tank now with missing the great flexiblity of the Ishtar(actualy a bit more tank and even less DPS). ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice	Posted - 2009.08.26 10:20:00 - [19] Originally by: Zeba OMG U HAVE NO POINT AND WEB HE WILL WARP AWAY!!!!!11111 Sorry, just thought I'd get that in there before the 'everyone in gang must have a web/point' crowd rolls in.. Fit Tackle. How many other gang DPS ships can at least fit a 24km pt? I mean, if you want to fly in blobs all day where you could be in an Ibis or some lolshield Deimos, then all the power to you. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Ap0ll0n Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.08.26 10:59:00 - [20] Why not go for a 5/4/6?
Lexa Hellfury Incura	Posted - 2009.08.26 11:25:00 - [21] Hi Originally by: RedSplat The Forum moderation Software known as Mitnal became self aware. CCP had no choice but to shut it down.
Lewyrus Jugis Modo Utopia THE KLINGONS	Posted - 2009.08.26 11:36:00 - [22] Originally by: The Djego Stuff Yeah, OK, I stand corrected. Originally by: Ap0ll0n Why not go for a 5/4/6? I may sound like a broken record, but this seems good
Razor Blue	Posted - 2009.08.26 12:08:00 - [23] Edited by: Razor Blue on 26/08/2009 12:08:33 The problem Deimos has is that it deals too much damage. Dealing too much damage will always get it primaried first. But if Deimos was changed somehow, then id like to have something like this: Gallente cruiser: +5% damage +7.5% armor hp Heavy assault ships +5% damage +10% falloff Slots 5/3/7 There... Sturdy and hardhitting closerange blaster cruiser. As it should be. Just my 2 cents edit: typo
Morel Nova z3r0 Gravity	Posted - 2009.08.26 12:11:00 - [24] Edited by: Morel Nova on 26/08/2009 12:11:49 Originally by: Ap0ll0n Why not go for a 5/4/6? yeah, but its still going to be worse than the other HACs and a huge waste of money over a shield+nano gank brutix. the problem is that the other HACs can play the maneuverability card. The deimos hits approach, gets in optimal which means scram + web, then hopes the target dies before he does. since 75% of combat in eve is a blob trap thats a very expensive hobby. When you are 1km away, not moving the brutix buffer + more dps + insurance suddenly looks a lot nicer. maybe give it an additional falloff bonus as well as an extra mid (need dual web to gtfo reliably) and it could be flown like an incursus with null, kiting at edge of scram range? I'd at least try flying that solo. Put in space whales!
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.26 12:11:00 - [25] Originally by: Lexa Hellfury Hi Hehe, I remember this one. Originally by: Lewyrus Originally by: The Djego Stuff Yeah, OK, I stand corrected. Originally by: Ap0ll0n Why not go for a 5/4/6? I may sound like a broken record, but this seems good Well even if I use the high slot, a 5/4/6 Diemost would be better all around(was also sugested by next to anybody as they wanted to change the slots the first time). ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Sivajini	Posted - 2009.08.26 12:30:00 - [26] leave it a suicide ship. dont make it something we alread have.
adriaans Amarr Ankaa.	Posted - 2009.08.26 13:09:00 - [27] [Deimos, garmon adaption fit] Damage Control II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Armor Explosive Hardener II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Warp Scrambler II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M [empty high slot] Ancillary Current Router I Trimark Armor Pump I Hammerhead II x5 (empty high can be a small nos, if you use a 3% grid implant) unheated and unimplanted stats: 51k EHP, 660dps you're changes would make the only reasonable working deimos fit not work.... -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr! Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail. QFT!
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.26 13:12:00 - [28] Originally by: Morel Nova Edited by: Morel Nova on 26/08/2009 12:11:49 Originally by: Ap0ll0n Why not go for a 5/4/6? yeah, but its still going to be worse than the other HACs and a huge waste of money over a shield+nano gank brutix. the problem is that the other HACs can play the maneuverability card. The deimos hits approach, gets in optimal which means scram + web, then hopes the target dies before he does. since 75% of combat in eve is a blob trap thats a very expensive hobby. When you are 1km away, not moving the brutix buffer + more dps + insurance suddenly looks a lot nicer. maybe give it an additional falloff bonus as well as an extra mid (need dual web to gtfo reliably) and it could be flown like an incursus with null, kiting at edge of scram range? I'd at least try flying that solo. Well thats one of the basic drawbacks of blaster PVP, you won¦t get out easy and usely and the fight ends if one of both ships is dead. 5/4/6 would be beter since you could fit a cap booster, a 2. web, a sensor booster, AB+MWD or disruptor + scram etc, so it would not only improve people that want to tank her diemost. Also a lot more structure would be nice(like +100%) giving it more EHP(around 6k) to burn while you slug it out without actualy force it to active tanking(simlar to the Taranis). You could also switch the Hac Damage bonus to a ROF bonus what would give it a bit more gank. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
rodensteiner Amarr The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.08.26 13:31:00 - [29] Strange, somehow people manage to fly Zealots with 3 midslots. And it does not have 4 real gun bonuses, one is a cap use bonus which is rediculous. Most Amarr ships have those, and it still doesn't help. And the Zealot has no utility slot. And the Zealot has no drone bay. And the Zealot probably won't be outrunning much, either, as like most Amarr ships, it's rather slow. It's also very cap dependent. And yet, Zealots are extremely popular, simply because it gets pretty decent range.
No Maz	Posted - 2009.08.26 13:33:00 - [30] Maybe the correct question would be what fitting change to this ship would encourage more pilots to use it in the various pvp situations?
Jin Entres Malevolent Intervention	Posted - 2009.08.26 13:43:00 - [31] Just make Deimos unaffected by damage mod stacking penalty and let it be the glass cannon it needs to be. ----------------------
rodensteiner Amarr The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.08.26 13:43:00 - [32] Originally by: No Maz Maybe the correct question would be what fitting change to this ship would encourage more pilots to use it in the various pvp situations? Personally, I look at the Deimos bonuses, and I think I would fit rails to it, were I to fly one. Yes, in the description/backstory it's stated that it was designed as a close-range blasterboat, but I can't help to think that a 10% falloff per level would make for a decent mid-range sniper. Just my thoughts.
Darth Felin	Posted - 2009.08.26 14:13:00 - [33] Originally by: rodensteiner Originally by: No Maz Maybe the correct question would be what fitting change to this ship would encourage more pilots to use it in the various pvp situations? Personally, I look at the Deimos bonuses, and I think I would fit rails to it, were I to fly one. Yes, in the description/backstory it's stated that it was designed as a close-range blasterboat, but I can't help to think that a 10% falloff per level would make for a decent mid-range sniper. Just my thoughts. Actually it is the only viable fit for it imho. but Muninn and Zealot overshadow his capabilities.
Morel Nova z3r0 Gravity	Posted - 2009.08.26 15:37:00 - [34] Originally by: No Maz Maybe the correct question would be what fitting change to this ship would encourage more pilots to use it in the various pvp situations? hence my suggestion of +1 mid and falloff bonus making it a really good close-range knife fighter with at least some chance of getting out if things go wrong. With no escape route people just wont fly a ship this expensive very much Put in space whales!
AnKahn Caldari The Giant Squid Corp.	Posted - 2009.08.26 16:13:00 - [35] Contrasted to the Ishtar the Diemos seems to have a limited role. Noone is saying you can't have one of each and bring the one that fits the gang you are joining best. By all means increase it's rate of fire and watch the hilarity of face melting with logistics support. EvE is not a solo game people. It's great there are many talented pilots who can kill people solo, yay you. If I get ganked by a better player, I tip my hat. If you annoy me I bring friends. But why is EVERY SHIP judged by how it performs SOLO???
Davinel Lulinvega	Posted - 2009.08.26 16:24:00 - [36] Originally by: Omara Otawan Fly in a gang with logistic support, suddenly its a beast. This should have been /thread. Why are people still talking? Originally by: CCP Tuxford Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke! inb4 stealth edit
AnKahn Caldari The Giant Squid Corp.	Posted - 2009.08.26 16:40:00 - [37] BTW I reread the OP and I understand the "plates are too slow for a fast roaming gang" thing. But I know all people around here want is solopwnmobiles. Sorry for the rant that had nothing to do with the OP. My bad. If you can't wait for a 1600 plated cruiser to catch up with you well let's all just shield tank then. We get it. HAC = mobility. No other reason to fly one.
Grut Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.26 16:45:00 - [38] Originally by: rodensteiner Strange, somehow people manage to fly Zealots with 3 midslots. And it does not have 4 real gun bonuses, one is a cap use bonus which is rediculous. Most Amarr ships have those, and it still doesn't help. And the Zealot has no utility slot. And the Zealot has no drone bay. And the Zealot probably won't be outrunning much, either, as like most Amarr ships, it's rather slow. It's also very cap dependent. And yet, Zealots are extremely popular, simply because it gets pretty decent range. Not quite. It has an extra low slot instead of a utility slot ... which basically means it has one more slot then most other hacs as utilitys aren't worth stuff all. It has enough grid to fit either a pulse or beam setup and a good tank/gank unlike the deimos, all 4 of its bonsus work on either setup making it very flexiable. And ofc lasers are flavour of the month. Kinsy > deadman you there? Kinsy > are either of us in pods, becase we dont know... Mostly harmless [ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought
Morel Nova z3r0 Gravity	Posted - 2009.08.27 08:36:00 - [39] Originally by: AnKahn But why is EVERY SHIP judged by how it performs SOLO??? not every ship is, or you wouldnt be hearing all that praise for the zealot which is a pretty crappy solo ship. The reason the deimos is, is that its a blaster ship. blaster ships are sub-optimal in bigger gangs (>4 tbh) due to range issues. Put in space whales!
Cpt Branko Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.08.27 08:43:00 - [40] Originally by: AnKahn Contrasted to the Ishtar the Diemos seems to have a limited role. Noone is saying you can't have one of each and bring the one that fits the gang you are joining best. By all means increase it's rate of fire and watch the hilarity of face melting with logistics support. EvE is not a solo game people. It's great there are many talented pilots who can kill people solo, yay you. If I get ganked by a better player, I tip my hat. If you annoy me I bring friends. But why is EVERY SHIP judged by how it performs SOLO??? Well, yeah, but the problem is that a lot of things also practically outdamage the Diemost in gang vs gang fights, due to the time spent not doing any real DPS (range issues). So it's only useful role is going to be in a fairly small gang with logistics, and that is one fairly small niche role. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
4THELULZ	Posted - 2009.08.27 10:14:00 - [41] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: AnKahn Contrasted to the Ishtar the Diemos seems to have a limited role. Noone is saying you can't have one of each and bring the one that fits the gang you are joining best. By all means increase it's rate of fire and watch the hilarity of face melting with logistics support. EvE is not a solo game people. It's great there are many talented pilots who can kill people solo, yay you. If I get ganked by a better player, I tip my hat. If you annoy me I bring friends. But why is EVERY SHIP judged by how it performs SOLO??? Well, yeah, but the problem is that a lot of things also practically outdamage the Diemost in gang vs gang fights, due to the time spent not doing any real DPS (range issues). So it's only useful role is going to be in a fairly small gang with logistics, and that is one fairly small niche role. And really what doesn't do well with logistic support?
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2009.08.27 10:48:00 - [42] Originally by: Stil Harkonnen i would probably support this just because it would be really hard to make the deimos any worse. Almost pressed "REPORT" just because I want CCP to read this... The deimos is utter crap IMHO. I bought mine two years ago because of the cool propulsion stripes it made (yellow/blue/green). Now that these dont show anymore... well... Anyways, Ishtar is good, so who cares.
Lubomir Penev Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2009.08.27 10:54:00 - [43] Originally by: 4THELULZ And really what doesn't do well with logistic support? Ships that waste a self tank bonus. -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog
Djerin Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.08.27 11:25:00 - [44] Don't change the Deimos plz! It's just fine. Compared to Vaga, Munnin, Eagle, Cerb, Ishtar and Sacrilege there is no problem. If you want the wtfbbqpwn-HAC just skill Zealot. And then read my signature. Thank you. ---- Sarmaul's crosstrainorgtfo
Cpt Branko Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.08.27 12:54:00 - [45] Originally by: 4THELULZ Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: AnKahn Contrasted to the Ishtar the Diemos seems to have a limited role. Noone is saying you can't have one of each and bring the one that fits the gang you are joining best. By all means increase it's rate of fire and watch the hilarity of face melting with logistics support. EvE is not a solo game people. It's great there are many talented pilots who can kill people solo, yay you. If I get ganked by a better player, I tip my hat. If you annoy me I bring friends. But why is EVERY SHIP judged by how it performs SOLO??? Well, yeah, but the problem is that a lot of things also practically outdamage the Diemost in gang vs gang fights, due to the time spent not doing any real DPS (range issues). So it's only useful role is going to be in a fairly small gang with logistics, and that is one fairly small niche role. And really what doesn't do well with logistic support? Ibises? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Sivajini	Posted - 2009.08.27 12:56:00 - [46] Originally by: Jin Entres Just make Deimos unaffected by damage mod stacking penalty and let it be the glass cannon it needs to be. i like this
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2009.08.27 14:02:00 - [47] Originally by: Djerin Don't change the Deimos plz! It's just fine. Compared to Vaga, Munnin, Eagle, Cerb, Ishtar and Sacrilege there is no problem. If you want the wtfbbqpwn-HAC just skill Zealot. And then read my signature. Thank you. Ok i skilled zealot 3,5 years ago so now I'm reading your signature... oh wait... hmm?
Mr Ignitious R.E.C.O.N. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.08.27 15:18:00 - [48] Edited by: Mr Ignitious on 27/08/2009 15:20:40 Originally by: rodensteiner Strange, somehow people manage to fly Zealots with 3 midslots. And it does not have 4 real gun bonuses, one is a cap use bonus which is rediculous. Most Amarr ships have those, and it still doesn't help. And the Zealot has no utility slot. And the Zealot has no drone bay. And the Zealot probably won't be outrunning much, either, as like most Amarr ships, it's rather slow. It's also very cap dependent. And yet, Zealots are extremely popular, simply because it gets pretty decent range. It's faster than the deimos. And don't forget that one of the gallente "perks" has been a few more mids. It's getting really annoying that CCP has been giving amarr the same or more mids to amarr than gallente as of late, it doesn't make sense. 5/4/6 deimos would be good, 5/3/7 deimos would be a **ty wannabe zealot. The MWD cap bonus should be changed to tracking and given a little more cap and it would be pretty sweet. Originally by:** AnKahn But why is EVERY SHIP judged by how it performs SOLO??? Because not too long ago people liked to roam around by themselves or with 3 other people to find fights. Now that it's usually 15+ it takes a lot of the talent and exhilaration out of roaming. I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people. Originally by: CCP Zulupark WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
Raimo Gallente Wrath of Fenris Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.08.27 15:57:00 - [49] Don't take away a lowslot! Sacrifing a highslot for a mid would be ok though most awesome would be a straight- on mid addition + a bit of grid (at least, a bigger falloff bonus/ even more damage or w/e love wouldn't hurt either) ---
Kovorix	Posted - 2009.08.27 19:24:00 - [50] I may have seen this in another thread, but I like the idea of replacing the mwd cap bonus with a large AB speed bonus, pushing it to 900-1k m/s with an AB and good skills. That way it could actually operate in web/scram range, and pilot skill could be applied more in dictating range in the ship using the falloff bonus, especially considering there aren't that many webs fitted these days compared to scrams.
Max Hardcase Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2009.08.27 20:27:00 - [51] ^^ Great and spend more time in transit.........
Kovorix	Posted - 2009.08.27 21:02:00 - [52] Originally by: Max Hardcase ^^ Great and spend more time in transit......... not really, overheating would bring it right up to mwd speed.
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc.	Posted - 2009.08.28 11:55:00 - [53] Originally by: Kovorix Originally by: Max Hardcase ^^ Great and spend more time in transit......... not really, overheating would bring it right up to mwd speed. You can overheat MWDs to. In a gang you jump from target to target(kill it, MWD on and up to the next) it would not be any kind of improvement to lose 50% of your speed here(where you allready the Hac that needs the best mobility because your combat range is this small). Solo you allready have a hard time to not get kitted by faster ships, it is not realy a good idea to make it even harder to catch them or even easier for them to kill you. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Justin Cody Caldari Apocalypse Enterprises Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.08.28 14:07:00 - [54] Use null M people...its good stuff...you hit almost as hard as antimatter and you have a 25% tracking bonus and to falloff...seriously what do you want...a big red WIN button? Remind people that profit is the difference between revenue and expense. This makes you look smart. Scott Adams
Darth Felin	Posted - 2009.08.28 14:53:00 - [55] Originally by: Justin Cody Use null M people...its good stuff...you hit almost as hard as antimatter and you have a 25% tracking bonus and to falloff...seriously what do you want...a big red WIN button? Are you crazy? NULL M get you 25% PENALTY to tracking and about 20% penalty to damage dealt for a 25% more falloffand optima)( and blaster falloff and optimal are pretty crap btw)
Mr Reason	Posted - 2009.08.28 14:58:00 - [56] Originally by: Justin Cody Use null M people...its good stuff...you hit almost as hard as antimatter and you have a 25% tracking bonus and to falloff...seriously what do you want...a big red WIN button? Someone needs to reread the actual 'bonuses' and apply "CCP logic" (which is different from normal logic)
Ronin Reborn Wrath of Fenris Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.08.28 15:17:00 - [57] Boost Deimos! Replace the MWD cap bonus with a 20% per level to green engine trails! Deimos isn't irredemably bad, it's just an extremely one dimensional ship. It fits guns, that have almost no range, and do gobs of dps. Bringing these guns to bear takes to much cap to field an active tank so most simply buffer the diemos with 400, 800 or 1600 plates. This makes it a good primary, the ship easy easy to kill, does more than enough dps to warrant taking it off the field, and it pratically tackles itself. To me the Deimos is a gank ship, not a ganky ship. A 3 heatsink geddon is a ganky ship. A Deimos is a ship you warp in when a recon or inty has something tackled and your MO is to gank the crap out of it before his blues have time to respond. It does the most amount of dps you can get in a cruiser sized hull, and its relatively agile and fast for a HAC to boot. It's DPS support. I've a love hate relationship with the Deimos. Best HAC in the freaking game...right up until things start to shoot at you. To the OP, no. Deimos needs 6 lows, and while I would like a 4th mid the only slot I'd give up for it is the utility high.
jemos Gallente	Posted - 2009.08.28 18:21:00 - [58] Originally by: Artemis Rose Originally by: Zeba OMG U HAVE NO POINT AND WEB HE WILL WARP AWAY!!!!!11111 Sorry, just thought I'd get that in there before the 'everyone in gang must have a web/point' crowd rolls in.. Fit Tackle. How many other gang DPS ships can at least fit a 24km pt? I mean, if you want to fly in blobs all day where you could be in an Ibis or some lolshield Deimos, then all the power to you. I lolled Originally by: FireT If you have capitals..... well for the love of Raptor Pope, use them before they rust away.

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