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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
474

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Posted - 2012.06.01 13:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi Sisi fans,
I want to let you know about a change we are making to the market seeding for the summer. To enable the Alliance Tournament testing to run smoother, we are going to be expanding the seeding to all stations. Since we also need to seed some extra ships and ammo, we are going to have a test run of seeding EVERYTHING, with some exceptions. The following items will not be seeded (with reasons why)
- Supercapital ships. It was decided that with Masstest skillpoints, seeding supers would be too impactful to the combat system without any countermeasures. They will not be seeded as a result of this. - Certain "rare" ships. Due to the special nature of these ships it would not be proper to seed them for mass purchase. The list of ships can be found here http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Unique_Ships - Officer modules. Officer modules are very high power with very low skill requirement. They would become the de facto fitting and would make the next 6 weeks very boring.
Please note that this is temporary. It is both a trial (as many have asked for faction mods, etc, to be seeded) and a way to facilitate ATX testing without going crazy on our seeding scripts. This will disappear with the next mirror (following the alliance tournament) and be replaced with a new seeding script.
Changes will be made today. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
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Nevigrofnu Mrots
Goonswarm Federation
18
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Posted - 2012.06.01 14:12:00 -
[2] - Quote

thanks |

Makari Aeron
The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium
3
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Posted - 2012.06.01 14:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sounds great! I hope that after the ATX, you'll keep the Faction ships/mods, Deadspace mods seeded in SiSi. It was frustrating to want to test out a faction ship before I buy it in TQ but find that the ship wasn't seeded in my area. And I agree with you, Officer mods should probably not be seeded, at least for now. I wouldn't mind seeing them seeded afterwards though. Smoky the Jove Says: Only CCP can ruin EVE. |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
474

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Posted - 2012.06.01 14:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Makari Aeron wrote:Sounds great! I hope that after the ATX, you'll keep the Faction ships.mods, Deadspace mods seeded in SiSi. It was frustrating to want to test out a faction ship before I buy it in TQ but find that the ship wasn't seeded in my area. And I agree with you, Officer mods should probably not be seeded, at least for now. I wouldn't mind seeing them seeded afterwards though.
We will keep faction ships, but it is unlikely we will keep faction or deadspace mods. I will be monitoring the useage closely though to see how much of an effect it has, and as always feedback is encouraged! CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
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Makari Aeron
The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium
3
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Posted - 2012.06.01 14:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Makari Aeron wrote:Sounds great! I hope that after the ATX, you'll keep the Faction ships/mods, Deadspace mods seeded in SiSi. It was frustrating to want to test out a faction ship before I buy it in TQ but find that the ship wasn't seeded in my area. And I agree with you, Officer mods should probably not be seeded, at least for now. I wouldn't mind seeing them seeded afterwards though. We will keep faction ships, but it is unlikely we will keep faction or deadspace mods. I will be monitoring the useage closely though to see how much of an effect it has, and as always feedback is encouraged!
That is disappointing to hear, but understandable as it seems counter productive to have any idiot running around with Deadspace fit ships willynilly on the test server. However, my counter-argument is that with the increase in availability of Faction and Deadspace mods on SiSi, it allows me (and others) to actually test my higher end fits without the worry of being blown up by rats or other players while testing out my fits real-time. This is not to mention the money sink that Faction and Deadspace items are. It would be nice to have the opportunity to dry run the expensive modules for better efficiency on TQ. At the moment, I'm hesitant to buy Deadspace modules because I don't wish to spend the ISK to find out if the extra UMPH the Deadspace mods give my fit are actually worth it in the end.
As I have no reason to use officer mods, I won't try to argue that point. They are awesome modules, but to me they are moot points if you're hesitant to even include Faction mods on SiSi permanently.
At the very least, I'm satisfied with the Faction Ships. Smoky the Jove Says: Only CCP can ruin EVE. |

Solhild
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
710
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Posted - 2012.06.01 21:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
If I found I liked Officer/Deadspace/Faction mods in a particular fit on SISI I'd probably buy and use it on TQ.
Pro - probably more PLEX bought by people doing same Con - race to the top in elit fits
Slightly different to EFT warrioring as I'd have had the experience of using the fit.
I say seed everything  |

Raivi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
145
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Posted - 2012.06.01 21:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thank you very much for the faction ammo seeding.
Would it be possible to change the position on unique ship seeding? They have been seeded on sisi before with no negative effects that I saw. And their seeding would be very useful for many tournament teams. |

Cali Zindonas
Rudel Taktik
12
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Posted - 2012.06.02 01:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
just logged onto sisi, will this happen after the next DT for sisi? |

Mangala Solaris
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
83
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Posted - 2012.06.02 09:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cali Zindonas wrote:just logged onto sisi, will this happen after the next DT for sisi?
Wondering this myself. Mangala is not FC, yet another randomly updated EVE blog.
http://mangala.rvbganked.co.uk/ |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
474

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Posted - 2012.06.02 13:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Raivi wrote:Thank you very much for the faction ammo seeding.
Would it be possible to change the position on unique ship seeding? They have been seeded on sisi before with no negative effects that I saw. And their seeding would be very useful for many tournament teams.
Question, and I'm mostly coming at this from a position of ignorance so excuse me if the question is daft. If a team is going to use one of the unique ships in the tournament, wouldn't they already have it (or the blueprint) on TQ ergo have it on Sisi? CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
474

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Posted - 2012.06.02 13:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cali Zindonas wrote:just logged onto sisi, will this happen after the next DT for sisi?
Likely Monday. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
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Freyja Asynjur
Folkvangr
1
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Posted - 2012.06.02 13:42:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Hi Sisi fans, Since we also need to seed some extra ships and ammo, we are going to have a test run of seeding EVERYTHING
Fitting Restrictions wrote: 1.2. Faction, COSMOS, deadspace and officer modules are NOT allowed.
Am I the only one to see a contradiction ?
Anyway welcome to the summer circus on Sisi. |

McCafeDelight
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.06.02 16:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
Freyja Asynjur wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Hi Sisi fans, Since we also need to seed some extra ships and ammo, we are going to have a test run of seeding EVERYTHING
Fitting Restrictions wrote: 1.2. Faction, COSMOS, deadspace and officer modules are NOT allowed.
Am I the only one to see a contradiction ? Anyway welcome to the summer circus on Sisi.
Flagships, I believe, are the only ones allowed to be fitted with faction/deadspace mods |

Raivi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
145
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Posted - 2012.06.02 16:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Raivi wrote:Thank you very much for the faction ammo seeding.
Would it be possible to change the position on unique ship seeding? They have been seeded on sisi before with no negative effects that I saw. And their seeding would be very useful for many tournament teams. Question, and I'm mostly coming at this from a position of ignorance so excuse me if the question is daft. If a team is going to use one of the unique ships in the tournament, wouldn't they already have it (or the blueprint) on TQ ergo have it on Sisi?
But the other teams need to practice against them in order to know what they're up against. And also a lot of trading of unique ships has happened since the last mirror according to what I'm seeing. So there's teams missing their uniques on sisi. |

Eyriemhale
Unfortunate Soldiers Unprovoked Aggression
0
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Posted - 2012.06.03 05:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Does this mean there is going to be another mirror? cause i would like to be able to access Sisi, but missed the mirror last time due to me coming back to EVE!!! >: |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
474

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Posted - 2012.06.03 13:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
Freyja Asynjur wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Hi Sisi fans, Since we also need to seed some extra ships and ammo, we are going to have a test run of seeding EVERYTHING
Fitting Restrictions wrote: 1.2. Faction, COSMOS, deadspace and officer modules are NOT allowed.
Am I the only one to see a contradiction ? Anyway welcome to the summer circus on Sisi.
The seeding isn't only for the alliance tournament people. Many people use Sisi on a regular basis and this is a trial run to see how they use faction, deadspace and storyline mods. It's also much less maintenance to have a shorter restriction list.
CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
474

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Posted - 2012.06.03 13:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Raivi wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Raivi wrote:Thank you very much for the faction ammo seeding.
Would it be possible to change the position on unique ship seeding? They have been seeded on sisi before with no negative effects that I saw. And their seeding would be very useful for many tournament teams. Question, and I'm mostly coming at this from a position of ignorance so excuse me if the question is daft. If a team is going to use one of the unique ships in the tournament, wouldn't they already have it (or the blueprint) on TQ ergo have it on Sisi? But the other teams need to practice against them in order to know what they're up against. And also a lot of trading of unique ships has happened since the last mirror according to what I'm seeing. So there's teams missing their uniques on sisi.
In terms of practise, I would argue that those teams in possession of the ships would have earned the right to having a bit of a secret weapon. I will talk to the tournament coordinators and game design on Monday and see what they say, but I would think that it's unlikely to happen. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
474

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Posted - 2012.06.03 13:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
Eyriemhale wrote:Does this mean there is going to be another mirror? cause i would like to be able to access Sisi, but missed the mirror last time due to me coming back to EVE!!! >:
We're at the moment trying to do a partial mirror that would update account info and login details, but leave things like POS setups, ships, skillpoints etc. as they are. If this isn't possible it is likely we will need to fully remirror. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
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Raivi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
145
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Posted - 2012.06.03 16:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Raivi wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Raivi wrote:Thank you very much for the faction ammo seeding.
Would it be possible to change the position on unique ship seeding? They have been seeded on sisi before with no negative effects that I saw. And their seeding would be very useful for many tournament teams. Question, and I'm mostly coming at this from a position of ignorance so excuse me if the question is daft. If a team is going to use one of the unique ships in the tournament, wouldn't they already have it (or the blueprint) on TQ ergo have it on Sisi? But the other teams need to practice against them in order to know what they're up against. And also a lot of trading of unique ships has happened since the last mirror according to what I'm seeing. So there's teams missing their uniques on sisi. In terms of practise, I would argue that those teams in possession of the ships would have earned the right to having a bit of a secret weapon. I will talk to the tournament coordinators and game design on Monday and see what they say, but I would think that it's unlikely to happen.
From the perspective of the remaining team with by far the most unique ships in our possession, we don't mind other people being able to test with them and would prefer to have them seeded.
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Freyja Asynjur
Folkvangr
1
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Posted - 2012.06.03 17:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Freyja Asynjur wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Hi Sisi fans, Since we also need to seed some extra ships and ammo, we are going to have a test run of seeding EVERYTHING
Fitting Restrictions wrote: 1.2. Faction, COSMOS, deadspace and officer modules are NOT allowed.
Am I the only one to see a contradiction ? Anyway welcome to the summer circus on Sisi. The seeding isn't only for the alliance tournament people. Many people use Sisi on a regular basis and this is a trial run to see how they use faction, deadspace and storyline mods. It's also much less maintenance to have a shorter restriction list.
Well, I'm a regular user, and how they are used is quite simple : they find their way on every little fitting slot of every little ship. The only thing it does is removing more ships than usual from the show, as not every ship can compete in EVE "i have the bigger faction tank" online.
I guess it's not really important, but it just kills the fun for me  |

Raivi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
145
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Posted - 2012.06.04 03:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Raivi wrote:CCP Goliath wrote:Raivi wrote:Thank you very much for the faction ammo seeding.
Would it be possible to change the position on unique ship seeding? They have been seeded on sisi before with no negative effects that I saw. And their seeding would be very useful for many tournament teams. Question, and I'm mostly coming at this from a position of ignorance so excuse me if the question is daft. If a team is going to use one of the unique ships in the tournament, wouldn't they already have it (or the blueprint) on TQ ergo have it on Sisi? But the other teams need to practice against them in order to know what they're up against. And also a lot of trading of unique ships has happened since the last mirror according to what I'm seeing. So there's teams missing their uniques on sisi. In terms of practise, I would argue that those teams in possession of the ships would have earned the right to having a bit of a secret weapon. I will talk to the tournament coordinators and game design on Monday and see what they say, but I would think that it's unlikely to happen.
Also I'd argue that the best way to encourage teams to incorporate unique ships into their teams is to make testing with unique ships as similar to testing without unique ships as possible. We all want to see expensive explosions on air and seeding the ships will help bring that about.
BTW unique ships were seeded on sisi in the runnup to each of the last two tournaments. |

Amsterdam Conversations
Cheesecake Starshine
99
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Posted - 2012.06.04 04:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
My opinion about seeding them afterwards:
Don't.
For AT they really are fine. Teams that have practiced a lot will also generate much better setups, show of skills and make for overall better fights. Throwing random ships at each other isn't really that entertaining.
Afterwards, no. Making people able to "test" (in the not bugtesting way) for a game that, unlike all other games out there, has serious consequences is simply questioning the point of the game itself.
That is saying I don't mind people trying random stuff or just randomly shooting each other on Sisi, but it shouldn't become the risk-free private server for everything. |

Missile War
Vita Aequitas Veritas The Paganism Alliance
35
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Posted - 2012.06.04 09:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Amsterdam Conversations wrote:That is saying I don't mind people trying random stuff or just randomly shooting each other on Sisi, but it shouldn't become the risk-free private server for everything.
this is what i've been trying to say the whole time when it was suggested, ofcourse i LOVE using the "new" modules(and the vangel) but if you look at fits, i've only seen a few T2 fits since the seeds, and those people didn't notice faction stuff was seeded. and the server population has increased ALOT(which i don't mind tho, more targets \o/)
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CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
485

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Posted - 2012.06.04 10:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
I'm seeing the opinion that I thought I would, and can't say I'm surprised that most players don't want these items seeded. I assume you guys have no issue with faction ammo and ships? CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
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Makari Aeron
The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium
3
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Posted - 2012.06.04 12:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:I'm seeing the opinion that I thought I would, and can't say I'm surprised that most players don't want these items seeded. I assume you guys have no issue with faction ammo and ships?
I'd prefer this as the minimum.
Here's another idea, in 0.0 where the pirates are faction X, you seed the faction item drops on the market. Since these items are somewhat readily available in the real server as long as you rat enough, why not make them available as seeded items on the test server? Pew Pew Pew! |

Daneel Trevize
The Scope Gallente Federation
137
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Posted - 2012.06.04 22:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Raivi wrote:Thank you very much for the faction ammo seeding.
Would it be possible to change the position on unique ship seeding? They have been seeded on sisi before with no negative effects that I saw. And their seeding would be very useful for many tournament teams. Question, and I'm mostly coming at this from a position of ignorance so excuse me if the question is daft. If a team is going to use one of the unique ships in the tournament, wouldn't they already have it (or the blueprint) on TQ ergo have it on Sisi? Only until they run out of them via testing. Seeding allows far more and complete testing.CCP Goliath wrote:I'm seeing the opinion that I thought I would, and can't say I'm surprised that most players don't want these items seeded. I assume you guys have no issue with faction ammo and ships? Faction ammo and cap boosters is a no-brainer for seeding on Sisi, they are almost exclusively used on TQ for PvP.
Makari Aeron wrote:Here's another idea, in 0.0 where the pirates are faction X, faction X items are seeded in the market. Since these items are somewhat readily available in the real server (as long as you rat enough), why not make them available as seeded items on the test server? Seeding faction items in their specific faction's space is just making life needlessly difficult on Sisi, this isn't a game server but for testing, we don't need extra logistics work in a world where everyone can buy a 100isk cap ship and cyno about with 0 risk.
Amsterdam Conversations wrote:That is saying I don't mind people trying random stuff or just randomly shooting each other on Sisi, but it shouldn't become the risk-free private server for everything. If you think Sisi competes with TQ in any way except for directly testing PvP mechanics, you are sorely mistaken. 100isk items on Sisi is no threat to nullsec alliances, small gang roaming fleet experience, or true solo fight selection. It is because TQ is a single-shard high-risk server that it is of value, that's a huge part of the game that no other server could ever be, by definition.
I say seed the faction and deadspace modules, for many there's almost no comparable modules, especially pith/gist shield boosters, armour reppers and ABs (for fitting and cap requirements). 'Officer' modules are actually often only with identical stats as said deadspace/complex/whatever their source ones. Except for capital modules/supers fits, but who cares about the 1%? |

Freyja Asynjur
Folkvangr
1
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Posted - 2012.06.05 00:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
There's no point, no value, no learning, no fun to test any faction module (and ship, btw), if everyone also use them. It just shifts the rules, balance and feeling of the game to a lesser, very small, portion of viable ships and tactics (look at the kills from the last few days on the sisi unofficial killboards, it's not hard to see that there's only a very few ships that dominate the full-faction-fitted world).
As far as I'm concerned, we should be removing stuff from the 100isk market, not adding any new stuff, to try to get some ship diversity back in the combat system.
(imho, *empire* faction ammo & navy cap charges sound ok, they are almost mandatory on TQ anyway) |

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
83
|
Posted - 2012.06.05 02:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:I'm seeing the opinion that I thought I would, and can't say I'm surprised that most players don't want these items seeded. I assume you guys have no issue with faction ammo and ships?
Correct. Faction ammo is the default in PvP (only throwaway T1 ships ever use T1 ammo) and faction ships usually cost about the same as the equivalent T2 ship. Including them brings SiSi testing closer to the real server, and makes any balance information obtained from SiSi a lot more relevant.
Seeding faction/officer modules, on the other hand, would immediately replace every non-weapon T2 module and make SiSi combat completely unlike what happens on the real server, to a point where you'd have to re-mirror and re-seed SiSi without all that stuff every time you want to test new balance changes and get remotely useful feedback.
That said, thank you for finally adding faction ammo to the test server, it's something I (and a lot of other people) have wanted to see for a long time. |

Makari Aeron
The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium
3
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Posted - 2012.06.05 12:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
Freyja Asynjur wrote:There's no point, no value, no learning, no fun to test any faction module (and ship, btw), if everyone also use them. It just shifts the rules, balance and feeling of the game to a lesser, very small, portion of viable ships and tactics (look at the kills from the last few days on the sisi unofficial killboards, it's not hard to see that there's only a very few ships that dominate the full-faction-fitted world).
As far as I'm concerned, we should be removing stuff from the 100isk market, not adding any new stuff, to try to get some ship diversity back in the combat system.
(imho, *empire* faction ammo & navy cap charges sound ok, they are almost mandatory on TQ anyway)
I beg to differ, this is the *test* server, and therefore players should be able to test nearly every aspect of the game. This includes the harder to find modules. IMHO, the test server is just for what it's name stands for. Testing bugs, fits, and new items/concepts put into the game; not to be a new universe for someone to conquer or to scratch your PvP itch. That said, I firmly believe that pretty much EVERY item and ship (sans Officer mods, super caps, and tournament/special ships) should be seeded on the server. How can we test that which we cannot readily acquire?
Will I settle for all the faction ships and faction ammo? Yes, yes I will. I just had hoped there would be at least faction mods on the test sever. Pew Pew Pew! |

Swidgen
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2012.06.05 21:24:00 -
[30] - Quote
Makari Aeron wrote:I beg to differ, this is the *test* server, and therefore players should be able to test nearly every aspect of the game. this+1
That's why they give out 2M skillpoints for participating in the mass tests on sisi. I have over 10 million extra SP on sisi. Why shouldn't I be able to faction fit some of the sweet setups I see on battleclinic for ships I am a year away from flying on TQ? By being able to quite literally "test" these things on sisi, it gives me a better idea of where to focus my training on the real server.
The real purpose of sisi is for CCP to have a way to test their changes (and fixes) to the game, and acquire feedback from testers. I'd argue the second-best purpose is for Alliance Tournament player practice. Beyond that, giving players a way to do stuff they can't do on TQ is a valid purpose for sisi. |
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