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Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.10.17 15:04:00 - [31] Edited by: Bad'Boy on 17/10/2004 15:15:51 I think its a good idea... B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Bad'Boy	Posted - 2004.10.17 15:04:00 - [32] Edited by: Bad'Boy on 17/10/2004 15:15:51 I think its a good idea... B.A.D.B.O.Y.: Biomechanical Android Designed for Battle and Online Yelling "Bad Boys,Bad Boys, what you gonna do, what you gonna do when WE come for yoU"
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.10.17 15:20:00 - [33] Originally by: Lallante The CA killsystem (CMS) already has many of those details, with full top 10 rankings by corp, player, etc. It gas also some rather extreme levels of functionality (including kill searches, date limitation,full client integration and a load of other stuff) If CCP want to buy rights to it, contact Jaabaa So does the BoB one :P (although an ELO ranking is an idea worth following up) Ditto, contact DimensionZ heh "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Maya Rkell	Posted - 2004.10.17 15:20:00 - [34] Originally by: Lallante The CA killsystem (CMS) already has many of those details, with full top 10 rankings by corp, player, etc. It gas also some rather extreme levels of functionality (including kill searches, date limitation,full client integration and a load of other stuff) If CCP want to buy rights to it, contact Jaabaa So does the BoB one :P (although an ELO ranking is an idea worth following up) Ditto, contact DimensionZ heh "As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade"
Eris Discordia	Posted - 2004.10.17 16:08:00 - [35] I think like Character Information it will lag the forums to hell. Otherwise it's a fun suggestion but I'm worried it will be hard to code while making sure it does not lag. I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage Mail [email protected] if you have any questions.
Eris Discordia	Posted - 2004.10.17 16:08:00 - [36] I think like Character Information it will lag the forums to hell. Otherwise it's a fun suggestion but I'm worried it will be hard to code while making sure it does not lag. I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage Mail [email protected] if you have any questions.
Kerosene	Posted - 2004.10.17 16:24:00 - [37] Originally by: Eris Discordia I think like Character Information it will lag the forums to hell. Otherwise it's a fun suggestion but I'm worried it will be hard to code while making sure it does not lag. Trust me, don't do it. Every mmorpg pretty much has rankings and it just turns the game into 'Who can get the highest score' rather than the 'Help your mates out even if you die doing so' which it is at the moment. Keep eve 1337 free please.
Kerosene	Posted - 2004.10.17 16:24:00 - [38] Originally by: Eris Discordia I think like Character Information it will lag the forums to hell. Otherwise it's a fun suggestion but I'm worried it will be hard to code while making sure it does not lag. Trust me, don't do it. Every mmorpg pretty much has rankings and it just turns the game into 'Who can get the highest score' rather than the 'Help your mates out even if you die doing so' which it is at the moment. Keep eve 1337 free please.
Arvalen Eno	Posted - 2004.10.17 16:31:00 - [39] More character stats... Game time spent docked in station Game time spent in safespots Game time spent actually flying Number of lines spoken in local "Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs."
Arvalen Eno	Posted - 2004.10.17 16:31:00 - [40] More character stats... Game time spent docked in station Game time spent in safespots Game time spent actually flying Number of lines spoken in local "Ignorance leads to fear, fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate... hate leads to nerfs."
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.10.17 16:51:00 - [41] no rankings please.. statistics are ok though.. like how much gametime someone spent mining, docked, on autopilot..etc. rankings just turn this game into a giant fps fragzone on who can get the highest rank, so rankings are bad mkay.. even if there was a top 10 sexiest male characters (of which i would be at the top of) i still think its bad _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2004.10.17 16:51:00 - [42] no rankings please.. statistics are ok though.. like how much gametime someone spent mining, docked, on autopilot..etc. rankings just turn this game into a giant fps fragzone on who can get the highest rank, so rankings are bad mkay.. even if there was a top 10 sexiest male characters (of which i would be at the top of) i still think its bad _____________________________________ Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning. "Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf
Faeris Deschamps	Posted - 2004.10.17 16:55:00 - [43] Originally by: S'Daria What is ELO based? Why, the Electric Light Orchestra of course! :) Originally by: "Mahrai Ziller" Oh, they never lie. They dissemble, evade, prevaricate, confound, confuse, distract, obscure, subtly misrepresent and wilfully misunderstand with what often appears to be a positively gleeful relish and are perfectly capable of contriving to give one an utterly unambiguous impression of their future course of action while in fact intending to do exactly the opposite, but they never lie. Perish the thought.
Faeris Deschamps	Posted - 2004.10.17 16:55:00 - [44] Originally by: S'Daria What is ELO based? Why, the Electric Light Orchestra of course! :) Originally by: "Mahrai Ziller" Oh, they never lie. They dissemble, evade, prevaricate, confound, confuse, distract, obscure, subtly misrepresent and wilfully misunderstand with what often appears to be a positively gleeful relish and are perfectly capable of contriving to give one an utterly unambiguous impression of their future course of action while in fact intending to do exactly the opposite, but they never lie. Perish the thought.
The Sloth	Posted - 2004.10.17 17:29:00 - [45] Originally by: S'Daria What is ELO based? Simplified Version: ELO based ratings systems work by the comparison of your rating to the ratings of your opponents - where a player with a higher rating would generally be expected to beat a player with a lower rating. If a player won more times than they were expected to win (based upon their rating) then their rating would be adjusted upward. However, if they won fewer times than were expected to, then their rating would be adjusted downward. As an example of an ELO based ratings system try Yahoo Games. More info can be found here. The Sloth.
The Sloth	Posted - 2004.10.17 17:29:00 - [46] Originally by: S'Daria What is ELO based? Simplified Version: ELO based ratings systems work by the comparison of your rating to the ratings of your opponents - where a player with a higher rating would generally be expected to beat a player with a lower rating. If a player won more times than they were expected to win (based upon their rating) then their rating would be adjusted upward. However, if they won fewer times than were expected to, then their rating would be adjusted downward. As an example of an ELO based ratings system try Yahoo Games. More info can be found here. The Sloth.
Jowen Datloran	Posted - 2004.10.17 18:19:00 - [47] Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 17/10/2004 18:23:19 I say no. We have enough boasting ego-centric fools around already. I see no reason to encourage this behaviour even more. ---------------- What's a rumor on page one is a fact on page two
Jowen Datloran	Posted - 2004.10.17 18:19:00 - [48] Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 17/10/2004 18:23:19 I say no. We have enough boasting ego-centric fools around already. I see no reason to encourage this behaviour even more. ---------------- What's a rumor on page one is a fact on page two
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.10.18 08:44:00 - [49] Originally by: Eris Discordia I think like Character Information it will lag the forums to hell. Otherwise it's a fun suggestion but I'm worried it will be hard to code while making sure it does not lag. Update it weekly...not continuously like the Character viewer. That's the problem with the character viewer. It should had only updated once per day...probably only during downtime.
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.10.18 08:44:00 - [50] Originally by: Eris Discordia I think like Character Information it will lag the forums to hell. Otherwise it's a fun suggestion but I'm worried it will be hard to code while making sure it does not lag. Update it weekly...not continuously like the Character viewer. That's the problem with the character viewer. It should had only updated once per day...probably only during downtime.
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.10.18 08:52:00 - [51] Top 10 alliances/corp POS'es destroyed The idea of these rankings is to infact add 'goals' to those willing to work hard. Will that mean people will work sepecifically to gain the top position in one of these rankings...well yes. If they are working hard then hopefully they are having fun since they are investing so much time/effort to attain a ranking. Will it encourage certain types of behavior...yes. Will some people be more offensive...probably. Will some people POD more just to POD...probably. If you want to make it an RP thing have CONCORD come out with a "Weekly Report of Activity in the Known Universe". This weekly report would include all the Top 10 lists we discussed here. Currently the only quantitive measurement of PvP ranking is the amount of someone's bounty. The higher the bounty the more "renowned" that person is (i.e. Tank CEO when he was the first pirate to have over a 25mil bounty). If these ranking give people "goals" that they want to work for then I think thats a good thing for this game. I would hope that the statistics would only be calculated either weekly or during downtime...not continuously so we don't have the same problem we have with the Character viewer.
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.10.18 08:52:00 - [52] Top 10 alliances/corp POS'es destroyed The idea of these rankings is to infact add 'goals' to those willing to work hard. Will that mean people will work sepecifically to gain the top position in one of these rankings...well yes. If they are working hard then hopefully they are having fun since they are investing so much time/effort to attain a ranking. Will it encourage certain types of behavior...yes. Will some people be more offensive...probably. Will some people POD more just to POD...probably. If you want to make it an RP thing have CONCORD come out with a "Weekly Report of Activity in the Known Universe". This weekly report would include all the Top 10 lists we discussed here. Currently the only quantitive measurement of PvP ranking is the amount of someone's bounty. The higher the bounty the more "renowned" that person is (i.e. Tank CEO when he was the first pirate to have over a 25mil bounty). If these ranking give people "goals" that they want to work for then I think thats a good thing for this game. I would hope that the statistics would only be calculated either weekly or during downtime...not continuously so we don't have the same problem we have with the Character viewer.
Toran Mehtar	Posted - 2004.10.18 09:36:00 - [53] I'm inclined to say no. If such statistics were implemented in this game, then they would very quickly take over as the prime objective for many people. There are plenty of online FPS league tables out there, I thought Eve was better than that. What I would prefer to see is these statistics being monitored covertly by CCP, and used to improve the level of news reporting and storyline interaction. We want to know that over 70 ships (when I last checked) were destroyed in a single system last night. We want to hear a report from Concord who was most involved. Why shouldn't we get reports on who the most 'succesful' pirates have been in the last week ? The statistics should enhance the game, not be the game.
Toran Mehtar	Posted - 2004.10.18 09:36:00 - [54] I'm inclined to say no. If such statistics were implemented in this game, then they would very quickly take over as the prime objective for many people. There are plenty of online FPS league tables out there, I thought Eve was better than that. What I would prefer to see is these statistics being monitored covertly by CCP, and used to improve the level of news reporting and storyline interaction. We want to know that over 70 ships (when I last checked) were destroyed in a single system last night. We want to hear a report from Concord who was most involved. Why shouldn't we get reports on who the most 'succesful' pirates have been in the last week ? The statistics should enhance the game, not be the game.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.10.18 10:39:00 - [55] Edited by: Andrue on 18/10/2004 11:07:09 Edited by: Andrue on 18/10/2004 11:04:14 Originally by: S'Daria Originally by: Eris Discordia I think like Character Information it will lag the forums to hell. Otherwise it's a fun suggestion but I'm worried it will be hard to code while making sure it does not lag. Update it weekly...not continuously like the Character viewer. That's the problem with the character viewer. It should had only updated once per day...probably only during downtime. Yes, excellent idea. How about publishing it on Monday mornings so we can all look at how we did over the last week? That might deter ganking because you can't work on your figures as you play. I would also suggest limiting the range of players to ten either side. A late thought:Don't include combat stats. With Shiva fighters get POS as goals and can win a war by bankrupting the opposition. Reserve the stats for the carebears. Another late thought:This can fit in with role playing. It's unlikely Concord would publish combat stats for fear of encouraging fighting. Plus most fights are in 0.0 and why should Concord know what happens down there (shame about Kill Mails but most people seem to like them)? But market sales, mining stats and other carebear related activities will be of interest. Concord (or the Empires at least) will want to encourage competition in those areas to stimulate the economy. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.10.18 10:39:00 - [56] Edited by: Andrue on 18/10/2004 11:07:09 Edited by: Andrue on 18/10/2004 11:04:14 Originally by: S'Daria Originally by: Eris Discordia I think like Character Information it will lag the forums to hell. Otherwise it's a fun suggestion but I'm worried it will be hard to code while making sure it does not lag. Update it weekly...not continuously like the Character viewer. That's the problem with the character viewer. It should had only updated once per day...probably only during downtime. Yes, excellent idea. How about publishing it on Monday mornings so we can all look at how we did over the last week? That might deter ganking because you can't work on your figures as you play. I would also suggest limiting the range of players to ten either side. A late thought:Don't include combat stats. With Shiva fighters get POS as goals and can win a war by bankrupting the opposition. Reserve the stats for the carebears. Another late thought:This can fit in with role playing. It's unlikely Concord would publish combat stats for fear of encouraging fighting. Plus most fights are in 0.0 and why should Concord know what happens down there (shame about Kill Mails but most people seem to like them)? But market sales, mining stats and other carebear related activities will be of interest. Concord (or the Empires at least) will want to encourage competition in those areas to stimulate the economy. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.10.18 10:59:00 - [57] Originally by: Toran Mehtar I'm inclined to say no. If such statistics were implemented in this game, then they would very quickly take over as the prime objective for many people. What do you mean 'take over as the prime objective'? What prime objective have you found so far? * Increasing the number of digits when you view your wallet? * Watching a group of pixels turn from black to orange to white and back to black? * Looking at yet another cloudy backdrop with white dots? * Staring at another bunch of rocks? Eve is supposed to be a game and games are supposed to be competitions (not always but Eve is PvP and so is obviously meant to be competitive). Right now there is no one to compete with. Well obviously you can choose to put yourself in the line of fire because you like watching explosions but there's really no point in it. No one suffers significantly (which is good) but neither do they lose strategically. Wars are lost because one side gets bored. Shiva at least introduces POS which is a reasonable goal if you can find enough people to help build and maintain them. We shall see whether enough people can stay together long enough to make them decent goals. It also introduces a charge for wars and that means you can break a corp financially to stop the war. Unfortunately like it or not a lot of people don't want to fight. POS will not help those people. You might think you can ignore those people but Eve would fail within weeks if all the 'carebears' left the game. Limit the stats to players immediately above/below you in the table but show everyone's position. Publish the stats once a week and they become a long term goal - that should deter the gankers from playing with Eve on one side and the 'score sheet' on the other. Originally by: Toran Mehtar There are plenty of online FPS league tables out there, I thought Eve was better than that. Whatever gave you that idea? Eve is a game, that's all. Worse, it's a product. CCP support it because it brings in money. They are not working to some higher purpose. As soon as Eve ceases to cover its cost CCP will pull the plug. In order to survive Eve has to change into whatever the market wants it to change into. Originally by: Toran Mehtar The statistics should enhance the game, not be the game. Agreed, but they can be a part of the game. If you don't want them don't read them. Maybe even have CCP make it an opt-in feature. Don't bother recording the stats for anyone unless they opt-in. That might even help reduce server load in gathering and displaying the stats. There are a lot of casual players out there (I'm one) who have been playing for six months and are now 'kicking water'. Those players aren't hard core enough to want to spend hours chasing their tails for the 'excitement' of some cute explosion graphics. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
Andrue	Posted - 2004.10.18 10:59:00 - [58] Originally by: Toran Mehtar I'm inclined to say no. If such statistics were implemented in this game, then they would very quickly take over as the prime objective for many people. What do you mean 'take over as the prime objective'? What prime objective have you found so far? * Increasing the number of digits when you view your wallet? * Watching a group of pixels turn from black to orange to white and back to black? * Looking at yet another cloudy backdrop with white dots? * Staring at another bunch of rocks? Eve is supposed to be a game and games are supposed to be competitions (not always but Eve is PvP and so is obviously meant to be competitive). Right now there is no one to compete with. Well obviously you can choose to put yourself in the line of fire because you like watching explosions but there's really no point in it. No one suffers significantly (which is good) but neither do they lose strategically. Wars are lost because one side gets bored. Shiva at least introduces POS which is a reasonable goal if you can find enough people to help build and maintain them. We shall see whether enough people can stay together long enough to make them decent goals. It also introduces a charge for wars and that means you can break a corp financially to stop the war. Unfortunately like it or not a lot of people don't want to fight. POS will not help those people. You might think you can ignore those people but Eve would fail within weeks if all the 'carebears' left the game. Limit the stats to players immediately above/below you in the table but show everyone's position. Publish the stats once a week and they become a long term goal - that should deter the gankers from playing with Eve on one side and the 'score sheet' on the other. Originally by: Toran Mehtar There are plenty of online FPS league tables out there, I thought Eve was better than that. Whatever gave you that idea? Eve is a game, that's all. Worse, it's a product. CCP support it because it brings in money. They are not working to some higher purpose. As soon as Eve ceases to cover its cost CCP will pull the plug. In order to survive Eve has to change into whatever the market wants it to change into. Originally by: Toran Mehtar The statistics should enhance the game, not be the game. Agreed, but they can be a part of the game. If you don't want them don't read them. Maybe even have CCP make it an opt-in feature. Don't bother recording the stats for anyone unless they opt-in. That might even help reduce server load in gathering and displaying the stats. There are a lot of casual players out there (I'm one) who have been playing for six months and are now 'kicking water'. Those players aren't hard core enough to want to spend hours chasing their tails for the 'excitement' of some cute explosion graphics. -- (Battle hardened miner) [Brackley, UK] WARNING:This post may contain large doses of reality.
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.10.18 12:01:00 - [59] Originally by: Andrue Maybe even have CCP make it an opt-in feature. Don't bother recording the stats for anyone unless they opt-in. That might even help reduce server load in gathering and displaying the stats. Good idea. I changed my original post.
S'Daria	Posted - 2004.10.18 12:01:00 - [60] Originally by: Andrue Maybe even have CCP make it an opt-in feature. Don't bother recording the stats for anyone unless they opt-in. That might even help reduce server load in gathering and displaying the stats. Good idea. I changed my original post.

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