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[Proposal] Replace Kinetic Missile Bonus with r.o.f or Damage Bonus.

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Dav Varan	Posted - 2009.09.02 16:56:00 - [1] The 5% to Kinetic missile damage per skill level damage bonus that applys to the following ships is a poor bonus and should be replaced with a 5% per level damage or 5% per level r.o.f. Bonus like the other races get on there ships. Ships affected Caracal Cerberus Hawk Kestrel Drake Nighhawk Buzzard Phoenix Condor Heron Onyx Crow Rook Leviathan Gila Caracal Navy Issue Worm The Why Missile systems do less raw dps than Guns, to compensate for the above Missile users get to choose damage type so that they can fire against a ships resistance hole. Prefered Damage Type versus T1 Shield tanker EM T1 Armor tanker EXP T2 Caldari EM T2 Amarr Thermal T2 Gallente EXP T2 Minmatar Kinetic As can be seen above Kinetic is only really the first choice versus T2 Mini and will be somewhat effective versus T1 Armor Tanks. When a player flying a Caldari ship engages in Battle very often they will need to switch to a damage type other than Kinetic. As soon as a caldari player switches away from kinetic , he loses his ship damage bonus !!! Effectivelly A level 5 Pilot becomes no more effective at dealing damage than a level 1 pilot. No other races are expected to discard there damage bonuses while in combat. This does not happen with the other races where Dictating Range rather than damage type is often the required battle tactic. Gallente always get 5% more kin and 5% more Therm per player skill level and 10% more per level with drones ( EM/Therm/Kin/Exp ). Amarr always get 5% more EM and 5% more Therm per player skill level. Mini Always get 5% more ( EM/Therm/Kin/Exp ) per player skill depending on ammo choosen. Caldari get 5% more kinetic in 1/3 engagements depending upon target. Averaged out this is only 1.66% extra dps per player skill level. To be fair if this change is voted for and approved the following ships should also have there racial bonus replaced with something else Helios 10% Thermal drone Inquisitor +5% EM missiles Breacher +5% Explosive Misiles Eris +5% Thermal Rocket/Light Missile I have not included the stealth bombers where each race gets the same bonus applied to one of the four damage types. Excluding Stealths 19 Caldari ships get racial only damage bonus 2 Gallente ships get racial only damage bonus 1 Mini and 1 Amarr get racial damage bonus. The kin bonus is less of as issue during fleet combat where the pilot will load up one ammo type and stick with it. Where the kin bonus really falls down is in solo / small fleet action where choosing a damage type becomes more important. Might help towards improving the solo ability of caldari ships which is a bit lacking atm. Caldari Solo PVP Success Choose any three.
Dav Varan	Posted - 2009.09.02 16:58:00 - [2] .
Nidhiesk	Posted - 2009.09.02 17:05:00 - [3] does make sense this way to have more r.o.f rather that a specific dmg type. Like you said when your in pvp with missiles you always try to get the best dmg type which is not always kin in any case. better than the system we got now. I personally dont like to have 1 specific dmg type for a ship since it penalize you with other types. pve or pvp ofc
Ty'r Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.09.02 17:37:00 - [4] /signed
Eagle White	Posted - 2009.09.02 17:43:00 - [5] yea, me getting ****ed at a sucky nighthawk fireing thunderbolts.
Mashie Saldana BFG Tech	Posted - 2009.09.02 17:45:00 - [6] Not supported. If anything add kinetic damage bonus to the Raven and Golem to put them in line with the rest of the Caldari ships.
Lilith Velkor Minmatar Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.09.02 17:53:00 - [7] Not supported. Kinetic damage is caldari racial flavor, it needs to stay that way.
Dav Varan	Posted - 2009.09.02 18:01:00 - [8] Originally by: Lilith Velkor Not supported. Kinetic damage is caldari racial flavor, it needs to stay that way. In that case would you support the following. Amarr only get 5% bonus to EM component of damage from laser + 5% to em drones Gallente only get 5% bonus to Thermal component of damage from hybrids + 10% to Therm drones only Minimatar only get 5% bonus to Explosive component of damage from projectiles Currently only Caldari suffer from a racial bonus, other races get damage bonuses to all damage types they do with exception of the 4 ships listed in the OP. Get your facts straight before you post.
Lili Lu Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships	Posted - 2009.09.02 18:06:00 - [9] Not supported. Lasers have mostly em, with a little therm. Hybrid is mostly kinetic with a portion of therm. Projectile is mostly Explo. Yes you can get other damage with proj, but then it is projectile (low rof, low optimal, low clip size). Any damage bonus on hybrid or lasers is quite similar to the 5% kinetic bonus, and the damage bonus on projectiles is well . . on projectiles. Every weapon system is limted. If Caldari got rof accross the board where would the drawback be? My phoon gets rof, but then it is trully split weapons, and only 4 launchers. But, those 4 launchers consistently outdamage and outrange their gun counterparts similarly bonused.
Dav Varan	Posted - 2009.09.02 18:16:00 - [10] Originally by: Lili Lu Edited by: Lili Lu on 02/09/2009 18:08:28 Not supported. Lasers have mostly em, with a little therm. Hybrid is mostly kinetic with a portion of therm. Projectile is mostly Explo. Yes you can get other damage with proj, but then it is projectile (low rof, low optimal, low clip size). Any damage bonus on hybrid or lasers is quite similar to the 5% kinetic bonus, and the damage bonus on projectiles is well . . on projectiles. Every weapon system is limted. If Caldari got rof accross the board where would the drawback be? My phoon gets rof, but then it is trully split weapons, and only 4 launchers. But, those 4 launchers consistently outdamage and outrange their gun counterparts similarly bonused. Edit- Missiles can still be swapped to address a tank focused on one or two damage types. Gun damage type (again except projectile . . .) cannot be swapped out to address an opposing tank. If Caldari got rof accross the board where would the drawback be? No other ship has a drawback for training the skill level up. Why should Caldari missile users be expected to lose there ship damage bonus when other races do not ? If your using proj on a proj bonused ship you always get a 5% rof or damage bonus for every level you have trained on that ship type. This is not true for caldari missile boats , when a players switches out ammo type to ( EM missile / Thermal missile / Explosive Missile ) the damage bonus for traing for example lvl 5 caldari cruiser goes missing. The damage bonuses for Mini/Gallente/Amarr ships are allways there.
Nidhiesk	Posted - 2009.09.02 18:21:00 - [11] Edited by: Nidhiesk on 02/09/2009 18:22:59 Originally by: Lili Lu Not supported. Lasers have mostly em, with a little therm. Hybrid is mostly kinetic with a portion of therm. Projectile is mostly Explo. Yes you can get other damage with proj, but then it is projectile (low rof, low optimal, low clip size). Any damage bonus on hybrid or lasers is quite similar to the 5% kinetic bonus, and the damage bonus on projectiles is well . . on projectiles. Every weapon system is limted. If Caldari got rof accross the board where would the drawback be? My phoon gets rof, but then it is trully split weapons, and only 4 launchers. But, those 4 launchers consistently outdamage and outrange their gun counterparts similarly bonused. The drawback is that if we use any other type of dmg, we got no bonus. while other weapons usually get 2 type of dmg. (excluding proj which have 3 sometimes.) Thats why it would be better with r.o.f. also, like you know (if you don't you'll know it). Missiles + pvp = not so good because of dps. So having more r.o.f should be better. I dont have the numbers but guns are win in pvp compared to missiles usually and most of the time EDIT: ^ thats another way of saying it lol. You beat me to it
Trebor DeCaldar Formosa Universal HQ	Posted - 2009.09.02 18:31:00 - [12] pure damage bonus rather than 'kinetic' would be preferred... I'd take ROF though Originally by: Hoo Is Siigari lost a ship... In other news, water is wet, fire is hot, and bacon is delicious
Lili Lu Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships	Posted - 2009.09.02 18:32:00 - [13] Edited by: Lili Lu on 02/09/2009 18:35:25 Edited by: Lili Lu on 02/09/2009 18:33:57 Originally by: Dav Varan If your using proj on a proj bonused ship you always get a 5% rof or damage bonus for every level you have trained on that ship type. There is wonderful thing called falloff (i.e. paper damage is not always there) and missiles tend to outrange their gun counterparts, excepting on certain range bonused ships. Originally by: Dav Varan This is not true for caldari missile boats , when a players switches out ammo type to ( EM missile / Thermal missile / Explosive Missile ) the damage bonus for traing for example lvl 5 caldari cruiser goes missing. The damage bonuses for Mini/Gallente/Amarr ships are allways there. Again though, you have the option to switch damage if your damage type bonus is essentially neutered. A gun user does not.
Pian Shu Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Tread Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.02 18:42:00 - [14] I'm Caldari. I fly almost exclusively Caldari. I don't support this. Caldari missile boats do just fine. Other races don't get to pick their damage type -- they're stuck with one or two types, and it is always those types. You'll never find a ship in another race that has "+5% damage per level to any weapon you fit". Caldari is the "kinetic" race -- their resistances are high in kinetic, and their damage is primarily kinetic. That's the way the game has been designed. And it's perfectly fair. This has been done on purpose; if you need proof, just look at the Kestrel which gets a good bonus to kinetic, and a sub-standard bonus to every other missile type. There are some ships which already have rate-of-fire bonuses instead of damage bonuses -- if you must choose your type, fly one of these ships. (hint: half of the Cerberus' damage bonus is an ROF bonus; all of the Rook's damage bonus is an ROF bonus) If you think a ship is vulnerable to a specific type of damage, use that type of missile; most ships these days are tanked evenly across the board (or at least as much as possible). If anything, kinetic has an advantage because of all the people mouthing off that Caldari (the "kinetic" race) has some sort of birth defect when it comes to PvP.
Fille Balle Ballbreakers R us	Posted - 2009.09.02 18:50:00 - [15] Originally by: Lili Lu Edited by: Lili Lu on 02/09/2009 18:08:28 Not supported. Lasers have mostly em, with a little therm. Hybrid is mostly kinetic with a portion of therm. Projectile is mostly Explo. Yes you can get other damage with proj, but then it is projectile (low rof, low optimal, low clip size). Any damage bonus on hybrid or lasers is quite similar to the 5% kinetic bonus, and the damage bonus on projectiles is well . . on projectiles. Every weapon system is limted. If Caldari got rof accross the board where would the drawback be? My phoon gets rof, but then it is trully split weapons, and only 4 launchers. But, those 4 launchers consistently outdamage and outrange their gun counterparts similarly bonused. Edit- Missiles can still be swapped to address a tank focused on one or two damage types. Gun damage type (again except projectile . . .) cannot be swapped out to address an opposing tank. And drones? How about fighters? Shall we make it so that Amarr carriers get to deploy an additional Templar per level instead of fighters? Either way works for me. I don't use missiles btw.
RedSplat Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.09.02 19:05:00 - [16] No. Now go run some more missions in your drake Originally by: CCP Mitnal I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting. Originally by: CCP Mitnal it does get progressively longer.
Dav Varan	Posted - 2009.09.02 19:06:00 - [17] Originally by: Pian Shu I'm Caldari. I fly almost exclusively Caldari. I don't support this. Caldari missile boats do just fine. Other races don't get to pick their damage type -- they're stuck with one or two types, and it is always those types. You'll never find a ship in another race that has "+5% damage per level to any weapon you fit". All Projectile [Mini] users get to choose there damage type, all 4 damage types are bonused. All Gallente drones users get to choose there damage type, all 4 damage types are bonused. Hybrid users dont get to choose there damage type no, its allways Therm/Kin but both of those damage types get the 5% bonus per level ( not just Therm ) Laser usersdont get to choose there damage type no, Its allways EM/Therm but both of those dmage types get the 5% bonus per level ( Not just EM ) If you train level 5 amarr cruiser you will ALLWAYS get 25% more dps no matter what ammo you use ( range based tactics ) If you train level 5 mini cruiser you will ALLWAYS get 25% more dps no matter what ammo you use ( fallof + damage type based tactics ) If you train level 5 gallente cruiser you will ALLWAYS get 25% more dps no matter ammo you use ( range based tactics ) If you train level 5 caldari cruiser you will NOT ALLWAYS get 25% more dps ( you lose your ship damage bonus in 2 out of 3 engagements if you use the best ammo for the target ) Originally by: Pian Shu Caldari is the "kinetic" race -- their resistances are high in kinetic, and their damage is primarily kinetic. That's the way the game has been designed. And it's perfectly fair. Yes I understand the racial nature of why caldari get kinetic. Racial bonuses would be cool if they were applied to all races but they arnt. But racial damage type bonuses are not applied to the other races. If racial bonuses were to be applied fully. Gallente would get 5% to Blaster Thermal damage only and 5% thermal drones. Amarr would get 5% to Laser EM damage only and 5% EM drones. Mini would get 5% to EXP component of Projectile ammo damage , currently they get all 4. Originally by: Pian Shu This has been done on purpose; if you need proof, just look at the Kestrel which gets a good bonus to kinetic, and a sub-standard bonus to every other missile type. There are some ships which already have rate-of-fire bonuses instead of damage bonuses -- if you must choose your type, fly one of these ships. (hint: half of the Cerberus' damage bonus is an ROF bonus; all of the Rook's damage bonus is an ROF bonus) If you think a ship is vulnerable to a specific type of damage, use that type of missile; most ships these days are tanked evenly across the board (or at least as much as possible). If anything, kinetic has an advantage because of all the people mouthing off that Caldari (the "kinetic" race) has some sort of birth defect when it comes to PvP. Of course that what any decent missile pilot does, but choosing anything other than kinetic means you get no benefit for the training you did up your ship classes skill level. A level 1 pilot will do the same damage as you. Cerb gets a rof bonus yes + racial damage, the other damage hacs (deimos/zealot/muniin) get double damage bonuses.
Dav Varan	Posted - 2009.09.02 19:07:00 - [18] Originally by: RedSplat No. Now go run some more missions in your drake I mission in an Ishtar
Lili Lu Purveyors of Uber Research Valuables and Ships	Posted - 2009.09.02 20:02:00 - [19] Look, if CCP did this would there ever be a reason not to use a drake in pve? An afk drake for all seasons. You ignore the further imbalancing of pve if this change were implemented for a pvp bonus. You think you see a lot of drakes and Ravens etc in mission hubs now! Let me try to find some common ground as I will never support your proposal and I highly doubt CCP will do what you want. A change should be made not to the ship bonuses but to the missiles themselves. As things are now all missiles have the same stats. A thor torpedo is no different from a rift torpedo except in the type of damage. How about if kinetic missiles as a class had a better max velocity? Wouldn't that make them more useful for pvp, and take more advantage of the Caldari kinetic bonus (as well as being scientifcally consistent). Then explo missiles could have better stat for explo radius, em missiles better stat for explo velocity, and thermal a slightly better base damage. This would make missiles similar to drones, particularly as to sentry drones and light drones, where the type to use has factors beyond the damage type. So if you want slightly better range or speed to target and the benefit of the kinetic damage bonus use kinetic. If range or speed to target is not an issue you have a second damage option, thermal. If the speed or sig radius of the target is an issue . . .
Pian Shu Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Tread Alliance	Posted - 2009.09.02 20:21:00 - [20] Edited by: Pian Shu on 02/09/2009 20:22:49 If I come off with a "it's that way now, so it must always be that way" tune, that's not the way this is intended. I used to think that they should get a bonus to all missiles; but I thought about it for a while and came to the conclusion that a buff like that would unbalance the Caldari ships. Originally by: Dav Varan All Projectile [Mini] users get to choose there damage type, all 4 damage types are bonused. And the different types have a different range and do different amounts of damage; if you want the maximum damage output, you have to chose the close range ammunition which is explosive/kinetic. Again, if you want maximum range, you have to choose the long-range ammunition which is also explosive/kinetic. A Minmitar's choice is more about the range they want rather than the damage type they want to deal. Caldari get the same range and same damage output from each of the four missile types. Originally by: Dav Varan All Gallente drones users get to choose there damage type, all 4 damage types are bonused. I'll give you that one; but there are penalties the Gallente pay for that: their DPS can be destroyed and for maximum DPS they still have to use the Thermal drones as the others don't quite do as much damage. Also, you can't carry five lights and five heavies from each race (unless you're an ishtar and you can fit a whole carrier in your drone bay) whereas missile users can fit as many different types of ammo in their cargo hold as they have room for. Originally by: Dav Varan Hybrid users dont get to choose there damage type no, its allways Therm/Kin but both of those damage types get the 5% bonus per level ( not just Therm ) Laser usersdont get to choose there damage type no, Its allways EM/Therm but both of those dmage types get the 5% bonus per level ( Not just EM ) Isn't that what I said? Missiles just get one type of damage; it's different, but it's not unbalanced. Giving the Caldari a bonus to whatever damage type they want would push them too high. We already get to choose to have a weapon system that concentrates all of its power in a single damage type -- if we know where the hole is, we can take advantage of it. If an Amarr pilot knows that the target is vulnerable to explosive, he doesn't have much of a choice about what to do.
AtheistOfDoom Amarr The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.09.02 20:29:00 - [21] Edited by: AtheistOfDoom on 02/09/2009 20:37:59 Originally by: Dav Varan Originally by: Lilith Velkor Not supported. Kinetic damage is caldari racial flavor, it needs to stay that way. In that case would you support the following. Amarr only get 5% bonus to EM component of damage from laser + 5% to em drones Gallente only get 5% bonus to Thermal component of damage from hybrids + 10% to Therm drones only Minimatar only get 5% bonus to Explosive component of damage from projectiles Currently only Caldari suffer from a racial bonus, other races get damage bonuses to all damage types they do with exception of the 4 ships listed in the OP. Get your facts straight before you post. FAIL. I don't even fail like explaining why because it shouldn't be that hard to see. Racial bonus should stay as is. EDIT: I'm bored so I'll take a stab at it. Quote: If you train level 5 amarr cruiser you will ALLWAYS get 25% more dps no matter what ammo you use ( range based tactics ) Yes but unfortunately you only do EM AND THERMAL. Quote: If you train level 5 mini cruiser you will ALLWAYS get 25% more dps no matter what ammo you use ( fallof + damage type based tactics ) You do multiple damage types but not in the same way missiles do, your damage is spread between 2-3 different types. Quote: If you train level 5 gallente cruiser you will ALLWAYS get 25% more dps no matter ammo you use ( range based tactics ) You only do THERMAL AND KINETIC. With missiles you can therm/kin/exp/em and exploit the racial tank holes of the other races easier. Sure it's not as effective as if you were using kinetic but you can do explosive damage where hybrids are stuck with therm/kin... Pew Pew Lazorz!!!
Zara Skyray Carthage Industries Elite Trade Group	Posted - 2009.09.02 20:42:00 - [22] As a Caldari/Minmatar combat pilot, I understand the frustration of that damage bonus - but I also understand the reasons for it. Missiles have too many disadvantages to "balance" their two advantages - damage type selection and 0 cap use. With the exception of HAMs, all missiles do noticeably less damage than their counterparts (Rockets and Cruise Missiles in particular are very poor weapon types), and their damage boosting mods require more CPU. While their range is typically better than blasters and autocannons of the same size, this was intended to compensate for the time it takes for them to hit their targets. The fact that one of their advantages - damage type selection - is negated by the ship bonuses of the majority of ships intended to use them just adds insult to injury. I would say either give us a RoF bonus or buff missiles across the board to be more effective damage dealers, in line with blasters and autos.
Dav Varan	Posted - 2009.09.02 20:42:00 - [23] Originally by: Lili Lu Look, if CCP did this would there ever be a reason not to use a drake in pve? An afk drake for all seasons. You ignore the further imbalancing of pve if this change were implemented for a pvp bonus. You think you see a lot of drakes and Ravens etc in mission hubs now! Let me try to find some common ground as I will never support your proposal and I highly doubt CCP will do what you want. A change should be made not to the ship bonuses but to the missiles themselves. As things are now all missiles have the same stats. A thor torpedo is no different from a rift torpedo except in the type of damage. How about if kinetic missiles as a class had a better max velocity? Wouldn't that make them more useful for pvp, and take more advantage of the Caldari kinetic bonus (as well as being scientifcally consistent). Then explo missiles could have better stat for explo radius, em missiles better stat for explo velocity, and thermal a slightly better base damage. This would make missiles similar to drones, particularly as to sentry drones and light drones, where the type to use has factors beyond the damage type. So if you want slightly better range or speed to target and the benefit of the kinetic damage bonus use kinetic. If range or speed to target is not an issue you have a second damage option, thermal. If the speed or sig radius of the target is an issue . . . Yes it would make drake a bit better at PvE , Ravens dont get the KIN bonus atm they get r.o.f. and are fine. NH would also benefit for PvE, other races also have good PvE ships. I personal like the ishtar as it is ecm/damp proof and can salvage as it goes , even if its a bit slower than drake/NH. Re-engineering of missile combat might be a solution, as long as I always get a damage bonus on dps bonused ships for each levels of that ship class skill I have trained. But I dont think missiles are broken to the extent of requireing a rewrite. Whats broken imho is the Kin bonuses. Because having a bonus which increases dps only on one damage type is incompatible with combat tactics that require you to change damage type in order to do significant damage on target. I'm not trying to make missile boats op. If the bonuses did get changed and it did make CMB's overpowered then a small change in base missile damage would be enough to rebalance that. But after both changes we would be left with a situation where a lvl5 pilot is 20% more effective than a lvl1 pilot. A situation that other race pilots take for granted. Class for class CMB's are generally not as useful in solo/small gang pvp as the other races and this could be the shot in the arm that they need.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.09.02 20:45:00 - [24] "My weapon system is the best against NPC so it should be the best for PvP too" No, thanks.
Tortugan Internal Anarchy	Posted - 2009.09.02 21:07:00 - [25] Oh hey- another 'boost my race because I suck so much it's the only chance I have' thread. No. :D Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive	Posted - 2009.09.02 21:17:00 - [26] Nerf gank, buff tank. --Vel Jesus loves you. Everyone else thinks you're an asshat.
Dav Varan	Posted - 2009.09.02 22:57:00 - [27] Edited by: Dav Varan on 02/09/2009 23:05:42 Originally by: AtheistOfDoom Lots of stuff Let me illustate the issue another way Amarr damage bonus is compatable with range combat tactics Radio Crystal - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Microwave Crystal - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Infrared Crystal - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Standard Crystal - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Ultraviolet Crystal - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Xray Crystal - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Gamma Crystal - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Multifrequency Crystal - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Gallente damage bonus is compatible with range combat tactics Iron Charge - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Tungsten Charge - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Iridium Charge - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Lead Charge - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Thorium Charge - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Uranium Charge - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Plutonium Charge - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Antimatter Charge - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Minmatar damage bonus is compatible with range/damage type switching combat tactics Carbonised Lead Shell - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Nuclear Shell - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Proton Shell - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Depleted Uranium Shell - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Titanium Sabot Shell - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Fusion Shell - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Phased Plasma Shell - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill EMP Shell - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Caldari damage bonus is NOT compatible with damage type switching combat tactics Scourge Heavy Missile - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Hydra FOF Heavy Missile - 25% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Widowmaker heavy Missile - 0% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Hellhound FOF Heavy Missile - 0% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Thunderbolt Heavy Missile - 0% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Stalker FOF Heavy Missile - 0% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Havoc Heavy Missile - 0% more dps for training level 5 ship skill Exterminator FOF Heavy Missile - 0% more dps for training level 5 ship skill I have highlighted the problem area
Dav Varan	Posted - 2009.09.02 23:01:00 - [28] Originally by: Tortugan Oh hey- another 'boost my race because I suck so much it's the only chance I have' thread. No. personal attacks are not arguements for against a topic and btw My combat ranking = 366 You combat ranking = 2,639 So really who sucks ?
Dav Varan	Posted - 2009.09.02 23:02:00 - [29] Originally by: Venkul Mul "My weapon system is the best against NPC so it should be the best for PvP too" No, thanks. Your gallente so you must be refering to drones yes ? This is a thread about missiles and missile bonuses on caldari ships
Dav Varan	Posted - 2009.09.02 23:12:00 - [30] One last thing i need to point out I dont ever remember anyone saying the Sacrilege is overpowered It get damage and rof bonuses to short range high damage missiles If the sac is fine then the same bonuses can be applied to Caldari missiles boats without issue.

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Effectivelly A level 5 Pilot becomes no more effective at dealing damage than a level 1 pilot.