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Silvanemrys	Posted - 2004.10.31 09:29:00 - [91] Trader/Broker/Pimp at your service. I'm loving new market changes. With remote buying and selling I can sit in my li'l Executioner pimp mobile with half the cargo bay converted into a jacuzzi and the other half converted into... well you'll only get to see that if ye'r hot enough, babe... anyways, I digress.... I can sit in space in my ship and buy remotely and sell remotely! What's not to love about that? I can't wait to see how it all works after it settles down and the nerf bat has hit a couple of rounds. I'm curious about Margin Trading: "Ability to make potentially risky investments work in your favor. Each level of skill reduces the percentage of ISK placed in market escrow when entering buy orders. Starting with an escrow percentage of 100% at Level 1, each skill level cumulatively reduces the percentage by 25%." Anyone have any experience of what this is and how it works? My meagre brain can't quite sort that one out. I know that the market skills will be subject to change as time goes on, but change is a comin'. Adapt or die.
Silvanemrys	Posted - 2004.10.31 09:29:00 - [92] Trader/Broker/Pimp at your service. I'm loving new market changes. With remote buying and selling I can sit in my li'l Executioner pimp mobile with half the cargo bay converted into a jacuzzi and the other half converted into... well you'll only get to see that if ye'r hot enough, babe... anyways, I digress.... I can sit in space in my ship and buy remotely and sell remotely! What's not to love about that? I can't wait to see how it all works after it settles down and the nerf bat has hit a couple of rounds. I'm curious about Margin Trading: "Ability to make potentially risky investments work in your favor. Each level of skill reduces the percentage of ISK placed in market escrow when entering buy orders. Starting with an escrow percentage of 100% at Level 1, each skill level cumulatively reduces the percentage by 25%." Anyone have any experience of what this is and how it works? My meagre brain can't quite sort that one out. I know that the market skills will be subject to change as time goes on, but change is a comin'. Adapt or die.
Droidster	Posted - 2004.11.01 04:00:00 - [93] Answers to the last couple of questions: ORDER LIMIT: your order limit is the total number of orders you have both buy and sell. MARGIN TRADING: If you have level 5 you pay no margin. If you have level 0 or 1, 100% margin. Level 2 is 75%, 3 is 50% and 4 is 25%. For example, if you put up a buy order for a Megathron for 100 million isk and you don't have margin trading, the 100 million is IMMEDIATELY deducted from your wallet and placed into escrow pending completion of the order. If you cancel the order you get your 100 mil back. This new rule heavily discourages buy orders. I posted comments on the skill set required here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=119843 and comments on the changes from trying the test server here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=118908 ADJUNCT TRADING ENDS: I think the miner/refiner comments above are accurate and worth noting. There are a lot of players who currently use the market as an adjunct to their normal activities. For example, hunters put weapons and other loot for sale left and right. This kind of casual trading will end and the average player will only place an order when absolutely necessary. Because of the way they do business players like refiners and ammo manufacturers are going to get killed. Because of this it will be a lot harder to sell ore and buy ammo. CENTRALIZATION AND LOSS OF LIQUIDITY: Also, the centralization comment above is right on. Trading will become much more centralized and players will have to travel much farther to buy and sell things and the prices will be a lot worse. _____________________________________________ I am motivated by various things, mostly ISK.
Droidster	Posted - 2004.11.01 04:00:00 - [94] Answers to the last couple of questions: ORDER LIMIT: your order limit is the total number of orders you have both buy and sell. MARGIN TRADING: If you have level 5 you pay no margin. If you have level 0 or 1, 100% margin. Level 2 is 75%, 3 is 50% and 4 is 25%. For example, if you put up a buy order for a Megathron for 100 million isk and you don't have margin trading, the 100 million is IMMEDIATELY deducted from your wallet and placed into escrow pending completion of the order. If you cancel the order you get your 100 mil back. This new rule heavily discourages buy orders. I posted comments on the skill set required here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=119843 and comments on the changes from trying the test server here: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=118908 ADJUNCT TRADING ENDS: I think the miner/refiner comments above are accurate and worth noting. There are a lot of players who currently use the market as an adjunct to their normal activities. For example, hunters put weapons and other loot for sale left and right. This kind of casual trading will end and the average player will only place an order when absolutely necessary. Because of the way they do business players like refiners and ammo manufacturers are going to get killed. Because of this it will be a lot harder to sell ore and buy ammo. CENTRALIZATION AND LOSS OF LIQUIDITY: Also, the centralization comment above is right on. Trading will become much more centralized and players will have to travel much farther to buy and sell things and the prices will be a lot worse. _____________________________________________ I am motivated by various things, mostly ISK.
Sable Moran	Posted - 2004.11.01 12:41:00 - [95] Originally by: Droidster Because of the way they do business players like refiners and ammo manufacturers are going to get killed. Because of this it will be a lot harder to sell ore and buy ammo. Could you eleborate on this. I'm not entirely sure what is your rationale for thinking that ammo manufacturers would get killed. ----- Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene 5, Moon 4, Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Ammo at affordable prices.
Sable Moran	Posted - 2004.11.01 12:41:00 - [96] Originally by: Droidster Because of the way they do business players like refiners and ammo manufacturers are going to get killed. Because of this it will be a lot harder to sell ore and buy ammo. Could you eleborate on this. I'm not entirely sure what is your rationale for thinking that ammo manufacturers would get killed. ----- Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene 5, Moon 4, Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Ammo at affordable prices.
DX Cancri	Posted - 2004.11.01 23:16:00 - [97] I think the new Trade skills are going to do wonders for the market. I'm very much looking forward to this change. :-D
DX Cancri	Posted - 2004.11.01 23:16:00 - [98] I think the new Trade skills are going to do wonders for the market. I'm very much looking forward to this change. :-D
Ki Shodan	Posted - 2004.11.02 01:31:00 - [99] Originally by: Sable Moran Could you eleborate on this. I'm not entirely sure what is your rationale for thinking that ammo manufacturers would get killed. how much ammo types there are? Ammo-manufacturers often have missles too, or? another thing to add to the orderlimit. how do you get your minerals? do you need buy orders for that, too? what about the money, you need to pay for these buy-orders in front? how much orders you can place? you place your products only in one station? i see dead manufacturers walking.
Ki Shodan	Posted - 2004.11.02 01:31:00 - [100] Originally by: Sable Moran Could you eleborate on this. I'm not entirely sure what is your rationale for thinking that ammo manufacturers would get killed. how much ammo types there are? Ammo-manufacturers often have missles too, or? another thing to add to the orderlimit. how do you get your minerals? do you need buy orders for that, too? what about the money, you need to pay for these buy-orders in front? how much orders you can place? you place your products only in one station? i see dead manufacturers walking.

coldheat	Posted - 2004.11.02 14:17:00 - [101] Time to open market forums and channels and sell old fasion way. Seems this will become most used method kinda outsourcing on non official boards :-). Like in good old days in Earth and Beyond :-)
coldheat	Posted - 2004.11.02 14:17:00 - [102] Time to open market forums and channels and sell old fasion way. Seems this will become most used method kinda outsourcing on non official boards :-). Like in good old days in Earth and Beyond :-)
Sable Moran	Posted - 2004.11.02 14:18:00 - [103] Originally by: Ki Shodan how much ammo types there are? {Snip} you place your products only in one station? i see dead manufacturers walking. All those points crossed my mind. And if there'll be a flock of dead manufactures just because of that then I say good riddance. Training a few trade skills to appropriate level to continue selling their ammo is not much of a trouble. If they can't be bothered to train them it's their choice. But, come shiva Sable's Ammo Shop will still be up and running. It is possible (maybe even probable) that I have to close down the branch office at Stacmon. Also the availability of minerals might cause some temporary shortages on the most popular products but that's about it. ----- Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene 5, Moon 4, Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Ammo at affordable prices.
Sable Moran	Posted - 2004.11.02 14:18:00 - [104] Originally by: Ki Shodan how much ammo types there are? {Snip} you place your products only in one station? i see dead manufacturers walking. All those points crossed my mind. And if there'll be a flock of dead manufactures just because of that then I say good riddance. Training a few trade skills to appropriate level to continue selling their ammo is not much of a trouble. If they can't be bothered to train them it's their choice. But, come shiva Sable's Ammo Shop will still be up and running. It is possible (maybe even probable) that I have to close down the branch office at Stacmon. Also the availability of minerals might cause some temporary shortages on the most popular products but that's about it. ----- Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene 5, Moon 4, Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Ammo at affordable prices.
Ada Isdead	Posted - 2004.11.02 21:36:00 - [105] The worrying thing about the new trade skills is that they remove existing capabilitys from the players and add no new features, other than a big time sink. The real question is, do we want the developers to do this kind of thing, or is this style of "content" a scam? Suppose that post shiva the devs introduce 'advanced navigation' skills, +5% to speed per ship class (e.g. frigate nav, cruiser nav, etc). Great you say, but if they follow the trend they've started with the trade skills, they would reduce all ship speeds by 25% at the same time... Not so great. So, what are we paying for? Should expansions and patches contain 'new' content, that is content that adds to our existing capabilities? Or is it acceptable to you that we should be nerfed and timesinked? Why should we waste time training skills to do things we can already do? I could understand if the new trade skills only effected trades made outside a station, beacause that would be an additional capability, or if it allowed us to see and place trades in adjecent regions. Post shiva when the players realise that CCP has taken them for a ride, the devs are going to get one hell of a flameing. This change makes it harder for newbies - it's now eaiser to scam them beacause they won't have as wide a range of sellers to buy from, and make starting a manufacturing carrer vastly harder (not that the current lab slot situation makes it easy). and what about the T2 component market? How are all those agent runners and T2 manufacturers going to find each others orders? If CCP cares about the economy they should remove the new trade skills asap, they should be concentrating on makeing it as easy as possibly for buyers and sellers to find each other and exchange goods for cash, with the new trade skill change we're going to be spending more of our time spaming WTS and WTB on the trade channels. I really don't think they've thought this through, and as usual we're had no justifcation from the devs on why they made this change.
Ada Isdead	Posted - 2004.11.02 21:36:00 - [106] The worrying thing about the new trade skills is that they remove existing capabilitys from the players and add no new features, other than a big time sink. The real question is, do we want the developers to do this kind of thing, or is this style of "content" a scam? Suppose that post shiva the devs introduce 'advanced navigation' skills, +5% to speed per ship class (e.g. frigate nav, cruiser nav, etc). Great you say, but if they follow the trend they've started with the trade skills, they would reduce all ship speeds by 25% at the same time... Not so great. So, what are we paying for? Should expansions and patches contain 'new' content, that is content that adds to our existing capabilities? Or is it acceptable to you that we should be nerfed and timesinked? Why should we waste time training skills to do things we can already do? I could understand if the new trade skills only effected trades made outside a station, beacause that would be an additional capability, or if it allowed us to see and place trades in adjecent regions. Post shiva when the players realise that CCP has taken them for a ride, the devs are going to get one hell of a flameing. This change makes it harder for newbies - it's now eaiser to scam them beacause they won't have as wide a range of sellers to buy from, and make starting a manufacturing carrer vastly harder (not that the current lab slot situation makes it easy). and what about the T2 component market? How are all those agent runners and T2 manufacturers going to find each others orders? If CCP cares about the economy they should remove the new trade skills asap, they should be concentrating on makeing it as easy as possibly for buyers and sellers to find each other and exchange goods for cash, with the new trade skill change we're going to be spending more of our time spaming WTS and WTB on the trade channels. I really don't think they've thought this through, and as usual we're had no justifcation from the devs on why they made this change.
Jocca Quinn	Posted - 2004.11.03 14:13:00 - [107] Originally by: Ada Isdead The worrying thing about the new trade skills is that they remove existing capabilitys from the players and add no new features, other than a big time sink. The real question is, do we want the developers to do this kind of thing, or is this style of "content" a scam? Suppose that post shiva the devs introduce 'advanced navigation' skills, +5% to speed per ship class (e.g. frigate nav, cruiser nav, etc). Great you say, but if they follow the trend they've started with the trade skills, they would reduce all ship speeds by 25% at the same time... Not so great. So, what are we paying for? Should expansions and patches contain 'new' content, that is content that adds to our existing capabilities? Or is it acceptable to you that we should be nerfed and timesinked? Why should we waste time training skills to do things we can already do? I could understand if the new trade skills only effected trades made outside a station, beacause that would be an additional capability, or if it allowed us to see and place trades in adjecent regions. Post shiva when the players realise that CCP has taken them for a ride, the devs are going to get one hell of a flameing. This change makes it harder for newbies - it's now eaiser to scam them beacause they won't have as wide a range of sellers to buy from, and make starting a manufacturing carrer vastly harder (not that the current lab slot situation makes it easy). and what about the T2 component market? How are all those agent runners and T2 manufacturers going to find each others orders? If CCP cares about the economy they should remove the new trade skills asap, they should be concentrating on makeing it as easy as possibly for buyers and sellers to find each other and exchange goods for cash, with the new trade skill change we're going to be spending more of our time spaming WTS and WTB on the trade channels. I really don't think they've thought this through, and as usual we're had no justifcation from the devs on why they made this change. My thoughts exactly. The new skills are a nerf to our abilites .. simply a timesink to slow us down until really "new" content appears. JQ none of us are free as long as one of us is chained none of us are free
Jocca Quinn	Posted - 2004.11.03 14:13:00 - [108] Originally by: Ada Isdead The worrying thing about the new trade skills is that they remove existing capabilitys from the players and add no new features, other than a big time sink. The real question is, do we want the developers to do this kind of thing, or is this style of "content" a scam? Suppose that post shiva the devs introduce 'advanced navigation' skills, +5% to speed per ship class (e.g. frigate nav, cruiser nav, etc). Great you say, but if they follow the trend they've started with the trade skills, they would reduce all ship speeds by 25% at the same time... Not so great. So, what are we paying for? Should expansions and patches contain 'new' content, that is content that adds to our existing capabilities? Or is it acceptable to you that we should be nerfed and timesinked? Why should we waste time training skills to do things we can already do? I could understand if the new trade skills only effected trades made outside a station, beacause that would be an additional capability, or if it allowed us to see and place trades in adjecent regions. Post shiva when the players realise that CCP has taken them for a ride, the devs are going to get one hell of a flameing. This change makes it harder for newbies - it's now eaiser to scam them beacause they won't have as wide a range of sellers to buy from, and make starting a manufacturing carrer vastly harder (not that the current lab slot situation makes it easy). and what about the T2 component market? How are all those agent runners and T2 manufacturers going to find each others orders? If CCP cares about the economy they should remove the new trade skills asap, they should be concentrating on makeing it as easy as possibly for buyers and sellers to find each other and exchange goods for cash, with the new trade skill change we're going to be spending more of our time spaming WTS and WTB on the trade channels. I really don't think they've thought this through, and as usual we're had no justifcation from the devs on why they made this change. My thoughts exactly. The new skills are a nerf to our abilites .. simply a timesink to slow us down until really "new" content appears. JQ none of us are free as long as one of us is chained none of us are free
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2004.11.04 01:53:00 - [109] Edited by: MOOstradamus on 04/11/2004 01:56:00 /me drives the 'Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance' all around this thread ... Margin Trading: MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."
MOOstradamus	Posted - 2004.11.04 01:53:00 - [110] Edited by: MOOstradamus on 04/11/2004 01:56:00 /me drives the 'Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance' all around this thread ... Margin Trading: MOOrovingian "Following & supporting EVE (since Jan 2001) is like wiping your arse with sandpaper."

Milton Smythe	Posted - 2004.11.04 03:23:00 - [111] I welcome this change. You can sit in the belts and manage your little industry. (doing something while mining is a big yaay) The market will be more clean. The silly orders that affects us all.. if only in adding to the laod time of the market, will disappear. Market has been easy up to now , but there is a huge room to make somethinf of it. to add a new facet to the profession list. A casual customer need not train anything at all. If an item is out there and for sale , the seller will make sure you see it. Even if you need to train these skills it will only be a few days.. a few days the market griefers will be unwilling to put up. EVE will look more alive. I for one am training these skills even now and I will start by taking them all to level 4 barring wholesale which will sit in my hangar avaiting my attention if I indeed will need it. I am sure my esteemed competitors will do the same .. at least now they will. Love it .. hate it , but cope with it. Let us see how it works before we judge it. At least those of you who has not tested it at all on the test server.
Milton Smythe	Posted - 2004.11.04 03:23:00 - [112] I welcome this change. You can sit in the belts and manage your little industry. (doing something while mining is a big yaay) The market will be more clean. The silly orders that affects us all.. if only in adding to the laod time of the market, will disappear. Market has been easy up to now , but there is a huge room to make somethinf of it. to add a new facet to the profession list. A casual customer need not train anything at all. If an item is out there and for sale , the seller will make sure you see it. Even if you need to train these skills it will only be a few days.. a few days the market griefers will be unwilling to put up. EVE will look more alive. I for one am training these skills even now and I will start by taking them all to level 4 barring wholesale which will sit in my hangar avaiting my attention if I indeed will need it. I am sure my esteemed competitors will do the same .. at least now they will. Love it .. hate it , but cope with it. Let us see how it works before we judge it. At least those of you who has not tested it at all on the test server.
Vaar	Posted - 2004.11.05 16:38:00 - [113] Come on guys, I for one love this change. I think of myself as a trader personally as I get all the raw materials and sell the final product without ever touching production. As it is right now everyone has the same ability to use the market and surely that is not right. No one here is shouting that we all should be able to have Perfect Refining, Mining, Production, Research skills etc. So why if you have to learn those skills are these new Trade skills unfair. Plus these skills really don't take that long to train.
Vaar	Posted - 2004.11.05 16:38:00 - [114] Come on guys, I for one love this change. I think of myself as a trader personally as I get all the raw materials and sell the final product without ever touching production. As it is right now everyone has the same ability to use the market and surely that is not right. No one here is shouting that we all should be able to have Perfect Refining, Mining, Production, Research skills etc. So why if you have to learn those skills are these new Trade skills unfair. Plus these skills really don't take that long to train.
DrummelHolmen	Posted - 2004.11.07 21:08:00 - [115] What can I say...CCP this is the best you guys have done since EVE hit retail...finally I can become a trader, "soon" with 29 attribute points in Charisma and theese skills will be trained in no time :P It's finally a profession to be a trader. For you guys that are miners/refiners and all other "professions" that have existed in EVE for some time now, I take 40% of all profit you do, just send me an eve-mail
DrummelHolmen	Posted - 2004.11.07 21:08:00 - [116] What can I say...CCP this is the best you guys have done since EVE hit retail...finally I can become a trader, "soon" with 29 attribute points in Charisma and theese skills will be trained in no time :P It's finally a profession to be a trader. For you guys that are miners/refiners and all other "professions" that have existed in EVE for some time now, I take 40% of all profit you do, just send me an eve-mail
Khirion El'Laputa	Posted - 2004.11.09 09:37:00 - [117] Im noob... i have 500k skill points, my charisma is 10 (yup... its quite high for a noob). Im an average miner. Do i have any chance of selling my ore? Any chance? Do you think, that i can afford buying skills for 37M? Do you realy think that learning this skills (not mining skills) is good for me? I realy don't know if this changes are good. May be for expirienced players its not a big deal... for me it is.. it will kill any proffit for me. Not to mention that i could have problem with finding buyers for ore, because most of manufactuers (wich buy most ore), will have orders visible locally. Anyway its allways the small that are hurt the most. Khirion
Khirion El'Laputa	Posted - 2004.11.09 09:37:00 - [118] Im noob... i have 500k skill points, my charisma is 10 (yup... its quite high for a noob). Im an average miner. Do i have any chance of selling my ore? Any chance? Do you think, that i can afford buying skills for 37M? Do you realy think that learning this skills (not mining skills) is good for me? I realy don't know if this changes are good. May be for expirienced players its not a big deal... for me it is.. it will kill any proffit for me. Not to mention that i could have problem with finding buyers for ore, because most of manufactuers (wich buy most ore), will have orders visible locally. Anyway its allways the small that are hurt the most. Khirion
Jocca Quinn	Posted - 2004.11.09 16:57:00 - [119] I'm sure I saw the ability to make a buy order from the corp account on the test server. Can anyone tell me if you can make a SELL order from the corp account. ie so the proceeds from the sale go directly into the corp account JQ none of us are free as long as one of us is chained none of us are free
Jocca Quinn	Posted - 2004.11.09 16:57:00 - [120] I'm sure I saw the ability to make a buy order from the corp account on the test server. Can anyone tell me if you can make a SELL order from the corp account. ie so the proceeds from the sale go directly into the corp account JQ none of us are free as long as one of us is chained none of us are free



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