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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Neurotic Cat
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Posted - 2004.11.09 22:45:00 -
[121]
Seems to me that the n00b miner that wants to sell his haul region wide should join a corp that has one guy with maxed out trading skills. The corp buys the rocks, the n00b heads back out to the belt, and everyone wins.
Trade skills build team work.
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Neurotic Cat
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Posted - 2004.11.09 22:45:00 -
[122]
Seems to me that the n00b miner that wants to sell his haul region wide should join a corp that has one guy with maxed out trading skills. The corp buys the rocks, the n00b heads back out to the belt, and everyone wins.
Trade skills build team work.
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Ki Shodan
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Posted - 2004.11.10 07:50:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Neurotic Cat
Trade skills build team work.
see it the other way round: Trade Skills kills the freelancers, that have not enough money in reallife to have a 2nd account with a hauler and a 3rd with a trader.
it kills the nOObs since they can not do trade on their own, and many will get exploited by the corp-broker .... (and yes, not all corps do exploit their members, but quite a lot do.) |
Ki Shodan
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Posted - 2004.11.10 07:50:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Neurotic Cat
Trade skills build team work.
see it the other way round: Trade Skills kills the freelancers, that have not enough money in reallife to have a 2nd account with a hauler and a 3rd with a trader.
it kills the nOObs since they can not do trade on their own, and many will get exploited by the corp-broker .... (and yes, not all corps do exploit their members, but quite a lot do.) |
Neurotic Cat
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Posted - 2004.11.11 02:47:00 -
[125]
>>(and yes, not all corps do exploit their members, but quite a lot do.)
Find a good corp that will take care of you without exploiting you.
Feeling exploited by your corp? Quit and hire some mercenaries to correct their very bad manners.
"If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the Sharks."
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Neurotic Cat
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Posted - 2004.11.11 02:47:00 -
[126]
>>(and yes, not all corps do exploit their members, but quite a lot do.)
Find a good corp that will take care of you without exploiting you.
Feeling exploited by your corp? Quit and hire some mercenaries to correct their very bad manners.
"If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them, maybe you can hire the Sharks."
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.11.11 15:00:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Jocca Quinn I'm sure I saw the ability to make a buy order from the corp account on the test server.
Can anyone tell me if you can make a SELL order from the corp account. ie so the proceeds from the sale go directly into the corp account
JQ
Yes , Yes --------------------------
Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.11.11 15:00:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Jocca Quinn I'm sure I saw the ability to make a buy order from the corp account on the test server.
Can anyone tell me if you can make a SELL order from the corp account. ie so the proceeds from the sale go directly into the corp account
JQ
Yes , Yes --------------------------
Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Ki Shodan
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Posted - 2004.11.12 13:08:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Neurotic Cat
Find a good corp that will take care of you without exploiting you.
Feeling exploited by your corp? Quit and hire some mercenaries to correct their very bad manners.
most nOObs dunno, that they are exploited. and when they have realized it, they have no money to hire mercs. :-)
on the other hand i heard stories about poor corps that once they have given their members Battle Ships were abbandon by these members. :D
"the greatest enemy of freedom is the lucky slave. (erich m³hsam)" |
Ki Shodan
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Posted - 2004.11.12 13:08:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Neurotic Cat
Find a good corp that will take care of you without exploiting you.
Feeling exploited by your corp? Quit and hire some mercenaries to correct their very bad manners.
most nOObs dunno, that they are exploited. and when they have realized it, they have no money to hire mercs. :-)
on the other hand i heard stories about poor corps that once they have given their members Battle Ships were abbandon by these members. :D
"the greatest enemy of freedom is the lucky slave. (erich m³hsam)" |
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Mr Gimlet
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Posted - 2004.11.13 12:20:00 -
[131]
This seems a good thread to get answers on trading. I think i pretty much get the idea of all these new skills except margin trading. Other than it seems to be something to do with escrow i dont realy understand what the description is going on about. Anyone help me on that? as i dont want to spend 20 mill on a skill that might not do anything for me
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Mr Gimlet
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Posted - 2004.11.13 12:20:00 -
[132]
This seems a good thread to get answers on trading. I think i pretty much get the idea of all these new skills except margin trading. Other than it seems to be something to do with escrow i dont realy understand what the description is going on about. Anyone help me on that? as i dont want to spend 20 mill on a skill that might not do anything for me
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Decairn
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Posted - 2004.11.14 00:24:00 -
[133]
Well, I have managed to dump 1 million points in trade skills since they went in. Have all but margin trading and wholesale, all at level 4 except trade to level 5. So my take on it is it really isn't a big deal at all, the only thing that hurts is paying out the large amount of ISK for it. If I were a new or poorer player I can see some serious thought being put into which ones to buy in order to reap maximum benefit, other than that its just a little time to get them up to snuff.
--Decairn |
Decairn
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Posted - 2004.11.14 00:24:00 -
[134]
Well, I have managed to dump 1 million points in trade skills since they went in. Have all but margin trading and wholesale, all at level 4 except trade to level 5. So my take on it is it really isn't a big deal at all, the only thing that hurts is paying out the large amount of ISK for it. If I were a new or poorer player I can see some serious thought being put into which ones to buy in order to reap maximum benefit, other than that its just a little time to get them up to snuff.
--Decairn |
Sable Moran
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Posted - 2004.11.14 10:47:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Mr Gimlet I think i pretty much get the idea of all these new skills except margin trading. Other than it seems to be something to do with escrow i dont realy understand what the description is going on about. Anyone help me on that?
If you don't need _large_ buy orders (worth tens of millions) don't bother with that skill.
In shiva when you put up a buy order you have to pay it up front. If you don't have the margin trading skill you will have to pay the whole balance of the buy order. With the skill you have to pay only a certain persentage up front. ----- Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene 5, Moon 4, Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Ammo at affordable prices. |
Sable Moran
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Posted - 2004.11.14 10:47:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Mr Gimlet I think i pretty much get the idea of all these new skills except margin trading. Other than it seems to be something to do with escrow i dont realy understand what the description is going on about. Anyone help me on that?
If you don't need _large_ buy orders (worth tens of millions) don't bother with that skill.
In shiva when you put up a buy order you have to pay it up front. If you don't have the margin trading skill you will have to pay the whole balance of the buy order. With the skill you have to pay only a certain persentage up front. ----- Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene 5, Moon 4, Duvolle Laboratories Factory. Ammo at affordable prices. |
Top Dog
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Posted - 2004.11.14 17:18:00 -
[137]
I think there is a lot of unecessary worrying regarding how the market will work, but I believe alot will depend on professional traders making the market liquid for everyone - just like in RL markets. If there is profit for the trader, as a profession, then it will work.
Take the example of noob miner. He mines, refines then places a sell order in his local station - say Mex @ 12isk/unit. Now that mex will only be "seen" by those in the station. However, the canny trader, who has all skills to the required level will place a region wide buy order for mex @ say 10 isk. The noob miner can see this "demand" and decides to sell his mex for 10/unit. The canny trader will get this trade at 10 isk/unit. He can then immediately place a region-wide sell order on the same qty of mex at say 12isk/unit (without leaving his station) and it will be visible to everyone in the region. If he sells it he makes 20% profit/unit. Thats what a broker does in RL and that how this market works. The miner, fighter producer etc, if they dont want to train up the trade skills will have to sell to a trader who takes the risk and hopefully the profit to sell it onto a wider community because he has the required skills.
For items that are regularly traded (e.g. minerals) the market will be fairly liquid, but for more specialised items that dont have a trader "buying" them, then the market will be quite illiquid. Illiquid = high prices/lack of supply.
The interesting perspective on this is that the new breed of professional traders will be competing with each other via their region wide buy orders - for your goods, to sell onto your eventual customers - just as it should be.
Now I hear the cries of "less profit" for the miner, fighter etc, but think about the additions that Shiva brings - higher mining yields, mining barges, lvl4 agents etc . All this will generate more isk for the mining & fighting professions, but some of that will need to be foresaken to the trader with lower "sells" on the new market.
The principle that CCP is sticking to, and one that I think is working well is the road to profession specialisation. The new trade skills will further enhance this.
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Top Dog
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Posted - 2004.11.14 17:18:00 -
[138]
I think there is a lot of unecessary worrying regarding how the market will work, but I believe alot will depend on professional traders making the market liquid for everyone - just like in RL markets. If there is profit for the trader, as a profession, then it will work.
Take the example of noob miner. He mines, refines then places a sell order in his local station - say Mex @ 12isk/unit. Now that mex will only be "seen" by those in the station. However, the canny trader, who has all skills to the required level will place a region wide buy order for mex @ say 10 isk. The noob miner can see this "demand" and decides to sell his mex for 10/unit. The canny trader will get this trade at 10 isk/unit. He can then immediately place a region-wide sell order on the same qty of mex at say 12isk/unit (without leaving his station) and it will be visible to everyone in the region. If he sells it he makes 20% profit/unit. Thats what a broker does in RL and that how this market works. The miner, fighter producer etc, if they dont want to train up the trade skills will have to sell to a trader who takes the risk and hopefully the profit to sell it onto a wider community because he has the required skills.
For items that are regularly traded (e.g. minerals) the market will be fairly liquid, but for more specialised items that dont have a trader "buying" them, then the market will be quite illiquid. Illiquid = high prices/lack of supply.
The interesting perspective on this is that the new breed of professional traders will be competing with each other via their region wide buy orders - for your goods, to sell onto your eventual customers - just as it should be.
Now I hear the cries of "less profit" for the miner, fighter etc, but think about the additions that Shiva brings - higher mining yields, mining barges, lvl4 agents etc . All this will generate more isk for the mining & fighting professions, but some of that will need to be foresaken to the trader with lower "sells" on the new market.
The principle that CCP is sticking to, and one that I think is working well is the road to profession specialisation. The new trade skills will further enhance this.
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Barbicane
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Posted - 2004.11.14 18:31:00 -
[139]
Top Dog, Well put. I couldn't have said it better myself. I just want to add that the new trading skills gives is a great opportunity for new players who want to work as traders. It takes approx. 1 mil skill points to be a top-notch trader. That's on par with what it takes to be a good miner or agent runner, or an ok scientist or fighter. Finally trading will become a true profession. I've been waiting for this for 1.5 years now. |
Barbicane
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Posted - 2004.11.14 18:31:00 -
[140]
Top Dog, Well put. I couldn't have said it better myself. I just want to add that the new trading skills gives is a great opportunity for new players who want to work as traders. It takes approx. 1 mil skill points to be a top-notch trader. That's on par with what it takes to be a good miner or agent runner, or an ok scientist or fighter. Finally trading will become a true profession. I've been waiting for this for 1.5 years now. |
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.11.15 10:05:00 -
[141]
Has this been tested with a massive seeding? I cant help but be suspicious of an already slow market being even slower at the region level when you can no longer optimize by region. Maybe they have it well in hand though!
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Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.11.15 10:05:00 -
[142]
Has this been tested with a massive seeding? I cant help but be suspicious of an already slow market being even slower at the region level when you can no longer optimize by region. Maybe they have it well in hand though!
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Excavation Svcs
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:32:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Barbicane Top Dog, Well put. I couldn't have said it better myself. I just want to add that the new trading skills gives is a great opportunity for new players who want to work as traders. It takes approx. 1 mil skill points to be a top-notch trader. That's on par with what it takes to be a good miner or agent runner, or an ok scientist or fighter. Finally trading will become a true profession. I've been waiting for this for 1.5 years now.
Theres only one problem. Trading doesnt take much time. You scout the market for a couple of hours untill you know the prices. Then you place your little amount of orders for another hour. Then you wait days till they get executed. You can't be only a trader in EVE. And the need for training now makes it impossible for new players to be a trader. They NEED combat or mining skills do actually play the game. Also why have you been waiting 1.5 years? Everything you can do with the new skills you could have done better in the past year. And more.
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Excavation Svcs
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:32:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Barbicane Top Dog, Well put. I couldn't have said it better myself. I just want to add that the new trading skills gives is a great opportunity for new players who want to work as traders. It takes approx. 1 mil skill points to be a top-notch trader. That's on par with what it takes to be a good miner or agent runner, or an ok scientist or fighter. Finally trading will become a true profession. I've been waiting for this for 1.5 years now.
Theres only one problem. Trading doesnt take much time. You scout the market for a couple of hours untill you know the prices. Then you place your little amount of orders for another hour. Then you wait days till they get executed. You can't be only a trader in EVE. And the need for training now makes it impossible for new players to be a trader. They NEED combat or mining skills do actually play the game. Also why have you been waiting 1.5 years? Everything you can do with the new skills you could have done better in the past year. And more.
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Barbicane
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Posted - 2004.11.15 18:01:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Excavation Svcs
Originally by: Barbicane Top Dog, Well put. I couldn't have said it better myself...
Theres only one problem. Trading doesnt take much time. You scout the market for a couple of hours untill you know the prices. Then you place your little amount of orders for another hour. Then you wait days till they get executed. You can't be only a trader in EVE. And the need for training now makes it impossible for new players to be a trader. They NEED combat or mining skills do actually play the game. Also why have you been waiting 1.5 years? Everything you can do with the new skills you could have done better in the past year. And more.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Trading takes an immense amount of time. I easily spend 3-4 hours per day on it, and I could spend a lot more if I didn't have to work, sleep, and eat . Part of the problem is of course the huge competition. Since everyone can do it, a trader has to continually monitor his buy and sell orders to make sure he remains competitive.
Several of these "new" skills were actually available 1.5 years ago when the game started. But they didn't do anything. People who got them through character creation and trained them received nothing for the effort. That's what I meant by trading finally becoming a true profession.
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Barbicane
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Posted - 2004.11.15 18:01:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Excavation Svcs
Originally by: Barbicane Top Dog, Well put. I couldn't have said it better myself...
Theres only one problem. Trading doesnt take much time. You scout the market for a couple of hours untill you know the prices. Then you place your little amount of orders for another hour. Then you wait days till they get executed. You can't be only a trader in EVE. And the need for training now makes it impossible for new players to be a trader. They NEED combat or mining skills do actually play the game. Also why have you been waiting 1.5 years? Everything you can do with the new skills you could have done better in the past year. And more.
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Trading takes an immense amount of time. I easily spend 3-4 hours per day on it, and I could spend a lot more if I didn't have to work, sleep, and eat . Part of the problem is of course the huge competition. Since everyone can do it, a trader has to continually monitor his buy and sell orders to make sure he remains competitive.
Several of these "new" skills were actually available 1.5 years ago when the game started. But they didn't do anything. People who got them through character creation and trained them received nothing for the effort. That's what I meant by trading finally becoming a true profession.
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Antione Allyne
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Posted - 2004.11.16 18:13:00 -
[147]
Here's a question for 'ya...if you don't have Procurement and Visibility, just Trade...and you set up a "sell" order, then someone sets up a remote "buy" order that just happens to match your asking price, won't the trade be settled? If that's the case, then don't worry too much about all of the new skills. Leave that to the specialized traders. Just create honest sell orders and all will be well. It will sell eventually, even if no one can see it outside of the station.
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Antione Allyne
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Posted - 2004.11.16 18:13:00 -
[148]
Here's a question for 'ya...if you don't have Procurement and Visibility, just Trade...and you set up a "sell" order, then someone sets up a remote "buy" order that just happens to match your asking price, won't the trade be settled? If that's the case, then don't worry too much about all of the new skills. Leave that to the specialized traders. Just create honest sell orders and all will be well. It will sell eventually, even if no one can see it outside of the station.
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.11.17 17:26:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Harisdrop on 17/11/2004 17:30:04
Originally by: Antione Allyne Here's a question for 'ya...if you don't have Procurement and Visibility, just Trade...and you set up a "sell" order, then someone sets up a remote "buy" order that just happens to match your asking price, won't the trade be settled? If that's the case, then don't worry too much about all of the new skills. Leave that to the specialized traders. Just create honest sell orders and all will be well. It will sell eventually, even if no one can see it outside of the station.
That the basic concept. But what more than likely will happen is you dont even need to set an order. I believe there will be buy orders region wide to buy stuff. Most orders will be honest cause orders will be hard to come by.
I plan on setting buy orders at certain Corporation stations which I have high standing too, to get the most out of my orders. --------------------------
Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.11.17 17:26:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Harisdrop on 17/11/2004 17:30:04
Originally by: Antione Allyne Here's a question for 'ya...if you don't have Procurement and Visibility, just Trade...and you set up a "sell" order, then someone sets up a remote "buy" order that just happens to match your asking price, won't the trade be settled? If that's the case, then don't worry too much about all of the new skills. Leave that to the specialized traders. Just create honest sell orders and all will be well. It will sell eventually, even if no one can see it outside of the station.
That the basic concept. But what more than likely will happen is you dont even need to set an order. I believe there will be buy orders region wide to buy stuff. Most orders will be honest cause orders will be hard to come by.
I plan on setting buy orders at certain Corporation stations which I have high standing too, to get the most out of my orders. --------------------------
Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
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