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Joethelions Caldari Universal Order Utopian Order	Posted - 2009.09.09 05:55:00 - [1] Hey, JTL here. I'd like to talk to you about removing all Tempests from the game. The tempest is a pretty bad ship, and is in dire need of a replacement. It may even be better if Minmatar just have two battleships, because the tempest is not very good. IMO removing the tempest and replacing it with a new ship, or removing the tier 2 minmatar battleship is the best way to go. Sure, it's a bit messy, but obviously the "Tempest Issue" that has been going on for a while now is really hard to fix and it is sucking up a lot of ingame resources. Lag can be reduced by just removing the Tempest from the database. An idea suggested to me by a corpmate would be to replace it with a Minmatar ECM ship. Minmatar don't really have any ECM ships so a scorpion-like tier 2 battle ship would bring a lot of variety to the Minmatar race when you are choosing your battleship. Current tempest owners will have their ship changed into a Minmascorp i have taken the liberty to name "Flying Dragon Raptor" which is a fierce name for a fierce ship replacing the tempest and this will help balance out the battleship line for minmatar. This way people can be more effective in battle. Here is a proposed ship: "Flying Dragon Raptor" Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonus: 10% Bonus to ECM Target Jammer capacitor use per level 30% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per level Slot Layout: 6/7/4 Turret Hardpoints: 6 It would be an armor tanked ship I know its only four low slots but you can fit 2 reps if you want so thats enough to outtank most BS. This ship has alot of synergy because of its low ECM cap and no cap using turrets it can active tank like a mother. these are my ideas, hope you like them. need feedback on tempest, constructive criticism accepted ofc. Thx JTL
IVeige	Posted - 2009.09.09 05:56:00 - [2] Edited by: IVeige on 09/09/2009 05:57:57 ship and modules forum is just a little bit up there you know.... edit : you know we also have a feature and idea discussion channel ! o/
Joethelions Caldari Universal Order Utopian Order	Posted - 2009.09.09 06:03:00 - [3] Originally by: IVeige Edited by: IVeige on 09/09/2009 05:57:57 ship and modules forum is just a little bit up there you know.... edit : you know we also have a feature and idea discussion channel ! o/ this seems like a pretty general discussion Thx JTL
zombiedeadhead Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.09.09 06:04:00 - [4] O brave new world, That has such people in't!
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2009.09.09 08:26:00 - [5] Originally by: zombiedeadhead O brave new world, That has such putzes in't! Fixed. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Oddymandius Minmatar	Posted - 2009.09.09 08:27:00 - [6] The Tempest is fine and I have the untested EFT fittings to prove it.
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice	Posted - 2009.09.09 08:36:00 - [7] Originally by: Oddymandius The Tempest is fine... Ssshh don't say that too loud, or the the horde of people slobbering over (on?) their golden phallic boats will spam the thread up about OMFG TEH LAZERS! *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
Adria MalDoran	Posted - 2009.09.09 08:36:00 - [8] Minmatar have plenty of ewar-ships, their ewar is just different from caldari - they're more into webbing and target painting... Besides, the Tempest has a role that it performs magnificently; Fleet Operations ! To quote a lay-man and put it in your terms : If it ain't broke, don't fix it !
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2009.09.09 08:57:00 - [9] Originally by: Adria MalDoran Besides, the Tempest has a role that it performs magnificently; Fleet Operations ! yes, exactly, its role in fleet operations = dead meat Tempests are called first, because they pop quicker than others...
Oddymandius Minmatar	Posted - 2009.09.09 09:13:00 - [10] Edited by: Oddymandius on 09/09/2009 09:15:42 Originally by: Robert Caldera Tempests are called first, because they pop quicker than others... What range have the fleet engagements you've been involved in been at? Genuine question BTW. EDIT: I mean, were they mostly at sniper range, outside of artillery optimal, or was there a role for BS shooting from 80-100km?

Robert Caldera	Posted - 2009.09.09 09:28:00 - [11] well, if there is a fleet, independetly of their range, tempests die first, unless there is a sniper composition of tempest only at some longer range, but have never seen that since I'm playing eve (some over a year) and contributing to the recent Delve War. There are mostly mixed fleets of any BS, including tempests, which, like I said, are called first and die first. Quote: Time Flux Detected You are going too fast! Wait five minutes and try again. Go back One page \| Go back to forums f*ck the timer!!!
Nova Fox Gallente Novafox Shipyards	Posted - 2009.09.09 09:30:00 - [12] this belongs in features and ideas as its presenting an idea. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 1SEP09
Oddymandius Minmatar	Posted - 2009.09.09 10:09:00 - [13] Originally by: Robert Caldera There are mostly mixed fleets of any BS, including tempests, which, like I said, are called first and die first. Hmm, I wonder why the ship type that everyone fires at first would tend to die first? Clearly it is a problem with the Tempest itself.
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2009.09.09 10:28:00 - [14] the interesting thing is WHY they are fired at first, AFAIK because they have the worst tank of all BS.

CCP Ildoge	Posted - 2009.09.09 12:15:00 - [15] Moved from General Discussion

Tzepesh	Posted - 2009.09.09 12:22:00 - [16] Originally by: Joethelions Hey, JTL here. I'd like to talk to you about removing all Tempests from the game. The tempest is a pretty bad ship, and is in dire need of a replacement. It may even be better if Minmatar just have two battleships, because the tempest is not very good. IMO removing the tempest and replacing it with a new ship, or removing the tier 2 minmatar battleship is the best way to go. Sure, it's a bit messy, but obviously the "Tempest Issue" that has been going on for a while now is really hard to fix and it is sucking up a lot of ingame resources. Lag can be reduced by just removing the Tempest from the database. An idea suggested to me by a corpmate would be to replace it with a Minmatar ECM ship. Minmatar don't really have any ECM ships so a scorpion-like tier 2 battle ship would bring a lot of variety to the Minmatar race when you are choosing your battleship. Current tempest owners will have their ship changed into a Minmascorp i have taken the liberty to name "Flying Dragon Raptor" which is a fierce name for a fierce ship replacing the tempest and this will help balance out the battleship line for minmatar. This way people can be more effective in battle. Here is a proposed ship: "Flying Dragon Raptor" Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonus: 10% Bonus to ECM Target Jammer capacitor use per level 30% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per level Slot Layout: 6/7/4 Turret Hardpoints: 6 It would be an armor tanked ship I know its only four low slots but you can fit 2 reps if you want so thats enough to outtank most BS. This ship has alot of synergy because of its low ECM cap and no cap using turrets it can active tank like a mother. these are my ideas, hope you like them. need feedback on tempest, constructive criticism accepted ofc. Thx JTL OMG just top this general moan about tempest!!! GO and play WOW!
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.09.09 12:31:00 - [17] That's got to be troll. Anyway - I think Scorpions die first usually.
rodensteiner Amarr The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.09.09 12:36:00 - [18] I fully support this idea. I, too, think the Tempest should be replaced with a Battleship with EWAR bonuses, preferably EWAR bonuses different from every EWAR bonus that other Minmatar ships get. After all, it has to be fair, Caldari have the Scorpion, and I want Minmatar to have an EWAR battleship just like Caldari, Gallente, and Amarr and...waitasec... OP is a troll/moron _____________________________________________ I'm horrible at PVP
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2009.09.09 13:34:00 - [19] Err. Just how many forums has this thread been moved to?? Vagrant troll is vagrant.
Shigsy Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2009.09.09 13:40:00 - [20] Saw a reply to a tempest thread by CCP, knew it was too good to be true THIS SIGNATURE IS SMALLER THAN 24000 BYTES Join "C&P" ingame!

Liang Nuren The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.09.09 13:44:00 - [21] Originally by: Shigsy Saw a reply to a tempest thread by CCP, knew it was too good to be true QFT... -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Lijhal Native Freshfood	Posted - 2009.09.09 13:46:00 - [22] threads like this can only be posted by an achura char
haq aan Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.09.09 14:05:00 - [23] real men plays Brutor. Real men whines bout Tempest. Coz real men is just koool.
Pater Peccavi Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.09.09 14:11:00 - [24] Edited by: Pater Peccavi on 09/09/2009 14:13:25 Originally by: Shigsy Saw a reply to a tempest thread by CCP, knew it was too good to be true My thoughts as well. "Why is CCP responding to that one page thread instead of the 30+ page tempest thread?" Once I saw the second post saying the thread should be moved, I knew what to expect. Edit: WTF? Why does my sig say I'm in a Mostly Harmless corp? _________
Tzepesh	Posted - 2009.09.09 14:45:00 - [25] Originally by: Pater Peccavi Edited by: Pater Peccavi on 09/09/2009 14:13:25 Originally by: Shigsy Saw a reply to a tempest thread by CCP, knew it was too good to be true My thoughts as well. "Why is CCP responding to that one page thread instead of the 30+ page tempest thread?" Once I saw the second post saying the thread should be moved, I knew what to expect. Edit: WTF? Why does my sig say I'm in a Mostly Harmless corp? becose the fact that a thread have 30+ pages not tell us that thread is not a looong and boooring and oooold controversed discussion like ooooders and those posts are made buy saaame 20-30 guys which mean 0.001% whatever percent of the EVE players and means nothing. Changing the role of tempest... this idea is totally hilarious HAHAHA. :))) do you think CCP take this for granted? omg we have so many stupid posts. CCP must do something cose we are the majority of real EVE players. THE majority dont whine on forums ... those are real players who adapt and demonstrate their imagination and have fun with this game. No one in my corp ever complained about tempest. they fly it tough. I have a fella who demonstrate us the power of that ship and we were impressed. when i look on forums now.. what do I see??? Bull##it. "smart" guys throwing with numbers. OMG this number is smaller then on that or that ship!! this number must be increaseeed!! cmon CCP dont let us down! PATHETIC!
Aranis Nax Minmatar Seraphim Blades	Posted - 2009.09.09 14:50:00 - [26] what the christ is a dev reply doing in this thread, shoo shoo. Surely you were supposed to show up in that other thread. It must have been a mistake naturally. It's allright we forgive you. ----- My Tempest fix suggestion: -1 high, +1 mid, -1 turret. ROF bonus to 7.5%. Increase maneuverability.
AstroPhobic Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.09.09 14:51:00 - [27] Originally by: Tzepesh Originally by: Pater Peccavi Edited by: Pater Peccavi on 09/09/2009 14:13:25 Originally by: Shigsy Saw a reply to a tempest thread by CCP, knew it was too good to be true My thoughts as well. "Why is CCP responding to that one page thread instead of the 30+ page tempest thread?" Once I saw the second post saying the thread should be moved, I knew what to expect. Edit: WTF? Why does my sig say I'm in a Mostly Harmless corp? becose the fact that a thread have 30+ pages not tell us that thread is not a looong and boooring and oooold controversed discussion like ooooders and those posts are made buy saaame 20-30 guys which mean 0.001% whatever percent of the EVE players and means nothing. Changing the role of tempest... this idea is totally hilarious HAHAHA. :))) do you think CCP take this for granted? omg we have so many stupid posts. CCP must do something cose we are the majority of real EVE players. THE majority dont whine on forums ... those are real players who adapt and demonstrate their imagination and have fun with this game. No one in my corp ever complained about tempest. they fly it tough. I have a fella who demonstrate us the power of that ship and we were impressed. when i look on forums now.. what do I see??? Bull##it. "smart" guys throwing with numbers. OMG this number is smaller then on that or that ship!! this number must be increaseeed!! cmon CCP dont let us down! PATHETIC! I like this guy.
Grann Thefauto Spook Division BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.09.09 15:43:00 - [28] I approve of this just because you used the most stupid buzzword in the english language: "synergy." I look forward to the implementation of this PVP solution to help monetize and expand my customer focused initiatives.
Liang Nuren The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.09.09 15:53:00 - [29] Originally by: Grann Thefauto I approve of this just because you used the most stupid buzzword in the english language: "synergy." I look forward to the implementation of this PVP solution to help monetize and expand my customer focused initiatives. I look forward to leveraging this synergistic monetization for customer focused initiatives. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Tyler Lowe DROW Org Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2009.09.09 17:26:00 - [30] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Grann Thefauto I approve of this just because you used the most stupid buzzword in the english language: "synergy." I look forward to the implementation of this PVP solution to help monetize and expand my customer focused initiatives. I look forward to leveraging this synergistic monetization for customer focused initiatives. -Liang

James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.09.09 18:06:00 - [31] Clearly a Minmatar Ewar battleship would have a target painting bonus, not an ECM bonus.
foobarx	Posted - 2009.09.09 18:12:00 - [32] Originally by: Robert Caldera Originally by: Adria MalDoran Besides, the Tempest has a role that it performs magnificently; Fleet Operations ! yes, exactly, its role in fleet operations = dead meat Tempests are called first, because they pop quicker than others... Seems kind of silly to primary the BS with the lowest DPS.
fab24 Gallente Order of Anarchy The Laughing Men	Posted - 2009.09.09 18:56:00 - [33] Originally by: Joethelions Hey, JTL here. I'd like to talk to you about removing all Tempests from the game. The tempest is a pretty bad ship, and is in dire need of a replacement. It may even be better if Minmatar just have two battleships, because the tempest is not very good. IMO removing the tempest and replacing it with a new ship, or removing the tier 2 minmatar battleship is the best way to go. Sure, it's a bit messy, but obviously the "Tempest Issue" that has been going on for a while now is really hard to fix and it is sucking up a lot of ingame resources. Lag can be reduced by just removing the Tempest from the database. An idea suggested to me by a corpmate would be to replace it with a Minmatar ECM ship. Minmatar don't really have any ECM ships so a scorpion-like tier 2 battle ship would bring a lot of variety to the Minmatar race when you are choosing your battleship. Current tempest owners will have their ship changed into a Minmascorp i have taken the liberty to name "Flying Dragon Raptor" which is a fierce name for a fierce ship replacing the tempest and this will help balance out the battleship line for minmatar. This way people can be more effective in battle. Here is a proposed ship: "Flying Dragon Raptor" Minmatar Battleship Skill Bonus: 10% Bonus to ECM Target Jammer capacitor use per level 30% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength per level Slot Layout: 6/7/4 Turret Hardpoints: 6 It would be an armor tanked ship I know its only four low slots but you can fit 2 reps if you want so thats enough to outtank most BS. This ship has alot of synergy because of its low ECM cap and no cap using turrets it can active tank like a mother. these are my ideas, hope you like them. need feedback on tempest, constructive criticism accepted ofc. Thx JTL Falcon/scorpion alt that want a new toy and bored to see scorpion navy isn't a ecm boat ? other than that matars are not made for ECM... they are made for...for... nothing, ccp give them some love! Trolling is not permitted on the forum - we encourage threads that discuss issues in a constructive and spirited atmosphere. < lmfao...
Andrea Griffin	Posted - 2009.09.09 19:43:00 - [34] Originally by: Joethelions Insanity. I'm not sure if this was posted out of ignorance, or simply an attempt to troll.
Joethelions Caldari Universal Order Utopian Order	Posted - 2009.09.09 20:22:00 - [35] Originally by: James Lyrus Clearly a Minmatar Ewar battleship would have a target painting bonus, not an ECM bonus. target painters are dumb i think best ewar for minmatar to have would be ecm cause they dont have an ecm ship yet so were adding versatility to minmatar
Psiri	Posted - 2009.09.09 22:33:00 - [36] Originally by: Grann Thefauto I approve of this just because you used the most stupid buzzword in the english language: "synergy." I look forward to the implementation of this PVP solution to help monetize and expand my customer focused initiatives. Synergy is far from a buzzword, if anything buzzword is a buzzword, so you could just have left it at that. I honestly can't tell who's trolling and who isn't anymore, either way OP needs his posting certificate revoked.
Liang Nuren The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.09.09 22:48:00 - [37] Originally by: Psiri Synergy is far from a buzzword Yes... it is. It really, really is. Tell the truth: are you a manager at your job, and do you find uses for the word synergy at work? -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Tiffis	Posted - 2009.09.09 22:48:00 - [38] Originally by: Joethelions "Flying Dragon Raptor" Lolz you be trolling.
Manu Hermanus FaDoyToy	Posted - 2009.09.09 22:49:00 - [39] Originally by: Psiri Originally by: Grann Thefauto I approve of this just because you used the most stupid buzzword in the english language: "synergy." I look forward to the implementation of this PVP solution to help monetize and expand my customer focused initiatives. Synergy is far from a buzzword, if anything buzzword is a buzzword, so you could just have left it at that. I honestly can't tell who's trolling and who isn't anymore, either way OP needs his posting certificate revoked. buzzword is a 2.0 (two point oh) buzzword, and an important part of the paradigm shift powered by thinktanks
Echo Gemini Minmatar Love My Darkness	Posted - 2009.09.10 00:03:00 - [40] Hey JTL from there, Just **** off with all your ecm-missile minnie ship that is a 4lows-armor tanking! You are a idiot with an idiotic ideea! ktnksbye, To JTL

Shereza	Posted - 2009.09.10 02:46:00 - [41] Actually, I think I could support an electronic warfare battleship for the Minmatar. EVE has a lot of balancing acts going on in it. Cases in point, Amarr and Gallente ships are primarily gun ships and are the only two races with "drone boats" in their lineups. Caldari and Minmatar ships are also the only ships that boast any serious amount of missile firepower in their T1 lineup while also being the only two races that are often handicapped by split weapon systems. I would not, however, support any Minmatar EW ship getting bonuses to ECM. Webbers and painters are their stock in trade and it's webber and painter bonuses that belong on any EW battleship they get. Perhaps a 15-20% per level range bonus to webbers and a 5-7.5% per level bonus to painter strength. The worst thing that could happen would be that a tempest with an overloaded Tobias' webber drops some poor schlup's speed by 60% at around 52km and then gets primaried when everyone realizes that that person's got an officer webber fit that cost as much as 20 or more tempests. Actually, that doesn't sound that bad, at least not for the people who aren't flying around with that webber... ____________________ Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm THE KLINGONS	Posted - 2009.09.10 03:13:00 - [42] Originally by: Manu Hermanus Originally by: Psiri Originally by: Grann Thefauto I approve of this just because you used the most stupid buzzword in the english language: "synergy." I look forward to the implementation of this PVP solution to help monetize and expand my customer focused initiatives. Synergy is far from a buzzword, if anything buzzword is a buzzword, so you could just have left it at that. I honestly can't tell who's trolling and who isn't anymore, either way OP needs his posting certificate revoked. buzzword is a 2.0 (two point oh) buzzword, and an important part of the paradigm shift powered by thinktanks I have performed some social bookmarking and i must be honest, i have challanged our comfort zones and feel i have found a critical path to taking the initiative and reaching out for our respective low hanging fruits. if we wanted to take a solution-oriented stance on this we would shift the paradigm away from stale 'in-the-box' dependence on CCP solutions and leverage a moving forward mentality embracing the opportunity of an aggressively pilot based response. strategizing a comprehensive compilation of action items is crucial for a tempest-centric success chain. synergies will me maximized for a user focused solution which, if we adopt self-leadership and stretch our goals, we will find a revolutionary tangent upon which we can re-brand the Tempest, thus enabling us to close the loop. the time frame for this is task oriented so estimations regarding the deliverables of our targeted orientation are yet to be discovered. rest assured this is not a blue sky venture but more of a strategic alliance of key players to smoke test and pass the baton ultimitely allowing for a self developed sweet spot which we will be able to bring to the table. this paradigm shift will decompose our architecture allowing for integration and empowerment of price point high performance content providers be advised we will touch base through this rapid prototyping. my people will talk to your people. /tps reports ---------- Hey, sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cause I wouldn't eat the filthy mother*****r
Liang Nuren The Hull Miners Union Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2009.09.10 03:31:00 - [43] Originally by: HankMurphy I have performed some social bookmarking and i must be honest, i have challanged our comfort zones and feel i have found a critical path to taking the initiative and reaching out for our respective low hanging fruits. if we wanted to take a solution-oriented stance on this we would shift the paradigm away from stale 'in-the-box' dependence on CCP solutions and leverage a moving forward mentality embracing the opportunity of an aggressively pilot based response. strategizing a comprehensive compilation of action items is crucial for a tempest-centric success chain. synergies will me maximized for a user focused solution which, if we adopt self-leadership and stretch our goals, we will find a revolutionary tangent upon which we can re-brand the Tempest, thus enabling us to close the loop. the time frame for this is task oriented so estimations regarding the deliverables of our targeted orientation are yet to be discovered. rest assured this is not a blue sky venture but more of a strategic alliance of key players to smoke test and pass the baton ultimitely allowing for a self developed sweet spot which we will be able to bring to the table. this paradigm shift will decompose our architecture allowing for integration and empowerment of price point high performance content providers be advised we will touch base through this rapid prototyping. my people will talk to your people. /tps reports -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Grann Thefauto Spook Division BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2009.09.10 05:36:00 - [44] Originally by: HankMurphy a whole lot of awesome /tps reports You sir have just made me want to punch my monitor. Well played, I concede to your web 2.0 market dominance stragetizations.


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