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Luminus Aardokay
Gallente
SI Radio
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Posted - 2009.09.18 10:47:00 -
[1]
With the release of Apocrypha we've seen corporations who took upon colonizing w-space, and found out how important Bookmark usage to navigation is. For most of those corps the daily routine is a scan of their home system, bookmarking sites and wormhole exits and then share the bookmarks with the rest of the corporation through the usage of a hangar in a POS.
However, this approach is highly inefficient as copying of bookmarks becomes tedious (Move the bookmark to your ship's cargo hold, transfer it to People and Places, then make a copy from your bookmarks back to the corp hangar) and the information presented on the bookmarks themselves while in a container or hangar is practically non-existent, even if you check the info of a bookmark leading corps to devise naming schemes for their bookmarks that relay the information lacking by the game to the corpmates.
Finally, corp bookmark management will become even more tedious as the preliminary patch notes for Dominion state that bookmarks will no longer be allowed to be stored in corp hangars in POSes.
A suggestion there would be a new Bookmark handling mechanism for shared corporation use, similar to the saved corp ship fittings one.
- A corp role for "Corp Bookmarks" access is created with View/Modify permissions
- The "Shared Corp Bookmarks" (SCB) tool would work pretty much like the People and Places (P&P) one.
- SCB should support folders and subfolders for organization purposes
- SCB entries should indicate time of the bookmark's creation as well as the system they've been created in (much like the P&P tool does) and finally the first creator of the Bookmark.
- When adding a bookmark, a user should have the option to add a description for the bookmark (much like what happens with every other user transaction), which would be visible if a person hovers the mouse over the bookmark in SCB or P&P.
- Right clicking on a bookmark in SCB should have an additional "COPY TO" function which would open a tree of the user's P&P bookmark folders to copy to, much like the tree of available chat channels when a person right click on a player and invites them to one. A destination should also be "SHIP HANGAR" if the user is not in a pod.
- The same functionality should be implemented on bookmarks found in a user's P&P, such as COPY TO -> CORP BOOKMARKS -> ALL BOOKMARKS or COPY TO -> CORP BOOKMARKS -> USER DEFINED FOLDER
- Dragging a bookmark into a chat channel should create a link to the bookmark. Pilots who click on it get an information window with the bookmark's details (name, coordinates, date added, system, description, first creator). Right clicking on the link, should pop the usual functions along with the COPY TO one.
This bookmark management idea ties in perfectly with the game lore as well, since bookmarks are nothing more than an encapsulated set of information including vector coordinates and textual descriptions are entities that can be transmitted through communication channels and there is no real need for them to be exchanged as physical items. In fact, (and this being an educated guess here) if bookmark management and sharing got totally disengaged from bookmarks being treated as inventory items it could help with the stress the database undergoes when bookmark instances are created as items (Need for speed initiative anyone?).
Your thoughts?
Split Infinity Radio
Get Loud, Get Mental
http://www.siradio.fm |
Felix Macey
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Posted - 2009.09.18 11:20:00 -
[2]
One of the best ideas I've seen on here for ages. Gets my vote o/
Opening a container with 20+ bookmarks in makes tranquillity cry 
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megali tsoula
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Posted - 2009.09.18 11:28:00 -
[3]
Edited by: megali tsoula on 18/09/2009 11:31:01
Edited by: megali tsoula on 18/09/2009 11:29:19
Avesome idea...The currently way with the bookmarks is a living hell and believe it or not its my daily headache when i log at EvE. I wish there was that tool that organises bookmarks. Very good thinking luminous.
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Buran Gromazekin
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Posted - 2009.09.18 11:39:00 -
[4]
Vote for this idea.
Author described much detailed suggestion then me here: http://www.eveonline.com/iNgameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1179809&page=1
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Quivering Palm
Caldari
SI Radio
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Posted - 2009.09.18 11:44:00 -
[5]
Needless to say this will be purely awesome if it can coinside with Dominion launch - when bookmarks can no longer be placed in POS structures!
Not to mention the confusion of various naming schemes I've seen being used by us and other corporations, trying to name the bookmarks with names such as:
J124534|C2|RET-123|1807|Back to PR
or
PR|CN|OMG-911|1806|CCP-US
^^ and it's all about Need for Speed for servers right? Given the amount of time it takes to look in a corp hangar full of bookmarks - this must be quite a load on the servers too! |
Sedilis
Lead Farmers
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Posted - 2009.09.18 12:24:00 -
[6]
Yes this is a headache for my corp. Its a pain when you think you've got a full copy of the wormhole bookmarks for that day only to get a few systems down the pipe and find you've got one missing 
o/ one more vote.
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Xiin Dalir
Minmatar
Savage Gecko
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
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Posted - 2009.09.18 12:40:00 -
[7]
This is great, gets my vote.
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Therona
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Posted - 2009.09.18 14:05:00 -
[8]
Great idea!
No more BM shuffling thru your cargo and no more missing BM's...
"Align To" feature would be great :D
Gets my vote!!!
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Squizz Caphinator
First Flying Wing Inc
Primary.
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Posted - 2009.09.18 17:00:00 -
[9]
Having lived in w-space I understand the bookmark pains all too well. I fully support the OP's suggestions.
Such features won't make it into Dominion though, the development has progressed too far to add these great ideas on such short notice.
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Nireen
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Posted - 2009.09.18 21:31:00 -
[10]
I would love to see this implemented, it would be great!
good idea's!
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XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2009.09.18 21:37:00 -
[11]
/signed. Even if its just so me and the alts have it a bit easier...
_____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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TechPalatinus
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Posted - 2009.09.18 21:40:00 -
[12]
Myself and my corp have been living in wspace since apocrypha was released and I have to admit the bm system is one of the corps all time pet peeves. I for one would more than welcome a better system.
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Merinid Dormer
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Posted - 2009.09.18 22:22:00 -
[13]
Exeptional idea. covers all aspects of the issue. It would be really cool to see it included into the new expantion. Good job Luminus
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Minchurra
Caldari
Shadow Veil Industrial
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Posted - 2009.09.18 22:48:00 -
[14]
Awesome. /signed
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Adunh Slavy
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Posted - 2009.09.19 02:14:00 -
[15]
Yep, need better sharing of this kind of data, be it book marks or some sort of shared entries in the journal, as in this idea ...
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1172178
The Real Space Initiative - V5 (Forum Link)
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Estar Tarns
SI Radio
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Posted - 2009.09.21 17:06:00 -
[16]
Agree, this is a must.
If CCP are going to remove the bookmarks from hangars, they will almost effectivly make it harder, if not too hard, for smaller corps in lower class levels to even help each other out with the most basic things as hauling from a site or another wormhole.
I am stunned to see how hard CCP hammers down on wormhole dwellers without compensating with anything.
I do hope they are working on something to compensate for this.
»»»»»»»»»»»»
Willtanking - I am tanking by the force of my will to survive! |
Zarxoniuz
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Posted - 2009.09.21 17:51:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Zarxoniuz on 21/09/2009 17:53:46
supporting the thread starter.
Thinking about additional ideas - It'll be cool if bookmark locations would be displayed in space as an icons. (Like gates, planets, moons...)
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Grumples McGee
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Posted - 2009.09.21 18:09:00 -
[18]
I support anything that involves improving bookmark management.
We use bookmark containers now and it's a pain. If nothing else, a container with 30 bookmarks takes like 2 minutes to load and display its contents. That can't be good for server CPU usage.
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Syfa
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Posted - 2009.09.24 07:14:00 -
[19]
Signed, will make logistics *much* easier on wormhole operating corps.
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Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
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Posted - 2009.09.24 08:42:00 -
[20]
/signed
I had 'bookmarks' listed on an ideas list for me to post about in this forum when I had some time. You beat me too it.
After all, a Bookmark is just some co-ordinates, if I can send a text based message to another ship, why cant I send a bookmark.
As a main + alt player who explores WHs, I believe this would be an improvement to the game!!!!
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Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer
"I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!"
------------------------ |
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Nagus LeGrand
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Posted - 2009.09.25 07:12:00 -
[21]
/signed
Yes, please! This would make corp bookmark management SO much easier.
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MacMasters
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Posted - 2009.09.25 07:34:00 -
[22]
bookmarks should be shared easily between anyone as a rule. in game and in an rpg sense they're saved 3d coords. how hard is it to tell someone 3 numbers?
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Ivana Twinkle
Amarr
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
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Posted - 2009.09.30 07:09:00 -
[23]
this is a great OP
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DMac88
Caldari
PROject Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.30 08:58:00 -
[24]
/signed
nice idea
BRING IT ON CCP |
Xenon Vertillia
Gallente
Polytechnique Gallenteenne
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Posted - 2009.09.30 09:04:00 -
[25]
Always thought the Bookmarking system needed a overhaul, With WH it really does, and this would be a nice solution...
_____________________________________
Honor and Prosperity is the Xenon way! |
Jaggins
Remedy Squadron
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Posted - 2009.10.01 04:49:00 -
[26]
/signed. This would be a good issue for future CSM to push. Even better, CCP could just implement it because it is a great idea!
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Reggie Stoneloader
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.10.01 06:11:00 -
[27]
As an alternative to instawarp bookmarks, this was a good idea. In the context of W-Space, it's spectacular. Signed in triplicate. Sharing navigational data among corporation members is something that would benefit every level of cooperative play in EvE.
Crusades: Security Status |
Seiver D'amross
Subach-Tech
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Posted - 2009.10.01 07:28:00 -
[28]
/signed
this is a win idea
_____________________________________________________
I shal stand tall and shake the heavens with my power |
xenermorph
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Posted - 2009.10.02 15:51:00 -
[29]
/agree
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Serge Bastana
Gallente
GWA Corp
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Posted - 2009.10.02 15:52:00 -
[30]
Have a /signed
------------------------------------------------
You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag.
Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited! |
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Song Li
MinmaTire Corporation LTD
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Posted - 2009.10.02 20:46:00 -
[31]
Pretty bang on Luminus. I'd also like to see Divisions added so you can select access levels within the corp/alliance.
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Eowarian D
Gallente
SI Radio
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Posted - 2009.10.06 08:31:00 -
[32]
This is what I call forward thinking!
I would love to see this implemented into a future upgrade of Eve.
This would be awesome and finally something handy to handle bookmarks.
You have my vote, Luminus!
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Wonko
Aperture Harmonics
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Posted - 2009.10.06 08:41:00 -
[33]
I havent seen this be posted yet, but please ffs, allow a squad, wing, or fleet leader to warp their respective group to a bookmark at a certain distance, say 20km. As it stands now, fleet commanders can only warp their fleet to stations, planets, etc etc at a far off distance, but not BM's.. No clue why.
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Eowarian D
Gallente
SI Radio
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Posted - 2009.10.07 11:30:00 -
[34]
 Originally by: Wonko
I havent seen this be posted yet, but please ffs, allow a squad, wing, or fleet leader to warp their respective group to a bookmark at a certain distance, say 20km. As it stands now, fleet commanders can only warp their fleet to stations, planets, etc etc at a far off distance, but not BM's.. No clue why.
Are you sure this can't be done?
Maybe I'm wrong but I thought I could do this with a bookmarked asteroid or something.
I'll have to check this evening.
How can we draw the attention of CCP on this?
I'm almost certain they are not even aware of this!
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Rokaan
Caldari
Dark Nebula Academy
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Posted - 2009.10.08 11:55:00 -
[35]
/signed
This deserves a slot on page one *bump*
It's long amazed me that computer science in New Eden is so poorly developed that pod pilots are forced to exchange critical navigation data via passing notes to each other.
Think of the trees! Oh wait..
(Also that POS towers clearly run using something about as sophisticated as a pocket calculator with no multitasking capability whatsoever /offtopic)
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Eshinto Sidahan
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Posted - 2009.10.08 13:29:00 -
[36]
/Signed |
Luminus Aardokay
Gallente
SI Radio
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Posted - 2009.10.09 15:20:00 -
[37]
Slight /bump just to add Wonko's suggestion to the initial post.
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Larg Kellein
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.10.15 17:33:00 -
[38]
As a member of a non-wormhole, but highly nomadic corporation, I endorse this idea.
In other words... /signed.
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Bojo Prinz
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Posted - 2009.10.16 14:39:00 -
[39]
/signed
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IamBeastx
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.10.17 12:00:00 -
[40]
Signed, agreed and praised
Bookmarks in eve are in need of a serious overhaul.
Anyone who regularly uses bookmarks (WH and roaming corps especially) can understand the pain the current bookmark system causes.
http://iambeastx.mybrute.com |
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derHorst
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Posted - 2009.10.17 17:46:00 -
[41]
signed!
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Reddwarf75
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Posted - 2009.10.17 22:21:00 -
[42]
I second that idea, sharing bookmarks is one of the most ponderous tasks ive come across in eve so far.
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Geema
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Posted - 2009.10.17 22:22:00 -
[43]
Signed
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Jonas Rock
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Posted - 2009.10.17 22:23:00 -
[44]
Great ideas, Signed.
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TeaDaze
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.10.17 22:24:00 -
[45]
Shared bookmarks would be awesome and would likely remove a large number of bookmark items from the database.
It would need some kind of division support for security but I don't think that would be too tricky.
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Bel Amar
Amarr
Children of Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.10.17 22:40:00 -
[46]
Great idea
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Luminus Aardokay
Gallente
SI Radio
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Posted - 2009.10.27 12:52:00 -
[47]
Slight bump to bring this to the spotlight again. Bookmarks people!
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Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices
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Posted - 2009.10.27 13:00:00 -
[48]
/signed
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Ethan Bellator
Dominus Imperium
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Posted - 2009.11.11 22:35:00 -
[49]
Amazing idea.
/sign
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Xander XacXorien
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Posted - 2009.11.12 02:31:00 -
[50]
Bookmarks relate directly to solar system maps.
Rather than having to copy bookmarks why not just have them contained in either solar or constellation maps ? If they do actually have to be passed around by hand.
But wouldn't it be better to have either a command centre or command craft that could coordinate book marks within again a solar system or constellation dynamically ?
This would be similar to an EWACS or a command and control centre in a battle field (POS module and capital ship ?)
The command module would update all ships with existing bookmarks and allow coordination of scanning in systems/constellations by assigning orders to fleet members - giving them sectors to scan and dynamically uploading results.
You could take this one step further by allowing orders to be assigned to bookmarks - eg rally points, squad commander locations, wing commander locations, fleet commanders and their associated orders.
This could then be taken a further step forward by assigning small bonuses by following the orders assigned to the bookmark - for example warping to a repair point would decrease your warp out time. Attack orders would decrease your lock time to specified targets - if they were still in the same place ?
It would also allow coordination of targets and possible release points for bombs.
I would not expect the scanner of the solar system to show bookmarks interactively - but an update of once per 30 seconds to a minute might be acceptable ?
The maps could even be contained within secure communication devices,, which could be stolen from destroyed enemy vessels - prolly taking things way too far.
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Xander XacXorien
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Posted - 2009.11.12 02:50:00 -
[51]
You could also add other information like ship scans to the information held within the scanner, roid field scans and cargo hold scans.
A new field of information warfare could be opened up with the command ships having the ability to scan ship movements within a certain number of light years via a scanning pulse, similar to the existing scanning system. BUT you would need other scan pulse beacons setup to gain triangulation - the downside being that all pulse scans would be readily sensed by any ship scanner. Meaning both the command ship and the beacons be easily shown on the scanner, but exactly wether the beacon is a commandship or just a beacon would not be known - until it was warped to. And then there would be counter information warfare by opposing scan pulses.
Might be a bit of a nightmare though.
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Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:28:00 -
[52]
Shared corp bookmarks could serve many purposes, however bookmarks are nerfed in copying because of the server load in both copying and storage of bookmarks. This was obviously way out of control in the 'old days', resulting in the warp to 0 feature we all see today.
An Alternative approach that might compensate for both server load and storage is to provide anchorable beacons. There would need to be limitations on duration of placement eg. if they were expired just like cans after 30 days, that would also resolve the clutter/server load problem.
≡v≡ Strategic Maps in Eve-Online Store | eve-maps.com |
Eowarian D
SI Radio
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Posted - 2009.11.23 10:04:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Serenity Steele
...
An Alternative approach that might compensate for both server load and storage is to provide anchorable beacons. There would need to be limitations on duration of placement eg. if they were expired just like cans after 30 days, that would also resolve the clutter/server load problem.
Tbh, I don't wanna see this happen.
What if you are running missions (i.e.) in a distance solar system, and you return home after you reached the required LPs/ISK/standing after a period of (let's take your example) 30 days, all you bookmarks in your home system will be vanished.
Not such a good idea...
And what would you see in the overview? Only your bookmark/beacons? Those of the entire corporation? If everyone add some bookmark in the same solar system...
I guess this will be an overload...
I still vote for the system Luminus brought in.
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Nofonno
Amarr
Aperture Harmonics
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Posted - 2009.11.23 11:12:00 -
[54]
I fully support/endorse this product.
If I'm not muchly mistaken, something of this sort has been hinted at at Fanfest two/three years ago(?) when they spoke of WIS station offices and corporate shops, corporate maps and tactical views... Pity it was not to be back then.
---
A scientist must be an optimist at heart - to have the strength to rally against a chorus of voices saying "it cannot be done". |
Eowarian D
SI Radio
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Posted - 2009.11.25 16:09:00 -
[55]
/bumping it back to the top. 
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RiotRick
Black-Sun
Pitch Black Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.26 00:03:00 -
[56]
/signed
Something needs to change with the managing the bookmarks.
I have a different solution as well. Which might be easier to implement.
In essence a bookmark is nothing more than a set of coordinates. What if you could present these coordinates in textual way. A text which you could post on your corp forum, or in a mailing list in the sexy new mail client.
Now when you get a set of coordinates you use the feature create bookmark, you paste the coordinates and voila your done.
Only two simple actions would have to be implemented and you can share the bookmarks with already existing systems.
--
The future is black.
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Pian Shu
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Tread Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.26 00:35:00 -
[57]
Either the original proposal or RiotRick's solution would be great. Why do these things have to be physical objects? Why not BOTH the original proposal and RiotRick's solution?
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Bret Darklace
Caldari
Nova Expeditionary Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.01 23:32:00 -
[58]
/signed
The largest problem my corp has with living in w-space is managing bookmarks daily - not fuel logistics, not sleepers, but the "simple" act of creating and sharing up to 60 new bookmarks every day amongst all members of the corp who are active on w-space ops that day. Bad enough that we can only copy up to 5 at a time, bad enough that someone has to run out to k-space and create contracts to share bookmarks to any corp members that are on "the outside" for whatever reason that day, not to mention the little idiosyncrasies in naming used among our various probing pilots - but now with Dominion we cannot even place bookmarks inside the corp hanger. The number of cans anchored around the POSs is now going to increase even more...I wholeheartedly endorse and request a bookmark system that is as easily sharable to other corpmates (and other players in general) as the current fittings system (note: the simple ability to link to the "show info" on a bookmark and from that link, create a copy of the bookmark for yourself would be an adequate solution for both intra-corp and inter-corp bookmark transfer - especially as we already use a mailing list shared between a few different corps active in w-space operations in order to share scan-id results each day...)
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Alexander Vallen
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.02 01:23:00 -
[59]
Supported.
We've only just started to explore WH space and this is a major issue.
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uhox
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Posted - 2009.12.04 08:41:00 -
[60]
I fully agree .. im old player and yet still remember the horror of the bookmarks in 0 space.... 15km behind the gate from every entry and every safespot :O
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Lemmy Kravitz
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Posted - 2009.12.04 08:57:00 -
[61]
I sign on behalf of the alliance.
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Parmala Udoni
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Posted - 2009.12.04 18:17:00 -
[62]
/signed
My turn to sing the refrain: Our corp lives in a wormhole too, the current bookmark system was a nightmare *before* CCP daftly took away the ability to put them in a corp hangar, now it's just worse... blah blah blah.
Only new thing I'd like to add is that bookmarks to wormholes should automatically expire after 48 or 72 hours (because no wormhole can last longer than that, iirc), but other bookmarks should most definitely *not* expire, ever.
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quiet monkey
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Posted - 2009.12.07 12:04:00 -
[63]
/signed
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Papyri Fervens
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Posted - 2009.12.07 12:05:00 -
[64]
/signed
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Bertholemew Roberts
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Posted - 2009.12.07 12:07:00 -
[65]
/signed
(hey I get 3 CSM votes, so this petition gets 3 signs)
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Slinkus Gallentus
Gallente
Lysergic Spacetime Dimension
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Posted - 2009.12.07 20:46:00 -
[66]
/signed
cheers
"Life is not one big joke. Life is 40,000 little jokes all lined up" |
Keith F
Caldari
United ALT Forces
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Posted - 2009.12.08 12:31:00 -
[67]
/signed
Also what about a BM timer for Wh bm's. the ability to make BM and while naming it tick
2hr = wrecks/cans
16/24hr = WH gates
7day = Wh sites
permanent = all the above or everything else
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Eowarian D
SI Radio
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Posted - 2009.12.10 11:23:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Keith F
Also what about a BM timer for Wh bm's. the ability to make BM and while naming it ticks
2hr = wrecks/cans
16/24hr = WH gates
7day = Wh sites
permanent = all the above or everything else
I really like this idea! Thanks for the input Keith!
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Arran Ramir
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Posted - 2009.12.10 11:37:00 -
[69]
Yes from someone who makes a living out of making BM's, this idear gets my full support..
i have atm bout 20 systems mapped out, plus the odd WH, totally over 3000 BM's wich alliance members regulary wants copies of for FC's and such, wich is a misery to do so.. Try coping them with max 5 BM's to copy at the time..
Really the need of a more efficient BM system is really needed
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Betid
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Posted - 2009.12.11 18:07:00 -
[70]
Signed
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Hella Melville
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Posted - 2009.12.11 21:36:00 -
[71]
This needs to happen.
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Eurzadahn
Gallente
Tenichigo Kaigun
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Posted - 2009.12.11 22:29:00 -
[72]
/supported
---------------------------------------------
Eurzadahn
Sovereign & Founder,
Tenichigo Kaigun
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Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2009.12.11 22:43:00 -
[73]
I've been bleating about this for years...
Signed!!!
----
I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
Prisoner 257
Amarr
Rage For Order
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.12.18 21:32:00 -
[74]
Myself and the other 257s in game wholeheartedly agree and support this idea.
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DOC Minor
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Posted - 2010.01.31 17:44:00 -
[75]
LOVE LOVE LOVE this idea
bookmark cans suck
and
when scanning,
once a location is "ignored" it should STAY that way, as opposed to every time a new login happens, you have to go through the list AGAIN and re-ignore, comparing to what's already BM'ed 
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