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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.19 14:56:00 -
[1]
When the original Devs created the different races and ship classes, they ensured that there is a great variety in weapon types, a rich diversity in ways to apply damage to your enemy. They made missiles, guns and drone ships, that had a different approach in damage output and precision mechanics.
The new Devs however seem to have a different agenda. They oppose the concept of variety and diversity. For example they brought missiles in line with turrets, combined the speed and size factors into one formula, so that missiles lost their unique performance against smaller/faster targets, that distinguished them from turrets.
Their next project are drone ships. The idea of Gallente drone ships, that you can be effective against ships of a smaller class, seems to be a thorn in their side. They are about to nerf the Moros, which won't use it's drone bonus out of siege anymore, because "it's not supposed to be effective against sub-capital ships". The next ship might be the Dominix, which is a battleship and will get the drone bonus limited only to heavy drones, so that it can't kill ships of a smaller class effectively. At the end everything will be uniform, and there will be only one ship for each class at a time, that makes sense: the so called FOTM, everything else will be inferior. Is this the Eve we want to play, where everything is the same, with no room for diversity or unique ships ? Say no to that new equalisation tendency, say no to the Moros nerf. Vote here : http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1179964.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.19 14:58:00 -
[2]
"moros nerf" lol.
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
foobarx
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Posted - 2009.09.19 15:59:00 -
[3]
There's no indication the devs are planning to nerf the Domi. Quite to the contrary - the new faction Domi is quite overpowered.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2009.09.19 17:21:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
They are about to nerf the Moros, which won't use it's drone bonus out of siege anymore, because "it's not supposed to sit outside a station enjoying godmode against sub-capital ships".
FYP.
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Shereza
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Posted - 2009.09.19 18:28:00 -
[5]
I was going to post something intelligent and well thought out in this thread but I'm too tired and the idea that the relegation of the moros' "I can make heavy drones better than fighters and do almost as much remote DPS as a carrier" bonus to siege mode is a bad thing is so totally boggling my mind that I'm having problems thinking straight on this issue.
It's simply that stunning that people think that having a dreadnought capable of doing up to a touch over over 1100 rDPS with bay space for four wings of heavy drones is perfectly fine when the next best ship can only do up to 317 rDPS and only has the bay space for two wings.
Maybe I've been reading GameFAQs.com too much but I seriously hope this is a troll thread. ____________________
Minmatar in Fantasy or Duct Tape Goes Medieval. |
Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.19 19:03:00 -
[6]
The Moros nerf is just an example how things are getting equalised. It was a unique ship for over 3 years, now with the new equalisation agenda it has to lose it's unique role for no real reason, nothing new happened in Eve, that asks for this change.
That's the direction things are currently taking. Think of the racial training differences that existed a while ago, now everyone has the same attributes, no differences anymore. The changes of ships is facing the same direction. If you make the Moros like the other turret dreads, you'll have direct performance comparison, and a discussion how the same weapon system is worse than on revelation. So the stats will be adjusted in the long term. At the end the only diffrence between ships will be the damage type (kin/therm vs em/therm), no genuine characteristics that make Eve rich in choices. The Devs think they fix some balance problem with this equalisation, but in fact they remove the richness and diversity of ships and roles that they can be use for.
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Rordan D'Kherr
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.09.19 21:09:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Rordan D''Kherr on 19/09/2009 21:11:06 Say no to equalization, crosstraining ftw.
Train up for a Rev
So basicalley: Yes, Yakia is right. And it's a shame, this general trend.
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Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
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Posted - 2009.09.19 21:12:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
The next ship might be the Dominix, which is a battleship and will get the drone bonus limited only to heavy drones, so that it can't kill ships of a smaller class effectively.
Awesome idea. Any vote for it?
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2009.09.19 22:42:00 -
[9]
I love how you imply this huge overarching trend from exactly two points of data, both of which are disputable.
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Stuart Price
Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.09.20 01:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Kadesh Priestess
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
The next ship might be the Dominix, which is a battleship and will get the drone bonus limited only to heavy drones, so that it can't kill ships of a smaller class effectively.
Awesome idea. Any vote for it?
I LIKE this. Size-based drone bonuses!
Frigate drone-boats get bonuses to light drones. Cruiser and BC drone-boats get bonuses the med drones. Battleships get bonuses to heavy and sentry drones.
I like this a lot actually, hell it could actually BOOST the Ishkur since they could replace the drone-bay bonus with a damage/hitpoint bonus.
"But my Domi would no longer murder frigates in two seconds" - No, it wouldn't. You'd need to web/neut it and wait for a bit longer (because drone ships never pack multiple neuts...). Still better odds than trying to shoot it with turrets though...
"But drones can be destroyed!" - all the more reason not to rely on them and fit some other weapons yes? Hell, boost the ships where needed to compensate.
I really AM starting to like this.
ps. Yes I do fly droneboats and have my Gila all ready and waiting for its day in the sun. Putting the 'irate' into 'Pirate' |
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.09.20 01:37:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 20/09/2009 01:37:33
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba The next ship might be the Dominix, which is a battleship and will get the drone bonus limited only to heavy drones, so that it can't kill ships of a smaller class effectively.
If I were still a CEO, I'd have already decced you so I could gank you repeatedly for opening your mouth and giving CCP ideas. If you're going to complain about a nerf, think about what you say before you spout off.
And to the "Moros nerf makes perfect sense" - only problem is that you can't engage support effectively while in siege (lol, locktime), and aside from the OOS drone bonus it is quite a bit worse than every other turret dread with respect to damage, tank, range, and having 1/4 to 1/3 of its total DPS destructable (and no, it doesn't outdamage any other dread now except in siege blaster lolfits). If CCP fixes the Moros' actual capital/POS warfare to bring it in line with other dreads or finds some way to let it effectively leverage drones while in siege, great! Unfortunately, it took 8 pages and one bull**** dev reply to even extract an inkling of this actual fix to the Moros if it's out-of-line, hence the many angry nerf threads. ----
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Pater Peccavi
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.09.20 03:27:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kadesh Priestess
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
The next ship might be the Dominix, which is a battleship and will get the drone bonus limited only to heavy drones, so that it can't kill ships of a smaller class effectively.
Awesome idea. Any vote for it?
It makes sense! I mean, other weapon bonuses are already limited to "correct size" weapons. The raven doesn't get bonuses to medium sized missile launchers. The Vengeance is limited to rockets, while other frigates get bonuses to standard missiles AND rockets! Thank you, Yakia, for such a brilliant and inspiring idea! Your whine about the Moros having to commit to fights was actually beneficial. _________
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Pirokobo
Caldari New United Nations Spacy
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Posted - 2009.09.20 04:30:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Pirokobo on 20/09/2009 04:34:18
Originally by: Stuart Price Frigate drone-boats get bonuses to light drones. Cruiser and BC drone-boats get bonuses the med drones. Battleships get bonuses to heavy and sentry drones.
Where do the Myrmidon and the Eos fit into that? I mean, the point of the battlecruisers is that they should be able to just about match a low end battleship for damage (or in the case of a Drake, tanking) at the cost of about everything else.
Would they go up a half-step to enjoying bonuses for battleship drones, or down a half-step to just cruiser drones? Neither answer really suits the class.
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.09.20 09:33:00 -
[14]
while I think the op is mostly whining about getting a rather OP ship nerfed he is onto something.
have a look at the empire faction frigates. used to be minmatar where the fastest/most agile that was their strength and what made em unique. CCP decide to close the speed gap by nerfing minny and boosting others as well as closing the agil gap to the point where minmatar are no longer the fastest or most agile. It does make some sense though as they are supposed to be half af's half inties so they all being fast makes sense but it's just they've all lost their racial flavour and just became different colours of the same thing now.
Seems to have hit minmatar all over, remember minmatar the race of alpha, speed and flexibility. take a look at our best bs the maelstrom (phoon lovers may argue). It's got absolutely no flexibility, it's alpha is decent but can be outdone by the abaddon. But look at it's speed the core design philosophy of all minmatar ships... it's 3rd slowest of all bs's in the game (including t2/faction/pirate). The other minmatar bs's rank 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th respectievely yet mael is sitting waaaaay up the back. Even being a tier 3 isn't enough to excuse this as the tempest can out run any of the tier 1's easily. This isn't because it sucks it's because it's abandoned the minmatar design philosophy and just become a standard dps/tank (one of the best in the game at that role though).
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis The Space P0lice
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Posted - 2009.09.20 09:57:00 -
[15]
I liked how you started, but then I couldn't finish reading your post because you cried all over the 2nd half. *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.09.20 09:57:00 -
[16]
The more I think about it, the more I feel if they really must remove the one thing that makes the Moros unique (and actually fun), they should get rid of the drone bonus altogether and replace it with something useful for the dreads 'intended role'.
A drone bonus working only in siege is 99% worthless, because:
- You can only lock two targets, one of them usually the tower - It takes you like half an hour to lock anything smaller than a capship in the first place - Deploying sentries in a decent sized cap fleet causes bumpage which is fun to look at but not much fun to be involved in so more often than not it is best to just not deploy them at all. - If you do deploy them anyway, chances are high you will have to abandon them as you (or they) got bumped at least 10km from you and you can't scoop them, all the more reason to not deploy them in the first place.
And yes, I hate the change, but I will adapt to it (i.e. get rid of my Moros). But I'd rather people would still want to fly Moroses (and thus buy mine for a decent price :D) rather than everyone crosstraining for Revs since they totally blow the nerfed Moros outta the water when it comes to sieging something (so since siege will be the only reasonable application anymore, totally pwning them period...) And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
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Nanobot
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2009.09.20 10:55:00 -
[17]
Siege, Drones, right click, assist/guard?
Shoot 1st, shoot some more, keep shooting, some more shot, and if anyones alive after ask a few questions. Just a soldier following orders.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.09.20 11:41:00 -
[18]
I suggest that the OP trains to use a Siege Module.
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Zilberfrid
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Posted - 2009.09.20 12:12:00 -
[19]
While I cannot comment on the Moros, I subscribe to the feeling that looking at the past and looking into the future I see the factions coming more together. I also think this is a bad thing.
As I see it, races have the following
Amarr: An unnatural love for banana's, a great armour, a lot of cap for the lasers, and no real other strengths (limited speed and few midslots) Caldari: Steel Origami with a focus on mid slots, not only for shield but also for electronics, resulting in long range missile combat supported by railguns (lacking a bit in low slots) Gallente: Clay structures with a balanced slot amount, and a dual line, one drone oriented, the other with a lot of cap for blasters, often are none too bright in the CPU department Minmatar: Duct-tape and wire supporting a lot of speed and a lot of guns, a limited shield focus and a penchant for getting half of the ship blown apart in the first volley that hits (enemy fire does the same thing back)
The new speed bonusses for minmatar ships, especially when compared to Amarr ships, don't really fit in with this.
I also see the AF and Inty leering a bit friendly at one another, case in point of course is the Taranis (which was almost an attack frigate to begin with) compared to a newly ab's Enyo. This change means that the lower speed of attack frigates is negated when both use AB's (there is a use for an AB inty, though they are indeed rare). Why then have a different category?
I do not say "nerf this" or "boost that", rather "Make sure the factions are unique in their role"
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Spaztick
Terminal Impact Kairakau
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Posted - 2009.09.20 12:47:00 -
[20]
I bet you think 9/11 was an inside job too.
Quote: [21:18:10] SFShootme > first a carrier that goes boom, then mr viper had to find one of my goon alts, and now i'm down 182b ;( |
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Typhado3
Minmatar Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.09.20 13:02:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Zilberfrid
I do not say "nerf this" or "boost that", rather "Make sure the factions are unique in their role"
This this a thousand times this.
The current system seems to be more focused around keeping a FOTM so ppl always have something to train for and changing things enough (including complete redesigns) to keep things fresh. ------------------------------
Just a crazy inventor ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
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Pirokobo
Caldari New United Nations Spacy
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Posted - 2009.09.20 13:04:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar The more I think about it, the more I feel if they really must remove the one thing that makes the Moros unique (and actually fun), they should get rid of the drone bonus altogether and replace it with something useful for the dreads 'intended role'.
Does the Moros's bonus apply to fighters assigned to it, will fighter-bombers be useful against posses, and why not just have the bonus apply to assigned fighter-bombers?
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Dixi We
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Posted - 2009.09.20 14:31:00 -
[23]
I'm really disappointed about Moros drones nerf.
I'm always looking for PvE fun in game. Next my plan was to make a Moros to hunt in belts. I do not care that it's umm... made for different things. Is has good dps with sentry drones so why not? And now it's going to be nerfed. :-( Very disappointing. If I were already trained for it, I whould be much more upset - because it take a lot of time.
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Twelve Jackals
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Posted - 2009.09.20 14:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Spaztick I bet you think 9/11 was an inside job too.
It was, but lets not go there ;)
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.20 14:58:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dixi We I'm really disappointed about Moros drones nerf.
I'm always looking for PvE fun in game. Next my plan was to make a Moros to hunt in belts. I do not care that it's umm... made for different things. Is has good dps with sentry drones so why not? And now it's going to be nerfed. :-( Very disappointing. If I were already trained for it, I whould be much more upset - because it take a lot of time.
A lot of people did exactly that. Especially vets, that finished training for their regular ships and ran out of meaningful skills to train. They invested lots of skill-time and trusted in the persistence of this special Moros role, didn't expect such a breach of trust. And now CCP wants to slap those loyal longterm costumers in the face by removing this unique ship role and limit the Moros to the a boring and inferior dread.
And for what reason ? It's not comparable to the DD nerf, it didn't affect anyone like a titan, that could vaporise a fleet of 200 ships by pushing one button. This nerf wasn't needed and wasn't ask for, and there is no other explanation for it than making everything equal and boring, while creating many unhappy subscribers.
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techzer0
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.09.20 16:22:00 -
[26]
Edited by: techzer0 on 20/09/2009 16:22:53
Originally by: Kyra Felann I love how you imply this huge overarching trend from exactly two points of data, both of which are disputable.
If you've played since RMR or before it's a lot more than two "points of data" that have been equalized or nerfed, or balanced... whatever you want to call it.
I haven't shelled out the isk for a moros yet, even though i have it pretty much trained... I probably still will buy one even if the bonus only applies in siege (OMG! OH NOES! and all that)
But... w/e fix my nano-ships plz ------------
Originally by: Nexus Kinnon I could outgay you even without my pink tutu. >.>
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Gort
Minmatar Federation of Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2009.09.20 16:31:00 -
[27]
I agree with the OP. Step by step, this game is becoming homogenized.
Gort
-- When in doubt, empty the magazine. |
jemos
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.20 16:37:00 -
[28]
I want to see prof about the dominix receiving a nerf. A nerf as in the bonus only applies to heavy drones.
Can the OP please show me and the rest where you got this information?
Originally by: FireT
If you have capitals..... well for the love of Raptor Pope, use them before they rust away.
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Zilberfrid
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Posted - 2009.09.20 20:08:00 -
[29]
the next ship MIGHT be...
This in line with the Moros change
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Weeka
Lyonesse. KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2009.09.20 21:16:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Yakia TovilToba This nerf wasn't needed and wasn't ask for, and there is no other explanation for it than making everything equal and boring, while creating many unhappy subscribers.
Yeah ... I'm sure all the people that got annoyed by FOTM kids humping stations while harassing ppl will be so unhappy to have the moros actually commit to a fight, wenn attacking.. --- Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels. Zymurgist |
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