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Cpt Branko
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.09.20 17:36:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 20/09/2009 17:44:24
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 20/09/2009 17:40:48
 Originally by: M Blanc
So... basically, the T1 cruisers that will do fine against the boosted AFs are, according to you: the Rupture (dual neuts + drones), Vexor and Arbitrator (neuts + bonused drones), assault Caracal, and Thorax (web + ECM drones).
Of course, we can add to that list: no AB fit ship will ever catch a well-flown MWD Stabber, and a blackbird can keep any frigate permajammed indefinitely.
Preety much. Do note that the MWD Stabber will generally never get that kill (unless the AF pilot is doing something horribly wrong), and the Thorax will have some issues scoring the actual kill if the AF is very fast, ditto Brutix (which will in fact do best to warpoff). Hopefully ECMs don't get nerfed (given they're looking into them), because having one gun based cruiser which works is meh.
Rupture with dual neuts will do OK, as will the droneboats. Generally, multiple overlapping counters work - but it does make less and less fittings and ships viable.
To sum it up: if you cannot dedicate 2 slots to deal with AFs and three slots to deal with a Jaguar plus lights, you're dead. ECM drones will continue working in combination with the web, although they are a chance-based mechanic. The change does nerf viability of many ships, in order to boost the Jaguar/Ishkur.
Originally by: M Blanc
So basically, your incessant doomsaying boils down to: boosted AFs will be p. good at killing Moas, Omens, and Mallers, plus the various racial mining and logistics cruisers.
OH NOES, TEH SKY SI FALLING!!!111!
The Jaguar will be straight out OP at tackling. The Ishkur will be awesome (genereally more awesome at actually killing other AFs/frig hulls though then going for bigger things). Everything else will be (even more then now) ****. MWD fits are not really attractive anymore, since they do not provide a serious enough speed advantage compared to the lack of sig bloom, the ease of fitting and running a AB.
Oh, and it's not doomsaying. Read it. Somewhere along the way you missed the "while the change is fine for a large number of AFs". However, the change is stupid, it does further the imbalances within the class which are rather horrible to begin with, it does imbalance a few of them, it further reduces the amount of viable fittings for both AFs and larger ships, and it pushes some ships off the map as entirely useless.
The class, as a whole, could do with some lowering of the mass across the board, which would do wonders for their agility (which currently means that if you're running a frig gang, AFs are lagging behind) + add a slight bit of speed when running both speed mods, and a rebalancing within the class (because, seriously, having a class where most ships are bad in comparison to their peers or simply worthless = fail) in addition to a 4th bonus depending on the needs of actual ships (eg. tracking for Wolf/Jag).
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.20 17:52:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 20/09/2009 17:56:15
Originally by: Soporo
Oh, that's right, it won't... unless the AF pilot will be idiotic enough to close to suicidal med neut and web range and orbit tight like Liang had someone do in his gamed test.
What, you couldn't get flamed enough in the AF thread itself that you had to go spouting your utter nonsense here too? Pray tell me what is a valid Jag fitting if it's not using ACs? And furthermore, are you aware of just how amazing AC Jags are in the mean case? I assure you that every Jag you encounter will be AC fit.
Every.
Single.
One.
And know what that means? It'll be right where I was testing it.
Originally by: Ghoest
Mostly this looks like a good change. People saying there should be a counter - well there is, they are called webs.
They don't work as well as you'd hope. Ion Brutix, TE, Scram, Web and you still can't hit AFs worth a damn. I think I got one down to half shields before I lost the Brutix. Same story with Electron/Web/Scram Deimos - except the results were even worse.
Originally by: David Lulinvega
The only thing this changes is ab af vs t1 cruiser. I find it amusing how few people realize that and think this is going to be some amazing buff to afs.
Nope, if it were just cruisers vs AFs I'd probably be ok with the changes. But it's not. It's everything bigger than an AF is going to get screwed unless it devotes 2-3 slots specifically for the purpose of catching and/or driving away AFs. And yes, I've been spending time on the test server to see how they stack up.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.09.20 17:59:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 20/09/2009 17:44:24
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 20/09/2009 17:40:48
Originally by: M Blanc
So... basically, the T1 cruisers that will do fine against the boosted AFs are, according to you: the Rupture (dual neuts + drones), Vexor and Arbitrator (neuts + bonused drones), assault Caracal, and Thorax (web + ECM drones).
Of course, we can add to that list: no AB fit ship will ever catch a well-flown MWD Stabber, and a blackbird can keep any frigate permajammed indefinitely.
Preety much. Do note that the MWD Stabber will generally never get that kill (unless the AF pilot is doing something horribly wrong), and the Thorax will have some issues scoring the actual kill if the AF is very fast, ditto Brutix (which will in fact do best to warpoff). Hopefully ECMs don't get nerfed (given they're looking into them), because having one gun based cruiser which works is meh.
Rupture with dual neuts will do OK, as will the droneboats. Generally, multiple overlapping counters work - but it does make less and less fittings and ships viable.
To sum it up: if you cannot dedicate 2 slots to deal with AFs and three slots to deal with a Jaguar plus lights, you're dead. ECM drones will continue working in combination with the web, although they are a chance-based mechanic. The change does nerf viability of many ships, in order to boost the Jaguar/Ishkur.
Originally by: M Blanc
So basically, your incessant doomsaying boils down to: boosted AFs will be p. good at killing Moas, Omens, and Mallers, plus the various racial mining and logistics cruisers.
OH NOES, TEH SKY SI FALLING!!!111!
The Jaguar will be straight out OP at tackling. The Ishkur will be awesome (genereally more awesome at actually killing other AFs/frig hulls though then going for bigger things). Everything else will be (even more then now) ****. MWD fits are not really attractive anymore, since they do not provide a serious enough speed advantage compared to the lack of sig bloom, the ease of fitting and running a AB.
Oh, and it's not doomsaying. Read it. Somewhere along the way you missed the "while the change is fine for a large number of AFs". However, the change is stupid, it does further the imbalances within the class which are rather horrible to begin with, it does imbalance a few of them, it further reduces the amount of viable fittings for both AFs and larger ships, and it pushes some ships off the map as entirely useless.
The class, as a whole, could do with some lowering of the mass across the board, which would do wonders for their agility (which currently means that if you're running a frig gang, AFs are lagging behind) + add a slight bit of speed when running both speed mods, and a rebalancing within the class (because, seriously, having a class where most ships are bad in comparison to their peers or simply worthless = fail) in addition to a 4th bonus depending on the needs of actual ships (eg. tracking for Wolf/Jag).
tbh I agree with branko.
a simple straight bonus common to all AF's doesn't cover it. ships should be reviewed in a per-case basis, and not just giving them a blanket bonus
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.09.20 18:00:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Ghoest
You are confused about EVE in general. You seem to think all cruiser size ships should be easily able to kill all frig sized ships.
Not at all. But once you make a change that requires all other ships to sacrifice nearly all their slots to even stand a chance ....
As I said there will be counters but forcing a fitting paradigm to combat a single ship type while gimping all other engagements is wrong.
The speed-boost on the table makes AFs as fast or faster than a majority of MWD cruisers with zero downside.
As it is now an AF that fits a MWD can catch and kill nearly all cruisers that are not prepared for it, but it does so with the usual drawbacks to cap/signature.
The changes to frigates in Quantum Rise gave them a tremendous boost with higher speeds, lower mass and better agility while reducing web power .. they don't NEED any boost.
AF's are already one of the most frequently used ships in low-sec. Making them god-mobiles will make that a 90% rate with remaining 10% being alts in recons/logistics (numbers exaggerated for effect)
If a HAC actually fit a tank it would have no problem standing up to these Assult frig.
Your entire argument is basically that a HAC should never be able fir for solo against any medium or bigger ship(or run away) ans still not be afraid of AFs.
HACs are not supposed to be "I win" buttons.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.20 18:05:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Ghoest
HACs are not supposed to be "I win" buttons.
Neither are these AFs. And they definitely are against what I'd consider to be 80%+ of the fits (solo or not!) on TQ right now.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
jemos
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.09.20 18:12:00 -
[36]
Personally, I fell in love with the Wolf again. Even more after a tight tight battle against a caracal fitted with AML's. I did however go with the CQB wolf (I won btw). Next will be long range Wolf with ambit rigs ^^
Btw
Wolf 1x nano and AB2
1400
1900 overheated
Originally by: FireT
If you have capitals..... well for the love of Raptor Pope, use them before they rust away. 
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.09.20 18:40:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 20/09/2009 18:41:52
Originally by: Ghoest
If a HAC actually fit a tank it would have no problem standing up to these Assult frig.
Your entire argument is basically that a HAC should never be able fir for solo against any medium or bigger ship(or run away) ans still not be afraid of AFs.
HACs are not supposed to be "I win" buttons.
I never even mentioned HAC's so I am curious where you get that from.
But since you mentioned them; all HAC's except for the Sacrilege will need specific hardeners or use a dual-rep fit to be able to withstand the 150dps+ of an AF, and they cap out a lot faster than you'd think when repairing - injecting is just buying time.
Regardless, why would one want to use the ability to tank a ship type as a sign of balance anyway?
PS: I always use an active tank (minimum of MARII/DCUII/EANMII) on my HACs so am fully aware of just how vulnerable they are, especially cap-wise.
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Cpt Branko
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.09.20 19:46:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 20/09/2009 19:47:40
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Actually, it's about the only marginally effective defense I've found. I have been thinking a med + small would probably work better though. And heavies are just not worth your time. :-/
I'm betting that the med+small would work better; the kicker with the dual meds is that they take a fairly long time to break the scram of a ship which only uses its cap to keep that (and possibly a web) going, and even then it's gone in just a second. Everything which uses cap on the other hand, or cannot passively tank drones is just dead.
This is why I fit the thing (dual med neuts) even now on my ships - I can confirm however, that in practice it requires a good amount of time and capacitor to shake off a, for instance, Jaguar with that after it has latched onto you. Everything else, of course, dies in a fire.
Dual neuts + web + T2 lights are infallible, though, but that really does force you in specific fittings.
Did consider a arbitrator with lock time rigs to camp FW plexes and other places AFs congregate at ;)
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.09.20 23:53:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Ghoest
HACs are not supposed to be "I win" buttons.
Neither are these AFs. And they definitely are against what I'd consider to be 80%+ of the fits (solo or not!) on TQ right now.
-Liang
Ummm.
Maybe the probl;em is "80%+ of the fits."
You noobs thinks HACs are supposed to be a nuclear powered laser machine gun in a game of rock/paper/scissors.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.20 23:58:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ghoest
Ummm.
Maybe the probl;em is "80%+ of the fits."
You noobs thinks HACs are supposed to be a nuclear powered laser machine gun in a game of rock/paper/scissors.
How would you fit a Brutix?
How would you fit a Drake?
How would you fit a Cerb?
How would you fit a Deimos?
How would you fit an Ishtar?
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.09.21 00:02:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
[.
Regardless, why would one want to use the ability to tank a ship type as a sign of balance anyway?
Uhhh. Maybe because defense was originally supposed to be an important part of the game and we have now gotten to the point where most people mostly ignore it in PVP.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Cpt Branko
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.09.21 00:02:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 21/09/2009 00:05:23
If you think HACs are all that now, you're a noob who needs to try some PVP.
I understand the AF fanboyism. It's OK. We all love the little things. However, significantly reducing the amount of "valid" ships to fly in order to boost two ships (or even one shipclass, but only two ships will have a point post-patch) is just stupid, nothing else.
They need some fixes, but they don't need fixes which lead to most of them getting nothing and a few of them becoming OP.
Also, cheering for a I-win ship class is stupid. Cheering for a I-win ship class which has all the intristic advantages of frigate hulls in regard to ease of roaming, tackling and so on is just 
Originally by: Ghoest
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
[.
Regardless, why would one want to use the ability to tank a ship type as a sign of balance anyway?
Uhhh. Maybe because defense was originally supposed to be an important part of the game and we have now gotten to the point where most people mostly ignore it in PVP.
They don't. It's called EHP on most ships.
Running on cap boosters is the same thing as running on buffer if you cannot kill the agressor, and ships which can permarun even a single rep (which typically yields crap tank) take generally far too many slots to be viable, unless it's a Sac.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.09.21 00:16:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Ghoest
Ummm.
Maybe the probl;em is "80%+ of the fits."
You noobs thinks HACs are supposed to be a nuclear powered laser machine gun in a game of rock/paper/scissors.
How would you fit a Brutix?
How would you fit a Drake?
How would you fit a Cerb?
How would you fit a Deimos?
How would you fit an Ishtar?
-Liang
Well it would depend on what I wanted. I accept that their will be trade offs. Especially if I think I can solo.
BCs should be one trick fit. They a disposable so fit for your intended target and suck it up if you meet the wrong guy.
The Cerb is a broken ship by design(or built for an extremely narrow niche.) Id love to see a modest redesign, but dont holds its weirdness against other ships.
The Deimios is already a glass canon - most people dont fly them.
The Ishtar? Please. You can fit it for anything.
Trally you should have mentioned the poor Eagle.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.09.21 00:21:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Cpt Branko
stuff
But its not an "I win" for everything. Its just a ship that treat some T2 Cruiser builds as T2 Cruisers treat T2 Battleships.
You can fit many T2 cruisers to take out an AF if thats what you want anyway. It just wont be the same fit that owns other cruioser class and larger ships.
And the AF wont be taking out big ships that the cruisers can kill.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.21 00:30:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Ghoest
But its not an "I win" for everything. Its just a ship that treat some T2 Cruiser builds as T2 Cruisers treat T2 Battleships.
You can fit many T2 cruisers to take out an AF if thats what you want anyway. It just wont be the same fit that owns other cruioser class and larger ships.
And the AF wont be taking out big ships that the cruisers can kill.
It's not treating "some" T2 cruisers. It's not treating everything in the entire game that doesn't have 2 medium neuts, light drones, and 1-2 webs that way. You don't fit for anti-AF work and you are AF-food. Period.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.09.21 00:37:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
[
It's not treating "some" T2 cruisers. It's not treating everything in the entire game that doesn't have 2 medium neuts, light drones, and 1-2 webs that way. You don't fit for anti-AF work and you are AF-food. Period.
-Liang
Any BS with a tank will be fine. Plenty of BCs with tanks will be fine. Some T2 cruisers will be fine.
Its about time that T2 cruisers have a predator.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Cpt Branko
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.09.21 00:55:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Ghoest
Any BS with a tank will be fine.
I'm not sure any BS can in fact tank a non-worthless AF on cap recharge alone, meaning it dies. Eventually.
Originally by: Ghoest
Plenty of BCs with tanks will be fine.
PVE fits, sure. PVP fits? No. Remember, cap boosters do run out.
Originally by: Ghoest
Some T2 cruisers will be fine.
Yeah, a Vagabond since it most likely will not get caught, and a Ishtar because it'll just neut the living crap out of you and mow you down with bonused T2 lights.
Originally by: Ghoest
Its about time that T2 cruisers have a predator.
BS/BC/CS kill them just fine.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Will Strafe
Caldari
Overview Glitch
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Posted - 2009.09.21 01:57:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Soporo
Not to mention making Light missiles useless, even with precisions + painter + rigor + flare + Crash booster.
Goodbye Caracal, goodbye AML Cerb (if it goes through as is).
Their argument for this will be: use drones then! Despite the fact that Af's can kill drones easily, and Cald get squat for drones.
The fact that they even proposed this uber AB'ing AF change means they either didnt know anything about light missiles, didnt care the effect it had on them, or just want to ensure light missile platforms become useless for some reason. I can't see any other possible rationale.
Why shouldn't a 22 million combat boat be able to take out a 7 million combat boat. Or, if thats too much for the guy in the cheap ship, at least force him to fit for the situation, i.e. a web...?
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.21 02:11:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Will Strafe
Why shouldn't a 22 million combat boat be able to take out a 7 million combat boat. Or, if thats too much for the guy in the cheap ship, at least force him to fit for the situation, i.e. a web...?
his claim is that the caracal cant win even if it does everything rite rom
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Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.09.21 02:50:00 -
[50]
Your true colors are coming out. You want to be able to set up T2 cruisers to fight big ships and never have to worry about AFs.
You guys totally ignore that some T2 cruisers could be set up to counter AFs - at the expense of other mission. And you ignore the fact that there are other ships vulnerable in HAC much the same way HACs are vulnerable to AFs.
Also remember I said in the beginning that light missiles and rockets need to be adjusted if this change goes through.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.21 03:10:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ghoest
Your true colors are coming out. You want to be able to set up T2 cruisers to fight big ships and never have to worry about AFs.
You guys totally ignore that some T2 cruisers could be set up to counter AFs - at the expense of other mission. And you ignore the fact that there are other ships vulnerable in HAC much the same way HACs are vulnerable to AFs.
Also remember I said in the beginning that light missiles and rockets need to be adjusted if this change goes through.
No n did e i want to b e abel t os et up fsdt2 fcursrs fabout liek to kill stufcv. ur like lolluooool uede y 2t cfrig is pwn ujrs asssss bnitshces! tehy are hroke ahvae ru yhou even logfed ein t ocheck?
-0Liagfn
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Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.09.21 03:15:00 -
[52]
I have no idea what you just said. Are you making fun of me for a misspelling or something?
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.21 03:31:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Ghoest
I have no idea what you just said. Are you making fun of me for a misspelling or something?
No. I am not making fun of you for being durnk i ja mttrying to tell uyou that he assault frigs are do very overpowerd its not taht i want the stupid t2 hac to be all uber its that therers no iofter optpion becasedi to flyh af and am l caracalt tyanfter this mnachange . you dont ot citt 23 meduh n mntues and ligths adn 2 bwes you jrs a dead af fodo becaus they arse that overpowered.
its not like thtde hawk or teh su harpy rare thtaht overpowered its that th jag and simlar the turtet sheips have jno defenese without compelte ly geminping the fits.
pradon pselingb ecuae i nam tdrunk
90Ligan
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Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Liang Nuren
The Hull Miners Union
Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.09.21 03:45:00 -
[54]
u r advocating a i win ship cals that is not hutning hcas and recnos and bcs and bcs and evryning else but teh al lof eve . n ochance of win unles fit 3-5 modules and lite drones . it is i win buton it is unpabalnced . i wil not flyh anything elcse until they get nerfed or a hug e set of balnce hacanges to give everythign else at tryance
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Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Davinel Lulinvega
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Posted - 2009.09.21 03:53:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Ghoest
I have no idea what you just said. Are you making fun of me for a misspelling or something?
No. I am not making fun of you for being durnk i ja mttrying to tell uyou that he assault frigs are do very overpowerd its not taht i want the stupid t2 hac to be all uber its that therers no iofter optpion becasedi to flyh af and am l caracalt tyanfter this mnachange . you dont ot citt 23 meduh n mntues and ligths adn 2 bwes you jrs a dead af fodo becaus they arse that overpowered.
its not like thtde hawk or teh su harpy rare thtaht overpowered its that th jag and simlar the turtet sheips have jno defenese without compelte ly geminping the fits.
pradon pselingb ecuae i nam tdrunk
90Ligan
DON'T WORRY I GOT THIS
No. I am not making fun of you for being drunk, I jam trying to tell you that he assaults frigs. They are so overpowered it's not that I want the stupid t2 hac to be all uber it's that there's no other option because to fly afs and aml caracal after this man change. You don't **** out 23 murder minutes and lights and 2 boys you jars of dead af Frodo Baggins. Because my arse is that overpowered.
It's not like tilde hawk or the slurpy are that overpowered it's that the jag and similar turret ships have no defense without completely gimping the fits.
Prada celery back in 'nam I was drunk.
Originally by: CCP Tuxford
Now the op looks like a weirdo that can't read kekekeke!
inb4 stealth edit |
SuiJuris
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.09.21 04:13:00 -
[56]
And Pray tell me, what happens when 2 AF's meet 2 cruisers?, or 2+ AF's meet any equel number of a larger class of ship huh?
so what if they can MURDER larger ships 1v1, IF i had to bet on 10 Harbingers vs 10 AF's guess where my money is?
in group pvp you CANNOT maintain a orbit on 1 target while maintaining transversal on other targets. Great concept eh, and btw if they are effing scram fit they CANNOT CAMP A GATE SOLO.
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I am taking pre orders for Navy Armageddons |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.09.21 08:44:00 -
[57]
Ignore the Ghoest fellow. He is answering questions that were never asked, use arguments that were never made and avoids answering any challenges that does not fit his world view - all the characteristics of a troll.
Originally by: SuiJuris
<The Gang/Fleet Argument
Unless the two larger ship have the prerequisite minimum of 2-3 webs, lots of light drones, points and neuts available they will die.
It will require an unnaturally high level of cooperation between them (moving away from eachother for transversal negation etc.). If they are able to do this AND have the necessary modules then they win, but it is a longshot since unintuitive thinking/actions like moving away from buddies being attacked is a rare and hard learned skill.
Why would 10 AFs engage 10 Harbingers unless they were TD wielding Ishkurs using rails? It is the same argument as saying that 10 BS would die attacking 10 Carriers, its a useless hypothetical scenario that will never happen.
At any rate, scaling up gang/fleet sizes can ALWAYS be used to counter anything, it is the basis for the blob. One of the reasons the Titan changes are such a hot topic at the moment 1 is fine, 5 nearly OP
Focusing a fleets heavy firepower on tackle is a sure fire way of losing a battle. By the time you down one half your ship are vaporized to the other sides dps ..
Scrams with 1.5-2k/s are perfectly fine for normal gates, on AB burst is enough for overheated scram to land - your lock probably wont finish though, but that is unrelated to issue.
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2009.09.21 09:10:00 -
[58]
Jag is going to be bleeding fantastic, as Liang stated fitted with AC's and either an EHP fit or a faction booster. Even when webbed it'll still be fast enough to orbit you to mess up your tracking and the naturally small sig radius helps here. Can fit full tackle, can choose damage types, has good resists to the obvious Hammerheads and warriors, doesn't need cap to fire so neuting doesn't help much (can fit nos). All it needs is some tracking and it's a bit low on dps but once a Jag catches you, unless you have some REAL good answer it doesn't matter if it takes a bit longer or not; you gonna die.
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Muad' Dib
Gallente
Beyond Divinity Inc
Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.09.21 11:23:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 21/09/2009 11:26:11
Originally by: Will Strafe
Originally by: Soporo
Not to mention making Light missiles useless, even with precisions + painter + rigor + flare + Crash booster.
Goodbye Caracal, goodbye AML Cerb (if it goes through as is).
Their argument for this will be: use drones then! Despite the fact that Af's can kill drones easily, and Cald get squat for drones.
The fact that they even proposed this uber AB'ing AF change means they either didnt know anything about light missiles, didnt care the effect it had on them, or just want to ensure light missile platforms become useless for some reason. I can't see any other possible rationale.
Why shouldn't a 22 million combat boat be able to take out a 7 million combat boat. Or, if thats too much for the guy in the cheap ship, at least force him to fit for the situation, i.e. a web...?
Maybe because nothing should be pure rock/paper/scissor and maybe because the 7m isk combat boat that you think off asks for more SP.
Also, considering that Branko has been flying Cruisers for years now and medium class ships, i'd value his opinion far above any Dev ... especially since the Dev will be biased towards changes that bring more ppl in the game but do unballance the game overall.
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I smack just for myself.
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Ghoest
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Posted - 2009.09.21 11:42:00 -
[60]
Yes ignore the guy looking at the big picture who doesnt mind a shift from the current disturbed paradigm.
Pnly pay attention to petty noobs trying to protect their T2 cruiser glory.
Wherever you went - Here you are.
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