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topper13 Kadeyooh
ATM Corp
0
   |
Posted - 2012.06.06 06:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just looking at the Journal on the "Incursions Global Report" tab and of the 7 incursions available there only is activity in one!!
CCP did a good job there (not)!
Perhaps they are in league with the Sancha 
On a more serious note though, the vast number of people who no longer do incursions must be a worry for CCP. Essentially CCP have killed a major part of EVE and that is not good. Not sure it will recover with any de-nerfing either  |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
72
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 07:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
same old topic again, roll over and die or deal with it.
no more easy isk for you, go run L4s |
topper13 Kadeyooh
ATM Corp
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 08:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
* ignores the troll........
|
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
72
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 08:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
lets see how long does this thread last |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
212
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 11:03:00 -
[5] - Quote
Apolyon I wrote:lets see how long does this thread last
Apolyon Troll go eff yourself
EVE residents: 5% WH; 8% Lowsec; 15% Nullsec; 72% Highsec.CSM 7: 1 highsec resident out of 14.CSM demographics vs EVE demographics, nothing to worry about... |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
73
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 14:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
you sound mad, I just make 500m/hr, how much did you make?? |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1644
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 15:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
I've recently been looking back at the killboards of SKNK's incursion griefing victims. With roughly 250 kills it's too tedious to put together real numbers, but I have seen one remarkable trend...
I'd estimate that maybe 100 of our former targets had a history in nullsec or w-space prior to our encounter in a highsec incursion. Following their loss to our gank fleet...nothing, until the past month. A remarkable number of those characters have resumed activities in dangerous space and reentered the realm of PVP...apparently because of the incursion nerf. When the isk faucet was slowed down, they went back to doing what they did before.
This tells me two things. First, the incursioners were lying when they said "it's about the community!" Obviously not. The community didn't get nerfed and the payout is still decent. It's just not the crazy-high rewards of six months ago. No, it's become quite plain that it was never about community. It was about isk. And second, incursions were indeed drawing players away from other environments. Couple that with what we've learned about the priority of most of the people running incursions, and you realize that incursions were indeed bad for Eve. They drew people out of corporations and alliances solely to tap the isk faucet.
The incursion nerf has simply restored things to their previous state. I'm in favor of it staying just as it is. Let those who actually value the community continue running incursions. Let those who want an isk faucet chase it in place that provide risk along with the reward.
It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Mazzy Star
S0utherN Comfort
Cascade Imminent
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 16:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:I've recently been looking back at the killboards of SKNK's incursion griefing victims. With roughly 250 kills it's too tedious to put together real numbers, but I have seen one remarkable trend...
I'd estimate that maybe 100 of our former targets had a history in nullsec or w-space prior to our encounter in a highsec incursion. Following their loss to our gank fleet...nothing, until the past month. A remarkable number of those characters have resumed activities in dangerous space and reentered the realm of PVP...apparently because of the incursion nerf. When the isk faucet was slowed down, they went back to doing what they did before.
This tells me two things. First, the incursioners were lying when they said "it's about the community!" Obviously not. The community didn't get nerfed and the payout is still decent. It's just not the crazy-high rewards of six months ago. No, it's become quite plain that it was never about community. It was about isk. And second, incursions were indeed drawing players away from other environments. Couple that with what we've learned about the priority of most of the people running incursions, and you realize that incursions were indeed bad for Eve. They drew people out of corporations and alliances solely to tap the isk faucet.
The incursion nerf has simply restored things to their previous state. I'm in favor of it staying just as it is. Let those who actually value the community continue running incursions. Let those who want an isk faucet chase it in place that provide risk along with the reward.
To be fair, no one in their right mind is going to do group content that pays the same or less per hour than equivalent solo content. There's a lot more hassle (read: downtime when you aren't earning ISK) involved in getting to incursions, finding a fleet, waiting on the fleet to fill up, finding a new fleet when that one disbands, and so on. If you can pull in equivalent money in level 4 missions without all the downtime and hassle, who in their right mind would stick with Incursions? That doesn't mean people didn't enjoy the community aspect of it.
It's also worth recognizing that Incursion PVE content was at least more interesting than ratting anoms and the like in Null sec, and a lot of people used incursions to fund their PVP and to do so in a way that was more involved than other forms of PVE. I would not consider more involved and more interesting content to be "bad" for Eve because it drew some people away from mindless ratting and missioning by themselves. Surely you aren't suggesting that pulling people away from high sec missions to do more involved PVE content is "bad" for Eve.
The rewards needed a bit of tweaking, but given the populations of incursion systems these days, it's pretty apparent they went too far. Also, it's cute that you consider ratting systems to be "dangerous space" and that by resuming ratting they have " reentered the realm of PVP". Good for a laugh at least. :) |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1655
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 16:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mazzy Star wrote:To be fair, no one in their right mind is going to do group content that pays the same or less per hour than equivalent solo content.
Then you and I play games for completely different reasons.
Mazzy Star wrote:There's a lot more hassle (read: downtime when you aren't earning ISK) involved in getting to incursions, finding a fleet, waiting on the fleet to fill up, finding a new fleet when that one disbands, and so on. If you can pull in equivalent money in level 4 missions without all the downtime and hassle, who in their right mind would stick with Incursions? That doesn't mean people didn't enjoy the community aspect of it.
So quit playing pickup fleets and get a regular group together. I fly with the same half-dozen people every day. We're consistently on and consistently working together. Why can't you get that sort of activity for incursions? Why do you have to FIND a fleet?
Mazzy Star wrote:It's also worth recognizing that Incursion PVE content was at least more interesting than ratting anoms and the like in Null sec, and a lot of people used incursions to fund their PVP and to do so in a way that was more involved than other forms of PVE. I would not consider more involved and more interesting content to be "bad" for Eve because it drew some people away from mindless ratting and missioning by themselves. Surely you aren't suggesting that pulling people away from high sec missions to do more involved PVE content is "bad" for Eve.
If the content is that much more interesting than solo ratting and missions, then why did everyone bail out?
Because they were there for the isk. Not for the content, not for the community, they were there purely to get in on the gold rush. This nerf has stripped away the veneer they put up. The past high level of incursion activity were based almost solely on greed. Which is fine by me, except that so many people denied that fact for months prior to the nerfs.
It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Spineker
205
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 17:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Doesn't matter obviously Soundwave totally destroyed the system with his shortsighted sledgehammer of nerfdom. He had to placate his buddies down in Nullpeen. |
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1660
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 17:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Spineker wrote:Doesn't matter obviously Soundwave totally destroyed the system with his shortsighted sledgehammer of nerfdom. He had to placate his buddies down in Nullpeen.
It's not destroyed. Incursions still work and you can still make decent isk at them. It's just that the beancounters of Eve who never cared about community abandoned it at the first sign of trouble.
It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Mazzy Star
S0utherN Comfort
Cascade Imminent
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 18:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
Quote:Mazzy Star wrote:
To be fair, no one in their right mind is going to do group content that pays the same or less per hour than equivalent solo content.
Then you and I play games for completely different reasons.
My comment was directed at ISK grinding. A lot of people did incursions to fund other activities, rather than pure enjoyment. I guess if you play the game solely for PVE purposes, you may have different reasons. However, if your goal is to earn some cash to fund PVP activities, then ISK/HR plays a large role. That said, it doesn't mean people didn't enjoy the interactions with other players in incursions, especially compared to other activities like ratting. It's also a bit silly that people can earn equal or more cash by doing PVE content by themselves, rather than by putting in the time and effort to form up a group and running group (Incursion) content. I fail to see how it's good for this game to force more people to rat and grind repetitive solo content, whether it's ratting or missions.
Quote:So quit playing pickup fleets and get a regular group together. I fly with the same half-dozen people every day. We're consistently on and consistently working together. Why can't you get that sort of activity for incursions? Why do you have to FIND a fleet?
I referred to pick up fleets because most people did run with pick up fleets. I bounced between a few of the better dedicated fleets when I ran incursions, and I was never that big of an incursion bear to begin with as I haven't needed to grind for cash in quite a while. I did run with some pick up fleets though just to see what it was like. My point was simply to not just consider what ISN and the other groups pulled in per hour, but to think about what the average player was making from Incursions. When you factor in all the downtime that the average player put up with for incursions, it wasn't really that impressive of ISK.
Quote:If the content is that much more interesting than solo ratting and missions, then why did everyone bail out?
Because they were there for the isk. Not for the content, not for the community, they were there purely to get in on the gold rush. This nerf has stripped away the veneer they put up. The past high level of incursion activity were based almost solely on greed. Which is fine by me, except that so many people denied that fact for months prior to the nerfs.
Of course people were there for the ISK, but there were other reasons as well (namely, other forms of PVE in this game are a grind and quickly become boring as ****). Starting with the notion that players need to grind ISK to fund other projects in this game, the combat-oriented PVE options in this game are pretty limited, and there are only a handful of ways the average player can grind ISK with combat ships. If your goal is to bring in cash as quickly as possible, who in their right mind would choose a less profitable activity that also requires them to commit to a dedicated shiny ship and all the other requirements that come along with incursion running?
In short, and as the mass exodus from incursions will attest to, there's really no reason choose a group activity like incursions over ratting/missions UNLESS it pays more than solo ISK grinding. Just going through a few factors, reliable incursion running requires you to a) have an expensive ship dedicated to incursions (logi being somewhat of an exception), b) put in the effort to organize or join a group -OR- deal with pick up groups and c) commit yourself in high sec for some period of time. If I'm in null and I want to blitz out the cash for a new ship, how is it worth my time to JC to high sec, tie up 1b+ of capital for a ship, fly to an incursion site, find a fleet (which can include more waiting for a spot to open up) - all to earn equivalent cash to mission running or ratting (and less if you count all the wasted downtime)? In short, it isn't. It boils down to a ton of work for no noticeable gain, and so it's no surprise that people stick with other ways of grinding ISK these days.
That said, I fail to see how the game is better for it. It was good to bring the rewards for VGs down a notch, but it shouldn't be so low that it competes with solo activities for the average player. If you take the time and effort to organize 10 people, it should be more rewarding than if you go out by yourself and do PVE content. Likewise, if you go with 20 or 50 people for PVE, it should be even more rewarding still. As it is though, the rewards are pretty meager compared to the time and effort that's required and so people look elsewhere, which is really a shame. Hopefully CCP will restore the payouts to be vaguely close to where they were before, so at least incursions will be a viable option again. |
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc
Exhale.
305
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 20:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Incursions are a new thing.
Nerfing a new thing to balance it with all the old things is hardly 'killing a major part of eve'.
move the fk on. |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
169
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 20:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
To simplify current situation for the "Incursions are now fine" peeps ...
Isk vs risk&hassle = Not worth it in comparison to running even lowly level 4s
Group PVE is more fun but less safe when you need to trust your multibillion ship to random logi pilots that can be mentally 5 yearold, drunk, drugged, ganker, normal dont give a **** lolololo-internet dwellers.
You have the hassle of getting into fleets and no matter how superbly elite you are with 4 billion ship ... you still wont get instantly into a fleet.
Basicly all PVE is to support something else ... who in their right mind would ever do PVE as they main source of "fun" ... I mean pve in this game is massively booring repetition. More booring then most. Isk/h is allways an issue.
Doing group PVE is supposed to be a income increasing thing ... not something you have to "pay" by getting less isk. If you honestly argue that the logic of paying for group activity is correct ... then your 0.0 empire should be earning peanuts ... afterall you need thousands of people for that effort thus it must be so much more fun and your supposed to be willing to take a hit in income for that. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate
Sailors of the Sacred Spice
141
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 20:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Incursions are a new thing.
Nerfing a new thing to balance it with all the old things is hardly 'killing a major part of eve'.
move the fk on.
As a note, go check faction mod prices since the nerf and let me know if you see a trend.
Yes, it probably has a lot to do with being floated on the normal market but it's related.
Tag prices increased again?
The biggest server population spike in the past 2 years is after Incursions got implemented. The biggest server population drop in the past 2 years, excluding Aur scandal, is after Incursions got nerfed.
Expansion too successful? Nerf it!
Standings Improvement Service
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
73
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 22:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Incursions are a new thing.
Nerfing a new thing to balance it with all the old things is hardly 'killing a major part of eve'.
move the fk on.
As a note, go check faction mod prices since the nerf and let me know if you see a trend.
Yes, it probably has a lot to do with being floated on the normal market but it's related. Tag prices increased again? The biggest server population spike in the past 2 years is after Incursions got implemented. The biggest server population drop in the past 2 years, excluding Aur scandal, is after Incursions got nerfed. Expansion too successful? Nerf it!
evidence??
btw, if you carebears keep claiming doing incursion to "fund" your pvp, link kb or stfu |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
151
|
Posted - 2012.06.06 22:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
Apolyon I wrote:sabre906 wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Incursions are a new thing.
Nerfing a new thing to balance it with all the old things is hardly 'killing a major part of eve'.
move the fk on.
As a note, go check faction mod prices since the nerf and let me know if you see a trend.
Yes, it probably has a lot to do with being floated on the normal market but it's related. Tag prices increased again? The biggest server population spike in the past 2 years is after Incursions got implemented. The biggest server population drop in the past 2 years, excluding Aur scandal, is after Incursions got nerfed. Expansion too successful? Nerf it! evidence?? btw, if you carebears keep claiming doing incursion to "fund" your pvp, link kb or stfu
Umad mr banjo?
Whats really astounding is, Why? |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1680
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 01:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
Err...are you confusing him with me?
It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
73
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 02:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kara Books wrote:
Umad mr banjo?
Whats really astounding is, Why?
why should I be mad??
I'm making 500m/hr, pvp in 1b T3, making isk is 4b archon, life is good for me |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate
Sailors of the Sacred Spice
142
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 03:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
Apolyon I wrote:sabre906 wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Incursions are a new thing.
Nerfing a new thing to balance it with all the old things is hardly 'killing a major part of eve'.
move the fk on.
As a note, go check faction mod prices since the nerf and let me know if you see a trend.
Yes, it probably has a lot to do with being floated on the normal market but it's related. Tag prices increased again? The biggest server population spike in the past 2 years is after Incursions got implemented. The biggest server population drop in the past 2 years, excluding Aur scandal, is after Incursions got nerfed. Expansion too successful? Nerf it! evidence?? btw, if you carebears keep claiming doing incursion to "fund" your pvp, link kb or stfu
Go check CCP's official server graph. Too lazy to link it.
Standings Improvement Service
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
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Arazel Chainfire
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
112
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 04:37:00 -
[21] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:I've recently been looking back at the killboards of SKNK's incursion griefing victims. With roughly 250 kills it's too tedious to put together real numbers, but I have seen one remarkable trend...
I'd estimate that maybe 100 of our former targets had a history in nullsec or w-space prior to our encounter in a highsec incursion. Following their loss to our gank fleet...nothing, until the past month. A remarkable number of those characters have resumed activities in dangerous space and reentered the realm of PVP...apparently because of the incursion nerf. When the isk faucet was slowed down, they went back to doing what they did before.
This tells me two things. First, the incursioners were lying when they said "it's about the community!" Obviously not. The community didn't get nerfed and the payout is still decent. It's just not the crazy-high rewards of six months ago. No, it's become quite plain that it was never about community. It was about isk. And second, incursions were indeed drawing players away from other environments. Couple that with what we've learned about the priority of most of the people running incursions, and you realize that incursions were indeed bad for Eve. They drew people out of corporations and alliances solely to tap the isk faucet.
The incursion nerf has simply restored things to their previous state. I'm in favor of it staying just as it is. Let those who actually value the community continue running incursions. Let those who want an isk faucet chase it in place that provide risk along with the reward.
Personally, I wonder how many of those people who went back to WH space/nullsec etc. initially did the incursions for isk, or if they did them because they were new and different from what they were used to. When I started doing incursions, they weren't paying more than missions were (and were mostly being completed by drakes), but because they were new and different, I still went and did them.
Now yes, the isk was definately nice. But if you always get your isk in the same way all the time, you really begin to burn out doing that. Hence why I've done everything from missions to exploration to WH space, to nullsec anoms to incursions. And I'll probably cycle back through all of them again, and I still have mission ships sitting by my favorite agent, incursion ships waiting for me in jita in case I ever feel the urge to do that again, exploration ships scattered around space, and about half the stuff I would need to go back into WH's full time again. Its all a matter of changing it up from time to time.
-Arazel |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
73
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 05:15:00 -
[22] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Apolyon I wrote:sabre906 wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Incursions are a new thing.
Nerfing a new thing to balance it with all the old things is hardly 'killing a major part of eve'.
move the fk on.
As a note, go check faction mod prices since the nerf and let me know if you see a trend.
Yes, it probably has a lot to do with being floated on the normal market but it's related. Tag prices increased again? The biggest server population spike in the past 2 years is after Incursions got implemented. The biggest server population drop in the past 2 years, excluding Aur scandal, is after Incursions got nerfed. Expansion too successful? Nerf it! evidence?? btw, if you carebears keep claiming doing incursion to "fund" your pvp, link kb or stfu Go check CCP's official server graph. Too lazy to link it.
any proof they're all incursion runners or just myth?? |
FuzzyButt
Snuff Box
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 07:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
Apolyon I wrote:Kara Books wrote:
Umad mr banjo?
Whats really astounding is, Why?
why should I be mad?? I'm making 500m/hr, pvp in 1b T3, making isk in 4b archon, eve life is good for me
Wow really, you pvp in a 1b T3 =D
You must be a really pro pvp-machine!! =))
I hope i too one day can make 500m/hr and fly 1b T3's !!!
=D =D =D =D =D =D =D =D =D =D =D =D =D =D =D |
Lunkwill Khashour
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
113
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 10:25:00 -
[24] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Apolyon I wrote:sabre906 wrote:Jack Miton wrote:Incursions are a new thing.
Nerfing a new thing to balance it with all the old things is hardly 'killing a major part of eve'.
move the fk on.
As a note, go check faction mod prices since the nerf and let me know if you see a trend.
Yes, it probably has a lot to do with being floated on the normal market but it's related. Tag prices increased again? The biggest server population spike in the past 2 years is after Incursions got implemented. The biggest server population drop in the past 2 years, excluding Aur scandal, is after Incursions got nerfed. Expansion too successful? Nerf it! evidence?? btw, if you carebears keep claiming doing incursion to "fund" your pvp, link kb or stfu Go check CCP's official server graph. Too lazy to link it.
Largest drop in subscribers was last summer. The recent drop took place on May 15th. This date doesn't correlate to anything happening in EvE. If only there was a major gaming event that could somehow explain this "diabolical" drop. |
Zanza Mechonis
Vulkan Innovations
Valiant Star Operations
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 14:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:Largest drop in subscribers was last summer. The recent drop took place on May 15th. This date doesn't correlate to anything happening in EvE. If only there was a major gaming event that could somehow explain this "diabolical" drop.
...I actually had to check the release date as I never thought of playing it myself... but I approve of this post xD
"On the internet you can be anything you want... It's strange that many people choose to be stupid." |
Uinuva Karma
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 15:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
So, move L4s to lowsec and incursionbears will form their "communities" again?
 |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
165
|
Posted - 2012.06.07 15:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
120% sure that's exactly what would happen.
edit: not saying it shouldn't happen because **** lvl4s. |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
221
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 01:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:sabre906 wrote:[quote=Apolyon I]
Go check CCP's official server graph. Too lazy to link it. Largest drop in subscribers was last summer. The recent drop took place on May 15th. This date doesn't correlate to anything happening in EvE. If only there was a major gaming event that could somehow explain this "diabolical" drop.
May 15th was the first mid month date ater the Incursion NERF June 15th is the second & the day I'm considering unsubbing
Unintended Bug Working as IntendedGäó |
Zanza Mechonis
Vulkan Innovations
Valiant Star Operations
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 14:03:00 -
[29] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Lunkwill Khashour wrote:sabre906 wrote:[quote=Apolyon I]
Go check CCP's official server graph. Too lazy to link it. Largest drop in subscribers was last summer. The recent drop took place on May 15th. This date doesn't correlate to anything happening in EvE. If only there was a major gaming event that could somehow explain this "diabolical" drop. May 15th was the first mid month date ater the Incursion NERF June 15th is the second & the day I'm considering unsubbing
*cough*Diablo 3*cough*
Also, if you're unsubbing just because incursions don't bring up so much isk anymore, go ahead, i'll be happy to see the free spots in fleets when I switch to incursions... :P
"On the internet you can be anything you want... It's strange that many people choose to be stupid." |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc
Exhale.
43
|
Posted - 2012.06.08 15:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Lunkwill Khashour wrote:sabre906 wrote:[quote=Apolyon I]
Go check CCP's official server graph. Too lazy to link it. Largest drop in subscribers was last summer. The recent drop took place on May 15th. This date doesn't correlate to anything happening in EvE. If only there was a major gaming event that could somehow explain this "diabolical" drop. May 15th was the first mid month date ater the Incursion NERF June 15th is the second & the day I'm considering unsubbing
Empty threats. CCP know damn well that you wouldn't dare quit your precious spaceships online - even if you've been forced back to mining veldspar or running sad little level 4 missions. You won't quit. You can't.
The tears of a thousand incursionbears |
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