You have never sold a mod to an NPC.

Every sale you make is a sale the other guy didn't make.

This is PVP. Player versus Player.

That goes both ways.

This is EVE. Everybody Versus Everybody.

That goes both ways.

PVP'ers apparently don't grasp this notion.

Miners are free to mine. PVP'ers are free to blow them up. Where lies the problem here?

Welcome to Eve.

"EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world." --CCP Wrangler

Nonconsensual Ship combat will not go away. Eve didn't even have sentry guns or CONCORD at the beginning. It is part of the core philosophy of the game.

"All of it occured in the same framework of unrestricted player movement and limitless player choice in a single, shared game universe. As our senior producer put it 'f*cking brilliant'." --CCP Explorer in reference to Burn Jita

You are never really soloing, and you are really always PVPing. Whether you acknowledge this, and how well you do this is your only choice while playing eve. You have never sold a mod to an NPC. Every mineral you mine lowers the value of EVERY other player's minerals. Every rat you pop lowers the isk value of every other players isk. Every sale you make is a sale the other guy didn't make. This is PVP. Player versus Player. This is EVE. Everybody Versus Everybody. They have the right to stop you. If your ship so happens to be in space it is a valid target, no matter what type of ship it is, what part of the cluster it resides, what mods it has fitted, no matter what you think.

Over the course of EVE's life, the players have adopted a number of mottos embodying the true spirit of the game. Some of which include:

Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

Adapt or Die.

Harden the **** up. (HTFU)

Go back to world of warcraft (GB2WoW)

If you are having problems with the playstyle of others, it must be suggested that you refer to the above in order. After exhausting the first three, you may feel like this:

EVE is hard.

At this point of desperation, you may still be tempted to post on the forums about why you're leaving, at which point you will be showered with this well known question:

Can I have your stuff?

Nobody cares that you're leaving because you can't fend for yourself. Sure the Devs may attempt balance things here and there, such as making certain things even harder, but your hand will not be held. They are not being paid to babysit. They are being paid to share their dream with us. That dream includes the pain of significant loss. Many players have had a problem with other players. You are not the first, and you won't be the last. The difference between the wheat and the chaff is: they do something about it. They don't whine.

When Band of Brothers believed that G Alliance had a mothership on the build, they didn't whine for them to be nerfed, they round up others who would fight with them, and sieged EC-P8R 23/7 for a week.

When Goonswarm first started. They weren't the most experienced players, but they had the drive. They took out veteran alliances battleship fleets with rifters. RIFTERS. Look at them today.

So before you post, think about what you're going to say, and if it will even be worth your typing. Please.

I guess you're right. The forums are PVP as well.

Oh good, more alpha male posturing on The Real EVE(tm). Just what we needed!

No one has a problem with the sandbox itself. It's more when other people **** in the sandbox that there's a problem.

Over the course of EVE's life, the players have adopted a number of mottos embodying what they think is the true spirit of the game.

Here, fixed it.

PVP'ers apparently don't grasp this notion.

Miners are free to mine. PVP'ers are free to blow them up. Where lies the problem here?

Welcome to Eve.

You have never sold a mod to an NPC.

EVE is hard

Welcome to Eve.

"EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world." --CCP Wrangler

Nonconsensual Ship combat will not go away. Eve didn't even have sentry guns or CONCORD at the beginning. It is part of the core philosophy of the game.

"All of it occured in the same framework of unrestricted player movement and limitless player choice in a single, shared game universe. As our senior producer put it 'f*cking brilliant'." --CCP Explorer in reference to Burn Jita

You are never really soloing, and you are really always PVPing. Whether you acknowledge this, and how well you do this is your only choice while playing eve. You have never sold a mod to an NPC. Every mineral you mine lowers the value of EVERY other player's minerals. Every rat you pop lowers the isk value of every other players isk. Every sale you make is a sale the other guy didn't make. This is PVP. Player versus Player. This is EVE. Everybody Versus Everybody. They have the right to stop you. If your ship so happens to be in space it is a valid target, no matter what type of ship it is, what part of the cluster it resides, what mods it has fitted, no matter what you think.

Over the course of EVE's life, the players have adopted a number of mottos embodying the true spirit of the game. Some of which include:

Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

Adapt or Die.

Harden the **** up. (HTFU)

Go back to world of warcraft (GB2WoW)

If you are having problems with the playstyle of others, it must be suggested that you refer to the above in order. After exhausting the first three, you may feel like this:

EVE is hard.

At this point of desperation, you may still be tempted to post on the forums about why you're leaving, at which point you will be showered with this well known question:

Can I have your stuff?

Nobody cares that you're leaving because you can't fend for yourself. Sure the Devs may attempt balance things here and there, such as making certain things even harder, but your hand will not be held. They are not being paid to babysit. They are being paid to share their dream with us. That dream includes the pain of significant loss. Many players have had a problem with other players. You are not the first, and you won't be the last. The difference between the wheat and the chaff is: they do something about it. They don't whine.

When Band of Brothers believed that G Alliance had a mothership on the build, they didn't whine for them to be nerfed, they round up others who would fight with them, and sieged EC-P8R 23/7 for a week.

When Goonswarm first started. They weren't the most experienced players, but they had the drive. They took out veteran alliances battleship fleets with rifters. RIFTERS. Look at them today.

So before you post, think about what you're going to say, and if it will even be worth your typing. Please.

Mostly in the fact that a good portion (not all) of the miners are trying very hard to convince CCP to make game changes that would prevent the pvpers from doing so.

What an idiotic OP.

There is no sandbox. There is a single shard game with persistence, but this myth that there is a sandbox is totally nonsense.

What is the sandbox?

Can anyone define what the sandbox is?

Sandbox has become the catchall phrase for explaining why X's playstyle is superior to Y's. Or why Y should go back to WoW or some other game.

It's just more drivel and nonsense.

Eve is not a sandbox any more than any other MMO is a sandbox.

/rant

Greetings

You are correct, no one likes a floater in the sandbox. Unfortunately there will always be people who poop in the sand, but the great thing about it is you can find that person and throw his/her poop right back at them.

I have sold freighters full of commodities to NPCs...




Lol no. EvE is hard-core, which does not mean necessarily it's hard.
Hard core imposes restrictions and generally obstacles on the player progress, which is something EvE abounds with.

Hard = you can win if you are really really good else you'll lose.

OOOOoommmmm... OOOOoooommmm.... I am PVP'ing you with my brain!

vr
East

Mostly in the fact that a good portion (not all) of the miners are trying very hard to convince CCP to make game changes that would prevent the pvpers from doing so.

I just think it's a sad waste to see people being afraid to even attempt to leave the newbie area. Mining is a necessary part of the game. I have mined quite a bit, but have hauled more for mining ops. Ain't nothing wrong with it. What's wrong, is expecting to not get blown up every once in a while. In highsec, you have a reasonable expectation to not get blown up so often, but enough of the playerbase has decided not so with T2 mining barges anymore. Mining in null used to be the shiznit, til people started afking their hulks in hisec so much. I guess people are shaping that sand how they want. Now, if you want to afk mine in Hisec, you have to use covetors or battleships.

What an idiotic rant.

Balls. There are thousands of miners and maybe 20 posted about changing the game.
If you call this a good portion...

Including the Devs:
Permaband - HTFU

Mostly in the fact that a good portion (not all) of the miners are trying very hard to convince CCP to make game changes that would prevent the pvpers from doing so.

So, why you try to change the way ultimate carebear like me plays EVE?

Welcome to Eve.

"EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world." --CCP Wrangler

Nonconsensual Ship combat will not go away. Eve didn't even have sentry guns or CONCORD at the beginning. It is part of the core philosophy of the game.

"All of it occured in the same framework of unrestricted player movement and limitless player choice in a single, shared game universe. As our senior producer put it 'f*cking brilliant'." --CCP Explorer in reference to Burn Jita

You are never really soloing, and you are really always PVPing. Whether you acknowledge this, and how well you do this is your only choice while playing eve. You have never sold a mod to an NPC. Every mineral you mine lowers the value of EVERY other player's minerals. Every rat you pop lowers the isk value of every other players isk. Every sale you make is a sale the other guy didn't make. This is PVP. Player versus Player. This is EVE. Everybody Versus Everybody. They have the right to stop you. If your ship so happens to be in space it is a valid target, no matter what type of ship it is, what part of the cluster it resides, what mods it has fitted, no matter what you think.

Over the course of EVE's life, the players have adopted a number of mottos embodying the true spirit of the game. Some of which include:

Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

Adapt or Die.

Harden the **** up. (HTFU)

Go back to world of warcraft (GB2WoW)

If you are having problems with the playstyle of others, it must be suggested that you refer to the above in order. After exhausting the first three, you may feel like this:

EVE is hard.

At this point of desperation, you may still be tempted to post on the forums about why you're leaving, at which point you will be showered with this well known question:

Can I have your stuff?

Nobody cares that you're leaving because you can't fend for yourself. Sure the Devs may attempt balance things here and there, such as making certain things even harder, but your hand will not be held. They are not being paid to babysit. They are being paid to share their dream with us. That dream includes the pain of significant loss. Many players have had a problem with other players. You are not the first, and you won't be the last. The difference between the wheat and the chaff is: they do something about it. They don't whine.

When Band of Brothers believed that G Alliance had a mothership on the build, they didn't whine for them to be nerfed, they round up others who would fight with them, and sieged EC-P8R 23/7 for a week.

When Goonswarm first started. They weren't the most experienced players, but they had the drive. They took out veteran alliances battleship fleets with rifters. RIFTERS. Look at them today.

So before you post, think about what you're going to say, and if it will even be worth your typing. Please.

Far be it from me or anyone else to tell you to stop letting us blow up your ships.

Here, fixed it.

Mostly in the fact that a good portion (not all) of the miners are trying very hard to convince CCP to make game changes that would prevent the pvpers from doing so.

This one is better.

This one is better.

That goes both ways.

Ho hum. Another everything you do is PVP post. You guys have truly deluded yourselves.

List the non PvP parts of EVE please.

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody.

I didn't make that up. Someone else imagined it first. Post number 13.

So, why you try to change the way ultimate carebear like me plays EVE?

Ho hum. Another everything you do is PVP post. You guys have truly deluded yourselves.

Its true, not everything you do is PVP in eve. Sitting on your butt on your space couch really isn't pvp.

So why can I not can flip noobs in the "sandbox"

O right because it is a sandbox WITH LIMITS....

So ccp can choose what to limit and what to not. I see no reason why HS ganking can not be limited. Here is an idea. Miner can pay concord a SMALL price to come into the belt and sit in it... ALL DAY... boom ganking prices go WAY up as you need WAY more ships.

All the sandbox bullshit needs to stop

You want PVP head over to world of tanks

**** shoots back.

'Cause we feel like it. You can choose to let us change the way you play or not. How you react to other player's influence is entirely up to you.

Let's see.

CCP puts this in-game, all the high-sec risk-averse filth take advantage of this "service" and begin making stupid amounts of risk-free ISK.

These players have ever-further bloated wallets and begin RMT'ing away their winnings because they make so much ISK they don't need to spend all of it on PLEX anymore. They also never lose a ship again, because they can rent security from CONCORD risk-free. PVPers also lose less ships, somewhat lowering the demand for high-sec's one valued commodity: Tritanium.

RMT goes through the roof. People actually playing the risky part of the game can no longer get ahead, even with Technetium. Nobody needs Tech anymore because Hulks aren't popping left and right.

Subs plummet.

EVE becomes a miner wasteland of filthy RMTers who have nobody left to buy their wares.

Your idea is brilliant. Send Hilmar a tweet, this **** is going viral!

Because most of the people banned were in HS right? They were not null RMTs... some PL member -80 billion isk wallet no.

All I read here are TEARS...

Some tech whine... good point it is a tech nerf... + 1 reason to do it... (also rere, hulks are not the only ship that needs tech)

RMT is not going to go up as said... RMT lol... was a null thing mostly...

Please tell me the RISK of mining in null... the biggest risk is the op is so large it is harder to see a hostile come into local... ROFL.

Also how can eve become a wasteland of RMTers?

With only RMT miners... first off the price if mins will go epicly low, second who is going to build stuff for the RMTers to buy?
Who is going to find the deadspace and officer mods?
The whole RMT thing would not even work...

Go learn something ROFL.

O btw...
WAR DEC THEM... o ****... can't pay for wardec protection. But ya a wardec means REALLY danager... effort, COST...

Actually, at fanfest they said that the majority of RMT botters are, in fact, in high-sec.

Congratulations on a great post, I didn't read the rest.

False premises, et al.

EDIT: Caldari High-sec, to be specific.

Just tell me when and I undock my Rokh and warp to nearby asteroid belt.

That indent in your couch is making my experience less pleasant when I come visit SoonGäó

Zhihatsu's couch lightly scratches your butt for 69 points of damage.

So why can I not can flip noobs in the "sandbox"

O right because it is a sandbox WITH LIMITS....

So ccp can choose what to limit and what to not. I see no reason why HS ganking can not be limited. Here is an idea. Miner can pay concord a SMALL price to come into the belt and sit in it... ALL DAY... boom ganking prices go WAY up as you need WAY more ships.

All the sandbox bullshit needs to stop

You want PVP head over to world of tanks

**** shoots back.

Is this a euphemism for something that I am missing here?

Oh good, more alpha male posturing on The Real EVE(tm). Just what we needed!

No one has a problem with the sandbox itself. It's more when other people **** in the sandbox that there's a problem.

No other MMO offers a single shard and a single economy driven by players where it is easily affordable in game or through real world transaction to an in-game currency (PLEX) to instantly kill a player's investment (also including time, money (subscriptions), effort, and long term investment)

The addition of the T3 BC created a gap not compensated for by by the industrial devs (if there are any left) to create ships that can counter effortless instagib.

Single shooting high value ships with a ship as affordable as a destroyer or a T3 BC while suffering no consequences (the laughable buddy system and a game where multiple simultaneous accounts is both accepted and encouraged with 3 characters given to each account) defeats the purpose of the sandbox.

The essence of the sandbox is adaptation - if one kid (alliance) forces you to build your castle with wet sand, you and your buddies turn the tables and build your castle with sand and dirt, more stable. Eve does not allow this and the benefit is being given to the aggressors who work only game mechanics and care nothing for the spirit of the game.

Statistically speaking why would more botters be caught in high-sec than in low-sec?

Are you implying that CCP uses different metrics between the two security levels?

Maybe null doesn't have logs?

Statistically, if more botters are caught in Caldari High-sec than anywhere else, that means that in all likelihood that's where the most botters are.

Edit: I like the part how I'm winning Eve and you tell me I'm losing.

so why dont the hulkageddoners focus on the botting hotspots. players will all lose ships its a given, but when its a bunch of ones and zeros commanding pilotless ships from a basement computer farm to mine 25/8 well thats not a hisec "whiner" or "bear" thats just dirty ass scum. Kill that crap, wipe them out. Theres your holy crusade, now go forth champions.

Also im still failing to understand where all the ungodly wealth supposedly is in highsec mining. pyroxeres? the odd kernite belt? really? 3-4 hours to pay for a covetor, is 10m an hour really that insane? gee all you guys need to play more if 10m per hour is too much

You're assuming we gank you because we don't like what you do. That assumption is faulty.

No other MMO offers a single shard and a single economy driven by players where it is easily affordable in game or through real world transaction to an in-game currency (PLEX) to instantly kill a player's investment (also including time, money (subscriptions), effort, and long term investment)

The addition of the T3 BC created a gap not compensated for by by the industrial devs (if there are any left) to create ships that can counter effortless instagib.

Single shooting high value ships with a ship as affordable as a destroyer or a T3 BC while suffering no consequences (the laughable buddy system and a game where multiple simultaneous accounts is both accepted and encouraged with 3 characters given to each account) defeats the purpose of the sandbox.

A productive system would be one that transects characters and accounts leading to a penalty system that seriously punishes people and their accounts, new or old, related to the incident or not.

The essence of the sandbox is adaptation - if one kid (alliance) forces you to build your castle with wet sand, you and your buddies turn the tables and build your castle with sand and dirt, more stable. Eve does not allow this and the benefit is being given to the aggressors who work only game mechanics and care nothing for the spirit of the game.

perhaps not all gankers, but what about the ones who yell without hesitation how all high sec players need to be killed. They send a pretty loud and clear message. And while im not saying highsec should be immune. I think they should first off realise that high sec mining isnt the bountifull bag of goodness they think (except for 25/8 botters). And that thier not champions of a noble cause. Thier kicking kittens, not really anyhting to be proud off. I respect killmails showing fighting ships a hell of alot more than killmails of hulks, mackinaws and industrials.

dont make high sec safe, but drop the acts of "high sec mining is too rich" and "champions of the light"

Exactly. No other game offers us the chance to prove what we can do in comparison to EVERYONE else who plays this game. Theres no best on this server. There is only the best. And what defines the BEST? Well that depends on what you are trying to do. I have seen enough POSTERS, who are rarer than you'd believe, to see that there are many hulks survivng hulkageddon. There are many mission runners who have never been ganked. There's even a person who's never been podded. WTF?!

The only people who complain about the game on the forums are the ones who can't play it. n00bs. Let me show you when I was a n00b.

the beginning
1
2
lolfunfactorwhileratting

They could be kidding or RPing. Or they could be serious, what do I care?

Nobody's yelling that it's too rich (if they were, disrupting it would be silly, since disruption makes mineral prices go up, thus making it more lucrative). The problem is that miners have gotten used to and subsequently developed a sense of entitlement to the ability to make Isk almost completely AFK. This has lead them to (wrongly) believe that HiSec space should be "safe" or that their untanked Max Yield/Cargo Hulks should be ungankable. This belief has led them to make annoying posts on the forums. These annoying posts on the forums have led to people disliking miners due to their inability to comprehend simple premises of EvE that have not changed since Beta; namely that you are never safe.

I am not saying all of this applies to you, personally. But it does apply to most of the people who are writing threads whinging about getting ganked.

As for respect, if you don't like shooting exhumers, that's totally fine. But you have to admit that ganking exhumers is also totally fine and is at the very least, more effort than AFK mining is. Whether you respect the gankers for their specialized skills (it does take some skill to pull off successful, cost effective ganks) or not is entirely up to you.

i'm not joining the bandwagon of delete guns from highsec. In fact i think im guilty of becoming what i actually hate and that is a person who hates another demographic just cause of how they act. I'll get over myself soon enough i hope. I dont hate the act of blowing stuff up, its just the attitudes the most vocal supporters have. Like thier some sort of CCP/Eve saviour crew.

You may be right it could all be just RP and i might just be making myself look like a big ass fail on these forums. Thats something im willing to eat i guess, just like when i lost my last mining ship. If you look me up on those combat board thingo's you'll see i've had almost no pvp experience. But thats not cause im scared to lose a ship, but mostly cause i havent found an enjoyable means of doing it yet.

For the time being i'll just carry on providing the tools pvpers use to do thier thing, and in another 5 days i'll roll out my own tanked hulk and up the output further

This one is better.

so why dont the hulkageddoners focus on the botting hotspots. players will all lose ships its a given, but when its a bunch of ones and zeros commanding pilotless ships from a basement computer farm to mine 25/8 well thats not a hisec "whiner" or "bear" thats just dirty ass scum. Kill that crap, wipe them out. Theres your holy crusade, now go forth champions.

Also im still failing to understand where all the ungodly wealth supposedly is in highsec mining. pyroxeres? the odd kernite belt? really? 3-4 hours to pay for a covetor, is 10m an hour really that insane? gee all you guys need to play more if 10m per hour is too much

Oh here is a good one. Guy says mining is PVP. Another guy says miners don't want to PVP. Huh?

Hello Spacefriend,

We are not ganking miners so we can pretend to do CCPs job of clearing out miners for them. CCP doesn't need us to hold their hands (but I might just let them if they ask nice and act real gentlemanly about it!)

Also, bots don't whine about being shot on the forums for days after the fact. I'm personally holding out for a bot program that will though~

Take your buddies and claim your own space, make it as strong as you want.

Welcome to Eve.

"EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world." --CCP Wrangler *

Nonconsensual Ship combat will not go away. Eve didn't even have sentry guns or CONCORD at the beginning. It is part of the core philosophy of the game.

"I'm also against the lack of danger and the awful boring times when you are just chugging along and nothing threatens you."
--CCP Oveur, 2004.07.01

"All of it occured in the same framework of unrestricted player movement and limitless player choice in a single, shared game universe. As our senior producer put it 'f*cking brilliant'." --CCP Explorer in reference to Burn Jita

You are never really soloing, and you are really always PVPing. Whether you acknowledge this, and how well you do this is your only choice while playing eve. You have never sold a mod to an NPC. Every mineral you mine lowers the value of EVERY other player's minerals. Every rat you pop lowers the isk value of every other players isk. Every sale you make is a sale the other guy didn't make. This is PVP. Player versus Player. This is EVE. Everybody Versus Everybody. They have the right to stop you. If your ship so happens to be in space it is a valid target, no matter what type of ship it is, what part of the cluster it resides, what mods it has fitted, no matter what you think.

Over the course of EVE's life, the players have adopted a number of mottos embodying the true spirit of the game. Some of which include:

Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

Adapt or Die.

Harden the **** up. (HTFU)

Go back to world of warcraft (GB2WoW)

If you are having problems with the playstyle of others, it must be suggested that you refer to the above in order. After exhausting the first three, you may feel like this:

EVE is hard.

At this point of desperation, you may still be tempted to post on the forums about why you're leaving, at which point you will be showered with this well known question:

Can I have your stuff?

Nobody cares that you're leaving because you can't fend for yourself. Sure the Devs may attempt balance things here and there, such as making certain things even harder, but your hand will not be held. They are not being paid to babysit. They are being paid to share their dream with us. That dream includes the pain of significant loss. Many players have had a problem with other players. You are not the first, and you won't be the last. The difference between the wheat and the chaff is: they do something about it. They don't whine.

When Band of Brothers believed that G Alliance had a mothership on the build, they didn't whine for them to be nerfed, they round up others who would fight with them, and sieged EC-P8R 23/7 for a week.

When Goonswarm first started. They weren't the most experienced players, but they had the drive. They took out veteran alliances battleship fleets with rifters. RIFTERS. Look at them today.

So before you post, think about what you're going to say, and if it will even be worth your typing. Please.

*the actual quote is here as pointed out by Yuda Mann

Get hot-dropped a week later and lose it all...

sigh i typed a huge long post in reply to this but upon clicking post it erased my post and left me with nothing.. im not retyping it all just want to say read my last post, the one you quoted is one where im doing what i hate which is, raging at people raging at people.

im not against stuff blowing up nor am i against protecting my own assets and making them less appealing to the folks who do the blowing up

If that's how strong you want it to be, yes.
If not, then no.

No intelligent person has said " let's remove all the danger from the game" or even just from high sec. What they've said that riles your feathers is that suicide ganking is overpowered, the battles are lopsided, and they need to be re-examined... that's all.

Yeah goon is the new bob... great.

Hulks can be tanked such that they are unprofitable to gank (even counting the GSF bounty, which is not a game mechanic)
Hulks can be flown in such a way that they are impossible to gank without pilot error on the Hulk's part

Suicide Ganks can be disrupted quite easily

The battles are only lopsided because one side doesn't bother putting any effort into the fight because they feel they're entitled to safety without effort.

"horsepuckey"

What is an alliance but an organized group of people? HiSec has people, it just needs to organize.

Go take some shitty sov for a while, use the money you've made from HS's lack of constant ship loss (20% of characters are in Null yet ~50% of ships are lost there) to build up a Cap/Supercap fleet. Learn to fight. Start taking more sov. Expand into mediocre space. Then even into good space.

The last Tech holding coalition was destroyed by a coalition that did not hold any (or at least any significant) tech. It could happen to this one.

What I presented wasn't raging.

It was statistical analysis. And in so doing, I presented a counter-argument to a logical fallacy based on bad stats analysis.

I am sorry if my facts appeared like raging to you. I clearly wasn't. I hope after stepping away from the keyboard and taking some chill pills you can now see this.

LOL @ the thought of that quote being raging.

Thanks Ruby - I really needed to snort soda through my nose! GODDAM that's funny **** right there man! You should go into standup!

Thanks Ruby - I really needed to snort soda through my nose! GODDAM that's funny **** right there man! You should go into standup!

Thank you.

Drone space is pretty damn empty right now, it would be as easy as anything to get a semi decent corp together, head out there and join a small alliance, get your own system with 16 Hordes and earn a buttload of isk, build better ships and do those things

The irony of the case is, this post is literally the reason you will never hold sov space. You are so terrified of potential failure and are so sure already that you can't do it that you never will. I hate to break it to you, but the CFC never got the sov they have now by being the victims and it wasn't handed down to us by CCP on high. We went in rifters and we took what is ours. We lost it several times and several times we carved out something new. All without the aid of all of this glorious tech wealth we are now enjoying. You're a big kid though, if you think EVE is too hard for you, then you can stay in the shallow end of the pool. I hear its safer over there.

Yeah - I'll just round up 2500 friends and go roflstomp... oh wait... Supercaps/Caps... yeah, let me get started on that, see you in a couple years.

What he described is entirely accurate and the only thing that is stopping you is you.

What is stopping me is lack of interest.

In other words: you.

Also, good: then you can stop with the silly excuses.

One of the great things i like about Eve is the ability to troll people. It's cheap laughs are often very good :)
Another awesome thing about eve is if you don't like one part of it, or it gets boring, or something happens, just go and do something else!

- Mission running
- high sec mining
- incursions
- manufacturing
- BPs
- Sov warfare
- Roams
- NPC space fights
- wormhole ops
- WH living
- Trading

So many things to do i think the only people who leave are people who get bored too easily.

What is stopping me is lack of interest.

You're right, whining and crying on the forums about how Goons are ruining your game is much more interesting than taking the fight to your tormentors.

No kid... This is where I "got into the deep end", so I don't need a video game to do it.

Wow, you bombed the barracks? I'm not sure you should say such things on a public forum.

Unfortunately there will always be people who poop in the sand...

What is stopping me is lack of interest.

So why complain about the people who are interested?

If someone ***** in your sandbox, light it on fire, grab your shovel, and throw it back at them.

I will never look at the Auction House in WoW the same way again.

Don't know where that came from, or the crack about me whining about GS...

but ok...

I will never look at the Auction House in WoW the same way again.

Nobody's yelling that it's too rich (if they were, disrupting it would be silly, since disruption makes mineral prices go up, thus making it more lucrative). The problem is that miners have gotten used to and subsequently developed a sense of entitlement to the ability to make Isk almost completely AFK. This has lead them to (wrongly) believe that HiSec space should be "safe" or that their untanked Max Yield/Cargo Hulks should be ungankable. This belief has led them to make annoying posts on the forums. These annoying posts on the forums have led to people disliking miners due to their inability to comprehend simple premises of EvE that have not changed since Beta; namely that you are never safe.

Go back and look - you won't find a whining post from me. Keep swinging your NPC bat though, you look cute in that Ministry of War uniform!

Noticing your posts in other threads, I may have conflated you with other posters. Sorry.

And round and round we go. What you are not getting is that the AFK aspect is why some people do mining and other AFK-able pursuits in EVE. If they can't do it, they won't "learn" anything else, they'll just leave.

And you can bet your bottom dollar that CCP wants to have such players in the game. Otherwise mining would not be as it is - it's pretty obviously designed to be one part of the game that's AFK-friendly. Their money is as good as your average EVE mini-me Nietzsche's money

The whingeing (so far as I can see) is not about being ganked per se, it's about a concerted perma-campaign to grief miners.

A player who likes AFK playing has already accepted the compact that they'll occasionally be ganked. Even Hulkageddon per se was cool, because a canny player might take advantage of it, and anyone who was really risk-averse could just sit it out. But a perma-campaign? I doubt it will really do much good in the long run.

I think some of you guys have your heads so far up your metagame that you forget that there are plenty players of EVE for whom such concerns are meaningless, they just want to potter about in a space game. Now, anyone who wants to potter about in EVE to the extent of subscribing to it has to have accepted that they're never absolutely safe (otherwise they really are an idiot), but an OOC campaign specifically targeted against them (for the sake of someone else's silly metagame) is a whole different enchilada.

The imperceptible shift in EVE from a virtual world (where the omnipresent danger is part of the lore) to a game in which winning at all costs is all that matters, is a huge mistake.

It's a monumental stupidity to try to turn EVE into "LOL in Space".

I don't see anything in that post about "post with your main" or any variation thereof. So what are you talking about?