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Anahid Brutus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.03 10:18:00 - [91] Originally by: Lord Delacroix to me it seems that the players in dominating alliances forgot where the fun is at. for me its pvp. seeing that number in your wallet grow makes you happy? C U ON TEH BATTLEFIELD ONCE DOMINION COMES Too bad you're not going to get people showing up to fights that aren't just pure ganks unless there is something to gain. Not like T2 loot is worth anything compared to the hulls lost. Originally by: Nadrina Shu Originally by: Anahid Brutus Wishful thinking. There are very, very few groups in this game willing to hold space if it doesn't involve r64s. Goonfleet has tried giving away stations, systems and even regions without a single group rising up to receive it. Now THAT'S funny....and tell us, why would anyone TRUST Goons to just go ahead and GIVE them anything? Well, people did trust us and we held up our end when we gave away parts of geminate and drone regions. But that's about the only thing we managed to give away. Places like detorid, tenerifis, feyth and omist were eventually just abandoned. Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab It's been explicitly stated by a dev that upgrades would also reveal more sites for mining. We already concluded that you have to be a special kind of stupid to bother mining in 0.0, do try to keep up Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass TLDR The ultra lucrative parts of space need to get nerfed so there's some actual chance of competition. Right now we have a few alliances squating on gold mines while they get fat and bloated. Income should require some work, or losses don't mean anything. Except those gold mines were far from free and required more effort than anyone else were willing to put up. The problem is that those are all large scale objectives that can't possibly get regularly contested/disrupted by smaller groups of players.
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2009.10.03 10:29:00 - [92] Originally by: Anahid Brutus quote]Except those gold mines were far from free and required more effort than anyone else were willing to put up. The problem is that those are all large scale objectives that can't possibly get regularly contested/disrupted by smaller groups of players. Exactly the problem. They were free to the first people to move in. I mean look at bob once they were entrenched. How many times did everyone go after them and they dug in like a giant toad in his mudhole. The only reason bob went down was they got stabbed from inside. As it is now, new organizations can't get a foot hold to even dream of getting started. Goons didn't start off big. Neither did any of the other giants that are or have come and gone. Ya'll just came first, when it was possible to start small. Size and wealth have a way of snowballing in case you hadn't noticed. I mean look at Atlas, they are doin pretty good. They got thier start from a drone region give away. Anymore though you can't even get started. Everyone is too big and too rich. The only thing to do is wait for one of the big guys to go down from the inside and then have friends to set you up with thier leftovers.
Tyyfyr	Posted - 2009.10.03 11:09:00 - [93] Edited by: Tyyfyr on 03/10/2009 11:09:24 Originally by: Kal'breth Naitalin Simple fact boils down to one thing, money. Currently, CCP is not gaining customers it is losing them. New players do not have the chance a person that started new 2 or 3 years ago did. They can not afford to play in the game, so why pay for a game in which you can not really expand. This expansion in my opinion will help eliminate this issue. It allows new players, smaller corps and factions the ability to compete. Yes it will cut down on the conflicts, however there is always some kind of confict in a game of this nature. very accurate reasoning imho
Solid Prefekt Haven Front	Posted - 2009.10.03 11:12:00 - [94] Originally by: Anahid Brutus Wishful thinking. There are very, very few groups in this game willing to hold space if it doesn't involve r64s. Goonfleet has tried giving away stations, systems and even regions without a single group rising up to receive it. The only reason some outposts are even Sov'ed is so hostiles cant use them to stage from. So you think very few groups will try to hold space and (based on your other posts) we will not have big fights and less pvp in nullsec as there is no reason without the r64s? I am quoting this for preservation so I can come back to it for a good laugh after Dominion comes out. I wish I had a million isk every time someone said a new release was going to kill pvp.
Zhou Zhen	Posted - 2009.10.03 11:37:00 - [95] I'm kinda new but I spend a lot of time in Providence. I've not seen much POS warfare or the like there, I hear it is pretty bad in resources. However this does not stop constant stream of raiders and such that hit and run systems and even roll through them. It is very hard to find anytime of the day in which some group or another is not raiding one or more systems. The current system cannot sustain a larger player base, so CCP has hit a kinda bottleneck. Without introducing this new system and thus increasing the supply of rare minerals they've hit a point where the game cannot expand its player base. It however I don't think will stop fighting as we see plenty of it in Providence.
Mopsy Six	Posted - 2009.10.03 11:48:00 - [96] Dominion is only going to make some people a bit poorer and some a bit more rich. Wars will still happen, people will fight, hopefully there's going to be more ships to blow up for ev'rybody. We're facing an expansion that can finally populate 0.0 space. Last thing that can happen is EVE not being worth playing. Whoever you're quoting really took it way too far. I'm not an expert on EVE politics, so could someone please point out a conflict that happened becouse one alliance wanted a particular rich system for themselves, recently.
Eliza Farcaster Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2009.10.03 12:15:00 - [97] Providence is a special case, roleplayers and friends like to fight there. It's not a typical 0.0.
Brachis Caldari Eve Liberation Force Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2009.10.03 12:40:00 - [98] I love how this topic degenerates into the age-old debate of keeping the EVE status quo in the hands of the older, stable, powerhouse alliances or expanding mechanics to allow newer, un-entrenched groups the opportunity to dig in roots so that they can grow to be powerhouses in their own right. The problem is that the status quo in that so many people are fond of stagnates the gameplay. The EVE economy has always been a slippery slope where the rich become richer and the poor struggle to break even. Small alliances that could, theoretically, prosper and grow rarely get the chance to because of how bloated the current sovereignty mechanics allow the large alliances to be without worry of significant loss. The only threat to large, stable alliances has always been other large, stable alliances. I think a lot of people underestimate how these new mechanics will unfold, and underestimate CCP's willingness to go back and change things if they push the game in a poor direction. You have to understand that while a lot of changes aren't going to be in the favor of the old-school "hardcore" fanbase, that doesn't mean the ideas and changes are bad. If they allow EVE to evolve into a better, more playable, more approachable game, that's a good thing. I think a lot of EVE players fear the idea of EVE becoming a larger game because an influx of "noobs" into the galaxy makes the game feel less elite. Just because it makes you feel cool to play and be successful in a game that is "too hard" for many players doesn't mean that it's how the game should be. Really, the new sovereignty mechanics and the way infrastructure will interact with them is most likely more robust (or will grow to be more robust) than we're giving CCP credit for. Infrastructure won't be something we will just be able to funnel money into and eventually "cap out" the entire EVE universe. Surely there will be ways to damage the infrastructure of enemy alliances (DUST, anyone?), or we'll find that the economic infrastructure of systems will degrade over time if the system is constantly stricken by warfare and changing hands. Change is a good thing, because it means our game is evolving into something bigger and better. You may think that making EVE approachable by "casual" players is a death knell for the EVE we know... but that's a good thing. The game needs to grow in a direction that is both a viable business model as well as being the vision of the game that CCP wants it to be. And really, CCP knows better than we do what their vision for their game is. - "I do this with but one small ship and I am called a terrorist... you do it with an entire fleet and are called an Emperor."
Anahid Brutus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.03 14:33:00 - [99] haha, so just saw the fanfest dominion upgrades presentation and i was right, they're really going for ratting/plex/mining site spawn rate upgrades and nothing else, and you'll STILL be able to cynojam systems holy ****, who would be this dumb? whats that? seleene and the enslaver are now employed at CCP as game desginers? ghahahahahahahahaahahaahahahaahahahaha
JitaPriceChecker2	Posted - 2009.10.03 14:51:00 - [100] Originally by: Anahid Brutus haha, so just saw the fanfest dominion upgrades presentation and i was right, they're really going for ratting/plex/mining site spawn rate upgrades and nothing else, and you'll STILL be able to cynojam systems holy ****, who would be this dumb? whats that? seleene and the enslaver are now employed at CCP as game desginers? ghahahahahahahahaahahaahahahaahahahaha you mean you cant get afk dozens of billions of isk anymore , you have to actully farm isk like everybody else . you mean you cant just fleet off caps like they were rifters and doesnt give a crap when they got blown up. Everything is better then current status.
Anahid Brutus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.03 15:00:00 - [101] Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Originally by: Anahid Brutus haha, so just saw the fanfest dominion upgrades presentation and i was right, they're really going for ratting/plex/mining site spawn rate upgrades and nothing else, and you'll STILL be able to cynojam systems holy ****, who would be this dumb? whats that? seleene and the enslaver are now employed at CCP as game desginers? ghahahahahahahahaahahaahahahaahahahaha you mean you cant get afk dozens of billions of isk anymore , you have to actully farm isk like everybody else . you mean you cant just fleet off caps like they were rifters and doesnt give a crap when they got blown up. Everything is better then current status. well, unless you're an old alliance of course, in which case you already have all those cap ships ready to go, you might even have 2 full fleets, or at least both dreads and carriers. You're right about new players though, they'll never even have the chance to make that kind of isk and will simply never be able to catch up. Awesome, 0.0 just got even more stagnant by physically shutting out all new players from ever seriously competing.
JitaPriceChecker2	Posted - 2009.10.03 15:08:00 - [102] Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 03/10/2009 15:10:27 Originally by: Anahid Brutus Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Originally by: Anahid Brutus haha, so just saw the fanfest dominion upgrades presentation and i was right, they're really going for ratting/plex/mining site spawn rate upgrades and nothing else, and you'll STILL be able to cynojam systems holy ****, who would be this dumb? whats that? seleene and the enslaver are now employed at CCP as game desginers? ghahahahahahahahaahahaahahahaahahahaha you mean you cant get afk dozens of billions of isk anymore , you have to actully farm isk like everybody else . you mean you cant just fleet off caps like they were rifters and doesnt give a crap when they got blown up. Everything is better then current status. well, unless you're an old alliance of course, in which case you already have all those cap ships ready to go, you might even have 2 full fleets, or at least both dreads and carriers. You're right about new players though, they'll never even have the chance to make that kind of isk and will simply never be able to catch up. Awesome, 0.0 just got even more stagnant by physically shutting out all new players from ever seriously competing. Yeah old alliance will still have advantage , they have earned it. But now when their cap ship blows they cant insta buy it from afk moon gold. They have to work for it like everyone else. At least that how i understand CCP design. And could you tell me how , new players seriously competing in 0.0 atm ?
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2009.10.03 15:08:00 - [103] Matrix Skye walks in and accidentally slips and falls Thump! "Ouch!" Upon closer inspection he notices the floor is flooded with goon tears! Matrix puts up the following sign:
Anahid Brutus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.03 15:14:00 - [104] Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 03/10/2009 15:10:27 Originally by: Anahid Brutus Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Originally by: Anahid Brutus haha, so just saw the fanfest dominion upgrades presentation and i was right, they're really going for ratting/plex/mining site spawn rate upgrades and nothing else, and you'll STILL be able to cynojam systems holy ****, who would be this dumb? whats that? seleene and the enslaver are now employed at CCP as game desginers? ghahahahahahahahaahahaahahahaahahahaha you mean you cant get afk dozens of billions of isk anymore , you have to actully farm isk like everybody else . you mean you cant just fleet off caps like they were rifters and doesnt give a crap when they got blown up. Everything is better then current status. well, unless you're an old alliance of course, in which case you already have all those cap ships ready to go, you might even have 2 full fleets, or at least both dreads and carriers. You're right about new players though, they'll never even have the chance to make that kind of isk and will simply never be able to catch up. Awesome, 0.0 just got even more stagnant by physically shutting out all new players from ever seriously competing. Yeah old alliance will still have advantage , they have earned it. But now when their cap ship blows they cant insta buy it from afk moon gold. They have to work for it like everyone else. At least that how i understand CCP design. And could you tell me how , new players seriously competing in 0.0 atm ? atlas, ROL and sys-k all managed to carve out some space the last couple months.
Aurora Nyx State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.10.03 15:52:00 - [105] Edited by: Aurora Nyx on 03/10/2009 15:52:41 Why is it that every single 0.0 thread turns into a cry-fest, a political debate, an e-peen stretch, or a drawn-out Goon bash ? Hardly suprising so many choose to stay out of 0.0 , it's always painted in such a bad light. edit:spelling
Lord Delacroix	Posted - 2009.10.03 16:55:00 - [106] Originally by: Anahid Brutus atlas, ROL and sys-k all managed to carve out some space the last couple months. ROL - new players? u mad? its just a fragment of the old RA + new russians that joined over the time. Atlas has been around for years and somebody had to take omist once TCF left. AAA let them have it. and sys-k is just another name of yet-another italian alliance.
goazer Amarr Dark Amarr Brotherhood	Posted - 2009.10.03 17:02:00 - [107] Originally by: Holly Hotdrop hello m8s, i found this on another eve related bored and thought it might be interesting: Quote: if the players themselves can improve systems then all the players will be able to do it with all systems, making any kind of upgrade worthless on the basis of abundant competition. for some reason ccp doesn't understand that scarce resources creates conflict and have been trying their hardest to cut down on things to fight over. for example, scarcity of good mining systems -> wrecked by drone regions, scarcity of good plexes -> ruined by exploration, wormspace -> literally impossible to fight over, r64s -> about to be nerfed to nothing this isn't just some random patch introducing some new game element, this is has been done systematic for years, turning it into some kind of wow thing. it's weird as hell and we should probably be taking it as a hint that eve wont be worth playing for much longer. so , what do u guys thinK? Who care about moons? We blow **** up, that's we do
Raquel Smith Caldari Freedom-Technologies	Posted - 2009.10.03 17:51:00 - [108] Originally by: Holly Hotdrop hello m8s, i found this on another eve related bored and thought it might be interesting: Quote: if the players themselves can improve systems then all the players will be able to do it with all systems, making any kind of upgrade worthless on the basis of abundant competition. for some reason ccp doesn't understand that scarce resources creates conflict and have been trying their hardest to cut down on things to fight over. for example, scarcity of good mining systems -> wrecked by drone regions, scarcity of good plexes -> ruined by exploration, wormspace -> literally impossible to fight over, r64s -> about to be nerfed to nothing this isn't just some random patch introducing some new game element, this is has been done systematic for years, turning it into some kind of wow thing. it's weird as hell and we should probably be taking it as a hint that eve wont be worth playing for much longer. so , what do u guys thinK? I think it's stupid. People will want upgraded systems so they don't have to pay to upgrade their own. -- Creator of The Ruby API Library
Anahid Brutus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.03 18:16:00 - [109] Originally by: Raquel Smith I think it's stupid. People will want upgraded systems so they don't have to pay to upgrade their own. And if you looked at the fanfest presentation you'd know that all the upgrades are **(possible exception being the supercap hangar that they wont release so uhhh) and even if people did upgrade then with the new way sov works that's intended to counter space sprawl then chances are that actually holding stations across multiple regions will be hard. But whatever, the most important part here is that the upgrades did in fact turn out to be utterly worthless, as predicted. Originally by:** Lord Delacroix Originally by: Anahid Brutus atlas, ROL and sys-k all managed to carve out some space the last couple months. ROL - new players? u mad? its just a fragment of the old RA + new russians that joined over the time. Atlas has been around for years and somebody had to take omist once TCF left. AAA let them have it. and sys-k is just another name of yet-another italian alliance. the fact is that they were new alliances that managed to carve out a piece of space for themselves.
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2009.10.03 18:27:00 - [110] Originally by: Anahid Brutus Originally by: Raquel Smith I think it's stupid. People will want upgraded systems so they don't have to pay to upgrade their own. And if you looked at the fanfest presentation you'd know that all the upgrades are **(possible exception being the supercap hangar that they wont release so uhhh) and even if people did upgrade then with the new way sov works that's intended to counter space sprawl then chances are that actually holding stations across multiple regions will be hard. But whatever, the most important part here is that the upgrades did in fact turn out to be utterly worthless, as predicted. Originally by:** Lord Delacroix Originally by: Anahid Brutus atlas, ROL and sys-k all managed to carve out some space the last couple months. ROL - new players? u mad? its just a fragment of the old RA + new russians that joined over the time. Atlas has been around for years and somebody had to take omist once TCF left. AAA let them have it. and sys-k is just another name of yet-another italian alliance. the fact is that they were new alliances that managed to carve out a piece of space for themselves. I love posts like this. Saving this for posterity, and future "wow, did you have your head up your butt" posting fun. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Karlemgne Tides Of War	Posted - 2009.10.03 19:39:00 - [111] Edited by: Karlemgne on 03/10/2009 19:45:37 Edited by: Karlemgne on 03/10/2009 19:39:11 Spoken like someone who has an substantial material interest in preserving the current resource allocation arrangement + sov system in game. Having something to fight over is all well and good, but the current arrangement of eve resources linked with the sovereignty system does anything BUT encourage fights. Mostly it solidifies power in the hands of the few large alliances and alliance blocs that exist while preventing smaller entities from participating in the 0.0 alliance game at all. The isk factory moon gold stacks the economic advantage hugely in favor of the established entities. Who can "fight" you over your space when you can field 40 Titans and have wave after wave of throw away cap fleets? What is more, the sov system stacks the odds so heavily in the favor of the "defender" the only way to really defeat one of these large alliances is to get lucky enough to get someone in a holding corp to "disband" an alliance. If the great war has told us anything, it is this. In the current system, a rich alliance can half-assedly defend its space against 5x its number--when its opponents are composed of the other super RICH alliances--unless some lucky underhanded thing destroys sov. So to me, when I see this thread complaining about there being nothing to "fight over" with the new changes a few things come to mind. First and foremost not a lot of fighting over the resources as they are allocated now is taking place anyway. Second, when entities like the Goons complain that they want things the same to give something for people to fight over, I have to laugh... the advantage is so stacked in their favor at this point you might as well make an analogy to real life here. What you are essentially arguing for is that the system be maintained, because, you know its like RL. There are hundreds of countries in the world and they are all in a position to fight the United States (or the West in general) over the earth's limited resources. ****... Florida is in danger of a Haitian invasion for just such a reason.... In the final analysis this is a game, not an empire sim for a couple big alliances. Anything that balances the game in such a way as it gives the little guy, the medium sized guy, or the new guy a shot at entering and participating in the 0.0 facet of the game--even though I would NEVER participate in it--is a good thing. CCP, luckily, are professional game makers who've identified a balance issue and are trying to correct it. So good on them. And Goon tears taste the sweetest of all. My sig don't fracking work.
Anahid Brutus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.03 19:40:00 - [112] Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Anahid Brutus Originally by: Raquel Smith I think it's stupid. People will want upgraded systems so they don't have to pay to upgrade their own. And if you looked at the fanfest presentation you'd know that all the upgrades are **(possible exception being the supercap hangar that they wont release so uhhh) and even if people did upgrade then with the new way sov works that's intended to counter space sprawl then chances are that actually holding stations across multiple regions will be hard. But whatever, the most important part here is that the upgrades did in fact turn out to be utterly worthless, as predicted. Originally by:** Lord Delacroix Originally by: Anahid Brutus atlas, ROL and sys-k all managed to carve out some space the last couple months. ROL - new players? u mad? its just a fragment of the old RA + new russians that joined over the time. Atlas has been around for years and somebody had to take omist once TCF left. AAA let them have it. and sys-k is just another name of yet-another italian alliance. the fact is that they were new alliances that managed to carve out a piece of space for themselves. I love posts like this. Saving this for posterity, and future "wow, did you have your head up your butt" posting fun. No, you see, it'll be me quoting you for future posterity. Lemme give you a quote from the fanfest presentation: NPC 0.0 space is fully upgraded Ok, so when people run out of NPC 0.0 to use then people will start to consider using the outpost upgrades. So how much NPC 0.0 is there available? Well, as anyone who has been to npc 0.0 will tell you, A FREAKEN LOT. Hey CCP, your customers are generally idiots who don't know what they want, stop listening to them and especially stop recruiting from them.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.10.03 19:41:00 - [113] I imagine the new fun for alliance pew pew operations will be making sure the territory you can't afford to claim stays unclaimed. Quote: [03:39:05] Emperor Salazar > HOLY **** ITS ZEBA [03:39:20] Emperor Salazar > NEVER STOP POASTING Zeba is the BEST! ~Mitnal
Anahid Brutus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.03 19:48:00 - [114] Originally by: Zeba I imagine the new fun for alliance pew pew operations will be making sure the territory you can't afford to claim stays unclaimed. Haha, yeah that sounds like awesome fun woot wootles wootttte i love just shooting stations and **** ahaha awesome kill yourslef IRL4ever
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2009.10.03 19:49:00 - [115] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 03/10/2009 19:50:32 And you really think that NPC space is going to be more valuable than developed player sov'ed space? Time will tell I suppose, but your statement that the benefits of developing space is worthless is questionable at best. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Karlemgne Tides Of War	Posted - 2009.10.03 19:50:00 - [116] Originally by: Anahid Brutus Originally by: Zeba I imagine the new fun for alliance pew pew operations will be making sure the territory you can't afford to claim stays unclaimed. Haha, yeah that sounds like awesome fun woot wootles wootttte i love just shooting stations and **** ahaha awesome kill yourslef IRL4ever Goon tears are OH so sweet. Keep them raining. My sig don't fracking work.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.10.03 19:58:00 - [117] Originally by: Anahid Brutus Originally by: Zeba I imagine the new fun for alliance pew pew operations will be making sure the territory you can't afford to claim stays unclaimed. Haha, yeah that sounds like awesome fun woot wootles wootttte i love just shooting stations and **** ahaha awesome kill yourslef IRL4ever You really don't have any idea what is going to happen after Dominon hits do you? Poor Goonies. It looks like the brain bees have been leaving the worker bees out of the loop yet again and just told them to 'Keep poasting it will be all right! Promise!' Quote: [03:39:05] Emperor Salazar > HOLY **** ITS ZEBA [03:39:20] Emperor Salazar > NEVER STOP POASTING Zeba is the BEST! ~Mitnal
Anahid Brutus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.10.03 20:01:00 - [118] Originally by: Ranger 1 your statement that the benefits of developing space is worthless is questionable at best. yeah totally questionable, despite csm meetings and fanfest presentations laying out detailed plans of what the upgrades will do and how the will effect system quality. Originally by: Zeba Edited by: Zeba on 03/10/2009 19:58:23 Originally by: Anahid Brutus Originally by: Zeba I imagine the new fun for alliance pew pew operations will be making sure the territory you can't afford to claim stays unclaimed. Haha, yeah that sounds like awesome fun woot wootles wootttte i love just shooting stations and **** ahaha awesome kill yourslef IRL4ever You really don't have any idea what is going to happen after Dominon hits do you? Yeah, well, it turns out that CCP messed with the values of R64s and now the R64 that's actually the MOST abundant in Delve/querious will be the most valuble one, so I guess we'll manage after all! If this thread was about farming dumb moons that is.
britishfish Minmatar Gladiators of Rage Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.10.03 20:03:00 - [119]
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2009.10.03 20:06:00 - [120] Originally by: britishfish Don't forget a Tech 2 Mop to clean up the mess already on the floor.

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