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Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.10.10 18:12:00 - [1] Edited by: Ray McCormack on 10/10/2009 18:13:02 Message From The Board and Staff Yet again we find ourselves coming to you revealing the failings of previous members. These next two individual's actions are as shocking to us as they will be to you. Nothing excuses what they have done, and we can only, yet again, reiterate our commitment to making this right. Anastasia Heron Last weekend Anastasia Heron was asked to step down from the Board, but invited to remain on as a staff member. It was quickly apparent she held that offer in little regard, and last night posted that she would be returning the remaining assets from her venture (that hasn't paid any interest in at least six months) minus the value of her two bank accounts. Effectively she has stolen billions of ISK from depositors, and attempts to justify it as follows: Quote: Ray asked me to do the right and expedient thing and give the bank's assets in RAR back to the bank. Under the heading "Good for the goose, good for the gander", I'm also going to do the right and expedient thing and make sure I get my assets back to me. Given that I think that EBank will never be in the position to return my account balance of approximately 10.5 billion ISK back to me, I will do the expedient thing for myself (you may question that it's the right thing, given that so many people may not get their ISK back at all). So I'm taking of EBank's what belongs to me out of what is mine that actually belongs to EBank. I hope that makes sense. Anastasia was as useless as a Director as she is unjustified in this action. She voted and agreed with the account freeze, but for some reason does not feel she should be held to the same standards as the customers she failed. Mr Horizontal On 2009-01-22 03:48:00.000 Mr Horizontal faked 10 deposits into the bank's back-end, totalling 90b ISK. He also opened up new savings accounts for himself, after the board had voted to stop issuing them (he acknowledges this). The following characters had 9b deposited into each of their sweep accounts on the above date: bella'donna F0XY fullymental General Exception Gilbo Gnarrkilly marshal general Sir Javelin skulled TARDI5 He claims the deposits are real, that they were done via the API after being sent to EBANK Ricdic, however each deposit has the exact same timestamp recorded in the transactions table. A brief check of all other 31 thousand odd deposits reveals none share the exact same timestamp, in fact due to the process of how they are captured it is a near impossibility. A feature of most relational databases is an identity column, which automatically increments for each new row. As seen on the left of this screenshot, his inserts dated 2009-01-22 were done on the 3rd of February. On the right of that screenshot you will notice the identity of his inserts is out with those of the same depositdate, and the inconsistency in the balance column suggest they in fact never occurred. This screenshot further highlights the anomalies of his 'deposits'. Another interesting piece of evidence is a result of a bug in the API code on the website, it stored information with the local time of the server, rather than GMT. Thus the vast majority of deposits actually hit our database with a datetime in the transactions table before their depositdate as recorded in the journaldeposits table. Another quick check of the database reveals only 2,621 out of 31,390 deposits have gone in after, most due to API outages, patch deploys, etc. His going in mere minutes after being sent in-game, and also going in well after the surrounding deposits that would have been done on the same pull, suggest nothing else but that he faked these transactions. (continued)
Ray McCormack Kisoken Innovations	Posted - 2009.10.10 18:18:00 - [2] (continued) I could further list a litany of evidence supporting the fact that Mr H knowingly attempted to steal 90b from the bank. Unfortunately in further investigations we discovered he had previously faked a 5.5b deposit for his character Mari3 Curi3, and had managed to withdraw at least 3.3b of this. A full investigation of his accounts is under way, as well as the accounts of those individuals he was/is close to. Needless to say the accounts in question will be zeroed. Some people call me the space cowboy, yeah
Fitz VonHeise Eye Bee Em	Posted - 2009.10.10 18:21:00 - [3] For what is it worth... I'll be adding these people you listed above to my Thieves list. (Unless they change their mind and post it here) Services I Provide: Alliance Creation ● Caldari Standings ● Thieves Of EvE ● Titans ● My Links What Makes Me Tick
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.10.10 18:23:00 - [4] I just want to stick my head in here and say that I am involved in this investigation. I was approached a couple of days ago by Ray, who wanted to know if I had any backup of the database. As it turned out, I had a 4-5 month old backup. I was asked to confirm a couple of transactions, as seen in the screenshots above, which I was able to confirm. The fact that the data is the same in the backup of mine, compared to the live server, suggests that the data hasnÆt been modified. This means that if the evidence was planted on Mr. Horizontal, it would have had to be done 5 months ago. The fact that thereÆs nothing beyond minutes in the datetime values for the deposit, and that the value is the same for all deposits, suggests that they were made in a single query. Also itÆs important to note that the deposit code only run once an hour. As can be seen from the screenshot, it ran at 02:11, 03:11 and 04:11. Not at 03:48. In conclusion, thereÆs no question in my mind that the deposits in question were faked and were done so on purpose.
Solisk Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.10.10 18:26:00 - [5] Edited by: Solisk on 10/10/2009 18:30:34 So, two more director scandals. The remaining directors must feel pretty betrayed.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.10.10 18:27:00 - [6] GJ Ray. Keep up the good work!
Xtreem Gallente Knockaround Guys Inc.	Posted - 2009.10.10 18:31:00 - [7] EBank is really getting hit recently :(
Lecherito	Posted - 2009.10.10 18:31:00 - [8] Woot, more epic md elite failures. This just gets better and better -L
Lagn Gita	Posted - 2009.10.10 18:31:00 - [9] Originally by: Solisk Edited by: Solisk on 10/10/2009 18:30:34 So, two more director scandals. The remaining directors must feel pretty betrayed. or worried that there scams will be found next....
Shitz	Posted - 2009.10.10 18:39:00 - [10] more proof the comical folly of giving your internetz monies to a bunch of wanabee bankers. well you have succeeded in one element of banker RP at least Ray&Co, you have mastered the art of pulling the wool over peoples eyes as you orchestrate mass theft. epic lolz all round at how many Eve players were prepared to RP themselves into your ponzi victims!
Spaztick Terminal Impact Kairakau	Posted - 2009.10.10 18:44:00 - [11] Best scam I've seen in EVE yet, especially considering how long it's been running. 10/10, would approve again.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.10.10 18:47:00 - [12] A number of people seem to have ignored where it said that Mr. Horizontal did NOT withdraw the 90bill. Hence, the 90bill was never lost. At this point in time, those deposits accounts for just over 100bill of our deficit. Between the two directors, we have "only" lost 10bill or so.
Solisk Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.10.10 18:47:00 - [13] Originally by: ****z more proof the comical folly of giving your internetz monies to a bunch of wanabee bankers. well you have succeeded in one element of banker RP at least Ray&Co, you have mastered the art of pulling the wool over peoples eyes as you orchestrate mass theft. epic lolz all round at how many Eve players were prepared to RP themselves into your ponzi victims! Winning post in this thread so far!
Mme Pinkerton Caldari	Posted - 2009.10.10 18:51:00 - [14] EBANK employees have obviously felt the need to extract compensation surpassing their (token-) wages from a venture they invested lots of time & energy in and you react by freezing employees' wages and account balances. Please explain - how does this work out? " Credit is the economic judgement on the morality of a man. "
Benedic The Aftermath	Posted - 2009.10.10 18:53:00 - [15] I am personally shocked and appalled that anyone was stupid enough to have money in ebank in the first place.
OwlManAtt Gallente Yasashii Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.10.10 18:59:00 - [16] Originally by: Mme Pinkerton EBANK employees have obviously felt the need to extract compensation surpassing their (token-) wages from a venture they invested lots of time & energy in and you react by freezing employees' wages and account balances. Please explain - how does this work out? I think you missed the part where their board was asleep at the wheel and never noticed any of the ridiculous things that were going on and yet ~75b ISK worth of salaries got paid out? I mean, if your job is to, say, make sure the bank didn't give out a 275b loan with no collateral or any assurance that it would be repaid beyond "i swear~!"...and you don't catch that but still get your pay for that period, you miiiight not have earned it. Maybe. Does this statement make you feel like they've earned their pay? Originally by: Ray McCormack It is possible the bank has been running at a deficit since its inception û we have no evidence to disprove this. --- Owl
Solisk Gallente HyperFang Aquisitions And Logistics New Eden Retail Federation	Posted - 2009.10.10 19:04:00 - [17] Is it possible that Mr. H made more fraudulent deposits in the past to other alt accounts?
Nomenne	Posted - 2009.10.10 19:08:00 - [18] Originally by: LaVista Vista A number of people seem to have ignored where it said that Mr. Horizontal did NOT withdraw the 90bill. Hence, the 90bill was never lost. At this point in time, those deposits accounts for just over 100bill of our deficit. Between the two directors, we have "only" lost 10bill or so. So essentially, what you're saying is that this makes the EBANK deficit 90B less than what it used to be?
Mme Pinkerton Caldari	Posted - 2009.10.10 19:12:00 - [19] Originally by: OwlManAtt I mean, if your job is to, say, make sure the bank didn't give out a 275b loan with no collateral or any assurance that it would be repaid beyond "i swear~!"...and you don't catch that but still get your pay for that period, you miiiight not have earned it. Maybe. If your pay is waaaay lower than what you could have earned on your own (investing the same amount of time), you do not really have a motivation to do your job properly. So you cut down your effort to a minmum and try to extract as much money as possible; if this should result in you getting fired - well, the loss in income won't be that big anyway. " Credit is the economic judgement on the morality of a man. "
SentryRaven KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.10 19:24:00 - [20] Originally by: Nomenne Originally by: LaVista Vista A number of people seem to have ignored where it said that Mr. Horizontal did NOT withdraw the 90bill. Hence, the 90bill was never lost. At this point in time, those deposits accounts for just over 100bill of our deficit. Between the two directors, we have "only" lost 10bill or so. So essentially, what you're saying is that this makes the EBANK deficit 90B less than what it used to be? Actually smaller. --------
SetrakDark	Posted - 2009.10.10 19:27:00 - [21] Originally by: LaVista Vista A number of people seem to have ignored where it said that Mr. Horizontal did NOT withdraw the 90bill. Hence, the 90bill was never lost. At this point in time, those deposits accounts for just over 100bill of our deficit. Between the two directors, we have "only" lost 10bill or so. hmm...i'm a bit foggy, but I don't think you lost that 10b anyway. If he had 10b in assets and 10b in liabilities, then the net effect is actually zero. Now this doesnt account for future earning potential of the 10b as an asset, but it's still a small loss. Not that I'm excusing the action. Kudos to everyone whose effort went into this. I still think keeping the bank open is wasted effort, but at least you're going about it in the right way. I can also see why Ray seems to have a general disdain for MD, as it seems many people didn't even bother to read what he wrote, never mind think about it, before posting some asinine response.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.10.10 19:28:00 - [22] EBank is dead
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.10 19:42:00 - [23] Commendable efforts at eradicating the rotten out of the bank. Hopefully once removed that, there'll still be something left. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Krathos Morpheus Gallente Legion Infernal	Posted - 2009.10.10 19:43:00 - [24] I don't want to justify Anastasia's behaviour, specially if he voted favourably for the acount freeze, but it reminds me about cosmoray's behaviour when scamming the scammer. Please note the reminds me, it is not the same and he lose any right when voting for the freeze (was it an open vote?), but I still think you have no right to force ppl to stay if they don't want to.
Lecherito	Posted - 2009.10.10 19:55:00 - [25] I want my 90k back =( -L
abraheam Dirty Denizens	Posted - 2009.10.10 20:01:00 - [26] As someone who enjoys all aspects of this game I hope this changes the posture of this board regarding ingame banks. The facts are that noone plays forever. Instead of spending so much time discussing the reputations and credibility of the banks under the current sham of a system I hope MD comes together and presses CCP for actual mechanics that make banks possible. I have high doubts of this occuring. Mostly because the egos on this board would apparently rather trumpet their own abilities under the current broke system with which they have total control of the assets rather then attempt to build something that actually works. Eve as atrading/industrial/resoure developement/PvP/Empire building game is unsurpassed, however, there is still no game out there that captures the financial aspects of a living breathing economy quite like it should.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.10.10 20:16:00 - [27] Originally by: abraheam As someone who enjoys all aspects of this game I hope this changes the posture of this board regarding ingame banks. The facts are that noone plays forever. Instead of spending so much time discussing the reputations and credibility of the banks under the current sham of a system I hope MD comes together and presses CCP for actual mechanics that make banks possible. Why? That takes away the sandbox element of this game a little.
abraheam Dirty Denizens	Posted - 2009.10.10 20:26:00 - [28] Originally by: Brock Nelson Originally by: abraheam As someone who enjoys all aspects of this game I hope this changes the posture of this board regarding ingame banks. The facts are that noone plays forever. Instead of spending so much time discussing the reputations and credibility of the banks under the current sham of a system I hope MD comes together and presses CCP for actual mechanics that make banks possible. Why? That takes away the sandbox element of this game a little. WTF is a sand box? Seriously... Listen, if MMO's are to truly be a "sandbox" then the door swings both ways in financial transactions. Are you telling me the "definiation" of a sand box is that a customer ff a financial transaction is completely helpless in this situation? If you are saying that then you and I have a completely different definition of "sandbox".
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc	Posted - 2009.10.10 20:36:00 - [29] My understanding of what sandbox means is letting players do what they want and can within limits of the game. If you want CCP to add a bank to the game, then you're taking away the potential for players to come up with something like that on their own.
abraheam Dirty Denizens	Posted - 2009.10.10 20:39:00 - [30] Originally by: Brock Nelson My understanding of what sandbox means is letting players do what they want and can within limits of the game. If you want CCP to add a bank to the game, then you're taking away the potential for players to come up with something like that on their own. All I have really seen to date is a bunch of people come up with an admitably elaborate scam. I guess the eve financial player base isnt that original.

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