Quote:

---

Ray asked me to do the right and expedient thing and give the bank's assets in RAR back to the bank. Under the heading "Good for the goose, good for the gander", I'm also going to do the right and expedient thing and make sure I get my assets back to me. Given that I think that EBank will never be in the position to return my account balance of approximately 10.5 billion ISK back to me, I will do the expedient thing for myself (you may question that it's the right thing, given that so many people may not get their ISK back at all). So I'm taking of EBank's what belongs to me out of what is mine that actually belongs to EBank. I hope that makes sense.

---

Originally by: Solisk

---

Edited by: Solisk on 10/10/2009 18:30:34
So, two more director scandals.

The remaining directors must feel pretty betrayed.

---

Originally by: ****z

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more proof the comical folly of giving your internetz monies to a bunch of wanabee bankers.

well you have succeeded in one element of banker RP at least Ray&Co, you have mastered the art of pulling the wool over peoples eyes as you orchestrate mass theft.

epic lolz all round at how many Eve players were prepared to RP themselves into your ponzi victims!

---

Originally by: Mme Pinkerton

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EBANK employees have obviously felt the need to extract compensation surpassing their (token-) wages from a venture they invested lots of time & energy in and you react by freezing employees' wages and account balances.

Please explain - how does this work out?

---

Originally by: Ray McCormack

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It is possible the bank has been running at a deficit since its inception û we have no evidence to disprove this.

---

Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

A number of people seem to have ignored where it said that Mr. Horizontal did NOT withdraw the 90bill. Hence, the 90bill was never lost. At this point in time, those deposits accounts for just over 100bill of our deficit.

Between the two directors, we have "only" lost 10bill or so.

---

Originally by: OwlManAtt

---

I mean, if your job is to, say, make sure the bank didn't give out a 275b loan with no collateral or any assurance that it would be repaid beyond "i swear~!"...and you don't catch that but still get your pay for that period, you miiiight not have earned it. Maybe.

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Originally by: Nomenne

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

A number of people seem to have ignored where it said that Mr. Horizontal did NOT withdraw the 90bill. Hence, the 90bill was never lost. At this point in time, those deposits accounts for just over 100bill of our deficit.

Between the two directors, we have "only" lost 10bill or so.

---

So essentially, what you're saying is that this makes the EBANK deficit 90B less than what it used to be?

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

A number of people seem to have ignored where it said that Mr. Horizontal did NOT withdraw the 90bill. Hence, the 90bill was never lost. At this point in time, those deposits accounts for just over 100bill of our deficit.

Between the two directors, we have "only" lost 10bill or so.

---

Originally by: abraheam

---

As someone who enjoys all aspects of this game I hope this changes the posture of this board regarding ingame banks.

The facts are that noone plays forever. Instead of spending so much time discussing the reputations and credibility of the banks under the current sham of a system I hope MD comes together and presses CCP for actual mechanics that make banks possible.

---

Originally by: Brock Nelson

---

Originally by: abraheam

---

As someone who enjoys all aspects of this game I hope this changes the posture of this board regarding ingame banks.

The facts are that noone plays forever. Instead of spending so much time discussing the reputations and credibility of the banks under the current sham of a system I hope MD comes together and presses CCP for actual mechanics that make banks possible.

---

Why? That takes away the sandbox element of this game a little.

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Originally by: Brock Nelson

---

My understanding of what sandbox means is letting players do what they want and can within limits of the game. If you want CCP to add a bank to the game, then you're taking away the potential for players to come up with something like that on their own.

---

Originally by: DeathGrip

---

Edited by: DeathGrip on 10/10/2009 20:54:17
Comment that leads into Question -

As you know I have been on the forums saying that Ebank has lost a lot more isk than just the deficit. It has lost all profits Ebank has ever made as well.

Did Mr H have anything to do with selling off assets for liquidaiton purposes when Ebank had it's run or did he have access to those assets. I ask this because I know TXD had a lot more isk value in assets than what I see to have been accounted for, and it seems to me that they went missing, maybe some on banned ric accounts, but maybe some were liquidated just the isk not given to Ebank maybe a personal account?

Did anyone account for everything in TXD before all the assets were sold off by LOW?

Edit: Not saying LOW did this, saying maybe Mr H or somone else took some of the assets and kept them for themselfs and LOW didn't get a chance to sell them.

---

Originally by: Brock Nelson

---

My understanding of what sandbox means is letting players do what they want and can within limits of the game. If you want CCP to add a bank to the game, then you're taking away the potential for players to come up with something like that on their own.

---

Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155

---

Originally by: DeathGrip

---

Edited by: DeathGrip on 10/10/2009 20:54:17
Comment that leads into Question -

As you know I have been on the forums saying that Ebank has lost a lot more isk than just the deficit. It has lost all profits Ebank has ever made as well.

Did Mr H have anything to do with selling off assets for liquidaiton purposes when Ebank had it's run or did he have access to those assets. I ask this because I know TXD had a lot more isk value in assets than what I see to have been accounted for, and it seems to me that they went missing, maybe some on banned ric accounts, but maybe some were liquidated just the isk not given to Ebank maybe a personal account?

Did anyone account for everything in TXD before all the assets were sold off by LOW?

Edit: Not saying LOW did this, saying maybe Mr H or somone else took some of the assets and kept them for themselfs and LOW didn't get a chance to sell them.

---

I'll field this one as I have the most knowledge in regards to TXD. LoW was never in charge of liquidating TXD assets nor was LoW ever in possession of TXD assets. LoW was helping with the liquidation of Anastasia's venture.

I am in charge of the TXD liquidation and have been since the Ricdic incident. I was the director in TXD in charge of keeping an eye on the operations much like other BoD alts were in other ventures as a "just in case" option. When Ricdic pulled his runner I grabbed all the TXD assets as well as the Titan BPO's to prevent Ricdic from getting his hands on any of them. (The Titan's were locked down but he initiated a vote to unlock them and even though we all voted no they still unlocked due to a bug, which is why i grabbed them).

In regards to the TXD valuation, that process isn't complete yet due to the location of some of the assets. As you know, since we've talked about it before, a large quantity and unknown value of assets were lost due to the Ricdic banning. Hope that answers some of your questions.

---

Originally by: DeathGrip

---

So Mr H had no access to any of the TXD stuff prior to it being accounted? This is really the main question I was asking above.

---

Originally by: Ambo

---

All 10 characters either are in or have been members of a very small corporation called 'Monkeytech', Mr Horizontal was also a member in the past.. It seems pretty likely that all these chars are his alts or at least, close friends.

---

Quote:

---

Now clearly, if the deposits are real then the database entries have been doctored at some point. Why would anyone do this though? And if they did need to change something, why change all the data/times to be exactly the same? They'd also have to recalculate all the balance values after those entries to make it look like it never happened.

---

Quote:

---

In other words, these are almost certainly either fake deposits or someone framing Mr H. IMO, the whole idea of someone framing someone else like this is ridiculous. That only leaves Mr H. purposely adding bogus entries...

---

Originally by: CCP Whisper

---

So you're going to have to do some actual thinking with regards to hull components and their capabilities instead of copying some cookie-cutter setup. Cry some more.

---

Originally by: Gabriel Virtus

---

Edited by: Gabriel Virtus on 10/10/2009 23:21:07
You villify Anastasia for taking her money after you tried to steal it from her? Are you serious? She voluntarily gave back the bulk of EBANK assets that she had and subtracted the money that you were trying to steal from her and you are villifying her? How DARE she do this! What a joke.

This gets funnier and funnier as the fail cascade continues. You are throwing up smoke and mirrors to justify your theft of nearly 1.2T isk. Most players do not play as long as the time you have proposed to make up the 1.2T isk deficit that you find yourselves in through incompetence and/or theft. End this ******ed drama and give ppl their devalued assets back before your incompetence makes THEM and not YOUR money dwindles. I cannot believe any of you still have any sort of reputation after this. (Ray is probably excluded although I dont know how much longer he can keep this **** from eventually getting on his face too.)

-GV

---

Originally by: DeathGrip

---

Per the savings account deal. He also opened one for me after no more accounts were to be created, but this was pretty much done across the board for everyone that I know of.

---

Quote:

---

He(Anastasia) is just protecting his assets, can't blame him.

---

Originally by: cosmoray

---

Lucky AC grabbed the Titan prints or EBANK would most liekly failed on the spot.

It seems that most of the directors were just trying to milk the system.
With Anastasia I bet there are many people would have done the same, and taken what they think is theirs no matter what the consequences.

I am torn about Anastasia having a place on Thieves of Eve's list if the NET result is zero. EBANK owed Anastasia approximately 10B and so took equivalent assets. Not sure if this counts as a scam.
Also if Anastasia's previous crime was just "being useless", it doesn't look like he was involved in any of the previous conspiracy so probably feels along with most investors and just wants his cash back.

My position was different I took money back from Evn7289 who was in league with Xabier. Both scammed together, I lost money from Xabier but got it back from Evn7289. I am not worried about my position on the list.

---

Originally by: Athre

---

Quote:

---

He(Anastasia) is just protecting his assets, can't blame him.

---

It is in poor form to not hold ones self to the same constraints that one would hold others. I disagree with your stance on this.

---

Originally by: Brock Nelson

---

EBank is dead

---

Quote:

---

So I'm taking of EBank's what belongs to me out of what is mine that actually belongs to EBank. I hope that makes sense.

---

Originally by: Athre

---

Originally by: DeathGrip

---

Per the savings account deal. He also opened one for me after no more accounts were to be created, but this was pretty much done across the board for everyone that I know of.

---

Excuse me? I did not hear of this being given to anyone post of the cut off date. I mean I know the button was there but I never gave someone nor did I hear of anyone ask or receiving such. This is quite news to me. WTF.

---

Quote:

---

He(Anastasia) is just protecting his assets, can't blame him.

---

Originally by: Athre

---

It is in poor form to not hold ones self to the same constraints that one would hold others. I disagree with your stance on this.

---

Originally by: Yelu Olympias

---

Edited by: Yelu Olympias on 11/10/2009 08:18:35
Edited by: Yelu Olympias on 11/10/2009 08:18:05


Lol the scam that just keeps giving!

Originally by: Athre

---

Originally by: DeathGrip

---

Per the savings account deal. He also opened one for me after no more accounts were to be created, but this was pretty much done across the board for everyone that I know of.

---

Excuse me? I did not hear of this being given to anyone post of the cut off date. I mean I know the button was there but I never gave someone nor did I hear of anyone ask or receiving such. This is quite news to me. WTF.

---

Surprised no one else had jumped on this. I thought Proton was a pretty stand up guy. In my language we have a word for this kind of deal..its called 'Corruption' and was apparently so rife in EBank it was done 'across the board' for the "MD Elite" (now that's the biggest joke).

Quote:

---

He(Anastasia) is just protecting his assets, can't blame him.

---

Originally by: Athre

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It is in poor form to not hold ones self to the same constraints that one would hold others. I disagree with your stance on this.

---

Agreed, funny to see people trying to defend this action, if Anastasia had done ANYTHING to warn or help small investors or actually done the job he was PAID to do then fair enough, but as it is he is as criminally culpable as Ricdic and the growing list MD elite known scammers.

---

Originally by: EBANK SencneS

---

Mr Horizontal
05/09 - 250,000K - P+DBA
04/09 - 250,000K - P+DBA
03/09 - 250,000K - P+DBA
02/09 - 3,375,000K - P+DBA+D
01/09 - 7,750,000K - P+DBA+D
12/08 - 250,000K - P+DBA
11/08 - 400,000K - FR+P (2 months)
09/08 - 150,000K - FR
08/08 - 150,000K - FR
07/08 - 1,200,000K - FRBP
Total - 14,025,000K over 18 months (Average 780M per month)

Anastasia Heron
05/09 - 75,000K - P
04/09 - 15,000K - P
03/09 - 1,500,000K - P, {Over Paid, being corrected}
02/09 - 150,000K - P
01/09 - 150,000K - P
12/08 - 535,000K - P+PM PM- 460,000K
11/08 - 460,000K - PM {Was entered separately}
11/08 - 210,000K - FR+P (2 months)
09/08 - 150,000K - FR
08/08 - 150,000K - FR
07/08 - 1,500,000K - FRBP
Total - 3,410,000K over 20 months (Average 171M per month) {After Correction}

---

Originally by: EBANK SencneS

---

P = Participation
FR = Flat Rate (Old payroll system)
FRBP = Flat Rate Back Pay - EBANK didn't pay anyone until 10 months after it started.
D = Development work (Coding EBANK)
PM = Project/Venture Manager
DBA = Database Admin/Lead Developer

---

Originally by: Lecherito

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Ebank and staff took MD for over a trillion, and people are still entertaining their "expertise". How the bajeezus does that add up?-L

---

Originally by: Kurt Dyspare

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and refuse to return it or a part of it. They have decided they know how to use our money, better then we do.

---

Originally by: Kurt Dyspare

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you know this is the right thing to do, for both Ebank and it's customers

---

Originally by: Ray McCormack

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I don't. What I know is that this is a complex situation with a multitude of solutions. For each person asking me to liquidate, I have others saying they won't accept anything less than full recovery.

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Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155

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As if it matters at this point since most of you fail at reading but one last comment.

The issue IS NOT that a depositor found a way to get their isk back therefore we are calling them a thief, the issue is that a director who voted to freeze accounts and keep people from their isk does not feel as though they too should be included in this. He thought it was a fair move, and the only move to make at the time but did not feel like he should be included in the move. I have trouble understanding how some of you aren't getting that but then again a lot of you fail at reading so I guess it makes sense that you would miss the point.

---

Originally by: Ambo

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Ebank employees were given the chance to withdraw their isk ahead of the announcement that accounts where being frozen.

---

Originally by: Athre

---

Originally by: DeathGrip

---

Per the savings account deal. He also opened one for me after no more accounts were to be created, but this was pretty much done across the board for everyone that I know of.

---

Excuse me? I did not hear of this being given to anyone post of the cut off date. I mean I know the button was there but I never gave someone nor did I hear of anyone ask or receiving such. This is quite news to me. WTF.

Quote:

---

He(Anastasia) is just protecting his assets, can't blame him.

---

It is in poor form to not hold ones self to the same constraints that one would hold others. I disagree with your stance on this.

---

Originally by: DeathGrip

---

I agree to your second part, but it's also in poor form to hold up trillions of isk that belong to other people because you as the BOD had zero clue of what was going on with isk for over a year now.

---

Quote:

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I thought Lavista's job was to ensure that those type of frauds didn't happen

---

Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

Originally by: DeathGrip

---

I thought Lavista's job was to ensure that those type of frauds didn't happen

---

No. I only dealt with RMT "fraud".

---

Quote:

---

Nobody including myself and including you was clean in this entire dealing,

---

Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

Originally by: DeathGrip

---

I agree to your second part, but it's also in poor form to hold up trillions of isk that belong to other people because you as the BOD had zero clue of what was going on with isk for over a year now.

---

So what would you have done? Let a run on the bank take place, meaning that 50% of the customers would lose all their ISK?

Quote:

---

I thought Lavista's job was to ensure that those type of frauds didn't happen

---

No. I only dealt with RMT "fraud".

---

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

---

Quote:

---

Nobody including myself and including you was clean in this entire dealing,

---

Well, the meme was: "we are a private institution..."



About Anastasia and those defending the "theft".

When you are a broker (EBANK played many effective - yet not named - roles including this) of some sort you get to know insider information.

Those taking advantage of insider information (if catched ofc) are incriminated.
Description

Basically, you screwed up along with other people. You take it like a man and go down like them. Not flee like a scared lizard, leveraging on information and powers no outsider had.

---

Originally by: DeathGrip

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Without knowing all details; I would have came up with a way to offer customers that want out a way out, and those that want to stay in, continue to do so.

---

Originally by: Brock Nelson

---

Originally by: abraheam

---

As someone who enjoys all aspects of this game I hope this changes the posture of this board regarding ingame banks.

The facts are that noone plays forever. Instead of spending so much time discussing the reputations and credibility of the banks under the current sham of a system I hope MD comes together and presses CCP for actual mechanics that make banks possible.

---

Why? That takes away the sandbox element of this game a little.

---

Quote:

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Woot, more epic md elite failures.

---

Originally by: Lecherito

---

Originally by: MD

---

OMG QUOTES OMG QUOTES OMG QUOTES

---

The "MD-who's who" has utterly failed the community more magnificently then I ever could have imagined. Looking forward to getting some new talent in there as soon as possible. As far as I'm concerned (and this should go for just about everyone), *anyone* affiliated with Ebank now or in the past (with Selene being the only notable exception) should be treated as a YGR/Riethe/CT. AmouredC took the MD for 600 million isk and has been universally black listed by just about everyone here. Ebank and staff took MD for over a trillion, and people are still entertaining their "expertise". How the bajeezus does that add up?


-L

---

Originally by: Xetal Maelstrom

---

So it is ethical for EBank to steal a players ISK and hold it without that players input...

but it is unethical for a player to steal back their own ISK and hold it without EBanks input?

This was a hypocritical move by Anastasia Heron. You claimed it was theft. Please explain why you think that it is not theft for you to hold this individual's ISK without their consent, but that it IS theft for them to hold your ISK without your consent.

Also please explain why your reputation should not be tarnished for falsely calling someone a thief, and why someone should put any trust in you after making such a false claim.

---

Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

Originally by: DeathGrip

---

Without knowing all details; I would have came up with a way to offer customers that want out a way out, and those that want to stay in, continue to do so.

---

So you are saying that you would have rushed a buy-out offer before a full audit was done, meaning that people who wanted out right away would have lost an extra 5-10%, which has now been uncovered and accounted for?

The watching of deposits and withdrawals you refer to is the work I did to try and analyze RMT on the fly. As you would also know, I had to step down fairly shortly after, because of issues with RL.

---

Originally by: Leneerra

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

Originally by: DeathGrip

---

Without knowing all details; I would have came up with a way to offer customers that want out a way out, and those that want to stay in, continue to do so.

---

So you are saying that you would have rushed a buy-out offer before a full audit was done, meaning that people who wanted out right away would have lost an extra 5-10%, which has now been uncovered and accounted for?

The watching of deposits and withdrawals you refer to is the work I did to try and analyze RMT on the fly. As you would also know, I had to step down fairly shortly after, because of issues with RL.

---

Had you offered us that option it would have been our choice too make. You do not have to protect us from our own stupid mistakes.
Investing with ebank has approxemately cost me 50 to 60% of the isk I deposited, that has by far been my worst investment in eve.
It would have been awesome to have had the option to bug out over a month ago at a 55 to 65% loss.

PS I chose the term investing on purpose because basically that is what you turned it into.

---

Originally by: DeathGrip

---

So Ebank says it will listen to other idea's, I get into an MSN convo wiht Ray today after taling with LV for some time, we disagreed some but had a reasonable discussion. I first asked why it is taking so long and the answer i get is because it does. I then ask how I or anyone else can help, get told I am not a customer and to STFU.

Glad they are listning and open for suggestions and help.

---

Originally by: SentryRaven

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Originally by: DeathGrip

---

So Ebank says it will listen to other idea's, I get into an MSN convo wiht Ray today after taling with LV for some time, we disagreed some but had a reasonable discussion. I first asked why it is taking so long and the answer i get is because it does. I then ask how I or anyone else can help, get told I am not a customer and to STFU.

Glad they are listning and open for suggestions and help.

---

Hehehe Proton. Made me laugh quite some.

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Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

So you are saying that you would have rushed a buy-out offer before a full audit was done, meaning that people who wanted out right away would have lost an extra 5-10%, which has now been uncovered and accounted for?

---

Originally by: DeathGrip

---

Originally by: SentryRaven

---

Hehehe Proton. Made me laugh quite some.

---

I have the discussion saved if you like to see it. YOu have me on MSN just ask. At first I was attacking Ebank to LV, then LV made a good point its easy to point fingers so then I started asking why and how others could help. He said to ask Ray, I did so and well was told to STFU. So that leaves me to only pointing fingers.

---

Originally by: Skarii TuThess

---

The point that many people are trying to make is that they are not being told anything and they are not being given any choice. If people want to wothdraw early and risk losing any extra ISK found in an audit then it is there choice to do so surely?

---

Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

Originally by: Skarii TuThess

---

The point that many people are trying to make is that they are not being told anything and they are not being given any choice. If people want to wothdraw early and risk losing any extra ISK found in an audit then it is there choice to do so surely?

---

In my opinion, the success of the recovery comes down to how close to 100% we give back to the customers.

Of course, people might be able to make the ISK back faster themself. But we are cheating customers by giving them a buy-back offer that's not representative of the value of EBANK at present. And before a full overview is had over EBANK, we can't make a fair offer.

---

Originally by: Ray McCormack

---

I was watching the President's Cup today, and the commentator was critizing a player's choice of putting line. He then said something quite pertinent, he admitted he was up in the booth whilst the player was down on the green and things might be quite different for him.

So it may be easy to shout your opinion from the sideline, crying out about the idiots in charge, but realise things are quite different when you're in the position that requires the decisions to be made.

You could always man up and make the differences you're so vehemently crying for, we're recruiting.

---

Originally by: Ray McCormack

---

I was watching the President's Cup today, and the commentator was critizing a player's choice of putting line. He then said something quite pertinent, he admitted he was up in the booth whilst the player was down on the green and things might be quite different for him.

---

Originally by: Cick Lunt

---

nice salary on the screenshot,.... 418 + 15 BILLION isk... now i see why there is a shortage of 1.5 trillion isk...

---

Originally by: Dzil

---

Originally by: Lecherito

---

Originally by: MD

---

OMG QUOTES OMG QUOTES OMG QUOTES

---

The "MD-who's who" has utterly failed the community more magnificently then I ever could have imagined. Looking forward to getting some new talent in there as soon as possible. As far as I'm concerned (and this should go for just about everyone), *anyone* affiliated with Ebank now or in the past (with Selene being the only notable exception) should be treated as a YGR/Riethe/CT. AmouredC took the MD for 600 million isk and has been universally black listed by just about everyone here. Ebank and staff took MD for over a trillion, and people are still entertaining their "expertise". How the bajeezus does that add up?


-L

---

Clearly no depositors feel completely confident that ebank has scammed for the full amount of isk. If this were the case, would these people not put their money where their mouths are when opportunities arose to sell off those accounts?

---

Originally by: Lecherito

---

Ray specifically stated that anyone caught "selling off" their account risked having their assets wiped.

---

Originally by: Ray McCormack

---

Originally by: Lecherito

---

Ray specifically stated that anyone caught "selling off" their account risked having their assets wiped.

---

I never said that.

---

Originally by: Breaker77

---

I do remember that right after the announcement of account freezes someone made a post offering to buy EBank accounts and you did state along the lines of anyone doing that would have their account closed.

I've been digging through eve search for a while, but I will eventually find that post.

---

Originally by: Ray McCormack

---

Originally by: Lecherito

---

Ray specifically stated that anyone caught "selling off" their account risked having their assets wiped.

---

I never said that.

---

Originally by: Ray McCormack

---

Originally by: leona starfire

---

For people who still have loans outstanding with e-bank I am willing with my main Nightjester to transfer up to 10B isk to your account once i have received 80% of the value of your loan in assets. You can then repay e-bank get back your assets from e-bank and instantly save yourself 20%. I will then allow you to pay back your loan with no interest over the following 12 months.

---

Originally by: Leneerra

---

Are there people out there that have a loan with ebank that they wish to refinance or repay? I have up to 4.4Bil Ebank isk availeble for any such transaction.

---

Anyone caught doing this will have their loan defaulted, and all accounts belonging to the parties involved will be zeroed.

---

Originally by: TraderAlt 4153172618

---

Quote:

---

Originally by: Leneerra

---

Are there people out there that have a loan with ebank that they wish to refinance or repay? I have up to 4.4Bil Ebank isk availeble for any such transaction.

---

Anyone caught doing this will have their loan defaulted, and all accounts belonging to the parties involved will be zeroed.

---

http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1161131/page/all#741

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Originally by: Breaker77

---

Ahhh I see, so in otherwords you couldn't use EBank ISK to pay off an EBank loan. Must mean that EBank knows the ISK is worthless and will never be made back.

---

Originally by: Ray McCormack

---

No, it's just worth less than it's face value at the moment, which you would get if you used it to pay off someone else's loan. Why is this so hard to understand?

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Originally by: Tesal

---

Someone please explain to me Gnarrkilly. Who actually owns him now, is it Mr Horizontal?

---

Originally by: Ray McCormack

---

Originally by: Lecherito

---

Ray specifically stated that anyone caught "selling off" their account risked having their assets wiped.

---

I never said that.

---

Originally by: Ray McCormack

---

Originally by: Lecherito

---

Ray specifically stated that anyone caught "selling off" their account risked having their assets wiped.

---

I never said that.

---

Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

Originally by: Skarii TuThess

---

The point that many people are trying to make is that they are not being told anything and they are not being given any choice. If people want to wothdraw early and risk losing any extra ISK found in an audit then it is there choice to do so surely?

---

In my opinion, the success of the recovery comes down to how close to 100% we give back to the customers.

Of course, people might be able to make the ISK back faster themself. But we are cheating customers by giving them a buy-back offer that's not representative of the value of EBANK at present. And before a full overview is had over EBANK, we can't make a fair offer.

---

Originally by: Leneerra

---

Lecherito,
To my knowledge Ray has only forbidden selling of ebank isk to repay outstanding loans.
They specifically allow speculation on ebank isk in accounts hoping to use that to liquidate those people's accounts that wish their isk returned as far as possible.

They are accepting suggestions/modifications on idears on using the isk locked in ebank commercially.

I am still impressed with the willingness of these people to dig trough the stuff we trow in their general direction as well as the dedication they show in trying to solve most of it.

Dear ebank,
What you seem to fail to accept is that you will never be able to return me all the isk you owe me. You have repeatedly stated that returning the open account balances fully will be considered full repayment.
Please understand that even if you manage to repay me that so called full balance in 10 months you would still have scammed me for the interest I should have gotten under your own terms of service. Besides that, you offer no further compensation for removing my opton to withdraw my isk. you basically turned my deposit into an x month 0% bond with a one-sided fixed term.

Accep that you cannot ever repay me fully untill you ask me what I would find accepteble as compensation for your tos change.
Arguing about what you think is full recovery serves no purpose untill you give us accountholders a say in what full recovery is.

I know you cannot repay me my full account balance now, but you will not be able to pay me what I see as my full account balance in a year anyway. I take a loss either way. why cant I choose what loss to accept and when to accept it.
Even if you can only offer me 20 cents to each isk just give us the option to choose what we want to do with our own isk.

PS Ray,
I am very happy you have ceased your sarcastic jokes.
While I understand you got hot dropped into a ****hole. Your remarks damaged ebank, your collegues and yourself much more than any of those deserved.

---

Originally by: Motivated Prophet

---

Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

Originally by: Skarii TuThess

---

The point that many people are trying to make is that they are not being told anything and they are not being given any choice. If people want to wothdraw early and risk losing any extra ISK found in an audit then it is there choice to do so surely?

---

In my opinion, the success of the recovery comes down to how close to 100% we give back to the customers.

Of course, people might be able to make the ISK back faster themself. But we are cheating customers by giving them a buy-back offer that's not representative of the value of EBANK at present. And before a full overview is had over EBANK, we can't make a fair offer.

---

Pricing that sort of uncertainty is one thing at which the crowd (or "free market", if you prefer) is especially talented.

This may already be your plan, and if so, congratulations, but what about an exchange? Buyers step up by submitting a full API key to you. They then place bids--1 million EBank ISK for X real ISK, up to a maximum of Y real ISK. Sellers select from the bids (keeping in mind they may not choose the highest for various reasons), and choose "sell". For the next 24 hours, the API feed of the buyer is pulled; if they transfer the correct amount of ISK to the correct person, their EBank account gets appropriately credited. If not, the outstanding transaction is canceled; no harm, no foul. The buyer gets a red tick on his record (nothing too terrible; he might have simply been out riding bikes that day), and the seller is welcome to try again with another buyer.

I'd certainly inject a few billion into such a system, assuming I were getting the right price, of course.

Here, I'll even start it off: for all of those saying "X proves that EBank thinks EBank ISK is worthless", I'll buy your EBank ISK (EBI) for 50 million EBI per 1 billion ISK, minimum quantity 1B EBI. Just send me an EVEMail*. If you don't take me up on it, that proves that you don't think EBI is worthless.

MP

---

Originally by: Hexxx

---

Originally by: Leneerra

---

Lecherito,
To my knowledge Ray has only forbidden selling of ebank isk to repay outstanding loans.
They specifically allow speculation on ebank isk in accounts hoping to use that to liquidate those people's accounts that wish their isk returned as far as possible.

They are accepting suggestions/modifications on idears on using the isk locked in ebank commercially.

I am still impressed with the willingness of these people to dig trough the stuff we trow in their general direction as well as the dedication they show in trying to solve most of it.

Dear ebank,
What you seem to fail to accept is that you will never be able to return me all the isk you owe me. You have repeatedly stated that returning the open account balances fully will be considered full repayment.
Please understand that even if you manage to repay me that so called full balance in 10 months you would still have scammed me for the interest I should have gotten under your own terms of service. Besides that, you offer no further compensation for removing my opton to withdraw my isk. you basically turned my deposit into an x month 0% bond with a one-sided fixed term.

Accep that you cannot ever repay me fully untill you ask me what I would find accepteble as compensation for your tos change.
Arguing about what you think is full recovery serves no purpose untill you give us accountholders a say in what full recovery is.

I know you cannot repay me my full account balance now, but you will not be able to pay me what I see as my full account balance in a year anyway. I take a loss either way. why cant I choose what loss to accept and when to accept it.
Even if you can only offer me 20 cents to each isk just give us the option to choose what we want to do with our own isk.

PS Ray,
I am very happy you have ceased your sarcastic jokes.
While I understand you got hot dropped into a ****hole. Your remarks damaged ebank, your collegues and yourself much more than any of those deserved.

---

You can always sell your account balance to a speculator. The only downside is that you'd have less to write about in your future posts.

Kidding aside, there is no code of conduct for how people conduct business and handle business losses. The rule of thumb is that they should be honest and transparent about what they are doing. Now, I would love to see some mercantile law crafted and agreed to - that would go a long way towards helping to resolve disputes such as these.

However - the undeniable fact is that none of you (or even me for that matter) have ownership in EBANK. We have zero equity. Zip. What we do have (not me, I had my balance wiped out) is money owed - the public are creditors. Debt does not constitute ownership however, just because I own a US Treasury Bond does not mean I own part of the US Treasury.

This is what you and many others fail to accept...the difference between debt and equity. Owner versus creditor.

The good side? Creditors (you) are owed money before owners (EBANK Board). Anastasia violated this tacit rule by "withdrawing" ISK by virtue of not returning EBANK owned assets and cash. This is in fact, theft. Going forward I would expect creditors paid first (customers) and owners paid last (EBANK Board).

Also, you can belittle what I'm saying and try to change the subject but it doesn't change the fact that everything I just wrote is absolute true.

---

Originally by: "Lecherito"

---

Except Ebank is no longer an independent enterprise. It is a defaulted business. Through their extreme incompetency, they have managed to lose over a trillion in funds. Public funds. I'm sure you're well aware, but the rules governing an independent, ethical, and profitable enterprise are vastly different from those governing bankruptcy. Anyone still on the "it's not a public company" bandwagon needs to seriously check themselves. You are frighteningly wrong.

-L

---

Originally by: Hexxx

---

Me: Debt as an argument for ownership?!? This is madness!!!
Public: Madness...? THIS! IS! MD!!!
*punt*

---

Originally by: Lecherito

---

Originally by: Ray McCormack

---

Originally by: Lecherito

---

Ray specifically stated that anyone caught "selling off" their account risked having their assets wiped.

---

I never said that.

---

And yes, you specifically prohibited people from selling their EVE isk to speculators, starting when that crazy Asian guy first showed up and got the ball rolling. You *also* stated that in the coming financial report, liquidation would "NOT" be an option, yet now it is? Yah mate, the fall from glory is a harsh one.

-L

---

Originally by: Ray McCormack

---

Originally by: Breaker77

---

Ahhh I see, so in otherwords you couldn't use EBank ISK to pay off an EBank loan. Must mean that EBank knows the ISK is worthless and will never be made back.

---

No, it's just worth less than it's face value at the moment, which you would get if you used it to pay off someone else's loan. Why is this so hard to understand?

---

Originally by: Dzil

---

Further misrepresentations of the facts by you on this matter can only be explained by an intention to propagate lies.

---

Originally by: Trixie Rose

---

Edited by: Trixie Rose on 12/10/2009 07:34:02
I don't understand what you're all whining about. Section 3. - v. clearly covers all this and they did inform everyone of the changes.

Ray you're doing a fantastic job, I can only imagine the insane amounts of work and spreadsheets you're getting pummeled with during your free time...

Edit: You did read the terms and conditions before you signed up for an account, right?

---

Originally by: cosmoray

---

Originally by: Motivated Prophet

---

Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

Originally by: Skarii TuThess

---

The point that many people are trying to make is that they are not being told anything and they are not being given any choice. If people want to wothdraw early and risk losing any extra ISK found in an audit then it is there choice to do so surely?

---

In my opinion, the success of the recovery comes down to how close to 100% we give back to the customers.

Of course, people might be able to make the ISK back faster themself. But we are cheating customers by giving them a buy-back offer that's not representative of the value of EBANK at present. And before a full overview is had over EBANK, we can't make a fair offer.

---

Pricing that sort of uncertainty is one thing at which the crowd (or "free market", if you prefer) is especially talented.

This may already be your plan, and if so, congratulations, but what about an exchange? Buyers step up by submitting a full API key to you. They then place bids--1 million EBank ISK for X real ISK, up to a maximum of Y real ISK. Sellers select from the bids (keeping in mind they may not choose the highest for various reasons), and choose "sell". For the next 24 hours, the API feed of the buyer is pulled; if they transfer the correct amount of ISK to the correct person, their EBank account gets appropriately credited. If not, the outstanding transaction is canceled; no harm, no foul. The buyer gets a red tick on his record (nothing too terrible; he might have simply been out riding bikes that day), and the seller is welcome to try again with another buyer.

I'd certainly inject a few billion into such a system, assuming I were getting the right price, of course.

Here, I'll even start it off: for all of those saying "X proves that EBank thinks EBank ISK is worthless", I'll buy your EBank ISK (EBI) for 50 million EBI per 1 billion ISK, minimum quantity 1B EBI. Just send me an EVEMail*. If you don't take me up on it, that proves that you don't think EBI is worthless.

MP

---

I had already offered 20% on account balance. There were similar offers also in the high teens, low twenties.
I also had investors with up to 200B available so in theory we could have bought 1T in account balances.

Not one person took us up on this offer. At that time there was a clear difference in what the market priced the risk at, and what the customers wanted.

After the next EBANK report comes out, we shall see what the market prices the risk at.

---

Originally by: Brock Nelson

---

EBank is dead

---

Originally by: Reilly Duvolle

---

LMAO. Do you really think your former customers belive this s**t? Why dont tell the truth Ray, that this is a giant scamming operation, designed to rob your former customers for every single isk they deposted while attemting to appear "legit"? Btw, which director or member of the board is going to be "discovered" in misconduct next?

---

Originally by: Bruno George

---

Ray, la Vista and the rest of the E Bank Board need a good butt kickin (ingame)

---

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

---

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 12/10/2009 13:47:49

Originally by: Bruno George

---

Ray, la Vista and the rest of the E Bank Board need a good butt kickin (ingame)

---

Ray? He's the guy digging in the dung to find out if there's something not rotten left to salvage. Not the one who pooped it.

---

Originally by: Hexxx

---

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

---

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 12/10/2009 13:47:49

Originally by: Bruno George

---

Ray, la Vista and the rest of the E Bank Board need a good butt kickin (ingame)

---

Ray? He's the guy digging in the dung to find out if there's something not rotten left to salvage. Not the one who pooped it.

---

I don't think that's going to dim the noise of the mob...

If anyone can fix EBANK, it's Ray. He's done a ton of work and his focus is incredible. He doesn't pull his punches either...I speak from experience and a sore jaw.

---

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

---

Originally by: Hexxx

---

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

---

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 12/10/2009 13:47:49

Originally by: Bruno George

---

Ray, la Vista and the rest of the E Bank Board need a good butt kickin (ingame)

---

Ray? He's the guy digging in the dung to find out if there's something not rotten left to salvage. Not the one who pooped it.

---

I don't think that's going to dim the noise of the mob...

If anyone can fix EBANK, it's Ray. He's done a ton of work and his focus is incredible. He doesn't pull his punches either...I speak from experience and a sore jaw.

---

Imho it's intellectual honesty to be able and discern who did what, and who did not do what.

Putting all together and burn'em all on a pire is a typical mediocre idiot mob mentality. Those - you know - only able to laugh and deride, but never to do anything constructive or tangible or even relevant in their useless life.

---

Originally by: Ray McCormack

---

Originally by: Reilly Duvolle

---

LMAO. Do you really think your former customers belive this s**t? Why dont tell the truth Ray, that this is a giant scamming operation, designed to rob your former customers for every single isk they deposted while attemting to appear "legit"? Btw, which director or member of the board is going to be "discovered" in misconduct next?

---

Your argument is logical and well thought out, without flaw. You win internet forums for today.

My money is on Omber Zombie in the kitchen with a spatula.

---

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

---

Originally by: Hexxx

---

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

---

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 12/10/2009 13:47:49

Originally by: Bruno George

---

Ray, la Vista and the rest of the E Bank Board need a good butt kickin (ingame)

---

Ray? He's the guy digging in the dung to find out if there's something not rotten left to salvage. Not the one who pooped it.

---

I don't think that's going to dim the noise of the mob...

If anyone can fix EBANK, it's Ray. He's done a ton of work and his focus is incredible. He doesn't pull his punches either...I speak from experience and a sore jaw.

---

Imho it's intellectual honesty to be able and discern who did what, and who did not do what.

Putting all together and burn'em all on a pire is a typical mediocre idiot mob mentality. Those - you know - only able to laugh and deride, but never to do anything constructive or tangible or even relevant in their useless life.

---

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

---

Originally by: Hexxx

---

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

---

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 12/10/2009 13:47:49

Originally by: Bruno George

---

Ray, la Vista and the rest of the E Bank Board need a good butt kickin (ingame)

---

Ray? He's the guy digging in the dung to find out if there's something not rotten left to salvage. Not the one who pooped it.

---

I don't think that's going to dim the noise of the mob...

If anyone can fix EBANK, it's Ray. He's done a ton of work and his focus is incredible. He doesn't pull his punches either...I speak from experience and a sore jaw.

---

Imho it's intellectual honesty to be able and discern who did what, and who did not do what.

Putting all together and burn'em all on a pire is a typical mediocre idiot mob mentality. Those - you know - only able to laugh and deride, but never to do anything constructive or tangible or even relevant in their useless life.

---

Originally by: Laruant Wiggins

---

This scam is still running?

Is there a single list of current and former directors and employees?(alts too)
Don't want to do business with any of them.

---

Originally by: Ray McCormack

---

My money is on Omber Zombie in the kitchen with a spatula.

---

Originally by: HawkBlade

---

Originally by: Dzil

---

Further misrepresentations of the facts by you on this matter can only be explained by an intention to propagate lies.

---

Originally by: Signore Kaeota

---

Actually he's just an idiot who thinks everyone should listen to him.

---

More on target, he's a CCP employee or he's blowing a dev nightly. No matter how many times you report trollings, flames, or the /signeds|/agrees posts... moderators absolutely refuse to do a thing about him. They know who butters their bread and it ain't us.

Don't worry though, you'll have to use Eve search to see this post. I'll link it after my ban is over for saying this.

PS: Interesting to note that he's ready to paint even innocent people who left eBank long ago as criminal but is playing apologist for Selene. Guess he's on the board of the new bank as well as being a CCP employee.

---

Quote:

---

On the other hand, there are many intelligent people who agree with the mob

---

Quote:

---

Oh come on. And you think it would be much more intelligent for the "idiot mob" to take at face value all posts and threads on these forums in defence of the integrity of EBank, in light of events over the last few months. Get real.

All doubt, cynicicm, criticism and skepticism expressed on these forums is entirely justified in light of the circumstances.

---

Originally by: Johnny ReeRee

---

tl;dr: Ray's wrong but he's probably not dishonest...

---

Originally by: Kurt Dyspare

---

Ray, you've been handed a **** sandwich, and told to make it appealing to your customers. You cannot.

---

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

---

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 12/10/2009 16:24:33
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 12/10/2009 16:23:48

Quote:

---

On the other hand, there are many intelligent people who agree with the mob

---

Don't think so.

Intelligent people are by definition intelligent enough to evaluate the situations in a less "I want blood" and more analythical way.

The results of the analysis could be as harsh as those "by skin" but they'd come after actually examining the facts, not jumping in a fray because every other lemming does.

---

Originally by: Skarii TuThess

---

Originally by: Tesal

---

Someone please explain to me Gnarrkilly. Who actually owns him now, is it Mr Horizontal?

---

I don't know who owns him now, but it is not the same guy who made him and was in DFC and Damned Legion, as he sold it in Feb 2008. After that I don't know who the owner was. Not much help sorry, but it might fill in part of the story for someone.

---

Originally by: Tesal

---

Lots of interesting information

---

Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

Edited by: LaVista Vista on 12/10/2009 17:22:20

Originally by: Tesal

---

Lots of interesting information

---

If it is NOT Mr. Horizontal, it would have to be a person who Mr. H knows very well, shares IP with and would want to give ISK to.

EDIT: Just to clarify, as mentioned earlier:
We have tracked all those characters to two common IPs and a third one that's closely connected as well.

---

Originally by: Tesal

---

Does General Exception also share an IP? If so, I think you can safely say it was a fake transfer.

---

Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

Originally by: Tesal

---

Does General Exception also share an IP? If so, I think you can safely say it was a fake transfer.

---

Yes.

---

Originally by: Tesal

---

If no else one knows, I assume KIA leadership does because they would need to know that before they let them in the alliance.

---

Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel

---

Are you allowed to discuss this information on the public forum? Seems like rather sensitive information that should not be referred to at all, although I may be incorrect.

---

Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

Originally by: Tesal

---

Does General Exception also share an IP? If so, I think you can safely say it was a fake transfer.

---

Yes.

---

Originally by: Tesal

---

Edited by: Tesal on 12/10/2009 18:52:59
Edited by: Tesal on 12/10/2009 18:32:58

Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

Originally by: Tesal

---

Does General Exception also share an IP? If so, I think you can safely say it was a fake transfer.

---

Yes.

---

Who brought *Mr Horizontal* into EBank?

*Edit
**crickets chirping sound**

---

Originally by: SetrakDark

---

I'd like to know what people think Ray's nefarious end-game is. EBank already has everyone's money, why maintain the charade of decency? If the goal is to run another bank scam, why spend 1-2 years rebuilding a broken one?

I'm honestly curious.

---

Originally by: DJ Geist

---

1) To appear the hero in having dealt with the aftermath of EBANK in the best possible way, for the sake of long term credibility in future scams.

---

Originally by: DJ Geist

---

2) To entice a new breed of sheep to contribute to EBANK's funds by buying up the accounts of those who do not have confidence in EBANK, and then staying with EBANK (and perhaps even adding deposits as reports get more rosy) during the rebuilding

---

Originally by: DJ Geist

---

3) To dissolve attention from the various participants in the scam, combined with an actual or chose scapegoat or two. Ambiguous "I don't know if he was behind or not" credibility is better than bad credibility, and could be the shaky basis to initiate new and future scams.

---

Originally by: cosmoray

---

Originally by: Tesal

---

Edited by: Tesal on 12/10/2009 18:52:59
Edited by: Tesal on 12/10/2009 18:32:58

Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

Originally by: Tesal

---

Does General Exception also share an IP? If so, I think you can safely say it was a fake transfer.

---

Yes.

---

Who brought *Mr Horizontal* into EBank?

*Edit
**crickets chirping sound**

---

Mr H was on the original BOD.
I think the idea for EBANK started floating around in 2007, at which point Furybank was still running but the concern was with a one man operation.

At that time Ricdic did have a 'good' MD reputation and tried to gather a group of players with similar high MD reps or who had required skills to run a bank (including website, database design etc.).

---

Quote:

---

And by the way your use of "intelligent" here is some degree of strongarming. The "intelligent/lemming" contrast is not a real distinction in your characterization, but just rhetoric that tries to nudge people into trusting ray/anyone in ebank.

---

Originally by: Stella's Rage

---

I bet Ray does a bunk with the lot.

he is SUSPECT.

---

Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel

---

Are you allowed to discuss this information on the public forum? Seems like rather sensitive information that should not be referred to at all, although I may be incorrect.

---

How is it sensitive information?

Here's a hint: Your computer broadcasts an IP every time you press a button on the internet.

I'm not posting private information. I'm not posting anything that can be used to identify anybody. I'm not posting anything that couldn't be figured out from in-game information, as proved just a few posts ago.

---

Originally by: SetrakDark

---

Originally by: Stella's Rage

---

I bet Ray does a bunk with the lot.

he is SUSPECT.

---

I'll take that bet. What's the time frame? Man up, post on your main, and we can arrange for a 3rd party holder and terms.

---

Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel

---

Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel

---

Are you allowed to discuss this information on the public forum? Seems like rather sensitive information that should not be referred to at all, although I may be incorrect.

---

How is it sensitive information?

Here's a hint: Your computer broadcasts an IP every time you press a button on the internet.

I'm not posting private information. I'm not posting anything that can be used to identify anybody. I'm not posting anything that couldn't be figured out from in-game information, as proved just a few posts ago.

---

My point is that if you are harvesing and storing IP addresses you have an ethical responsibility not to discuss that information in any way on the eve online forum. The fact that you only confirmed that one ingame character was linked to another character is moot, because you referenced confidential information which should not be documented on a public forum. You have access to sensitive information which you not only harvest, but apparently store, and there are valid ethical concerns about how you use that information which you should consider before rushing to the forums to prove a point.

---

Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel

---

My point is that if you are harvesing and storing IP addresses you have an ethical responsibility not to discuss that information in any way on the eve online forum. The fact that you only confirmed that one ingame character was linked to another character is moot, because you referenced confidential information which should not be documented on a public forum. You have access to sensitive information which you not only harvest, but apparently store, and there are valid ethical concerns about how you use that information which you should consider before rushing to the forums to prove a point.

---

Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel

---

My point is that if you are harvesing and storing IP addresses you have an ethical responsibility not to discuss that information in any way on the eve online forum. The fact that you only confirmed that one ingame character was linked to another character is moot, because you referenced confidential information which should not be documented on a public forum. You have access to sensitive information which you not only harvest, but apparently store, and there are valid ethical concerns about how you use that information which you should consider before rushing to the forums to prove a point.

---

Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

There's numerous court cases that has establish that IP addresses are not protected by privacy laws in most cases. The fact that I have yet to post the IP addresses

---

Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel

---

Originally by: LaVista Vista

---

There's numerous court cases that has establish that IP addresses are not protected by privacy laws in most cases. The fact that I have yet to post the IP addresses

---

Post them then, and await the response. Do you really think it will be permitted? Don't forget, you are posting on the CCP forum and are subject the their rules.

Don't forget to include Ricdic, and all your bad loan IPs, in addition to your tarnished directors. Or is this just a witch hunt against these two individuals because it suits Ebank's strategy right now?

Just a quick reminder, here is your TOS https://www.eve-bank.net/About/Static.aspx?key=TermsAndConditions. Direct me to the point where you state that you will publically link alts, or IPs that are found to scam or default. I assume even your BoD Ebank accounts are given these same terms and conditions? Or are you just making the rules up as you go along?

Exercise some judgement and restraint when you post on the forums. The fact that you are privy to information (which some people consider sensitive) does not mean you need to rush to the forums to post to confirm rumours and allegations using that information, which as you stated, could have been confirmed without. An IP address is not the only thing Ebank harvests, as I recall you also extract personal email addresses from your account holders. Will you be publishing these on the eve-o forums next? Where do you draw the line?

This wishy-washy "I didn't explicitly state the information" reminds me of when Shar/Hawkblade threatened to tell a complaining DBank investor's colleagues who their in-game character was. It didn't happen but there was moderate criticism; the fact that he rushed to the forums to threaten an investor by releasing RL information goes against the spirit of the game, and is unethical.

On another point, how secure is your database, and how much information was Mr H actually privy to? If it was the whole database, does this mean that all your account holders email addresses and IPs have been available to someone who is now a confirmed scammer?

If you're not aware of the debate about IP address publishing in relation to eve online (which I doubt), eve search IP harvesting.

---

Originally by: SentryRaven

---

Originally by: Tesal

---

If no else one knows, I assume KIA leadership does because they would need to know that before they let them in the alliance.

---

Yup. :)

---

Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel

---

rotten garbage

---

Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel

---

My point is that if you are harvesing and storing IP addresses you have an ethical responsibility not to discuss that information in any way on the eve online forum. The fact that you only confirmed that one ingame character was linked to another character is moot, because you referenced confidential information which should not be documented on a public forum. You have access to sensitive information which you not only harvest, but apparently store, and there are valid ethical concerns about how you use that information which you should consider before rushing to the forums to prove a point.

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Originally by: Breaker77

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That alone makes proving what characters are alts almost impossible since many people can share the same IP address.

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

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Anastasia Heron ... posted that she would be returning the remaining assets from her venture (that hasn't paid any interest in at least six months).

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Originally by: DeathGrip

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Originally by: SentryRaven

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Originally by: Tesal

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If no else one knows, I assume KIA leadership does because they would need to know that before they let them in the alliance.

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Yup. :)

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Why would Kia leadership care, they stole 250bil isk from Ebank as well, or did you all forget that part?

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Originally by: Maestro Del'Tirith

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Has the new board considered putting up an announcement asking people to 'claim their isk' - perhaps via inputting a withdrawal for it or similar measures?

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Originally by: Maestro Del'Tirith

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Separate from this, have their been considerations for removing interest and counting balance as only principle (a la FDIC insurance), to see what sort of picture that paints?

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

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We're also contemplating requiring people to provide their limited API key in order to transfer the ISK out of the suspense account. There are arguments for and against this approach I'm sure, feel free to voice yours.

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Originally by: Brock Nelson

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What differences does the API key make?

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Originally by: DeathGrip

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Originally by: SentryRaven

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Originally by: Tesal

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If no else one knows, I assume KIA leadership does because they would need to know that before they let them in the alliance.

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Yup. :)

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Why would Kia leadership care, they stole 250bil isk from Ebank as well, or did you all forget that part?

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Originally by: Solisk

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Is it possible that Mr. H made more fraudulent deposits in the past to other alt accounts?

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Originally by: Solisk

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Originally by: Solisk

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Is it possible that Mr. H made more fraudulent deposits in the past to other alt accounts?

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I thought this was a fair question, didn't see it answered though.

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Originally by: Ray McCormack

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Originally by: Solisk

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Originally by: Solisk

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Is it possible that Mr. H made more fraudulent deposits in the past to other alt accounts?

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I thought this was a fair question, didn't see it answered though.

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Sure it's possible.

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Originally by: Gabriel Rosencrantz

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Is anybody even the least bit surprised? If they're still stealing, even after everything has been "locked down," it's obvious this thing is on it's last legs. Please continue to give us the play-by-play of the slow motion disaster that is EBank.

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