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any mission runners actually enjoy lowsec missions?

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Tirrus Rex Minmatar American Gods Sanctimony of Bellum	Posted - 2009.10.16 17:02:00 - [1] Ok- I just want to hear from mission runners. How many of you actually like taking missions in lowsec (either because the agent is there or because the mission location is there)? I am guessing it is not that many. If you want to PVP, you pvp. If you want to run missions, you run missions. If you are running missions, you aren't in a PVP spec'd ship and you aren't making more money/LP than you would be if you were working for an identically qualified agent in high sec. So why do missions in low sec space? Dave
Neckbeard Griefmonger	Posted - 2009.10.16 17:38:00 - [2] I used to mission in low sec. I would use the directional scanner frequently and as much as possible. I escaped many people jumping in on me, but I still lost enough ships to negate any extra profit I'd make from the extra LP.
ropnes	Posted - 2009.10.16 17:56:00 - [3] It's better to do missions for lowsec agents if you're going to do missions in lowsec The entry systems are the ones that are most commonly camped
Tirrus Rex Minmatar American Gods Sanctimony of Bellum	Posted - 2009.10.16 18:22:00 - [4] Neck and R- Yeah, I think its nuts. I suspect very, very few mission runners do missions in lowsec for more than a few missions. There is no incentive to when there are identical agents in high sec regions. I suspect most mission runners don't want to pvp while they are running missions. That's why they are running missions! There was a comment in one of the EVE FanFest round table discussions about making all level 4 missions low sec. I think this is a horrible idea. When I am mission running, I just want to run missions- not worry about some ganker running in and killing me. And I think a lot of other mission runners feel the same way. Thats why I opened up this thread- I wanted to see if there were mission runners who do like having missions that take place in low sec. And if so, why do they like it? What is the benefit? Are there any out there? Dave
Traska Gannel	Posted - 2009.10.16 18:31:00 - [5] Edited by: Traska Gannel on 16/10/2009 18:36:12 First, mission rewards - payout and LP - are higher the lower security the system. A good L4 mission can go as high as about 15k or so LP as far as I know. On the other hand, the best high sec LP is about 8639 LP/mission - with appropriate skills, a high quality agent and as low a true security as possible and still be high sec. That said, unless you have fun keeping an eye on the scanner and warping to a safe spot (and cloaking) or docking when someone starts hunting you ... it probably isn't worth the extra time and possible expenses if you get caught. The best way to make low sec missions more attractive would be to increase the rewards in proportion to the increased risk. Maybe an additional 25 million ISK / L4 mission so that every 4 missions would cover the cost of a lost ship and lost time.
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2009.10.16 18:53:00 - [6] Edited by: XXSketchxx on 16/10/2009 18:53:46 I've always said moving ALL level 4 agents to low sec is a horrible idea. But I think it wouldn't hurt to move all level 4 agents with a quality >0 to low sec. I don't know how many (if any) carebears would move to low sec for the better agents, but at the very least there would be a little bit more balance. As it stands, as others have said, low sec rewards are definitely greater than high sec. In fact, you'll find that lots of "pirates" do missions in their "home" systems. You see this in NPC null sec as well. If you are willing to do a bit of work, pay attention to the game, be careful, and use the game mechanics that are laid down for you, you can easily do missions in low sec and make a nice stack of isk and LP. The problem with most carebears is they see low sec as an "I'm going to get killed instantly" zone. Most cannot be persuaded away from this mentality. There are a few though that are curious about greater rewards, and these are the ones that will eventually move out of high sec in seek of greater fortune. _____________________________________________ -Sketch, Certified Pharmacist Need a Boost?
Zartanic Red Federation	Posted - 2009.10.16 19:04:00 - [7] There is only one thing stopping me from doing low sec missions and that is having to spam the scan button. As well as being stupid and totally unrealistic I really have better things to do than wear my fingers out. If there was an alarm mod or way of auto scanning it would be fine. I don't want the chances of being caught lowered, just the mechanics to check the grid improved. Really a lot of this game is down to simple things like that which seems designed to put players off.
Bellac	Posted - 2009.10.16 19:15:00 - [8] The OP covered it nicely. If you are running missions your ship is set up for PvE and as such any PvP engagement is stacked greatly in favour of the attacker who will be prepared for the PvP engament. If there was little difference between fits in PvP and PvE then I guess you would get alot more mission runners dipping their toes in the combat arena. Until that day the two types of combat are best left well apart.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.10.16 19:16:00 - [9] Originally by: XXSketchxx The problem with most carebears is they see low sec as an "I'm going to get killed instantly" zone. Most cannot be persuaded away from this mentality. It only takes getting killed once every few dozen missions to make it not worth the effort. [Aussie players: join channel ANZAC]
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.10.16 19:20:00 - [10] No one enjoys losing money. So except for the few rare cases of an alliance protecting its mission runners in low sec or the rare empty mission system - no one likes it. Wherever you went - Here you are.

XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2009.10.16 19:28:00 - [11] Originally by: Mara Rinn Originally by: XXSketchxx The problem with most carebears is they see low sec as an "I'm going to get killed instantly" zone. Most cannot be persuaded away from this mentality. It only takes getting killed once every few dozen missions to make it not worth the effort. Then don't get killed. Its really not that hard. _____________________________________________ -Sketch, Certified Pharmacist Need a Boost?
Reachok Amarr Tres Hombres Uno Chica Loco	Posted - 2009.10.16 19:47:00 - [12] Originally by: XXSketchxx Originally by: Mara Rinn Originally by: XXSketchxx The problem with most carebears is they see low sec as an "I'm going to get killed instantly" zone. Most cannot be persuaded away from this mentality. It only takes getting killed once every few dozen missions to make it not worth the effort. Then don't get killed. Its really not that hard. Dur hur!! That's like saying, "Don't be scared of death, just don't die!!" Low sec needs a rethink. In null sec, if I am doing a plex that I've scanned down and you fly into it, I can shoot you right away. In low sec, if I don't want to lose sec status I have to wait for YOU to shoot ME. In null sec, I will have my blues, neutrals and reds sorted. In a NBSI region, I'm going to see you right away, and decide to stick it out or safe up. In low sec I guess I could safe up every time someone comes into the system. That'll make for a long day of missioning. The point is it's not worth the extra hassle of watching your back every second in low sec to do lvl 4's.
Ghengis Tia	Posted - 2009.10.16 21:29:00 - [13] First of all, my focus and ship fitting are all geared toward running the mission. If I decide to expose myself to danger, not fit my ship to handle that danger, and have a whole lot of other things that require my attention that prevents me from focusing on that danger, wouldn't most people think I'm an idiot? Most mission-runners would agree, we do not play this game to be regarded as idiots. Lo-sec mission running is the worst possible incidence of potential PvP. Why not just paint big bullseyes on your ship and announce in local "Please gank me"? If I decide to hang out in lo-sec, I'll be loaded for bear, and not carebear, thank you.
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2009.10.16 21:43:00 - [14] Originally by: Reachok The point is it's not worth the extra hassle of watching your back every second in low sec to do lvl 4's. That's your opinion. I would beg to differ. Seriously, surviving in low sec is a no-brainer. No bubbles = easy mode survival. _____________________________________________ -Sketch, Certified Pharmacist Need a Boost?
Babel Boom and Bust Economics Ltd. N0thing To See Here	Posted - 2009.10.16 22:05:00 - [15] Originally by: Ghoest So except for the few rare cases of an alliance protecting its mission runners in low sec or the rare empty mission system - no one likes it. Bzzzz ... Incorrect :) In response to other posts - There are not just 2 types of people in Eve [Pvp'ers / Missioners] but many many shades and flavours between the ends-of-the-scale playstyles usually termed 'carebear' and 'griefer' repectively. I prefer low/null sec missioning as finding someone vs. not being found is frequently a battle of wits rather than just dependant on having XXX skillpoints in category Z .. much like 'good' pvp. And the higher rewards ofc. . "Out of the good of evil born, Came Uriel's voice of cherub scorn"
Zeek Muaka Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.10.16 22:30:00 - [16] Edited by: Zeek Muaka on 16/10/2009 22:30:42 I've always found that missions/ratting in low sec and NPC 0.0 give a feeling of suspense to counter the fact that PVE is generally boring as hell. For some reason people have an idea they need an extremely expensive and pimped out faction battleship/marauder to do missions, when a Tech I fit Drake does the job. -edit- I really need to find that option to turn of the text click/drag feature in Firefox.
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2009.10.17 05:36:00 - [17] Used to, but since the scanning change it seems every pve venture into lowsec ends up with someone losing a ship ( last escalation it was everyone ), so I'm not going to bother anymore. This is probably at least partly to do with local lowsec being both a FW area and pretty full of pirates, but no experience I've had of lowsec so far has given me any desire to move there for good, even after spending quite some time randomly wandering around the quieter parts. I definitely don't want to sit around out there on my own, and I don't know anyone else who'd want to go out there when you can do much of the same stuff in null anyway.
King Rothgar Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.10.17 05:44:00 - [18] Edited by: King Rothgar on 17/10/2009 05:45:41 I'm a pirate and run missions, I don't run them in my home system since my home system only has a lvl2 personnel agent for a corp that hates me. Avoiding getting ganked in low sec is stupidly easy. Unfortunately that is far beyond the intelligence level of many people in high sec. I've lost a grand total of 1 pve ship in low sec in the past year, and I lost it to npc's while I was the only guy in local. The rewards are absolutely worth the risk if you aren't a complete dumbf*ck. Low sec missions pay about twice what high sec ones do and you can run lvl5's as well, those would be about 80k LP a piece. Let's see you make that kind of money in high sec. -----------------------------------------------------
Miriiah	Posted - 2009.10.17 06:51:00 - [19] Edited by: Miriiah on 17/10/2009 06:51:59 Originally by: King Rothgar Edited by: King Rothgar on 17/10/2009 05:45:41 I'm a pirate and run missions, I don't run them in my home system since my home system only has a lvl2 personnel agent for a corp that hates me. Avoiding getting ganked in low sec is stupidly easy. Unfortunately that is far beyond the intelligence level of many people in high sec. I've lost a grand total of 1 pve ship in low sec in the past year, and I lost it to npc's while I was the only guy in local. The rewards are absolutely worth the risk if you aren't a complete dumbfck. Low sec missions pay about twice what high sec ones do and you can run lvl5's as well, those would be about 80k LP a piece. Let's see you make that kind of money in high sec. Yeah, it's like totally hard to scan down a Marauder. and to the response "fly something cheaper" or warp off if you see people/probes on dir scan, it's just slowing you down so much it's obviously not worth the hassle to get twice the LP if you spend even 50% longer per mission(LP isn't everything) oh yeah, if you've ever been caught/ever get catched by a Pilgrim or similar while flying around in lowsec doing whatever, you are a dumbfck then?
Carniflex Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.10.17 10:19:00 - [20] Yes. Many people run missions in low sec. Those are L5 missions. If you want to run L4 missions you do it either in hi sec in pimped ride or out in 0.0 with replacable ship. There is no point of doing them in low sec, as it's like 0.0 just harder to 'control'.

Spacing Cowboy Caldari Rule of Five The Junta	Posted - 2009.10.17 11:14:00 - [21] You don't see me there running missions, risk vs reward , high payout is nice, but it takes only one error (of my side) to lose a couple of missions worth of pay. Then i am better off, blitz'ing highsec missions, even a cheap drake / proper tank-fit ain't THAT cheap to make it worth the risk. No need to safe up, no need to wait out a potential threat, No need to pass a camped gate, no need to .. ect... If i want to pvp, i come with the adjusted fit, and don't have the risk getting cought with my shield already at 50%.
Ben Harrigan	Posted - 2009.10.17 11:15:00 - [22] I tend to do low-sec or null-sec missions once in a while, and I also do exploration sites in low-sec. Mostly for a change of pace, and to see new stuff, meet new people. I would certainly welcome some changes to risk/reward ratios to make it more worthwhile, although I don't think fixed cash or LP rewards would be worth it. In terms of missions they would have to have unique rewards, the price of which would be balanced by market prices. If you can only get gadget X in low-sec missions, and no one think it is worth the risk, then the price will rise and make it worth it. This works pretty well for faction drops acquired from plexes. If I do hi-sec missions and pull a mission going into low-sec I might very well go and do it just to avoid the cooldown on turning down a mission. PvP and PvE isn't separate for me. I like it when things are interweaved like that.
Burnharder	Posted - 2009.10.17 11:33:00 - [23] Edited by: Burnharder on 17/10/2009 11:33:42 I've done loads of missions in low sec, mostly in space protected by an alliance (close to their 0.0 choke-point). But I still prefer missions in high sec, because even with protection you still need to pay attention to your scanner/local. PvE content is generally something we do when we want to switch off our brains (same as mining), but still earn. Doing level 4's in low sec isn't worth the extra LP/reward. I still think the idea of Viceroy's in low sec, controlling stations (and gaining docking fees/refining fees, etc.) is a great idea. Give corps some reason to protect the space mission runners/miners/explorers use and they will be more likely to use it.
clixor	Posted - 2009.10.17 12:04:00 - [24] I dont bother MR in lo-sec as the rewards are not up to par with the rewards. I was thinking about doing them in a T3 ship. As they are very hard to scan down. The other problem is that if you're got you almost certainly will lose you're ship. 1vs1 or 2 you can survive but if you look at the KB in most cases you will face a whole gang.
Ariane VoxDei	Posted - 2009.10.17 12:26:00 - [25] Originally by: Bellac The OP covered it nicely. If you are running missions your ship is set up for PvE and as such any PvP engagement is stacked greatly in favour of the attacker who will be prepared for the PvP engament. If there was little difference between fits in PvP and PvE then I guess you would get alot more mission runners dipping their toes in the combat arena. Until that day the two types of combat are best left well apart. No that won't cover it at all. You still have 2 things going against you as a mission runner: 1) you are the one who has npc rats beating on you - your attacker(s) do not. And that not considering the worstcase, where the npc's have you tackled and you have not yet gotten rids of those elite frigs. 2) Missioning is mainly a one-man activity, whereas "pvp'ers" tend to show up in numbers, so even if you were pvp fitted you can forget it. It is bad business to run missions as gang and while you could, to reap the extra pay and LP, that time of your buddies is not free (assuming they are online and have that kind of time at all) - which eats up the incentive which you would realize if you did even a rough estimate of it. You might break even if you have a 2man op blitzing things and don't get disturbed much, but try that in pvp setups and with 3 people, which would be the minimum. Even so, those options are only for those of a certain SP class. Under those circumstances it is pretty clear that the rewards would have to be rather insane - in fact so insane that the socalled pirates and pvp'ers would rather spend time doing their own missions. I'm not talking just 5x rewards, I suspect you have to go to 30x or more. And that would only work for a while, while their wallets get fat, then it's back to the old misbehaviour. As it is, a agent in 0.3 pays about double LP of a 0.8 agent of same quality, but it is just not worth going out there any more. It's not just risk vs reward there, it is certain loss (either ship or time, +standings loss) vs reward. Risk vs reward is only something you are allowed to drag out as a argument if the risk (of loss or severely diminished return on the time invested) can regularly be mitigated or avoided in various ways (SP, flying the right ship/setup, skillful play, vigilance) without significantly impacting the reward in a negative way. Sadly, the "pvp" proponents (i tend to think of them as the nubs in shooters who want everyone else to stand still and get shot) tend to talk, argue and apparently think, that the avoidance costs they force on others who mission in lowsec have no cost. That is exactly the same kind of stupid line of thought that the "minerals you mine yourself are free" crowd is guilty of, (blissfully) ignorant of a term such as opportunity cost. People run missions for profit, not for fun, not for challenge, not for pvp (except indirectly to fund pvp). When you upset, delay and slow down that, then of course that lowers the return on investment and drives away "potential business opportunities". Anyway, downtime ended a few minutes ago and I some pve stuff that needs doing.
Dungheap Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.10.17 12:28:00 - [26] Originally by: XXSketchxx Originally by: Mara Rinn Originally by: XXSketchxx The problem with most carebears is they see low sec as an "I'm going to get killed instantly" zone. Most cannot be persuaded away from this mentality. It only takes getting killed once every few dozen missions to make it not worth the effort. Then don't get killed. Its really not that hard. Originally by: XXSketchxx Originally by: Reachok The point is it's not worth the extra hassle of watching your back every second in low sec to do lvl 4's. That's your opinion. I would beg to differ. Seriously, surviving in low sec is a no-brainer. No bubbles = easy mode survival. welp.. a quick trip over to battleclinic shows you don't seem to know what you're talking about. thanks for posting anyway. i ran lo secs for my first six months or so. and i know no amount of aligning or beating on the scanner will get you through a decent gate camp. pay for a second account to scout or get a partner and make half the isk is a choice but neither is very good. ccp has a twisted idea of what is pvp. i refuse to be pirate food !!
Kaya Divine Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2009.10.17 12:29:00 - [27] Edited by: Kaya Divine on 17/10/2009 12:30:01 Originally by: clixor I dont bother MR in lo-sec as the rewards are not up to par with the rewards. I was thinking about doing them in a T3 ship. As they are very hard to scan down. The other problem is that if you're got you almost certainly will lose you're ship. 1vs1 or 2 you can survive but if you look at the KB in most cases you will face a whole gang. + rats on you...not fun. Now low security because its lawless is much more dangerous then 0.0 and less rewarding. It could be fixed so that any module which could prevent you from warping in low sec couldn't be activated. So you would need good bumping skills to get KM, or big organized gang with beastly alphas. But that would just squeeze tears from pirates. Shoot your shot...
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2009.10.17 12:36:00 - [28] Originally by: Dungheap welp.. a quick trip over to battleclinic shows you don't seem to know what you're talking about. thanks for posting anyway. ever heard of a missioning alt? or how bout an indy alt (cause thats all sketch does) yeah..nice detective work there holmes _____________________________________________ -Sketch, Certified Pharmacist Need a Boost?
FlameGlow Legio Octae Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.17 13:12:00 - [29] Originally by: Tirrus Rex So why do missions in low sec space? More LP and you can do many of lvl 4s on a capital, duh _____________ I don't care what is nerfed, as long as it's not my "undock" button.
Dungheap Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2009.10.17 13:26:00 - [30] Originally by: XXSketchxx Edited by: XXSketchxx on 17/10/2009 12:41:13 Originally by: Dungheap welp.. a quick trip over to battleclinic shows you don't seem to know what you're talking about. thanks for posting anyway. ever heard of a missioning alt? or how bout an indy alt (cause thats all sketch does) yeah..nice detective work there holmes edit: oh and as for "can't get by gatecamp"...we're not really discussing that here. We're discussing if its viable/worthwhile to run lvl 4s in low sec. Obviously your lvl 4 mission raven isn't going to make it far past the chokepoints... Try this on for size: 1. Get blockade runner. 2. Load blockade runner with HAC + modules 3. Bypass gatecamp (NO WAY?!?!?!?!) 4. Set up in system of your choice. 5. Make bank. Too much work for the average carebear? Probably. Worthwhile to the people that want to have a bit of fun (yes risk can = fun) and make a tidy sum of isk? Definitely. Back to the op: it all comes down to how much people really understand low sec. As some here have pointed out, it is definitely worthwhile to run missions in low sec over high sec if you know what you are doing and can be safe about it. Obviously setting up in the middle of Caldari FW space is probably a bad idea. I do agree with the masses that low sec needs some more buffs/incentives and that those viceroy things/corruption mentioned at FanFest would be great and welcomed additions to low sec. call yourself a hauler alt / mission runner alt, call yourself a potato if you like; you have the skills to fly a ship you claim is safe, and there you lose the exact type of ship in lo sec.. this is your quotes: "Then don't get killed. Its really not that hard." "Seriously, surviving in low sec is a no-brainer. No bubbles = easy mode survival." and then you suggest getting a blockade runner with a hac inside? judging from your loss, it's not the safest way to travel.. those are two expensive ships that take a lot of skills. the destination system has no station what then? yes we are talking about running mission in lo sec and many of those require you to travel to another system. as you said yourself: "Obviously your lvl 4 mission raven isn't going to make it far past the chokepoints..." ok so then what would you suggest ?



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