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Fix the myrmidon and eos

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abrasive soap Bannable Offense. Petition This	Posted - 2009.10.17 16:06:00 - [1] Edited by: abrasive soap on 17/10/2009 16:08:42 They need 125 bandwith... You cannot sustain their tank anymore with cap boosters for very long, and neuts completely destroy them. They need an entire rack of heavy drones, not 4, not 3 and like 2 lights or something, they need 5 heavy drones. The whole idea of mixing drones is stupid, as you end up having a set of drones that are bad at every situation rather than having 5 lights for frigates and 5 heavies for battlecruisers on up (of course you could try to use them on cruisers but with the web nerf coupled with the myrmidon's crap speed they can easily get away from them). Gallente is supposed to be the close range, damage dealing, drone dps race, yet the current myrmidon is more of a jack of all trades and master of none. I would like to see a myrmidon that has a hybrid gun damage bonus, the current drone bonus, 6 highs, 4 mids, and 6 lows, with 125 bandwith and 150 dronebay. This would still give the ishtar the advantage in drone versatility but would allow the myrmidon to outdamage the ishtar once again. The 4 midslots would allow you to fit enough tackle to use the ship effectively, while preventing the myrmidon from shield tanking well. This new myrmidon would either be a strong damage dealer, with less tank and more focus on damage mods and larger guns, or it would be armored and produce less damage. For whatever reason, gallente is no longer known as the damage dealer race, despite damage being its intended role. Gallente are the second slowest race, with the worst range, yet many ships lose in damage and range or have a negligible advantage in damage while sacrificing their range for the modest increase. It is time to fix the myrmidon, and give reason to use it over a harbinger, hurricane or drake. The eos could also use this drone boost, as it is undoubtedly the worst command ship of its class, giving bonuses only to electronic warfare. This could be significant in all recon gangs, but the eos cannot keep up with these kinds of gangs, and even if it could it does not have a cloaking ability or the ability to use covert jump bridges, so it is just impractical to bring an eos currently. If the eos was given its 5 heavy drones back, it could then provide some damage for these recon gangs while granting them bonuses, giving it a reason for existing.
Neutrino Sunset Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Tread Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.17 16:44:00 - [2] Keep your gun damage bonus and leave the slots as they are. The shield tanking laser Myrm is one of the last remaining innovative setups in Eve now that CCP has managed to pigeon hole pretty much every other ship down to two or three useful setups. In armour tank config the midslots would make the Myrm a useful exploration boat (if it had better dps). 125mbit is too much and 150m3 dronebay is pants. 100mbit bandwidth and 250m3 dronebay would be much better imo. Same for the EOS.
abrasive soap Bannable Offense. Petition This	Posted - 2009.10.17 17:19:00 - [3] Originally by: Neutrino Sunset Keep your gun damage bonus and leave the slots as they are. The shield tanking laser Myrm is one of the last remaining innovative setups in Eve now that CCP has managed to pigeon hole pretty much every other ship down to two or three useful setups. In armour tank config the midslots would make the Myrm a useful exploration boat (if it had better dps). 125mbit is too much and 150m3 dronebay is pants. 100mbit bandwidth and 250m3 dronebay would be much better imo. Same for the EOS. the laser myrm isn't all that special; people only use it because the current myrm is terrible with a 2 year old repair bonus that was useful when nos wasn't horrible and a heavy drones which worked before webs and drones were nerfed with the nano nerf why would you even ask for 100mbit bandwith? being restricted to 4 heavy drones is bad enough, but being outdamaged by an ishtar is just a joke incomplete and mixed sets of drones are stupid
ZigZag Joe Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.17 17:28:00 - [4] myrm: needs 125m and 4 turrets or 100m and 6 turrets. keep the mids the same. eos needs either 125m bandwidth (note: still no damage bonus!) or 7 guns. i'd rather the bandwidth really. also, it needs a better drone bay bonus (35m3/level?) i also agree the mixed drones are stupid. on top of all that, drones need their missing HP. a flat 33% buff for kali HP changes and 20%/level of drone interfacing (10 drones -> 5 drones with 10 drones damage still only has 5 drones hp).
abrasive soap Bannable Offense. Petition This	Posted - 2009.10.17 17:39:00 - [5] Originally by: ZigZag Joe myrm: needs 125m and 4 turrets or 100m and 6 turrets. keep the mids the same. eos needs either 125m bandwidth (note: still no damage bonus!) or 7 guns. i'd rather the bandwidth really. also, it needs a better drone bay bonus (35m3/level?) i also agree the mixed drones are stupid. on top of all that, drones need their missing HP. a flat 33% buff for kali HP changes and 20%/level of drone interfacing (10 drones -> 5 drones with 10 drones damage still only has 5 drones hp). i would rather have drones than 6 turrets, but if the turret hardpoints are reduced i would want more dronebay to compensate
Araq Lacrimosa Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.17 19:59:00 - [6] Maybe I'm going senile, but wasn't bandwidth introduced to nerf the myrm from fielding 5 heavies? a thing reserved for the Ishtar, domi and larger? Okay, i'm no expert, but... As it is, I think the Myrm/Eos/Navy Vex trinity has to be reviewed... Eos-725 dps/1510 alpha Myrmidon-810 dps/1450 alpha Navy Vexor-896 dps/1510 alpha All ships had 4 Magstabs in the lows, fitted with as many neutron blaster 2's loaded with void M as they could fit. The Myrm and Eos both with 2 ogre2, 2 HH2, and a hob2. Navy Vex had 4 ogre2's.
Kanatta Jing	Posted - 2009.10.17 20:39:00 - [7] In PVE, of the trio Vex, Myrm and Domi, only the Myrm can actually make use of guns in a respectable fashion. The Myrm and the Domi both come with very impressive active tanks but the Myrm often over shadows the Domi in effective DPS. In PVP, the Myrm still has a very good active tank. If you lack the skills to Shield tank, the Myrm's active tank can still allows you to hold against small numbers of foes, in the absence of neuts. Now being totally crippled by neuts can be seen as a bad thing except... A Myrm only looses 50% DPS when ECM jammed, 25% DPS when Tracking Disrupted and as a brawler loosing nothing to sensor dampening. Heavy Drones aren't really all that anymore, very Anti-Battleship specific and being tied down to Sentries would kind of kneecap the mobility advantage of The Myrm. And lastly, I thought Myrmidons worked best with autocannons, with the 0 cap use and greater DPS stuff.
abrasive soap Bannable Offense. Petition This	Posted - 2009.10.17 20:53:00 - [8] Originally by: Kanatta Jing In PVE, of the trio Vex, Myrm and Domi, only the Myrm can actually make use of guns in a respectable fashion. The Myrm and the Domi both come with very impressive active tanks but the Myrm often over shadows the Domi in effective DPS. In PVP, the Myrm still has a very good active tank. If you lack the skills to Shield tank, the Myrm's active tank can still allows you to hold against small numbers of foes, in the absence of neuts. Now being totally crippled by neuts can be seen as a bad thing except... A Myrm only looses 50% DPS when ECM jammed, 25% DPS when Tracking Disrupted and as a brawler loosing nothing to sensor dampening. Heavy Drones aren't really all that anymore, very Anti-Battleship specific and being tied down to Sentries would kind of kneecap the mobility advantage of The Myrm. And lastly, I thought Myrmidons worked best with autocannons, with the 0 cap use and greater DPS stuff. The dominix does more damage in pve when it is fit with rails (like it should be...) The myrm's tank is not impressive because you can't sustain it. The cargo hold sucks and you can no longer rely on nos to run your modules. You state the myrmidon only loses 50% of its damage when jammed, but what does it matter when you can neither control your drones nor tackle anything? The myrmidon was only fit with autocannons by some people because it has no turret bonus either way, so some just fit autocannons to conserve cap and have extra powergrid, but autocannons, especially unbonused ones, do not out damage blasters.
darius mclever	Posted - 2009.10.17 21:16:00 - [9] so you mean a 1200 dps perma tank is not enough? (it even runs 4 rails with low cap usage ammo) weird ideas you have there.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2009.10.17 21:40:00 - [10] Just add 15 Mbit/s drones, Light Sentries and Light Combat. Then ships can finally use their 75 Mbit/s bandwidths without splitting drone sizes. -------- Ideas for: Mining
ZigZag Joe Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.17 21:51:00 - [11] Originally by: Abrazzar Just add 15 Mbit/s drones, Light Sentries and Light Combat. Then ships can finally use their 75 Mbit/s bandwidths without splitting drone sizes. This would accomplish nothing really except make it so you don't have to deal with mixed drones gheiness. The myrm and eos would still be subpar. @abrasive soap: agreed, myrm with 125m bandwidth is more important than the guns.
Dansel Gallente	Posted - 2009.10.17 22:19:00 - [12] Yeh, the myrmidon should get more dronebandiwdth, and a slightly larger dronebay. It was better before all the changes to diffrent mechanics, but it just doesnt really cut it anymore. Some goes for the Eos, atleast to some extent ----------------- Yay!!
DuKackBoon	Posted - 2009.10.17 22:33:00 - [13] Yep, the Myrm deffo needs 125mb drone bandwidth. What the hell am I supposed to do wit 3 heavies?!
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.10.17 23:19:00 - [14] Instead of messing with the dronebay (which can bite you in the rear several ways), why not increase the bonus slightly? Say, from 10 to 12.5% per level? That would give a myrmidon the equivalent of 4.875 heavy drones in damage but with less total HP for the drones compared to a domi or ishtar. (1.625 * 3 = 4.875 vs. 1.5*5 = 7.5). In return, it would make the myrmidon a bit better than the domi or ishtar versus small targets (slightly better bonus for its light and medium drones) 169 dead caps caught on video
abrasive soap Bannable Offense. Petition This	Posted - 2009.10.18 05:32:00 - [15] Originally by: Sokratesz Instead of messing with the dronebay (which can bite you in the rear several ways), why not increase the bonus slightly? Say, from 10 to 12.5% per level? That would give a myrmidon the equivalent of 4.875 heavy drones in damage but with less total HP for the drones compared to a domi or ishtar. (1.625 * 3 = 4.875 vs. 1.55 = 7.5). In return, it would make the myrmidon a bit better than the domi or ishtar versus small targets (slightly better bonus for its light and medium drones) Incomplete sets of drones are just annoying. If you do that you might as well reduce the bandwith to 50 because no one uses mixed sets (and if they do they never do the damage eft says they do) and it is just impractical to carry heavy or sentry drones when you can only use 3. Right now there is basically no reason to use a myrmidon over any of the other tier 2 bcs. Dancing around 75 bandwith is a waste of time, just give it a full set of heavies so it can fulfill a role other than being mediocre at everything and good at nothing. Originally by:* darius mclever so you mean a 1200 dps perma tank is not enough? (it even runs 4 rails with low cap usage ammo) weird ideas you have there. 0/10
Verlokiraptor Raptor Detection Agency	Posted - 2009.10.18 05:55:00 - [16] Out of all battlecruisers, the myrm has the smallest damage increase over the comparable cruiser: vexor = 75MB + 5 effective turrets, myrm = 75MB + 6 effective turrets. I like the idea of 4 turrets and 125MB myself, and wouldn't complain about a larger drone bay. Something I would also find hilarious is replacing the rep bonus with 5% gun damage but that's not something I seriously want.
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.10.18 08:21:00 - [17] Well it was clearly overpowered when it could carry 5 heavies - that's battleship/HAC class damage, so maybe 100 bandwidth as alternative, or giving up the gun bonus for a 4th and or 5th drone? 169 dead caps caught on video
Zeredek	Posted - 2009.10.18 08:52:00 - [18] I got depressed when i saw the bandwidth on the Eos, i mean come on! It's a Tech 2 Battlecruiser!
Miriiah	Posted - 2009.10.18 09:05:00 - [19] Edited by: Miriiah on 18/10/2009 09:13:26 Edited by: Miriiah on 18/10/2009 09:09:52 Originally by: Sokratesz Well it was clearly overpowered when it could carry 5 heavies - that's battleship/HAC class damage, so maybe 100 bandwidth as alternative, or giving up the gun bonus for a 4th and or 5th drone? When you just roflNoSed(this was the overpowered part) with heavies, yeah. 4 turrets 125m3 bandwidth and 250m3 drone bay. when Myrm was released I was very happy to actually have a drone BC, yeah it was sorta overpowered, but now with NoS being nerfed so badly and going down to 4 turrets(4 unbonused turrets isn't all that amazing) it would balance it out with being able to field 5 heavies AT VERY LEAST give it a try on the test server now that you're finally looking at fixing the other ships aswell,
Miriiah	Posted - 2009.10.18 10:00:00 - [20] Originally by: Zeredek I got depressed when i saw the bandwidth on the Eos, i mean come on! It's a Tech 2 Battlecruiser! Well to be fair, none of the Fleet Command ships can really do any damage, so Eos is kinda "fine" in that way atleast
Neutrino Sunset Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Tread Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.18 11:43:00 - [21] Originally by: abrasive soap the laser myrm isn't all that special Yes it is, recall that I didn't say it was special because it's particularly awesome, just that it is one of the few ship setups that is still different and surprising. Originally by: abrasive soap why would you even ask for 100mbit bandwith? Maybe because I estimate there is at least a remote chance of getting it, whereas I estimate your chance of getting 125mbit to be zero, since that's what it had before it was nerfed. Originally by: darius mclever so you mean a 1200 dps perma tank is not enough? Realistic PvP setup proof required. Originally by: Verlokiraptor vexor = 75MB + 5 effective turrets, myrm = 75MB + 6 effective turrets What's more a Myrm doesn't really even have 6 effective turrets since undocking without a neut these days is pretty risky and the Vexor has a utility high slot whereas the Myrm doesn't. Which means the Myrm either does no more damage than a Vexor at all, or it flies without a neut. Originally by: Sokratesz Well it was clearly overpowered when it could carry 5 heavies - that's battleship/HAC class damage Wft! Since when was a BC doing more dps than a cruiser (T2 or otherwise) overpowered?
Caldor Mansi	Posted - 2009.10.18 13:05:00 - [22] 2nd try, eh? http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1185488
Don Pellegrino	Posted - 2009.10.18 13:54:00 - [23] Originally by: "Neutrino Sunset" Maybe because I estimate there is at least a remote chance of getting it, whereas I estimate your chance of getting 125mbit to be zero, since that's what it had before it was nerfed. Yes, it had it before and it was overpowered considering the nos back then. Now that the nos are pretty much useless, 125mb bandwidth is what the Myrm needs (with 4 turrets). The Eos is just a shiny and expensive shuttle. It's broken on so many levels that I don't know where to start.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.10.18 14:16:00 - [24] Let me get this straight, you want ships to be overpowered because you find mixing drones to be "annoying" and "stupid" and because it's repair bonus is of marginal use as gang sizes has increased? Eos is a Fleet Command. It is utility not direct combat, you don't see Vultures, Damnations and Claymores running around as solo pwn-boats either. And what fleet doesn't benefit from boosting its eWar platforms and resistance to jamming? It is more limited but hardly useless. Myrmidon is the tanking BC, if you want upfront damage use the proper ship. Myrm still does insane damage when fitted for it and has a slot layout that makes every other BC green with envy. What you should have done was join the growing population lobbying for a return to local repair instead of the lame buffer/RR and Gallente boats will jump to the front again. Or suggested changes to the bonus on Fleet Commands as links are practically interchangeable with very little lost leaving no real reason to use the racials.
Suboran Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.10.18 14:21:00 - [25] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Let me get this straight, you want ships to be overpowered because you find mixing drones to be "annoying" and "stupid" and because it's repair bonus is of marginal use as gang sizes has increased? Eos is a Fleet Command. It is utility not direct combat, you don't see Vultures, Damnations and Claymores running around as solo pwn-boats either. And what fleet doesn't benefit from boosting its eWar platforms and resistance to jamming? It is more limited but hardly useless. Myrmidon is the tanking BC, if you want upfront damage use the proper ship. Myrm still does insane damage when fitted for it and has a slot layout that makes every other BC green with envy. What you should have done was join the growing population lobbying for a return to local repair instead of the lame buffer/RR and Gallente boats will jump to the front again. Or suggested changes to the bonus on Fleet Commands as links are practically interchangeable with very little lost leaving no real reason to use the racials. These ships where once very useable and very popular however, they were butchered in the drone bandwidth changes, now you only see noobs flying myrmidons. Eos... the only one I have seen in recent times was used for mining bonuses because it was cheap. These ships absolutly need the 5 heavy drones to be competetive with the other races battlecruisers.
Caldor Mansi	Posted - 2009.10.18 14:27:00 - [26] Originally by: Suboran These ships where once very useable and very popular however, they were butchered in the drone bandwidth changes, now you only see noobs flying myrmidons. Eos... the only one I have seen in recent times was used for mining bonuses because it was cheap. These ships absolutly need the 5 heavy drones to be competetive with the other races battlecruisers. If you need a OP ship to be competitive, only noob here is you. Myrmidon is fine.
nafiy gnaw	Posted - 2009.10.18 14:43:00 - [27] Originally by: abrasive soap Originally by: Neutrino Sunset Keep your gun damage bonus and leave the slots as they are. The shield tanking laser Myrm is one of the last remaining innovative setups in Eve now that CCP has managed to pigeon hole pretty much every other ship down to two or three useful setups. In armour tank config the midslots would make the Myrm a useful exploration boat (if it had better dps). 125mbit is too much and 150m3 dronebay is pants. 100mbit bandwidth and 250m3 dronebay would be much better imo. Same for the EOS. the laser myrm isn't all that special; people only use it because the current myrm is terrible with a 2 year old repair bonus that was useful when nos wasn't horrible and a heavy drones which worked before webs and drones were nerfed with the nano nerf why would you even ask for 100mbit bandwith? being restricted to 4 heavy drones is bad enough, but being outdamaged by an ishtar is just a joke incomplete and mixed sets of drones are stupid Actually, its not that uncommon that HACs being able to outdamage BCs.
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Endemic Aggression Exalted.	Posted - 2009.10.18 14:51:00 - [28] 5 heavy myrmidon was just crazy compared to other bc's and bs's. 5 heavy ishtar is still crazy compared to other hacs and bc's. Hurt by neuts much? welcome to active tanking world. Neuts would've needed nerf bat same time with nos. Neuts not only make it very difficult to have good active tanking setups if your ship can't fit cap booster in some sensible way, but also hurt capital ships more than they should.
Saulc Neslo	Posted - 2009.10.18 15:04:00 - [29] What is the downside to using 1s+2m+2h compared to using 3 heavy drones? To me the 1+2+2 looks far superior. I havnt been flying the myrm enough to say if it does to little damage. But looking at the drone bay it seems that it can easily carry: 5 lights for fighting small stuff 5 meds for fighting medium sized stuff 1+2+2 for fighting bs's
Miriiah	Posted - 2009.10.18 16:50:00 - [30] Originally by: Laechyd Eldgorn 5 heavy ishtar is still crazy compared to other hacs and bc's. Yeah, that's why you see so many Ishtars compared to Zealots and Vagas
Kalia Masaer Rosa Castellum	Posted - 2009.10.18 17:18:00 - [31] So some of you say the myrm does not a have a correct ratio to the Vexor, well i guess I can agree to that but you do realize that the Vexor is ridiculously powerful for a T1 cruiser. It can easily do 579 dps with T1 ammo without overheating or implants and that puts it over 100 dps ahead of most other cruisers. Yes that is with 1/2/2 drones. Still a cruiser that can do that sort of damage to a BS. If you gave the myrm proportionate power as most races cruisers to BC's who would bother to fly a Dominix.
Miriiah	Posted - 2009.10.18 17:26:00 - [32] Originally by: Kalia Masaer So some of you say the myrm does not a have a correct ratio to the Vexor, well i guess I can agree to that but you do realize that the Vexor is ridiculously powerful for a T1 cruiser. It can easily do 579 dps with T1 ammo without overheating or implants and that puts it over 100 dps ahead of most other cruisers. Yes that is with 1/2/2 drones. Still a cruiser that can do that sort of damage to a BS. If you gave the myrm proportionate power as most races cruisers to BC's who would bother to fly a Dominix. Link fitting plx (t1 "ammo" = t1 drones aswell)
Caldor Mansi	Posted - 2009.10.18 17:37:00 - [33] Originally by: Miriiah Link fitting plx (t1 "ammo" = t1 drones aswell) Drones are no ammo. With 800mm plate buffer you get 550 DPS, 585 DPS with CN faction ammo.
Caldor Mansi	Posted - 2009.10.18 17:43:00 - [34] Originally by: Kalia Masaer So some of you say the myrm does not a have a correct ratio to the Vexor, well i guess I can agree to that but you do realize that the Vexor is ridiculously powerful for a T1 cruiser. It can easily do 579 dps with T1 ammo without overheating or implants and that puts it over 100 dps ahead of most other cruisers. Yes that is with 1/2/2 drones. Still a cruiser that can do that sort of damage to a BS. If you gave the myrm proportionate power as most races cruisers to BC's who would bother to fly a Dominix. I wish there was Amarr T1 cruiser dealing 479 DPS :-/
Miriiah	Posted - 2009.10.18 17:45:00 - [35] Edited by: Miriiah on 18/10/2009 17:46:28 Originally by: Caldor Mansi Edited by: Caldor Mansi on 18/10/2009 17:38:53 Originally by: Miriiah Link fitting plx (t1 "ammo" = t1 drones aswell) Drones are no ammo. With 800mm plate buffer you get 550 DPS, 585 DPS with CN faction ammo. No rigs. no it's not, but counting dps saying you're just using t1 ammo when over 50% of the dps is from drones is fail [Vexor, Shield Buffergank] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I Large Shield Extender II Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M [empty high slot] Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Ogre II x2 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1 Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x5 684 all 5, that's how to fit a gank vexor;o "I wish there was Amarr T1 cruiser dealing 479 DPS :-/" yeah. Amarr doesn't FOTM at cruisers, just everything else
Caldor Mansi	Posted - 2009.10.18 18:21:00 - [36] Originally by: Miriiah no it's not, but counting dps saying you're just using t1 ammo when over 50% of the dps is from drones is fail [Vexor, Shield Buffergank] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I Large Shield Extender II Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M Heavy Electron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge M [empty high slot] Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Ogre II x2 Hammerhead II x2 Hobgoblin II x1 Light Shield Maintenance Bot I x5 684 all 5, that's how to fit a gank vexor;o "I wish there was Amarr T1 cruiser dealing 479 DPS :-/" yeah. Amarr doesn't FOTM at cruisers, just everything else Drones are no ammunition, they are not consumables. They are destructible guns. Also I see no point in posting your pointless fit...
abrasive soap Bannable Offense.	Posted - 2009.10.18 18:39:00 - [37] You use a dominix over other things because it has a stronger tank, more drone versatility, and it has the ability to use large neuts, remote repairs, and what not. The ishtar is the ONLY hac that outdamages its racial battlecruisers. Where people get the idea that a zealot outdamages a harbinger and a vaga outdamages a hurricane, and a cerberus outdamges a drake I don't know. Why do people think 5 heavy drones are a problem? Sure it might have been with the drone tracking not being horrible before the nano nerf and nos being ridiculous with webs, but now all you can do is field a mediocre tank that lasts for a relatively short amount of time due to having a fairly small cargo hold and crap versatility because the ishtar has more bandwith and dronebay. Consider this, what if the vagabond's bonuses were changed to drone related bonuses and you kept the 5 turrets while still having a small drone bay. It would be like the current myrmidon. You are relying on unbonused weapons to produce a still mediocre damage output because your main weapon system is horrendously limited. Gallente is INTENDED to produce the most damage with the least range, so what is the problem with allowing the myrmidon to do this.
nafiy gnaw	Posted - 2009.10.18 20:52:00 - [38] Originally by: abrasive soap The ishtar is the ONLY hac that outdamages its racial battlecruisers. Where people get the idea that a zealot outdamages a harbinger and a vaga outdamages a hurricane, and a cerberus outdamges a drake I don't know. Actually, no. Unless Prophecy isnt an Amarr BC or Ferox isnt a Caldari BC. Ishtar certainly cant outdamage a Brutix, also, which, -I think-, is a Gallente BC.
abrasive soap Bannable Offense.	Posted - 2009.10.19 02:44:00 - [39] Originally by: nafiy gnaw Originally by: abrasive soap The ishtar is the ONLY hac that outdamages its racial battlecruisers. Where people get the idea that a zealot outdamages a harbinger and a vaga outdamages a hurricane, and a cerberus outdamges a drake I don't know. Actually, no. Unless Prophecy isnt an Amarr BC or Ferox isnt a Caldari BC. Ishtar certainly cant outdamage a Brutix, also, which, -I think-, is a Gallente BC. I am referring to tier 2 bcs because all of the tier 1 bcs are broken. You can argue that gank fit brutixes aren't broken, but 5 lows is pretty crap for an armor tanked battlecruiser. Also, when you gank fit the ishtar and brutix, the ishtar comes within 21 dps of the brutix.
Caldor Mansi	Posted - 2009.10.19 14:18:00 - [40] Edited by: Caldor Mansi on 19/10/2009 14:18:15 Originally by: abrasive soap I really don't see the problem with the vexor doing that kind of damage when it doesn't even have a tank fit. You have no range whatsoever, your heavy drones won't hit anything sub bs for any significant amount of damage (if you wanted them to hit you would need a web anyways, maybe two) and an omen and rupture could easily kill it because both are faster and have more range. 550 DPS Vexor can still fit a 800mm plate or 1600mm if used with small guns. The LSE fit is only usable in 5vs1 engagements for pure gank. Omen has absolutely no tank and no DPS, it has got range only and it can't kill anything solo. Yes, Rupture is gonna kill probably anything but somehow I fail to see how it makes Amar boats better...
abrasive soap Bannable Offense.	Posted - 2009.10.20 01:04:00 - [41] Originally by: Caldor Mansi Edited by: Caldor Mansi on 19/10/2009 14:18:15 Originally by: abrasive soap I really don't see the problem with the vexor doing that kind of damage when it doesn't even have a tank fit. You have no range whatsoever, your heavy drones won't hit anything sub bs for any significant amount of damage (if you wanted them to hit you would need a web anyways, maybe two) and an omen and rupture could easily kill it because both are faster and have more range. 550 DPS Vexor can still fit a 800mm plate or 1600mm if used with small guns. The LSE fit is only usable in 5vs1 engagements for pure gank. Omen has absolutely no tank and no DPS, it has got range only and it can't kill anything solo. Yes, Rupture is gonna kill probably anything but somehow I fail to see how it makes Amar boats better... And can't an 800 plate rupture also do 550 dps as well as a thorax? [Omen, New Setup 1] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Large Shield Extender II Warp Disruptor II Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Focused Medium Pulse Laser II, Scorch M Hobgoblin II x3 This works pretty well
Alxea	Posted - 2009.10.20 02:04:00 - [42] DPS with level 5 skills largest guns and 3 damage mods. Zealot Max DPS 668 with high damage ammo and overloading. Eagle 584 DPS Same as above. Muninn 664 DPS Vagabond 746 DPS Deimos 889 DPS Ishtar NO GUNS 475 DPS Drone damage Ogre ll's Ishtar No GUNS 538 Sentry damage Garde ll's damage rigs. Ishtar with small guns roughly 600 DPS. All these are heavy buffers with 1600mm plate and pg imps and pg rigs with as much DPS as stacking will allow before they become useless roughly after the 3rd damage mod besides B.C's (4th helps with ROF). Ishtars have pg issues fitting the largest guns. They can't the the buffer of a deimos or a zealot with damage mods. But with a 800mm plate and a dc and 3 mag stabs and the largest guns for the record can do... Ishtar with guns 826 DPS + ogre ll's. Just so we tried for max DPS. Also missile boats... Sacr 707 DPS 3 damage mods HAM fitted. Cerb 686 with 4 damage mods HAM fitted. Ishtar's are the most difficult ships to fit with guns because they have a very poor PG. This is why guns are most of the time not used with them. They actually do the lowest DPS of all the hac's. But can buffer tank well because you don't need guns since your main damage comes from drones.
Alxea	Posted - 2009.10.20 02:35:00 - [43] Edited by: Alxea on 20/10/2009 02:36:44 2ndly the Myrm can do 846 DPS with a 3 mag stab gank fit and overloaded. A eos can do 794 DPS again with 3 magstabs. A eos needs the drone bonuses. A brutix can do over 1000 DPS and its a Tier 1 ship, Tier 2 ships should do more dps. Astarte does the most of any CS, 1200 DPS with similar fits.
abrasive soap Bannable Offense.	Posted - 2009.10.20 05:46:00 - [44] Originally by: Alxea Edited by: Alxea on 20/10/2009 02:17:34 Edited by: Alxea on 20/10/2009 02:08:56 DPS with level 5 skills largest guns and 3 damage mods. Zealot Max DPS 668 with high damage ammo and overloading. Eagle 584 DPS Same as above. Muninn 664 DPS Vagabond 746 DPS Deimos 889 DPS Ishtar NO GUNS 475 DPS Drone damage Ogre ll's Ishtar No GUNS 538 Sentry damage Garde ll's damage rigs. Ishtar with small guns roughly 550 DPS. All these are heavy buffers with 1600mm plate and pg imps and pg rigs with as much DPS as stacking will allow before they become useless roughly after the 3rd damage mod besides B.C's (4th helps with ROF). Ishtars have pg issues fitting the largest guns. They can't the the buffer of a deimos or a zealot with damage mods. But with a 800mm plate and a dc and 3 mag stabs and the largest guns for the record can do... Ishtar with guns 826 DPS + ogre ll's. Just so we tried for max DPS. Also missile boats... Sacr 707 DPS 3 damage mods HAM fitted. Cerb 686 with 4 damage mods HAM fitted. Ishtar's are the most difficult ships to fit with guns because they have a very poor PG. This is why guns are most of the time not used with them. They actually do the lowest DPS of all the hac's when fitted for buffer. But can buffer tank well because you don't need guns since your main damage comes from drones. But yes they can also gank you just have a paper tank compared to other hac's. Ishtars just lack the freedom of other ships with massive buffers when you fit them for dps because of the lack of pg and such. Shield buffers however are a different matter on them, you can get more ehp but you have to sacrifice tackle. This would be for when you have tacklers with you. Its just easier on the pg. 'high damage ammo and overloading' i stopped reading here 'Vagabond 746 DPS' then i stopped reading again here 'Ishtar with small guns roughly 550 DPS.' then i started laughing at your unequal comparison 'Sacr 707 DPS 3 damage mods HAM fitted. Cerb 686 with 4 damage mods HAM fitted.' continued laughing here 'Ishtar's are the most difficult ships to fit with guns because they have a very poor PG. This is why guns are most of the time not used with them. They actually do the lowest DPS of all the hac's when fitted for buffer. But can buffer tank well because you don't need guns since your main damage comes from drones. But yes they can also gank you just have a paper tank compared to other hac's.' almost could not continue reading because i was laughing so hard 'Ishtars just lack the freedom of other ships with massive buffers when you fit them for dps because of the lack of pg and such. Shield buffers however are a different matter on them, you can get more ehp but you have to sacrifice tackle. This would be for when you have tacklers with you. Its just easier on the pg.' haha, oh wow '2ndly the Myrm can do 846 DPS with a 3 mag stab gank fit and overloaded. A eos can do 794 DPS again with 3 magstabs. A eos needs the drone bonuses. A brutix can do over 1000 DPS and its a Tier 1 ship, Tier 2 ships should do more dps. Astarte does the most of any CS, 1200 DPS with similar fits.' totally relevant considering the myrmidon can neither overload forever nor has a gun bonus making your overloading figures completely moot What is the point of comparing these using the largest guns and the highest damage ammo that no one, except for people who know no better, use, while overloading which can be done for maybe 20 seconds with guns. No one even uses zealots in close range unless they are utterly horrible, nor do they use blaster eagles, no one even uses the muninn, no one uses hail on vagabonds, and hardly anyone uses the deimos because you die getting into range to do your totally sick dps, bro, and those that do use the deimos certainly do not use void. The sacrilege and cerberus comparisons are just a joke because hams do not do full damage to cruisers and in most cases, battlecruisers.
abrasive soap Bannable Offense.	Posted - 2009.10.20 05:59:00 - [45] Edited by: abrasive soap on 20/10/2009 05:59:52 My whole point is that the myrmidon sacrifices far too much to do the current amount of damage it does. There is a reason why people use harbingers, drakes and hurricanes over myrmidons. The reason is range, and to a lesser degree, speed and buffer tank.
Caldor Mansi	Posted - 2009.10.20 09:09:00 - [46] Originally by: abrasive soap This works pretty well It works 'well' in groups only. Nothing comparable to perfromance of Vexor, Thorax or Rupture. Only viable Amarr T1 cruiser in this case is a drone boat - Arbitrator, and even then the ship is no way near to ships said above. Originally by: abrasive soap My whole point is that the myrmidon sacrifices far too much to do the current amount of damage it does. There is a reason why people use harbingers, drakes and hurricanes over myrmidons. The reason is range, and to a lesser degree, speed and buffer tank. Myrm can have same buffer while dishing same/or greater DPS. It does not have range, like all non-sentry and blaster boats but it can fill nice utility role with RR and e-war. Like all drones boats it does well the jack of all trades due high versatility.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.10.20 09:43:00 - [47] Originally by: Zeredek I got depressed when i saw the bandwidth on the Eos, i mean come on! It's a Tech 2 Battlecruiser! Compared to the DPS beasts like... the Vulture, you mean?
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.10.20 09:47:00 - [48] Woah, I thought that the role of Fleet CS was to provide gang bonuses. Now I see that it's to be a solopwnmobile. Or is that just the Gallente one?
abrasive soap Bannable Offense.	Posted - 2009.10.21 02:01:00 - [49] Edited by: abrasive soap on 21/10/2009 02:04:30 Originally by: Caldor Mansi Originally by: abrasive soap This works pretty well It works 'well' in groups only. Nothing comparable to perfromance of Vexor, Thorax or Rupture. Only viable Amarr T1 cruiser in this case is a drone boat - Arbitrator, and even then the ship is no way near to ships said above. Originally by: abrasive soap My whole point is that the myrmidon sacrifices far too much to do the current amount of damage it does. There is a reason why people use harbingers, drakes and hurricanes over myrmidons. The reason is range, and to a lesser degree, speed and buffer tank. Myrm can have same buffer while dishing same/or greater DPS. It does not have range, like all non-sentry and blaster boats but it can fill nice utility role with RR and e-war. Like all drones boats it does well the jack of all trades due high versatility. No, actually I solo with that omen fit. If you don't even use it why are you commenting on how I should use it. Oh and it is also far faster than the vexor, thorax and plate rupture while doing more damage at 20km. Quote: Myrm can have same buffer while dishing same/or greater DPS. 0/10 Quote: like all non-sentry and blaster boats but it can fill nice utility role with RR and e-war -10/10 Quote: Woah, I thought that the role of Fleet CS was to provide gang bonuses. Now I see that it's to be a solopwnmobile. Or is that just the Gallente one? Because every ship fits electronic warfare, right? The other 3 commandships apply to and aid all other ships while the eos bonuses don't even come into play on most things. Giving it damage would give it a role, it still would not be a 'solopwnmobile' as nos is bad now and the cargo hold on the eos is awful. Oh, the range and speed are crap as well so a hurricane could kill it.
Saerinea Kael	Posted - 2009.10.21 06:29:00 - [50] Originally by: abrasive soap Edited by: abrasive soap on 21/10/2009 02:04:30 Originally by: Caldor Mansi Originally by: abrasive soap This works pretty well It works 'well' in groups only. Nothing comparable to perfromance of Vexor, Thorax or Rupture. Only viable Amarr T1 cruiser in this case is a drone boat - Arbitrator, and even then the ship is no way near to ships said above. Originally by: abrasive soap My whole point is that the myrmidon sacrifices far too much to do the current amount of damage it does. There is a reason why people use harbingers, drakes and hurricanes over myrmidons. The reason is range, and to a lesser degree, speed and buffer tank. Myrm can have same buffer while dishing same/or greater DPS. It does not have range, like all non-sentry and blaster boats but it can fill nice utility role with RR and e-war. Like all drones boats it does well the jack of all trades due high versatility. No, actually I solo with that omen fit. If you don't even use it why are you commenting on how I should use it. Oh and it is also far faster than the vexor, thorax and plate rupture while doing more damage at 20km. Quote: Myrm can have same buffer while dishing same/or greater DPS. 0/10 Quote: like all non-sentry and blaster boats but it can fill nice utility role with RR and e-war -10/10 Quote: Woah, I thought that the role of Fleet CS was to provide gang bonuses. Now I see that it's to be a solopwnmobile. Or is that just the Gallente one? Because every ship fits electronic warfare, right? The other 3 commandships apply to and aid all other ships while the eos bonuses don't even come into play on most things. Giving it damage would give it a role, it still would not be a 'solopwnmobile' as nos is bad now and the cargo hold on the eos is awful. Oh, the range and speed are crap as well so a hurricane could kill it. First of all, you do realize that fleet command ships are intended to be used in medium to large sized fleets, right? In case you didn't know, any fleet larger than about 15 ships or so (that expects an engagement with a similar sized fleet) worth its salt will have a dedicated electronic warfare squad/wing. But I suppose that you are too cool to fly in fleets, and would swear up and down that the real men in a strategy-based MMO fly solo. Second of all, I would like to comment on how much of a worthless poster you are. There is very little reason for me to post this because given your history in this thread you will cherry-pick the ideas from this post that you disagree with and post something along the lines of how you "stopped reading here" (while continuing reading) or how you "started lolling here" or assign a seemingly random number between "0" and "-1" implying that the intent of the post was to incite rage. If you really want your ideas to be heard and your posts to mean something you should actually give reasons as to why you disagree with an idea. That, however, would require you to actually read the posts you are responding to and show some basic signs of intelligence, something that judging by the contents of your previous posts, I suppose you cannot be assed to do.
Caldor Mansi	Posted - 2009.10.21 08:33:00 - [51] Originally by: abrasive soap No, actually I solo with that omen fit. If you don't even use it why are you commenting on how I should use it. Oh and it is also far faster than the vexor, thorax and plate rupture while doing more damage at 20km. Even nano Zealot needed a large cap battery for reasonable cap management and you are here saying how T1 Omen can do it without one. You can go hunting noobs and lol fitted ships but that does not make it a viable PVP option since you can do that in pretty much everything. As for the rest of your post, stop using ships way they are not intended or simply not working and ask for changes based on your misuse afterwards. No point discussing with you here.
Hatsumi Kobayashi Bannable Offense.	Posted - 2009.10.21 09:15:00 - [52] 'sup Soap Fighting the good fight I see. ______
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2009.10.21 10:58:00 - [53] Bleh, all this comparing to HACs is ****ing me off, sorry. Right. Brutix: 7 Neutrons @ FN Anti w/ 3 MFS II + 5 Hammer IIs = 860 DPS Myrmidon: 6 Neutrons @ FN Anti w/ 3 MFS II + 2 Ogre II, 2 Hammer II, 1 Hob II = 796 DPS Why is the DPS lower on the tier 2 Battlecruiser e.e www.siigarikitawa.com ò www.eohpoker.com ò Buy a GTC
Caldor Mansi	Posted - 2009.10.21 11:41:00 - [54] Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Bleh, all this comparing to HACs is ****ing me off, sorry. Right. Brutix: 7 Neutrons @ FN Anti w/ 3 MFS II + 5 Hammer IIs = 860 DPS Myrmidon: 6 Neutrons @ FN Anti w/ 3 MFS II + 2 Ogre II, 2 Hammer II, 1 Hob II = 796 DPS Why is the DPS lower on the tier 2 Battlecruiser e.e Because Myrm has spare PG+CPU for tank and other mods while Brutix can't even fit a MWD with set of Neutrons. It is really pointless to pull out numbers reflecting non-existing ships..
abrasive soap Bannable Offense.	Posted - 2009.10.22 00:29:00 - [55] Originally by: Caldor Mansi Edited by: Caldor Mansi on 21/10/2009 17:36:43 Originally by: abrasive soap No, actually I solo with that omen fit. If you don't even use it why are you commenting on how I should use it. Oh and it is also far faster than the vexor, thorax and plate rupture while doing more damage at 20km. Even nano Zealot needed a large cap battery for reasonable cap management and you are here saying how T1 Omen can do it without one. You can go hunting noobs and lol fitted ships but that does not make it a viable PVP option since you can do that in pretty much anything. As for the rest of your post, stop using ships way they are not intended or simply not working and ask for changes based on your misuse afterwards. No point discussing with you here. You don't perma run your mwd, bro. I am guessing you also fit large cap batteries on your vagabonds. You sir, are the worst troll ever. You're basically calling anything with blasters or autocannons lol fitted. Quote: First of all, you do realize that fleet command ships are intended to be used in medium to large sized fleets, right? In case you didn't know, any fleet larger than about 15 ships or so (that expects an engagement with a similar sized fleet) worth its salt will have a dedicated electronic warfare squad/wing. But I suppose that you are too cool to fly in fleets, and would swear up and down that the real men in a strategy-based MMO fly solo. Second of all, I would like to comment on how much of a worthless poster you are. There is very little reason for me to post this because given your history in this thread you will cherry-pick the ideas from this post that you disagree with and post something along the lines of how you "stopped reading here" (while continuing reading) or how you "started lolling here" or assign a seemingly random number between "0" and "-1" implying that the intent of the post was to incite rage. If you really want your ideas to be heard and your posts to mean something you should actually give reasons as to why you disagree with an idea. That, however, would require you to actually read the posts you are responding to and show some basic signs of intelligence, something that judging by the contents of your previous posts, I suppose you cannot be assed to do. Do you even play this game? When you get gangs above medium size (which is like what, 50 in today's game?) ewar becomes totally irrelevant as everything just instapops, namely the ewar, or it is too laggy to matter. No one runs electronic warfare in blobs except for like mostly harmless and other terrible nc alliances because it doesn't matter and it gets primaried anyways. Electronic warfare only matters in smaller gangs so you can disable enemy ships and even the odds or tilt the odds in your favor. If you have used electronic warfare in a large fleet fight, please link your killmail so I can believe you (if you brought one to a fleet fight it is guaranteed that you lost your ship or you were useless).
Caldor Mansi	Posted - 2009.10.22 00:41:00 - [56] Originally by: abrasive soap You don't perma run your mwd, bro. I am guessing you also fit large cap batteries on your vagabonds. You sir, are the worst troll ever. You're basically calling anything with blasters or autocannons lol fitted. Sure you will cycle your MWD while Rupture/Thorax/Vexor is burning full speed towards you... I give you 40s before you cap out and you might even make 5% of armor damage before it gets you or you are forced to warp off. Any PVP fitted cruiser or BC has MWD fitted and it will be the same story as example above so what are you actually going to engage...?
abrasive soap Bannable Offense.	Posted - 2009.10.22 00:46:00 - [57] Originally by: Caldor Mansi Originally by: abrasive soap You don't perma run your mwd, bro. I am guessing you also fit large cap batteries on your vagabonds. You sir, are the worst troll ever. You're basically calling anything with blasters or autocannons lol fitted. Sure you will cycle your MWD while Rupture/Thorax/Vexor is burning full speed towards you... I give you 40s before you cap out and you might even make 5% of armor damage before it gets you or you are forced to warp off. Any PVP fitted cruiser or BC has MWD fitted and it will be the same story as example above so what are you actually going to engage...? bro, all ships have a capacitor, bro omen has a pretty good capacitor dawg
Caldor Mansi	Posted - 2009.10.22 00:57:00 - [58] Originally by: abrasive soap bro, all ships have a capacitor, bro omen has a pretty good capacitor dawg You have no clue what you talk about.
abrasive soap Bannable Offense.	Posted - 2009.10.22 00:58:00 - [59] Originally by: Caldor Mansi Originally by: abrasive soap bro, all ships have a capacitor, bro omen has a pretty good capacitor dawg You have no clue what you talk about. have you ever used an omen before?
Caldor Mansi	Posted - 2009.10.22 01:18:00 - [60] Originally by: abrasive soap have you ever used an omen before? I have a char that flies nothing else but Amarr with 32M SP... Omen is the only cruiser around that will run out of cap just by using guns and running a point. That means there is no cap regen when cycling MWD. You sir, have absolutely no idea about Amarr ships.
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2009.10.22 02:42:00 - [61] Sometimes I think the Myrm was intended to be a like a little carrier. Then I see the bandwidth the idea gets blown out of the water.
abrasive soap Bannable Offense.	Posted - 2009.10.22 04:58:00 - [62] Yeah it is pretty unimpressive in just about every aspect.
Mire Stoude The Undesirables	Posted - 2009.10.22 06:36:00 - [63] Edited by: Mire Stoude on 22/10/2009 06:41:13 Originally by: Araq Lacrimosa Maybe I'm going senile, but wasn't bandwidth introduced to nerf the myrm from fielding 5 heavies? a thing reserved for the Ishtar, domi and larger? [sarcasm] No, no, no, you have it all wrong! CCP introduced bandwidth as a boost to drone boats because they could allow drone boats to be able to carry replacements. It has also allowed CCP to make many beneficial tweaks to current specialized drone ships.[/sarcasm] I'd love the 125 bandwidth back, but I know we'll never see that again as the poster I quoted is correct. However, I don't think 100 bandwidth is too much to ask for, as the Navy Vexor can field that. I hate mixed drones. So I either use 3x heavies or 5x mediums. But I usually lose 50-100 DPS in doing so. There are many other issues with drones that need fixing and/or attention, so much so I've stopped using drone boats all-together (except the domi).
abrasive soap Shade. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.10.23 00:08:00 - [64] Originally by: Mire Stoude Edited by: Mire Stoude on 22/10/2009 06:41:13 Originally by: Araq Lacrimosa Maybe I'm going senile, but wasn't bandwidth introduced to nerf the myrm from fielding 5 heavies? a thing reserved for the Ishtar, domi and larger? [sarcasm] No, no, no, you have it all wrong! CCP introduced bandwidth as a boost to drone boats because they could allow drone boats to be able to carry replacements. It has also allowed CCP to make many beneficial tweaks to current specialized drone ships.[/sarcasm] I'd love the 125 bandwidth back, but I know we'll never see that again as the poster I quoted is correct. However, I don't think 100 bandwidth is too much to ask for, as the Navy Vexor can field that. I hate mixed drones. So I either use 3x heavies or 5x mediums. But I usually lose 50-100 DPS in doing so. There are many other issues with drones that need fixing and/or attention, so much so I've stopped using drone boats all-together (except the domi). I am sort of amazed that people still have no problem with the ishtar having 125 bandwith yet the myrmidon does not and does less damage despite being a larger ship class.
Kalia Masaer Rosa Castellum	Posted - 2009.10.23 01:24:00 - [65] You will note that most T2 HAC's will out perform your standard BC.
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.10.23 01:41:00 - [66] Originally by: Mire Stoude [sarcasm] No, no, no, you have it all wrong! CCP introduced bandwidth as a boost to drone boats because they could allow drone boats to be able to carry replacements. It has also allowed CCP to make many beneficial tweaks to current specialized drone ships.[/sarcasm] Ya know, replace 'drone boats' with 'gunboats' and you have pretty much a verbatim copy of the original, now deleted, devblog write-up on the subject. ----
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2009.10.23 01:48:00 - [67] Edited by: Etho Demerzel on 23/10/2009 01:49:01 Originally by: Kalia Masaer You will note that most T2 HAC's will out perform your standard BC. Nope. All Tier 2 battlecruisers outdamage the HACs of their specific races, escept for the Myrmidon. The Hurricane can have way more dps than the vaga or the muninn The Drake can have way more dps than the Eagle or the Cerberus. The harbinger can have way more dps than the Sacriledge or the zealot. HACs advantage is range and mobility, they should always lose to battlecruisers in the tank and gank, and that is how it works for all races but gallente, which ironically should be the damage race. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Kalia Masaer Rosa Castellum	Posted - 2009.10.23 02:45:00 - [68] You are correct sir, and with some experimenting I found you can actually have the myrm out damage the ishtar but the margin is slim compared to the other BC's though in general I would rather take a HAC into a fight against a BC than the otherway around.
abrasive soap Shade. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.10.23 03:59:00 - [69] Originally by: Kalia Masaer You are correct sir, and with some experimenting I found you can actually have the myrm out damage the ishtar but the margin is slim compared to the other BC's though in general I would rather take a HAC into a fight against a BC than the otherway around. If you use sentry drones and sentry damage augmentors the ishtar wins. If you use heavy drones the ishtar loses by like 10 dps.
abrasive soap Shade. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.10.23 22:38:00 - [70] bump so a dev reads this i swear, if ccp thinks a compromise is cool and it is changed to 100mb i will rage because that is stupid
Tylara duChelm	Posted - 2009.10.23 23:18:00 - [71] In its current iteration, the Myrm is just a Vexor with tank, and slower. It is disappointing for that reason. Also, most of the other BCs only require one damage-dealing skillset to function, where the Myrm requires drones and some medium turret. I'd add +10mbit drone bandwidth per level of BC. This way it requires even more skilling to reap the full benefits.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.10.24 00:30:00 - [72] Originally by: Tylara duChelm In its current iteration, the Myrm is just a Vexor with tank, and slower. You forgot 6 hardpoints instead of 4 (with enough powergrid to actually make use of them), more spare drones and a lot more slots. ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"
abrasive soap Shade. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.10.24 01:26:00 - [73] Originally by: Tarron Sarek Originally by: Tylara duChelm In its current iteration, the Myrm is just a Vexor with tank, and slower. You forgot 6 hardpoints instead of 4 (with enough powergrid to actually make use of them), more spare drones and a lot more slots. The vexor has 5 effective turrets. You get 50 more dronebay which is crap. The powergrid on the myrmidon is pretty much in line with the other bc's, it isn't special. What you gain is 1 turret from the vexor. Pretty good, right?
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.10.24 02:03:00 - [74] Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 24/10/2009 02:06:30 Originally by: abrasive soap The vexor has 5 effective turrets. Right.. which you effectively get by fitting.. what? Heavy Neutrons? 250mm Rails? 5 'effective' turrets is theorycrafting. Originally by: abrasive soap You get 50 more dronebay which is crap. Great argument there to prove why it is 'crap'. Originally by: abrasive soap The powergrid on the myrmidon is pretty much in line with the other bc's, it isn't special. I didn't compare the Myrmidon's PG to any other ship. I mentioned it along with the hardpoints. Perhaps you should read a bit more carefully. Originally by: abrasive soap What you gain is 1 turret from the vexor. Pretty good, right? Then go ahead and use a Vexor. It'sa great cruiser. If you don't manage to find a good use for the Myrmidon, you're probably better of that way. ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"
abrasive soap Shade. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.10.24 02:41:00 - [75] Originally by: Tarron Sarek Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 24/10/2009 02:08:40 Originally by: abrasive soap The vexor has 5 effective turrets. Right.. which you effectively get by fitting.. what? Heavy Neutrons? 250mm Rails? 5 'effective' turrets is merely theorycrafting. Originally by: abrasive soap You get 50 more dronebay which is crap. Great argument there to prove why it is 'crap'. Originally by: abrasive soap The powergrid on the myrmidon is pretty much in line with the other bc's, it isn't special. I didn't compare the Myrmidon's PG to any other ship. I mentioned it along with the hardpoints. Perhaps you should read a bit more carefully. Originally by: abrasive soap What you gain is 1 turret from the vexor. Pretty good, right? Then go ahead and use a Vexor. It'sa great cruiser. If you don't manage to find a good use for the Myrmidon, you're probably better off that way. 1. Try the SHIP BONUS 2. It is crap because you can carry one more set of mediums which totally matters. 3. Perhaps you should realize that battlecruisers by nature have more fitting capability than cruisers. This is like you comparing granny smiths to pomegranates and criticizing me for comparing granny smiths to galas. 4. The vexor is a great cruiser, and the myrmidon is a terrible battlecruiser. Hence why I use the harbinger.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.10.24 03:55:00 - [76] Originally by: abrasive soap 1. Try the SHIP BONUS 2. It is crap because you can carry one more set of mediums which totally matters. 3. Perhaps you should realize that battlecruisers by nature have more fitting capability than cruisers. This is like you comparing granny smiths to pomegranates and criticizing me for comparing granny smiths to galas. 4. The vexor is a great cruiser, and the myrmidon is a terrible battlecruiser. Hence why I use the harbinger. I get the slight impression that you're just here to create some ruckus and argue for the sake of arguing, because it seems you don't even try to understand. Ok, SHIP BONUS.. Please explain to me how a ship bonus in itself does anything without some actual modules fitted in those slots. And then please explain what kind of hybrid turrets you would fit in those 4 turret hardpoints of the Vexor to receive an effective total of 5 turrets, without the whole fitting being crap, or just a glass-cannon. Otherwise, as I said, it's unfounded theorycrafting. Apart from that I'm fully aware of the fact that battlecruisers have more fitting capability than cruisers. I'm perfectly familiar with ship classes and fittings. Strictly speaking, that was the point. You were disregarding that fact by saying the Myrmidon effectively gains 1 turret and nothing more compared to a Vexor. Which is rubbish. Everybody seems to expect a homogenous and comparable progression in tiers for all races' battlecruisers, with the tier 2 one being focused on gank, or at least providing more dps that the tier 1 BC. Well, it's just not the case. The Myrmidon is not focused on gank. The Hurricane is, as well as the Harbinger. But the Gallente gank BC is the tier 1 Brutix. It's the other way around. If you don't like it, deal with it. Like.. using a Harbinger instead. See, you already found the solution. ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"
abrasive soap Shade. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.10.24 04:43:00 - [77] Originally by: Tarron Sarek Originally by: abrasive soap 1. Try the SHIP BONUS 2. It is crap because you can carry one more set of mediums which totally matters. 3. Perhaps you should realize that battlecruisers by nature have more fitting capability than cruisers. This is like you comparing granny smiths to pomegranates and criticizing me for comparing granny smiths to galas. 4. The vexor is a great cruiser, and the myrmidon is a terrible battlecruiser. Hence why I use the harbinger. I get the slight impression that you're just here to create some ruckus and argue for the sake of arguing, because it seems you don't even try to understand. Ok, SHIP BONUS.. Please explain to me how a ship bonus in itself does anything without some actual modules fitted in those slots. And then please explain what kind of hybrid turrets you would fit in those 4 turret hardpoints of the Vexor to receive an effective total of 5 turrets, without the whole fitting being crap, or just a glass-cannon. Otherwise, as I said, it's unfounded theorycrafting. Apart from that I'm fully aware of the fact that battlecruisers have more fitting capability than cruisers. I'm perfectly familiar with ship classes and fittings. Strictly speaking, that was the point. You were disregarding that fact by saying the Myrmidon effectively gains 1 turret and nothing more compared to a Vexor. Which is rubbish. Everybody seems to expect a homogenous and comparable progression in tiers for all races' battlecruisers, with the tier 2 one being focused on gank, or at least providing more dps that the tier 1 BC. Well, it's just not the case. The Myrmidon is not focused on gank. The Hurricane is, as well as the Harbinger. But the Gallente gank BC is the tier 1 Brutix. It's the other way around. If you don't like it, deal with it. Like.. using a Harbinger instead. See, you already found the solution. does the whole basic concept of percentages confuse you or something it is really quite simple- the vexor has 4 turrets the vexor has a 5% per level (25%) hybrid damage bonus 4x125%=5 the myrmidon has 6 turrets the myrmidon has no bonus to hybrid damage 6x100%=6 i am not talking about whether or not you can fit neutrons on either or whatever you are talking about you are somewhat right in your last part though the myrmidon isn't focused on gank, not because it is focused on tanking or something, but rather it just isn't focused claiming the brutix is focused on gank is a misnomer because the brutix has a tanking bonus, despite it being used as a suicide gank ship
abrasive soap Shade. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2009.10.25 02:36:00 - [78] bump so devs read this

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