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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.11.07 00:01:00 -
[1]
As per the recent blog, it appears to be a widely held view that none of the proposed resource upgrades will have anything like the power of a single level 4 agent, and that people will be drawn towards increased highsec mission running to support the new maintenance bills. In particular, it is difficult to see how any one system could support the activities of 100-150 people, which was apparently CCP's stated goal.
Thus, for systems with suitable upgrades anchored, I propose unlocking NPC agents (at pre-existing outposts) as the system's military index increases, starting with level 1 and eventually reaching level 5 as more missions are completed.
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34.4:1 mineral compression
ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2009.11.07 02:06:00 -
[2]
I can support this, if CCP would introduce a way for people to actually run these agents in the space they hold.
Chances are, if you've been living in 0.0, the local pirate agents wont like you very much 
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Deldrac
Ultrapolite Socialites
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.07 04:52:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Pohbis
I can support this, if CCP would introduce a way for people to actually run these agents in the space they hold.
Chances are, if you've been living in 0.0, the local pirate agents wont like you very much
Shouldn't be difficult, make the agents employees of the sov holder, and spawn mission encounters in systems with that sov.
CCP have said that creating agents in the first place is 'hard'tm, but as they've made clear doing anything useful is also out of the question, and as they are desperate to make missions the only viable source of individual isk in the game, they are left with this as their only choice.
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Korodan
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.07 04:53:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Korodan on 07/11/2009 04:54:10
I'd support a similar idea - instead of having you run missions for the local pirates import agents from pirate factions hostile to them.
As an example: lets say you were constantly butchering Blood Raider rats in belts, eventually this brings Angel Cartel and Serpentis agents to your outposts (the factions Blood Raiders mostly send you against in missions) to subvert their influence, which allows you to run missions for them in your space. This allows and rewards people to continue ratting (the more you rat the bigger and better the agents get) while making mission running a viable option.
I have no idea how this would work for drone space.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.11.07 07:54:00 -
[5]
First option that comes to mind - have a Military-based upgrade, where if you have Military X, you can hire level X agents at your outpost. You have a choice of 2-3 factions, based on region, and choice in agent type. Agents will cost money for upkeep, and a lot of money at higher levels(L4-L5 should be measured in billions a month). No cap on agents, but each one costs individually - if you want to pay triple the cash for 3 L4 combat agents, so you can have mission selection, go for it.
This doesn't need to be the system used, of course. Anything that allows big population densities(100+ online in a system, not fighting) is fine by me, and I don't much care if it's by upgrading a system to having a couple L4 agents or by having 60 belts, with an effective truesec of -2, and quadruple faction/officer rat spawn rates. But it needs to be able to support population densities at least within hailing distance of highsec for any of the other stuff to work sensibly. I'm fine with cynojammers costing an arm and a leg, but the systems are going to need to be able to earn those arms and legs reasonably. I'm no 0.0 expert, but I don't see how that is supposed to be the case in the current proposal.
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Kronossan
Tread Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.07 08:20:00 -
[6]
I believe they talked about this or answered a short question regarding this on fanfest, could be wrong though.
Good idea anyway
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Jareck Hunter
Academy of Decadence
United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.07 09:40:00 -
[7]
Nothing more to say.
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Sorry for my bad english^^
Join public Channel "Decadence" or visit www.eve-decadence.de |
Ivan Zhuk
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Posted - 2009.11.07 09:50:00 -
[8]
atleast make somethin that may benefit holders of space even though small their members will actually use the agents. I would also go so far as to say a 1% tax on all mission rewards go to holder alliance. But atleast these agents would be useful =)
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Venkul Mul
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Posted - 2009.11.07 10:25:00 -
[9]
Ok, the cries from PvPers about a upgrade that will require people to do PvE would be fun.
Even more when they will be required to protect them "for the good of the alliance". 
/supported
Seriously, it is a good option, but from my experience in 0.0 most PvPers will simply ate on first sight those using the agents in 0.0.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.11.07 11:00:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Ok, the cries from PvPers about a upgrade that will require people to do PvE would be fun.
Even more when they will be required to protect them "for the good of the alliance".
/supported
Seriously, it is a good option, but from my experience in 0.0 most PvPers will simply ate on first sight those using the agents in 0.0.
They won't eat their own and might tolerate others too, if some of their income gets taxed to the wallet of the sov holder. Something that might happen with the implementation of contracts between corps and alliances. Even in the worst case they might be treated more like cattle. They would be tolerated and protected, since the income they provide allows PvP people to focus on other things.
Even though I'm not a fan of missions, they are so convenient and lucrative, that for a combat oriented character it is a very good option to have even if you have other income sources. Not to mention, taht PvP doesn't just happen and you don't always have the time or inclination for it, so you need other activities to keep people from getting bored. Making some decent money while doing it certainly wouldn't hurt either.
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Florestan Bronstein
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Posted - 2009.11.07 11:15:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 07/11/2009 11:15:34
/signed
I support this proposal, as it would create additional taxable income for alliances and reduce the need for high-sec alts.
However, I would love to hear some thoughts on how this idea would work out with regards to low-sec mission hubs and NPC 0.0.
IMHO low-sec, NPC 0.0 and 0.0 with sov should retain (or get?) clearly separated roles in the game and this proposal would eliminate one of the central differences between them...
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Cadde
221st Century Warfare
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Posted - 2009.11.07 11:49:00 -
[12]
I'll support the idea based on the principle but the fact is CCP will take many detours just to avoid this because their current system is heavily reliant upon there being real stations in the area. However, i will not go into further details about this. Instead let me just say, CCP shrug as soon as someone mentions it.
Some day soonÖ we might see this happen but only if there is enough room for them to squeeze it in side by side with another "simple" feature.
In reality (AFAIK), there is nothing simple about it!
My opinions belong to me, you can't have them!
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.11.07 15:48:00 -
[13]
A few more thoughts:
This would be more of a constellation-wide upgrade, as missions often involve moving around a bit. It would make sense for agents only to appear once sov has been held across an entire constellation for a considerable length of time, so that people are not sent out behind enemy lines.
It would also involve coming up with a means of dynamically generating agents, which are currently static, and avoiding complications arising from agents disappearing or being downgraded after reduced activity (i.e. it would need to happen slowly enough for people to have time for their missions to be completed or to expire naturally).
Courier missions would be out of the question, as there's no guarantee that people running them would have the required docking rights. Mining & market-based missions would make a decent substitute.
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34.4:1 mineral compression
ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Killljoy
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:06:00 -
[14]
Yeah voting for the win
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:16:00 -
[15]
No
If you want agents go to npc space. Or go to empire.
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Myxx Deux
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.07 17:25:00 -
[16]
/supported. This is one of the upgrades that SHOULD be done. And done quickly.
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Marmios
Elite Aeronautic Developer Syndicate
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.07 18:05:00 -
[17]
totally supporting this. Plz dont tell us that it wont work. you already have agents in space. What the DB issue with just getting some more into 0.0?
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Silvermane Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.11.07 19:00:00 -
[18]
Agents are the only "major" income source that is taxable by corporations in this game that allow population scaling; if they want diffuse active sources of income (as stated by one devblog), this is the main goal they should strive for.
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Ryan Powers
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.07 19:17:00 -
[19]
do it.
do it.
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Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
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Posted - 2009.11.07 19:46:00 -
[20]
Id like 0.0 as a place where you can attract neutral agents to your outposts who can give you unique ships like the Fury, Styx, Ixion, Swordspine, Medusa etc.
I don't think the mechanic should rely on upgrades though and alliances should be able to take away agents from one another and/or damage outposts to stop the agent missions temporarily/permeantely.
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Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation
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Posted - 2009.11.07 20:14:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Joshua Foiritain on 07/11/2009 20:14:26
If CCP allow me to run level 4 missions from alliance outposts id actually move back to 0.0 again.
However, rather then locking people out by automatically assigning this or that faction or by allowing an alliance to pick a single faction to have agents from they should let players communicate with their existing agents from inside the outposts, the level of agent you can talk to would depend on the infrastructure level.
This will allow all alliance members to move back to 0.0 to run missions there without adding new problems related to everyone's standings, it allows for a nearly unlimited number of alliance members to generate isk per star system owned, this increases activity in 0.0 allowing for more PVP.
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.07 23:25:00 -
[22]
So were just giving up and admitting null sec corps= carebears?
Your stuff iz mine through actions |
Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
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Posted - 2009.11.08 00:07:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Future Mutant
So were just giving up and admitting null sec corps= carebears?
Nope, just saying there should be a way to maintain a good income for the individual pilot, without the need for a Highsec carebear alt.
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Lusulpher
Blackwater Syndicate
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.11.08 01:19:00 -
[24]
Originally by: "Aypse"
Originally by: "Frug"
Originally by: "Doomed Predator"
I'm not saying it's destroying EVE ffs. I'm saying that when they introduced level 4 missions they also wanted an ''exodus'' into 0.0 . And that really worked well. So well, that now every new feature that involves making isk is immediately compared to ****ing lvl 4 missions.
Oh. Yeah that's true.
So true.
Level 4s should be good isk for solo PVEing, but they are currently way too close to the top of the list of similar PVE activities. The payoff for highsec level 4s should be roughly in the middle of isk-making solo PVE ****.
It should be something like:
WHing >>> 0.0 exploration > 0.0 rating > 0.0 mining > lowsec 4s > lowsec 3s > highsec level 4s > highsec exploration > highsec 3s >highsec mining > 2s >1s
The basic idea is more risk = more reward. Its fairly obvious that the payout for level 4s will never be nerfed significantly due to player blowback. So nerf them a little, but raise the more risky activities so that they pay more than level 4s.
From the wise vaults of SHC.
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Galen Darksmith
Celestial Janissaries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.08 04:40:00 -
[25]
To quote Joshua back on SHC: http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?p=1031922#1031922
"Allow people who are docked in outposts with the proper system upgrades to talk to their normal agents. IE: People in Delve can talk to their Caldari navy agents and get missions in delve;
- this allows 0.0 people to move back to their alliance space
- the only limit on players making money per system is lag
- alliances have more people in their space to help defend stuff
- the enemy has more targets to try and kill
- plus theres a small motivation for empire people to move to 0.0 as they can still use their normal agents and theyd get a ton more LP in -1 0.0 systems then they do in empire.
- also since the people who dont want to go to empire can then run missions in 0.0 corps would make more on corp taxes."
Essentially, allow an upgrade for outposts: Comms Relay tower. Has 5 levels, each level allows agents of the corresponding level to be contacted from afar, so a level 2 tower lets you run level 2 missions and below, level 5 tower lets you run all missions. |
Acrid Acid
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Posted - 2009.11.08 15:37:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Acrid Acid on 08/11/2009 15:36:46
Get new programmers CCP! Your programmer obviously sucks, just look at the mail box.
/Support
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Bunyip
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.11.08 21:04:00 -
[27]
Sounds reasonable. Supported.
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Fille Balle
Ballbreakers R us
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Posted - 2009.11.08 23:38:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Galen Darksmith
Essentially, allow an upgrade for outposts: Comms Relay tower. Has 5 levels, each level allows agents of the corresponding level to be contacted from afar, so a level 2 tower lets you run level 2 missions and below, level 5 tower lets you run all missions.
That's sounds... not only better, but also easier. This would probably solve the problem of income in 0.0 all together.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.11.09 00:44:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Galen Darksmith
To quote Joshua back on SHC: http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/viewtopic.php?p=1031922#1031922
"Allow people who are docked in outposts with the proper system upgrades to talk to their normal agents. IE: People in Delve can talk to their Caldari navy agents and get missions in delve;
- this allows 0.0 people to move back to their alliance space
- the only limit on players making money per system is lag
- alliances have more people in their space to help defend stuff
- the enemy has more targets to try and kill
- plus theres a small motivation for empire people to move to 0.0 as they can still use their normal agents and theyd get a ton more LP in -1 0.0 systems then they do in empire.
- also since the people who dont want to go to empire can then run missions in 0.0 corps would make more on corp taxes."
Essentially, allow an upgrade for outposts: Comms Relay tower. Has 5 levels, each level allows agents of the corresponding level to be contacted from afar, so a level 2 tower lets you run level 2 missions and below, level 5 tower lets you run all missions.
Dude, I think you just won Post of the Year. This is the best idea for fixing 0.0 I've ever seen, no word of a lie. I'm going to steal this idea and flog it shamelessly now.
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Debeus
Princeps Corp
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.09 22:58:00 -
[30]
Yes of course. The upgrade could simply spawn the agents in space, like they are in some null sec systems, in gates or at some system visible spot.
Perhaps each level of upgrade would provide the corresponding level of agent, from 1 to 5.
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