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Bug with FLAG status + trouble raising military index + test request..

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 13 post(s)

CCP Sisyphus	Posted - 2009.11.14 17:34:00 - [31] Originally by: Cheekything Curious but how are we meant to get these indexes when most systems have very few belts. More anoms, higher spawn rates? This is of course without the upgrades from the sov. Do CCP have plans to increase the belts ingame? The current plan is that to get to the first level, its relatively easy, but then it gets progresively harder for the following levels. Like how lvl 1 skill takes minutes, but lvl 5 takes weeks. Lvl 1 index will need a few people, level 5 will take dozens

Soleil Fournier AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.11.14 18:11:00 - [32] Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 14/11/2009 18:11:58 I really like the idea of making people work the system to improve it. But...dozens of people take weeks to get level 5... My only concern about this change is that you're going to turn a positive (making money, getting a group and having fun making money) into a negative (grind, slaves, grind! No, don't go have fun elsewhere or we'll lose level 5...go grind!) Thoughts?
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2009.11.14 18:29:00 - [33] Edited by: Destination SkillQueue on 14/11/2009 18:29:43 Originally by: Soleil Fournier Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 14/11/2009 18:11:58 I really like the idea of making people work the system to improve it. But...dozens of people take weeks to get level 5... My only concern about this change is that you're going to turn a positive (making money, getting a group and having fun making money) into a negative (grind, slaves, grind! No, don't go have fun elsewhere or we'll lose level 5...go grind!) Thoughts? Make the system so, that it is very slow to deteriorate or even has a relatively short period where it remains where it is before even starting to decline. It should mainly be a reward to strive for and only deteriorate, if it really isn't used. Adding grinds to a game is always bad and maintaining an upgrade level should not become a second job. The few good things about 0.0 today is the lack of restrictions on combat and little boring grinding. I would like to add more positive things to 0.0 not remove the few things going for it.

CCP Sisyphus	Posted - 2009.11.14 18:51:00 - [34] Originally by: Soleil Fournier Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 14/11/2009 18:11:58 I really like the idea of making people work the system to improve it. But...dozens of people take weeks to get level 5... Gah! No! Dont take what i said out of context.. I was making a comparison - In eve its easy to get little bonus, very difficult/time consuming to get the big bonuses. With Skills (ie, those little books you plug into yur character's head) : level 1 takes a few minutes : level 5 can take a few weeks. Now, with the introduction of System Indices. : level 1 will take a couple of people working together. : level 5 will take dozens of people working together. Of course, if you go into an un-upgraded system with dozens of people at once, they will have little to do as there is only enough "work" to keep a couple of people occupied. The more upgrades you put in the more stuff there will be for people to interact with.

Jarnis McPieksu Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.14 18:52:00 - [35] Even big effort to get to high levels is not a huge deal as long as the decay is very very slow. However, if we need to have shifts around the clock to keep the thing from decaying between prime times, that would be epic fail. Same if there is a major decay when there is one night of CTAs and nobody happens to rat for a day. But I fully expect CCP to fail in tuning it well before launch, expecting the system to be broken until a post-launch patch. That way I won't be disappointed, and might even get a pleasant suprise!

CCP Sisyphus	Posted - 2009.11.14 18:55:00 - [36] Originally by: Soleil Fournier The few good things about 0.0 today is the lack of restrictions on combat and little boring grinding. I would like to add more positive things to 0.0 not remove the few things going for it. If you dont want to improve the system, there is nothing forcing you to. You are not getting anything less for not upgrading a system. If you want to go into enemy territory and shoot them, then you still can (you just cant claim their sovereignty without bringing blockade units).

Pointfive	Posted - 2009.11.14 19:18:00 - [37] Dozens of people seems a bit unreasonable. So for level 3 or 4 you 6-8 anomalies. And then maybe 1 or 2 people ratting belts, so maybe 10 people. Thats assuming the anomamlies are even profitable enough to attract anyone. What are these extra dozen + people supposed to be doing?
Mrs Snowman	Posted - 2009.11.14 19:18:00 - [38] I really hope that people arnt complaining about "having to grind" Seriously, all these 0.0 systems are constantly being ratted, just purly for the bounties! So it will come in time anyway, you dont really have to do anything more than what everyone is already doing in 0.0 day after day, months after month. Dozens of people taking a few weeks to get level 5 seems hideously low to me and makes me sick to think that someone is complaining about that.
Mrs Snowman	Posted - 2009.11.14 19:42:00 - [39] Originally by: Pointfive Dozens of people seems a bit unreasonable. how the hell is it unreasonable? have you seen how many people alliances have in 0.0?.. hundreds of people! Ratting and mining constantly everyday... what you think they are gona suddenly stop because now they have to do it top upgrade?.... they'll do it anyway! completly regardless of the index!
Soleil Fournier AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2009.11.14 20:41:00 - [40] Thanks for the feedback :)

Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.14 21:23:00 - [41] Originally by: Mrs Snowman Originally by: Pointfive Dozens of people seems a bit unreasonable. how the hell is it unreasonable? have you seen how many people alliances have in 0.0?.. hundreds of people! Ratting and mining constantly everyday... what you think they are gona suddenly stop because now they have to do it top upgrade?.... they'll do it anyway! completly regardless of the index! Normally you only get a few players ratting at the same time. About 1 every 5 belts in a crowded system. Add maybe 1 player running the anomalies. So it will not be so easy to increase a system. Every level of the anomaly upgrade would add 2 ever spawning anomaly, so 2 more pilots for each level. The DED upgrade give a increased chance, but not a guarantee (unless I am wrong) so another 2-3 player as an average. That make something like 14 players in a system with a small number of belts. So the prerequisites must be balanced with a reasonable level of activity. If the max a given system can support ratting is 14 players maintenance should not require more that 1/3 of that doing it around the clock. Upgrading should not require more than half of the max number of ratters running the system around the clock, so upgrading from the 4th level to the 5th should not require more than 5-6 players running the system.
SXYGeeK Gallente do you Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.11.14 21:53:00 - [42] Originally by: CCP Sisyphus Originally by: SXYGeeK After the patch today I gave it another shot. 3 ships ratting as fast as spawns would come and doing 2 anomolies. close to 300 kills. no movement on the military index. howdy. Yes, we looked at this, and have given a boost to generated points when you havn't reached lvl1 yet. But you say you didn't get any movement after the patch - can you give me a system name and who were the characters involved - I'd like to check the lgos and see if we can tweak the numbers a little. Thanks for visiting my thread Sisyphus !!! I am working in the system X5-UME in Fade SXyGeeK and castryon merk where the ones I used most recently, there where others ratting in here before the patch but I'm guessing your looking for recent data. I'm headed on to play with it some more today. generate you some more logs :) -We So SeXy
SXYGeeK Gallente do you Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.11.14 22:01:00 - [43] no anomalies or sigs today and only 5 belts, so i might not get too many kills today. :(, characters with me today SXyGeeK, sxyklrsunfish, Jaxy Awlra, DoYourBest Bear -We So SeXy
SXYGeeK Gallente do you Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.11.14 22:59:00 - [44] Edited by: SXYGeeK on 14/11/2009 22:59:43 second belt i had was a faction BS, cool. the spawn rate is very low, only 5 belts, so i'm getting 1 spawn every 10 minutes or so :( a couple interesting things. I had a wierd spawn, a singe BC (Serpentis captain sentry) and a single frigate (guardian agent) never seen a rat named like that, when i got him into structure, he dropped off my targeting and warped away, never to be seen again... i thought it was just a little wierd, then it happened again, the frigate was named (guardian spy) this time. only when i got him into structure he MWD'd off, strait out of grid. never had rats like this, though they are interesting, I'll prep a tackler for if i see them again. anyways, after a just starting to warm up i checked on the hub and found the military index (was showing nothing with a green up arrow when i started) is now showing nothing with a red down arrow ... :( apparently i'm getting no where fast... hope its a bug in the silly colored arrow. I'm keeping at it for a bit, let you know what else comes up... -We So SeXy
Pointfive	Posted - 2009.11.14 23:35:00 - [45] Originally by: Mrs Snowman Originally by: Pointfive Dozens of people seems a bit unreasonable. how the hell is it unreasonable? have you seen how many people alliances have in 0.0?.. hundreds of people! Ratting and mining constantly everyday... what you think they are gona suddenly stop because now they have to do it top upgrade?.... they'll do it anyway! completly regardless of the index! Have you been to any of those systems? You see 1, maybe 2 people max in them doing those things. dozens implies 24 people minimum. So we are supposed to cram 22 people into systems where having 3 before would kill the amount of money you could make. 4 people could pretty easily keep all belts clear. Im not sure what the other 20 are going to be doing, and with the current decay rates, how you will keep 24 people in a system permanently. Even with max upgrades that adds 10 static anomalies. So now you have 12 people in a max upgraded system. Thats a dozen with max upgrade, not dozens.
ollobrains 5th Front enterprises Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2009.11.15 00:30:00 - [46] Hello i shall come pay a visit on SISI. Are there stations or outposts nearby within which we can get ships etc id like to help for research purposes on this upgrading of youre system
SXYGeeK Gallente do you Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.11.15 00:31:00 - [47] 5 characters on 5 belts for over 2 hours now. the system isn't that great so the BS spawns i'm getting are poor single or double BS. but i am chaining the BS's probably 10-15 BS an hour is all this system is spawning at this rate. the hub still shows no measurable progress and the red down arrow is still showing. If there is no measurable progress after several hours of saturating a system with raters there seems to be something wrong. I don't have a problem with making it difficult to upgrade, but at least show some measurable impact on the system, I feel like i'm doing nothing right now, indeed i think i am. -We So SeXy
SXYGeeK Gallente do you Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.11.15 00:40:00 - [48] Originally by: ollobrains Hello i shall come pay a visit on SISI. Are there stations or outposts nearby within which we can get ships etc id like to help for research purposes on this upgrading of you're system the Red Vs Blu stations are a few jumps away. L-C307 being the closest seeded station. -We So SeXy
SXYGeeK Gallente do you Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.11.15 02:13:00 - [49] Edited by: SXYGeeK on 15/11/2009 02:16:31 4 hours ratting, 100+ kills, majority of those where battleship rats. hub still shows no progress and a red down arrow. I can only assume that since i had an anomaly in system yesterday and ran it a couple times that I am still working to make up what ever immeasurable index that i had build yesterday that was lost overnight, and since there is no anomaly today I am simply unable to kill enough belt rats to match what i killed yesterday, hence a net decrease in index over the last day (what the arrow seems to indicate) The decay rate seems to high (losing all progress from a day overnight) and the index rate for rating seems far far too low, especially when working in smaller systems. @CCP Sisyphus! I hope the 4 hours of ratting data will help, let me know if I can be of any further assistance. characters with me today SXyGeeK, sxyklrsunfish, Jaxy Awlra, DoYourBest Bear, Castryon Merk -We So SeXy
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.15 04:46:00 - [50] im antipating that ccp will make quite a few changes on this once it goes live still good luck to those testing im assumng ccp staff have done this testing internalling anyway Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00

Syberbolt8 Gallente Gen Tec Freedom of Elbas	Posted - 2009.11.15 06:07:00 - [51] Originally by: CCP Sisyphus Originally by: Soleil Fournier The few good things about 0.0 today is the lack of restrictions on combat and little boring grinding. I would like to add more positive things to 0.0 not remove the few things going for it. If you dont want to improve the system, there is nothing forcing you to. You are not getting anything less for not upgrading a system. If you want to go into enemy territory and shoot them, then you still can (you just cant claim their sovereignty without bringing blockade units). The thing I'm worried about is systems with 1 or 2 belts and only 1 spawn site in them, with poor quality rats, systems like these wont support even 1 player full time, will these still be able to get upgraded? Support the DEAD HORSE POS's
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.15 06:30:00 - [52] Yes systems with only 1 or 2 belts are an issue unless u get stage 1 update and have a anamoly and sig site clearing team working ( rat kills would count there to) in those sites. Probably moreso than the odd belt spawn ( mroe waves in amols) and im guessing most alliances will have level 3 upgrades, the other coming future angle tho is comets, planetary ring mining and system wide asteroid fields ( removal of fixed roids altogether and moving to having 3-4 grav sites in system) Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2009.11.15 08:38:00 - [53] Edited by: Gnulpie on 15/11/2009 08:40:05 Originally by: CCP Sisyphus Originally by: Soleil Fournier Edited by: Soleil Fournier on 14/11/2009 18:11:58 I really like the idea of making people work the system to improve it. But...dozens of people take weeks to get level 5... Gah! No! Dont take what i said out of context.. I was making a comparison - In eve its easy to get little bonus, very difficult/time consuming to get the big bonuses. With Skills (ie, those little books you plug into yur character's head) : level 1 takes a few minutes : level 5 can take a few weeks. Now, with the introduction of System Indices. : level 1 will take a couple of people working together. : level 5 will take dozens of people working together. Of course, if you go into an un-upgraded system with dozens of people at once, they will have little to do as there is only enough "work" to keep a couple of people occupied. The more upgrades you put in the more stuff there will be for people to interact with. If the rewards for the massive grinding is worth it, sure, why not? Makes sense that dozen of people need to be busy for weeks! That's perfectly fine I think. No one NEEDS to cram that many people into a system. But if someone WANTS to do that, then the reward should be pretty good also. Also ... the slow degrading of the index ... Will it be linear or non-linear? Will the system index only slowly degrade in the beginning and degrading faster if you are longer away (giving you a little time for being away, defence etc.), or will it degrade all at the same speed regardless if you were not busy for 1 hour or for 1 week?
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.15 08:48:00 - [54] linear or non linear is an important point. Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Kanatta Jing	Posted - 2009.11.15 09:52:00 - [55] SXYGeeK, ya, I think we can come to several conclusions. 1, Your in crappy space. 2, Your in crappier space then the space the index was calibrated for. 3, The index has to be a little less demanding then it is in SiSi right now.
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.15 14:09:00 - [56] point 3 i expect ccp to put a harder than thought or current version in and then crunch the numbers after a few weeks and then tweak in coming patchs Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Cheekything Gallente Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2009.11.15 14:36:00 - [57] Originally by: Kanatta Jing SXYGeeK, ya, I think we can come to several conclusions. 1, Your in crappy space. 2, Your in crappier space then the space the index was calibrated for. 3, The index has to be a little less demanding then it is in SiSi right now. Well it'd be pointless to test in the best system in eve that leads to bias results so an average joe system will give the better results to make sure that the system in place works for everyone. Eve Ideas Dom Loves, Hates & Wants
WarlockX Amarr Free Trade Corp	Posted - 2009.11.15 16:01:00 - [58] I agree with the decay being slower. It should take a week of inactivity to lose your progress. Certainly not over night. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
SXYGeeK Gallente do you Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.11.15 17:51:00 - [59] Originally by: Cheekything Originally by: Kanatta Jing SXYGeeK, ya, I think we can come to several conclusions. 1, Your in crappy space. 2, Your in crappier space then the space the index was calibrated for. 3, The index has to be a little less demanding then it is in SiSi right now. Well it'd be pointless to test in the best system in eve that leads to bias results so an average joe system will give the better results to make sure that the system in place works for everyone. This was my intention with selecting the system I did. Most space does not have dozens of belts, in fact the average is likely in the single digits. (5-9 I'd guess) However, I am in fairly nice true sec space, Crokite and 1.5 M bs spawns, so you can't call this crappy by current standards. -We So SeXy
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2009.11.15 22:52:00 - [60] Originally by: SXYGeeK ... this is a solid days work with 6 combat ships... Can you clarify what you mean by a day? Were you ratting for an entire 23 hour period? How many hours of the day did the system lie fallow? [Aussie players: join channel ANZAC]



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