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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Corian Teranos
Critical Mass Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.21 18:54:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Becq Starforged SOLUTION Very simply, the timers that control station docking and gate jumping after aggression should be modified as follows:
* So long as a ship does not commit an aggressive act (weapons, drones, EW, remote repair of a combatant, etc), no timer applies to docking or gate use (beyond the usual session change limits). * If a ship acts in an aggressive manner, that ship gains the usual aggression flag, and the station/gate timer is set to one minute. Until the timer runs out, the ship cannot dock or use gates. * Once flagged, any hostile act whether it's by the ship in question or against it will reset the station/gate timer to the full one minute.
make an exemption for jamming and ecm bursts as these are primarily defensive measures used to stop someone from scrambling and do not deal any direct damage.
:Its all fun and games untill your logistics guy tries passive tanking his raven: |
Doomed Predator
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.21 19:45:00 -
[122]
Clear,simple and probably easy to implement. The 'Fendahlian Collective' strikes again |
Kombat PL
Beach Boys Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 21:00:00 -
[123]
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James Grand
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.21 21:04:00 -
[124]
Simple, elegant solution. Not sure if it should really apply to gates as well though.
-------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed in my posts are entirely my own. |
FraXy
0utbreak
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Posted - 2009.11.21 21:13:00 -
[125]
Edited by: FraXy on 21/11/2009 21:14:48 Very simply, the timers that control station docking and gate jumping after aggression should be modified as follows: * So long as a ship does not commit an aggressive act (weapons, drones, EW, remote repair of a combatant, etc), no timer applies to docking or gate use (beyond the usual session change limits). * If a ship acts in an aggressive manner, that ship gains the usual aggression flag, and the station/gate timer is set to one minute. Until the timer runs out, the ship cannot dock or use gates. * Once flagged, any hostile act whether it's by the ship in question or against it will reset the station/gate timer to the full one minute.
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On one side I hate docking games like most of Eve, but the gatecamp engager in me is screaming.
Jumping into chokepoints, engaging and killing X number of campers before de-aggressing and jumping out when the reinforcement blob arrives.
I have a ship capable of tanking 3 dreads worth of DPS. Jump into the typical gatecamp of 1 tackler, 2 Drakes and ofc the mandatory Falcon. End up sitting on the gate permajammed for 25 minutes while they bring in enough reinforcement to take me down.
Unable to get a lock due to Falcon. Unable to outrun the tackler. And the refreshing 1 minute timer that will not run down with the new mechanic. A less mobile sitting duck have not been seen in New Eden.
For station games i think the mechanic would work fairly well since you can't dock in the station and boobytrap the enemy pilot's hangar.
For gates i do not think the idea is well enough thought out as there is a way to lock down the hostile by 1 ship holding aggro and follow the jump.
Then again gatecampers would benefit from this as well, so..
Meh why not. Idea supported.
One man's junk is FraXy's choice of weapon to kill you with. |
SupaKudoRio
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Posted - 2009.11.21 21:22:00 -
[126]
Edited by: SupaKudoRio on 21/11/2009 21:23:44 ^ Bring in your own friends?
On another note, how do you like your pods in the morning? |
Spyra Gryra
Liberate te ex inferis
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Posted - 2009.11.21 22:32:00 -
[127]
Supported
My corp and alliance are the very best pvpers in the entire history of video games. |
Carai an'Caldazar
Amarr Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.22 02:38:00 -
[128]
Originally by: FraXy Edited by: FraXy on 21/11/2009 21:14:48 Very simply, the timers that control station docking and gate jumping after aggression should be modified as follows: * So long as a ship does not commit an aggressive act (weapons, drones, EW, remote repair of a combatant, etc), no timer applies to docking or gate use (beyond the usual session change limits). * If a ship acts in an aggressive manner, that ship gains the usual aggression flag, and the station/gate timer is set to one minute. Until the timer runs out, the ship cannot dock or use gates. * Once flagged, any hostile act whether it's by the ship in question or against it will reset the station/gate timer to the full one minute.
---------
On one side I hate docking games like most of Eve, but the gatecamp engager in me is screaming.
Jumping into chokepoints, engaging and killing X number of campers before de-aggressing and jumping out when the reinforcement blob arrives.
I have a ship capable of tanking 3 dreads worth of DPS. Jump into the typical gatecamp of 1 tackler, 2 Drakes and ofc the mandatory Falcon. End up sitting on the gate permajammed for 25 minutes while they bring in enough reinforcement to take me down.
Unable to get a lock due to Falcon. Unable to outrun the tackler. And the refreshing 1 minute timer that will not run down with the new mechanic. A less mobile sitting duck have not been seen in New Eden.
For station games i think the mechanic would work fairly well since you can't dock in the station and boobytrap the enemy pilot's hangar.
For gates i do not think the idea is well enough thought out as there is a way to lock down the hostile by 1 ship holding aggro and follow the jump.
Then again gatecampers would benefit from this as well, so..
Meh why not. Idea supported.
I agree with much of above as my frame of reference appears very similar to the quoted poster... but my take on the situation...
Simple response to this would be... if you were in deep space and this was occurring, would the situation be acceptable by all parties (that is, deemed fair based on gaming mechanics)? I do not see why gates and stations should be safe havens for many, acting as a saving grace and tactical object in many situations.
The scenario far more relevant to me is flying a Guardian in an RR-BS gang using the gate as my de-aggressor when too much firepower is on me, in which I decloak and burn back to the gate, come back in, and get reps before the enemy can re-primary me. If I'm stuck on this side of the gate, I'm forced to use "non-session changing" game mechanics to find a way to survive or escape during a fight, rather than rely on get-out-of-fight-free methods due to no aggro from repping.
(already supported above but pro-fix) |
Dyphorus
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Posted - 2009.11.22 06:27:00 -
[129]
Logging in just to give 100% support to this idea!!!
Simple fix, long overdue.
Keep up the good work OP.
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Nuuskur
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.22 09:36:00 -
[130]
Agreed, this is imho, as perfect a solution as it can be.
Even the "but a player can be kept there indefinetly" issue is imho a non-issue. Just don't engage stuff you cannot kill. If you get caught in such a way then you seriously deserve it.
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Arakidias
The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.22 09:37:00 -
[131]
Gets my vote. C'mon CCP, even PIE and CVA is supporting a UK proposal :D
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2009.11.22 10:16:00 -
[132]
No.
It does NOT solve the problem of boring gameplay (ie. station camps) and benefits an aggressor far more than his victim/client.
Counter Solution: - Disallow use of any offensive module/drone within docking range of station. - Make RR count as full PvP aggro (ie. an offensive module). - Disallow static/anchored bubbles covering docking ports.
What this does: - Prevents the lagtastic constant skirmishes outside Empire hub stations. - Prevents RR gayness at docking ports. - Prevents RR gayness jumping gates when targeted. - Removes neutral RR gayness in high-sec/low-sec. - Removes permanent camps of stations. Still possible but you have to risk at least tackling ships. - Gives 0.0 station defenders ability to get out and engage in 'proper' combat, provided they can clear the docking tackle.
Meets your goal and solves a whole heap of issues associated with it on top.
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Lusulpher
Blackwater Syndicate Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.11.22 10:26:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Corian Teranos
Originally by: Becq Starforged SOLUTION Very simply, the timers that control station docking and gate jumping after aggression should be modified as follows:
* So long as a ship does not commit an aggressive act (weapons, drones, EW, remote repair of a combatant, etc), no timer applies to docking or gate use (beyond the usual session change limits). * If a ship acts in an aggressive manner, that ship gains the usual aggression flag, and the station/gate timer is set to one minute. Until the timer runs out, the ship cannot dock or use gates. * Once flagged, any hostile act whether it's by the ship in question or against it will reset the station/gate timer to the full one minute.
make an exemption for jamming and ecm bursts as these are primarily defensive measures used to stop someone from scrambling and do not deal any direct damage.
That might work. ECM ship might not be scramming, but a buddy might be. I'm all for an ECM boost though.
And OP, I was in awe of your posting. 7 |
Peryner
University of Caille
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Posted - 2009.11.22 11:10:00 -
[134]
Mothermoon says: do this now, seriously.
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George Mccloud
Helljumpers
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Posted - 2009.11.22 11:31:00 -
[135]
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App Olonur
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Posted - 2009.11.22 11:33:00 -
[136]
Full support. I also liked the idea of timers being based on standing, but if that slows down implementation, just apply the proposed fix.
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Chi Garu
Vampyre Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.22 12:47:00 -
[137]
I like this idea!
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Jondo Marikesh
Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.11.22 13:27:00 -
[138]
/signed
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Gon Im
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Posted - 2009.11.22 13:36:00 -
[139]
/signed
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Equinox II
Nex Exercitus IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.22 18:50:00 -
[140]
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I SoStoned
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Posted - 2009.11.22 19:39:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida YES
Additional Solution: - Disallow use of any offensive module/drone within docking range of station. - Make RR count as full PvP aggro (ie. an offensive module). - Disallow static/anchored bubbles covering docking ports.
What this does: - Prevents the lagtastic constant skirmishes outside Empire hub stations. - Prevents RR gayness at docking ports. - Prevents RR gayness jumping gates when targeted. - Removes neutral RR gayness in high-sec/low-sec. - Removes permanent camps of stations. Still possible but you have to risk at least tackling ships. - Gives 0.0 station defenders ability to get out and engage in 'proper' combat, provided they can clear the docking tackle.
Meets your goal and solves a whole heap of issues associated with it on top.
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hired goon
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Posted - 2009.11.22 21:16:00 -
[142]
-omg-
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small chimp
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Posted - 2009.11.22 22:20:00 -
[143]
I thought ccp was encouraging people for docking games? It seems they think that its exciting and good gaming!
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Bodhisattvas
0utbreak
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Posted - 2009.11.23 01:31:00 -
[144]
Edited by: Bodhisattvas on 23/11/2009 01:31:16
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lylaal
NED-Clan Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.11.23 10:54:00 -
[145]
this would indeed fix alot of issues.
no more carrier ********* so you can actually start a fight and have 1 side win instead if 1 side just docking up and laughing.
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Plaetean
Murder-Death-Kill
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Posted - 2009.11.23 11:03:00 -
[146]
Edited by: Plaetean on 23/11/2009 11:05:10 Wow, terrible idea, and I'm amazed to see so many people supporting it. Has the general consensus over eve changed that much since I played regularly?
This would remove a massive tactical element from the gameplay; the moment you agress anything you're 100% stuck in that system/situation till the fight is over and either you or the guys agressing you are dead, now either people are failing to understand that and how serious a change it would be, or you seem to think its a good idea (which it is not).
All it would mean is that people are EVEN LESS likely to fight in small gangs, due to being stuck and totally vulnerable to larger gangs the moment they enagage anything. There would be no such thing as a retreat, and fights would generally end in one side being 100% obliterated assuming people are competant with points; as there's no other way for the fight to end. This would especially be the case in situations where you're fighting people near their 'home', they can keep trickling in greater numbers until you simply become overwhelmed.
Solo pvp is dead, small gang pvp is on its way, and now you want to make anyone who fights on a gate stuck there until he's killed the entire other gang?
Jesus.
Edit: This is also especially insane as all you need to do is make stations spit outs by default.
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Plaetean
Murder-Death-Kill
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Posted - 2009.11.23 11:13:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Nuuskur Agreed, this is imho, as perfect a solution as it can be.
Even the "but a player can be kept there indefinetly" issue is imho a non-issue. Just don't engage stuff you cannot kill. If you get caught in such a way then you seriously deserve it.
Don't engage a gang unless you're sure you can kill the entire other gang before help arrives? And you think this is a good change for pvp? Words can't describe the facepalm.
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Fransua
Universal Exports Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.11.23 11:45:00 -
[148]
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Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.23 12:24:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Becq Starforged SOLUTION
The basic mechanic that needs to be modified is the docking/gate timer, which prevents performing those actions within a minute after the last aggressive act was committed. A common suggestion has been to simply increase the docking time, but that is a bad solution for two reasons. First, unless the timer is fairly long, it doesn't address the issue of capital ship docking games, especially the lowsec version, where the capital ship has plenty of time to de-aggro and dock. Second, the longer the time is, the more irritating it will be to legitimate attempts to dock or use a gate, for example after a fight is finished.
Here is a better solution:
Quote: Very simply, the timers that control station docking and gate jumping after aggression should be modified as follows: * So long as a ship does not commit an aggressive act (weapons, drones, EW, remote repair of a combatant, etc), no timer applies to docking or gate use (beyond the usual session change limits). * If a ship acts in an aggressive manner, that ship gains the usual aggression flag, and the station/gate timer is set to one minute. Until the timer runs out, the ship cannot dock or use gates. * Once flagged, any hostile act whether it's by the ship in question or against it will reset the station/gate timer to the full one minute.
That third bullet point represents the change in a nutshell. Let me clarify that point:
Currently, the timer to enter the station or jump through a gate resets itself each time you attack, and only runs down if you abstain from attacking for the duration of the timer. So if you stop attacking for a short time, you can re-enter the station regardless of what your opponents do. What I'm suggesting is that the station timer be reset any time you fire OR any time someone fires on you, so long as you have an aggression flag active to them.
This means that if you leave a station and see a camp there, you can still dock again so long as you hold your fire. But once you return fire, you are committing yourself to the fight, and the station will not shelter you if you fare poorly. If this happens, you still have the option to flee away from the station (assuming you aren't scrambled or can outrun your pursuers), and if you can avoid combat until the station/gate timer runs down, you can return to the station and dock. It also means that as long as you are flagged (aggression flag, not the station/gate timer), you will regain the full station/gate time if anyone you are flagged to fires on you. It also means that if you hold fire long enough for your aggression flag to expire, you are free to dock or jump even if you are attacked again on the way.
In short, this is not an nerf, it simply plugs a hole in the game system to prevent exploiting a technicality to engage in fights with zero risk.
Constructive criticism or other comments are welcome.
This is a realy Good idea 100% love it, that is all. ---------------------------------------------- I fail At forums ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ |
Mynxee
Hellcats The Bastards.
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Posted - 2009.11.23 12:36:00 -
[150]
Docking games are maddening. I like how this proposal pushes commitment to the fight but doesn't seem to force it on those who don't aggress in the first place.
Bump It! | My Blog: Life in Low Sec |
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