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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Anewb N'eve
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Posted - 2009.11.30 01:24:00 -
[211]
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Rain Kaessinde
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Posted - 2009.11.30 03:33:00 -
[212]
Edited by: Rain Kaessinde on 30/11/2009 03:32:49 +1 for sweet station-hugger tears, and making empire wars suck a little less.
Also, nice troll.
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Spaztick
Terminal Impact Kairakau
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Posted - 2009.11.30 05:17:00 -
[213]
+1
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Jaina Proudmoar
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Posted - 2009.11.30 06:07:00 -
[214]
This is pretty funny, lots of familiar names in this thread.
Whenever the issue was raised in the last year regarding docking games in highsec, these are the same people who would flame with "l2p" or "go to 0.0!".
Not supported. Let them experience how ridiculous docking games are firsthand. :)
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Krylis Nok
Scan This
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Posted - 2009.11.30 08:22:00 -
[215]
Edited by: Krylis Nok on 30/11/2009 08:22:18 Supported!!! Bump
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Cheer Up
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Posted - 2009.11.30 10:38:00 -
[216]
Sounds solid. Resetting the timer on every aggro is a good proposal.
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iam nameless
Disgruntled Pilots Syndicate Retribution.
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Posted - 2009.11.30 12:18:00 -
[217]
great idea sir your spot on !
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Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
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Posted - 2009.11.30 13:08:00 -
[218]
On the first sight I was not in favor of this solution. I always was thinking of some kind of ship mass/dock timer dependency. However after a few thoughts I think the proposal finally will prevent all those childish docking games at all. Either you fully commiting to a fight or stay docked. Aproved.
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Insa Rexion
CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.11.30 20:37:00 -
[219]
--------------------------------------------
DOMINION ! Welcome to Amarr Online the sequel, last buff was business, this time it's permanent |
Ariel Dawn
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.11.30 21:10:00 -
[220]
Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 30/11/2009 21:09:59 +1
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.11.30 23:00:00 -
[221]
This idea is neat and tidy. [Aussie players: join channel ANZAC] |
Neu Bastian
Valklear Guard
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Posted - 2009.11.30 23:12:00 -
[222]
one minmatar terrorist supporting another!
Quote:
Neu Bastian Valklear Guard - CEO
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davet517
Raata Invicti Undivided
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Posted - 2009.12.01 17:19:00 -
[223]
Edited by: davet517 on 01/12/2009 17:24:38
Originally by: Siddy
Originally by: davet517 Not good.
The system as proposed is vulnerable to being exploited with logonski attacks. I undock, you shoot at me, I shoot at you, then your five buddies log on, e-warp to the station, and I'm toast.
all boils down to the allseeing local chat.
remove it and there is no need for logonski
You are right, if local chat were removed there would be no need for logonski, becuase nobody in their right mind would ever do anything but dock if they were agressed at a station. Without some way of assessing the threat you're facing, one has to assume that the attacker is doing so because they're confident they have more backup close by than you do.
Because the "death penalty" in Eve is relatively severe, most tactics revolve around luring an opponent into a fight that's stacked in your favor, and unfortunately folks aren't above meta-gaming (logonski) to do it. The current mechanics allow the target of the meta-gaming tactic to disengage. The proposed mechanics don't.
Removing local will just make the population in general more risk averse, becuase, again, it will be difficult to impossible to assess the threat you're facing. The net result would be less willingness overall to PvP.
I think docking games are lame too, and I'd like to see them go away, but there is a serious hole in this proposal that needs to be addressed.
---------------- We're recruiting quality players. Check us out. |
Yankunytjatjara
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Posted - 2009.12.02 14:51:00 -
[224]
Supported make station campers cry
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Soldis
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.12.02 17:05:00 -
[225]
Just make all stations kick outs, else, blobs will be the real winner.
This is not a good idea. Make all stations kickouts, that's fair to all parties.
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darkmancer
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Posted - 2009.12.02 19:11:00 -
[226]
support - please include rr.
Also if your not agressed the time it takes to redock should be exponential. It allows quick undock/dock but repeated abuse will quickly lock you out of the station for a long time. --------------------------------- There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong |
Krystal Flores
Sinister Elite
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Posted - 2009.12.03 07:52:00 -
[227]
docking games are lame
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Greg6
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Posted - 2009.12.03 17:24:00 -
[228]
Elegant solution to a very annoying problem.
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Slyckback
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Posted - 2009.12.04 03:52:00 -
[229]
Outstanding idea. To hell with docking games.
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Tahkayun
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Posted - 2009.12.04 18:23:00 -
[230]
Seems like the best idea yet. -Supported-
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Hailey Sunweaver
Murientor Tribe
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Posted - 2009.12.04 22:37:00 -
[231]
signed
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Hellfury Resurrected
Incura HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.12.04 23:41:00 -
[232]
-------------------------------------------
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Manivald Kostaja
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Posted - 2009.12.06 00:34:00 -
[233]
supported
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Ozone71
Kamikaze Fleet Command
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Posted - 2009.12.06 01:16:00 -
[234]
I agree with you that there is a problem here for Dominion, so I am throwing in my support for a fix to Docking games.
On the other hand, I am not sure that an extended aggression timer is the solution.
In normal space, why not let people dock up to escape pirates, combat etc. If you do not have a GCC then run for a safe zone. Pirates just need to tackle better to prevent you from doing so.
As for player SOV space, think of it this way (for the Dominion Patch). You are fighting on their home turf, so they get the home ground advantage of local repairs. It just means that you need a bigger force to over come them.
The "infinite" repairs is an issue. I see no reason that a person can't dock, repair, and region the fight, it's the fact that they can do it indefinitely which is the problem.
Consider these 2 tweaks to the system.
1 - Repairs are not instant. Armour & structure take time to repair, and shields and capacitors need time to recharge. In a station, you pay, and it may take 5-10 minutes (depending on damage) for the repairs to complete. Players should get the option to cancel repairs at any time, if they are in a rush, but this leaves them with some damage, and a loss of any ISK they forked out.
The rate of repair is should be equivalent to about 2-3 times the largest remote repair module.
What this also provides is time for you, the aggressor. While they dock and repair, you get time to repair as well. Their repair (station based) is going to be faster than yours (ship based) but not immediate. Just make sure that you bring several logistics ships with you in a conquering fleet.
2 - Repairs are limited. Give the station a limited capacity to repair, just like manufacturing. You need to wait for a slot in the repair bay. Starbases in normal space have a huge limit, (to keep mission grinders happy) but player controlled stations and outposts have very few repair slots. (Which could be another part of the long term SOV upgrade... adding more facilities such as improved repair bays) Stations should also have an equivalent to a "Capacitor". In normal, day to day operations, this will remain stable at close to 100% as they would have a cap recharge rate to remain stable even with half of the repair bays in use. In a large defensive campaign, however, when you have ships of all sizes docking up, all repair bays are in use and there is a queue forming...the cap will drop and eventually run out. Then repairs stop until the station can replenish its battery banks.
What this provides. It does not set out to solve docking games at a normal station. If a pirate goes after someone and they do not have a GCC timer, then they should be able to dock and reach safety. I do not see a problem with this at all. If you are hunting someone and they dock up.. then wait, get a better tackler, or choose a different target.
What it does provide is a limitation on player held regions of space. If your cap fleet arrives to take on their cap fleet, then you can take them down. They have the home ground advantage, but its not infinite and immediate. You just need to make sure you have an overwhelming force.
Issues? This could be extended to all parts of the game, not just player controlled space, but would impact on mission runners trying to repair and head back to a mission. IMO ... tough. Eve is not safe.. so learn to minimise damage and warp out before its too late. "Ozone is blue and smells faintly of geraniums." (Qi, BBC TV) |
Siddy
Minmatar Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.06 12:40:00 -
[235]
Originally by: davet517 Edited by: davet517 on 01/12/2009 17:24:38
Originally by: Siddy
Originally by: davet517 Not good.
The system as proposed is vulnerable to being exploited with logonski attacks. I undock, you shoot at me, I shoot at you, then your five buddies log on, e-warp to the station, and I'm toast.
all boils down to the allseeing local chat.
remove it and there is no need for logonski
You are right, if local chat were removed there would be no need for logonski, becuase nobody in their right mind would ever do anything but dock if they were agressed at a station. Without some way of assessing the threat you're facing, one has to assume that the attacker is doing so because they're confident they have more backup close by than you do.
Because the "death penalty" in Eve is relatively severe, most tactics revolve around luring an opponent into a fight that's stacked in your favor, and unfortunately folks aren't above meta-gaming (logonski) to do it. The current mechanics allow the target of the meta-gaming tactic to disengage. The proposed mechanics don't.
Removing local will just make the population in general more risk averse, becuase, again, it will be difficult to impossible to assess the threat you're facing. The net result would be less willingness overall to PvP.
I think docking games are lame too, and I'd like to see them go away, but there is a serious hole in this proposal that needs to be addressed.
you sir are right that local chat removing whuld make it more intresting.
But bear in mind that removing local is two edget sword that swings both ways.
You dont know if they got more, they dont know that either. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Siddy
Minmatar Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.06 21:45:00 -
[236]
Docking Games Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Astria Tiphareth
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.12.07 19:04:00 -
[237]
Wish I'd seen this before, very elegant. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
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Ozone71
Caldari Kamikaze Fleet Command
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Posted - 2009.12.08 13:31:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Becq Starforged
This means that if you leave a station and see a camp there, you can still dock again so long as you hold your fire. But once you return fire, you are committing yourself to the fight, and the station will not shelter you if you fare poorly. If this happens, you still have the option to flee away from the station (assuming you aren't scrambled or can outrun your pursuers), and if you can avoid combat until the docking timer runs down, you can return to the station and dock. It also means that as long as you are flagged (aggression flag, not the docking timer), you will regain the full docking timer if anyone you are flagged to fires on you. It also means that if you hold fire long enough for your aggression flag to expire, you are free to dock even if you are attacked again on the way.
I wholly support a change to the Docking Games, but your solution has a serious flaw.
Imagine if you will, a non-combatant ship (Miner trader etc) arrives at, or tries to leave a station, only to find themselves in the middle of a camp. Of course, the Station represents safety, so they immediately attempt to dock.
If you are flying to a station, you are pretty right. You should be able to dock straight away.
If, however, you are leaving the station, then you have a 30 second session timer that you must wait out before you can re-dock.
What do you do during that 30 seconds?
Under your proposal, nothing, just do what you can to dock and hope that you survive. (assuming that you are scrammed and cant just warp away anyway)
The problem with your proposal is that you are not permitted to defend yourself.
Obviously, a mining or trading ship or even a smaller combat vessel will not be able to dent you, so within 30 seconds, it can't kill you before you kill it.
What it can do is simply try to survive. This will quite likely include aggressive tactics such as ECM, Sensor jamming, or taking out any drones that you use. Anything that drops your DPS by even a point might just be the difference between surviving the 30 second timer or not.
What you are proposing is that ships that undock are not permitted to defend themselves in anyway other than all out combat - which is not what many ships are designed for. You may as well be shooting fish in a barrel.
I support a change to docking tactics, as I see it as a huge problem for Dominion - you are right on that point.
I cannot, however, support your proposal as is.
"Ozone is blue and smells faintly of geraniums." (Qi, BBC TV) |
Demus DaVet
Minmatar Tides of Silence
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Posted - 2009.12.08 18:51:00 -
[239]
Edited by: Demus DaVet on 08/12/2009 18:52:36 Would be alot easier to add a docking timer that scaled upwards in relation to ship size or ship type. (think someone else said this too)
This firstly changes nothing about the Gate games, which are fine imo.
For combat purposes, if you've engaged you have not only your Docking timer but also the additional Agro timer to take into account. If you have not engaged, you mearly have your Docking timer to worry about.
It relates to the fluff of EVE, as larger ships take more time to manouver and more time to park.
Players undocking only to re-dock once shot are never really going to stay undocked, so with the above rules, they would either stay docked or un-dock and take the risks. None of this, in-out-in-out, whack-a-mole type gameplay.
The only problem i can see initionally is the innocent Industrials and the like that get ****d after warping to a station, but then again, people would argue if your putting an industrial in that situation then its your own fault.
I personally feel its better than a purely aggression based timer, and keeps, if not improves tactical options.
Although there are bound to be holes galore in there but meh - if you find them, fill um. ---------------------------- Implement Racial Fleet Setups
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ElvenLord
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Posted - 2009.12.08 20:37:00 -
[240]
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