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Marmios
Elite Aeronautic Developer Syndicate Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.27 14:10:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Marmios on 27/11/2009 14:10:58
Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: Batolemaeus Caldari PvP ships are already balanced and have their roles.
This statement, alone, shows the credibility of your statments.
Caldari ships are already deemed by most to be one of the poorest choices for PvP. And your whine about Amarr having no ability to change their damage type is absurd coming from one of the favored choices for PvP. I happen to know a Vargur pilot and he's extremely happy with the way his ship blazes through missions. I also know a few Kronos pilots who are equally fast going through missions and very dedicated to their brand of ship and they can't change their damage type any more than a Paladin can.
Yeah. Lets nerf anything that isn't Amarr and/or Minmatar. Let's boost everything that is Amarr and/or Minmatar. You poor little lambs aren't getting a fair shake and need all the help you can get.
Windjammer
LOL do you realize waht kinda of bull**** you are saying? You know the Scorpion, Rokh, Falcon, Crow, Chimera, Fylcatcher, Onyx? All useless. Cmon dude get a clue...
Hint: PvP isnt done in mission ships.
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.27 19:52:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs
Originally by: Captain Mastiff WHAT!!! They've actually shagged the CNR?
Who cares about passive recharge on a BS????
Who cares? Anyone who flys the ships of a race that depend upon shield tanking. That recharge rate adds to the tank on an active tanking ship and it does so in a significant way. It's why the tank of a ship like that becomes tougher as the shields are worn down. Making such a radical change is a big deal.
Ask yourself this: If nobody cares about the passive recharge on a BS.........why are they nerfing it?
Windjammer
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.27 20:05:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Marmios Edited by: Marmios on 27/11/2009 14:10:58
Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: Batolemaeus Caldari PvP ships are already balanced and have their roles.
This statement, alone, shows the credibility of your statments.
Caldari ships are already deemed by most to be one of the poorest choices for PvP. And your whine about Amarr having no ability to change their damage type is absurd coming from one of the favored choices for PvP. I happen to know a Vargur pilot and he's extremely happy with the way his ship blazes through missions. I also know a few Kronos pilots who are equally fast going through missions and very dedicated to their brand of ship and they can't change their damage type any more than a Paladin can.
Yeah. Lets nerf anything that isn't Amarr and/or Minmatar. Let's boost everything that is Amarr and/or Minmatar. You poor little lambs aren't getting a fair shake and need all the help you can get.
Windjammer
LOL do you realize waht kinda of bull**** you are saying? You know the Scorpion, Rokh, Falcon, Crow, Chimera, Fylcatcher, Onyx? All useless. Cmon dude get a clue...
Hint: PvP isnt done in mission ships.
No, look again. I didn't say "useless". I said, "deemed by most to be one of the poorest choices for PvP". Which is an entirely justified statment. Also, you might want to take another look at one of your examples, the Falcon. It's been nerfed to death in one fo the more recent update/releases.
Caldari are primarily missile users. Where are the heavy hitting PvP missile ships to compete with Amarr and Gallente front line ships?
Windjammer
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Josh Silver
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.27 21:44:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Windjammer
Caldari are primarily missile users. Where are the heavy hitting PvP missile ships to compete with Amarr and Gallente front line ships?
That's the Raven. You are welcome to use it and realize that missles are terrible in long range fleet battles.
Oh hey what's this, CCP realized this long ago and gave you the fleet battleship of awesomeness that is the Rokh. Woe is you
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CCP Ytterbium
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Posted - 2009.11.27 23:08:00 -
[35]
Edited by: CCP Ytterbium on 27/11/2009 23:11:07 In a nutshell, the shield recharge balance on the navy ships was mainly done for the following reason:
Faction ships receive as a rule of thumb +50% hitpoints on all their structure/armor/shield layers next to their tech 1 counterparts.
However, their flat shield recharge rates were never adjusted to account such a boost in the first place, and created a break with other ship lines. For example a Golem approximately has a base 3.61 shield flat recharge rate, while a standard Raven by comparison is at 3. The Raven Navy Issue rate is at 4.5.
Based on the previous statement, now consider that peak recharge rate, which happens around 1/3 of total shields, is a proportional factor of the flat shield recharge rate, and you get that efficiency increased again in the process.
Also let us not forget to add skills, rigs, resistances, implants and modules that further increase passive tanking ability and you result with navy ship shield recharge rates that are completely out of line, which was not an intended goal in the first place.
With the modifications happening to the navy ships for Dominion, keeping the shield recharge rate at 2500 seconds on top of the other boosts they receive was making them too efficient. Taking the Raven Navy Issue as instance since it is the main topic of this discussion, let us not forget its CPU was raised from 720 to 735, powergrid increased from 9500 to 10925, 25% more sensor resolution added and dronebay adjusted by 25m3.
Also, keeping shield recharge rates intact was especially not acceptable for platforms not using capacitor for at least some of their main weapon systems (like the Scorpion Navy Issue, Raven Navy Issue, Dominix Navy Issue, Typhoon Fleet Issue and Tempest Fleet Issue), since it would mean you could build excellent passive tanks while still maintaining average to good damage despite a capacitor recharge rate considerably reduced by shield power relays for instance.
We are sorry you may feel negatively affected by such changes, but navy ships were never supposed to excel at passive shield tanking in the first place. However we do concur players should have the option of doing so if they so wish as it brings options to the game, that is why the flat shield recharge rate for navy ships was kept 10% better than their tech one counterpart, which still is an advantage, just not out of line anymore.
Additional clarity note: capacitor recharge rate itself was not touched. |
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Elea Electronica
Gallente Dragon Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.11.27 23:32:00 -
[36]
There was one build that not right calculatet the CPU/PG/Shieldammount/Shieldrecarge/Caprecharge and ammount but the next patch fixt it.
on this one patch you must undock from station with closed fitting screen to see the true ammounts that why he thingt the capacitor element was changed.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.11.28 00:19:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Lord Haur
Originally by: Captain Mastiff If they decrease our tankability by decreasing the cap why don't we gain a standard 10% on EM resistance on shield. Considering how the armour tankers don't have any damage type with a resistance of 0%.
Does this mean I'll be getting auto-recharge on my armor?
I really wouldn't care if armor could regen, considering it would do nothing if you didn't specifically gear for it (and it utterly destroys your cap to do so with shields, I can only wonder how armor regen mods would gimp your ship).
So sure. Have the base 7hp/s peak or whatever that shields get. Will you then stop crying about this Ridiculously OverpoweredÖ mechanic?
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Batolemaeus
Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.28 02:20:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Windjammer Caldari are primarily missile users. Where are the heavy hitting PvP missile ships to compete with Amarr and Gallente front line ships?
I see you have no clue what you're talking about. ----------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Prism X In New Eden, EVE wins you.
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.28 06:03:00 -
[39]
So the nutshell fo the shield balance recharge is navy ships are all 50% better than t1 on the full HP hitpoint levels\
The new adjusted taking into account flat shield recharge rate has created an evening of other ship classes including the golem. The previous statements bring it back to a 1/3 total shield
All the modificatins that go in are a factor to. Keeping it intact is the goal and is now acceptible
negative feelingsa are par with the course for such changes but adapt or die rules in the excellence of the passive tank setup. The 10% better than tech 1 advantage is now a little more in line i approve of these changes good job CCP Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Ancy Denaries
Caldari The Confederate Navy Forever Unbound
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Posted - 2009.11.28 07:21:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: Batolemaeus Caldari PvP ships are already balanced and have their roles.
This statement, alone, shows the credibility of your statments.
Caldari ships are already deemed by most to be one of the poorest choices for PvP. And your whine about Amarr having no ability to change their damage type is absurd coming from one of the favored choices for PvP. I happen to know a Vargur pilot and he's extremely happy with the way his ship blazes through missions. I also know a few Kronos pilots who are equally fast going through missions and very dedicated to their brand of ship and they can't change their damage type any more than a Paladin can.
Yeah. Lets nerf anything that isn't Amarr and/or Minmatar. Let's boost everything that is Amarr and/or Minmatar. You poor little lambs aren't getting a fair shake and need all the help you can get.
Windjammer
You don't fly much Caldari in PvP...do you? They're all BUT useless. Unless of course you blob in RR battleships, but I'd be hard pressed to call that "PvP". ---- The Demigodess with a Conscience - An EVE IC Blog Personal Killboard |
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.28 07:50:00 -
[41]
Caldari in PVP have their role if the gang is right.
id like to see khandid get a laser-shield platform like the nightmare with less dps of course perhaps a dual laser-missile layout.
Combining some unique properties. RR battleships since sleepers have become common fleet tactics. PVP is any player versus plaeyr experience Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.28 09:59:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Josh Silver
Originally by: Windjammer
Caldari are primarily missile users. Where are the heavy hitting PvP missile ships to compete with Amarr and Gallente front line ships?
That's the Raven. You are welcome to use it and realize that missles are terrible in long range fleet battles.
Thanks. As a member of a corp that uses Amarr ships heavily, it's big of you to agree with me. I appreciate it.
Regards, Windjammer
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.28 10:05:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Batolemaeus Let's not forget: Drake, Basilisk, Kitsune, Griffin, Blackbird, Caracal, Cerberus, Torpraven...
Really..........the Drake a PvP ship. How do you expect to be taken seriously when you write things like that?
Windjammer
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Marmios
Elite Aeronautic Developer Syndicate Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.28 10:07:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: Batolemaeus Let's not forget: Drake, Basilisk, Kitsune, Griffin, Blackbird, Caracal, Cerberus, Torpraven...
Really..........the Drake a PvP ship. How do you expect to be taken seriously when you write things like that?
Windjammer
Someone tell this man about Drake/ Scimi gangs. He doesnt seem to know what he is talking about.
Another pro tip: lurking in the forums isnt exaclty pvping.
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.28 10:11:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Ancy Denaries
Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: Batolemaeus Caldari PvP ships are already balanced and have their roles.
This statement, alone, shows the credibility of your statments.
Caldari ships are already deemed by most to be one of the poorest choices for PvP. And your whine about Amarr having no ability to change their damage type is absurd coming from one of the favored choices for PvP. I happen to know a Vargur pilot and he's extremely happy with the way his ship blazes through missions. I also know a few Kronos pilots who are equally fast going through missions and very dedicated to their brand of ship and they can't change their damage type any more than a Paladin can.
Yeah. Lets nerf anything that isn't Amarr and/or Minmatar. Let's boost everything that is Amarr and/or Minmatar. You poor little lambs aren't getting a fair shake and need all the help you can get.
Windjammer
You don't fly much Caldari in PvP...do you? They're all BUT useless. Unless of course you blob in RR battleships, but I'd be hard pressed to call that "PvP".
You tell him, sister.
Windjammer
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Draahk Chimera
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.28 11:56:00 -
[46]
Mr Windjammer sir. I feel oblied to tell you that since the nano-nerf some of the caldari ships has become very prominent in pvp. The drake/scimitar combo has become one of the norms in roaming gangs. Cerberus is popular in snipe hac gangs because of their excellent range and ability to seriosly hurt enemy dictors. Coupled with the fact that rokh and crow was always among the best of their class. Caldari is seriously underperforming in 2 areas only of pvp: rrbs since they have no armor tankers and dreadfights since capital missiles is a joke. If you stick to cloaked scouting duty or light support while in a rrbs fleet and train carrier instead of dread you will do just fine as a caldari pvper.
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Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
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Posted - 2009.11.28 12:45:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Forge Lag on 28/11/2009 12:56:58 Yes, Caldari solo BS PvP is crap. I feel for everyone suffering from that deficiency, I really do, you have my support for cheaper Widow. In the meantime, get some Drake or Rook - or stop soloing.
In the end, the so called CNR nerf was Fleet Pest nerf and because hurting the cripple was not enough they kept hitting it some more. And the navy Domi was nerfhammered in womb just to be sure.
At the same time we present you the abomination that is new and 70% improved passive Rattlesnake. Poor Caldari. In other news, CCP paints moms and nerfs passive tanks - in their wet dreams.
Edit: To the guy above, with whom I agree: Raven may not be the best armor tanker (on par with Pest roughly) but it does have two utility highs and good range to go with them. And even if Caldari could not RR well they are the only race that can reliably *break* those circles.
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.30 20:13:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Draahk Chimera Mr Windjammer sir. I feel oblied to tell you that since the nano-nerf some of the caldari ships has become very prominent in pvp. The drake/scimitar combo has become one of the norms in roaming gangs. Cerberus is popular in snipe hac gangs because of their excellent range and ability to seriosly hurt enemy dictors. Coupled with the fact that rokh and crow was always among the best of their class. Caldari is seriously underperforming in 2 areas only of pvp: rrbs since they have no armor tankers and dreadfights since capital missiles is a joke. If you stick to cloaked scouting duty or light support while in a rrbs fleet and train carrier instead of dread you will do just fine as a caldari pvper.
Appreciate the input. However, CCP is still handing out a piece of candy with their left hand while ramming home a dull blade with their right to be followed by a slow grinding twist of the knife.
Windjammer
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.30 20:53:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Forge Lag Edited by: Forge Lag on 28/11/2009 12:56:58 Yes, Caldari solo BS PvP is crap. I feel for everyone suffering from that deficiency, I really do, you have my support for cheaper Widow. In the meantime, get some Drake or Rook - or stop soloing.
In the end, the so called CNR nerf was Fleet Pest nerf and because hurting the cripple was not enough they kept hitting it some more. And the navy Domi was nerfhammered in womb just to be sure.
At the same time we present you the abomination that is new and 70% improved passive Rattlesnake. Poor Caldari. In other news, CCP paints moms and nerfs passive tanks - in their wet dreams.
Edit: To the guy above, with whom I agree: Raven may not be the best armor tanker (on par with Pest roughly) but it does have two utility highs and good range to go with them. And even if Caldari could not RR well they are the only race that can reliably *break* those circles.
I might have more to say on the Fleet Tempest, but the OP of this thread chose to focus on the CNR. Suffice it to say that in general I do not like nerfs of any ship.
You can't really say the Rattlesnake, new or otherise, is a pure Caldari ship. The hull is modeled after the Scorpion, true, but the skill tree is that of two races. Caldari and Gallente. This is particularly significant in the post Dominion model since they seem to have made it into a Dominix with missiles and shield tanking.
Windjammer
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Inara Subaka
Caldari Ghost Festival Naraka.
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Posted - 2009.11.30 21:24:00 -
[50]
Since we're going off topic of the CNR... there's a saying that's been around for a while now that you should take into consideration.
Pick 3 of the following, and you'll be fine: Caldari PvP Good Solo
Caldari ships are some of the best fleet supporting ships available for pvp, they can solo pve amazingly, but they can't go solo roaming to raep face like many other ships can (there are a few exceptions to this rule, but I don't want to get into that).
On the topic of the CNR, yes it kinda sucks they are kicking it's recharge ability a bit, but I'd rather see than than massive CNR fleets, that are more annoying than Drakes to kill, spewing torps at people. So you're going to have to rethink your fits a bit... htfu, it happens like here and here.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.12.01 14:56:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Inara Subaka Pick 3 of the following, and you'll be fine: Caldari PvP Good Solo
You don't actually believe this drivel, do you?
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Troll Bridgington
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Posted - 2009.12.01 15:22:00 -
[52]
Haha! Well THAT sucks.
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2009.12.01 16:47:00 -
[53]
Wait... so how much hp/s tank are you actually missing out with the 50% shield recharge reduction on an active tanked CNR? 20? 15? Whine more.
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Proteus Maximus
Caldari DarKNight BrotherHood The Unforgiven Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.01 17:14:00 -
[54]
Quote: CNR on the otherhand... nobody ever passive tanked them. So big deal.
I DID. How ever I gave it up in September for a Nighthawk. Why did I run a passive buffer? Well it's simple. After being jumped in mission neuted and poped (IE butt fked) it was a clear choice. Looks I was right in sh_t canning it when I did .
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