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[Issue] Don't ruin the naglfar again with Dominion

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Dan Grommel Minmatar Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.11.20 16:13:00 - [1] Considering the latest devblog about capital ship changes it seems that ccp has left the good path it was on for changing capitals with the upcoming expansion and has rolled back almost every good idea there was. And not only that. Given the new stats given for XL turrets and the change of bonuses for the Naglfar on SISI, the ship will become useless again. Dreads only purpose is to shoot stationary (or almost stationairy) objects. The only thing that matters here is dps and tank. Naglfar won't have any of that if the changes will be implemented. After years of being the sup-par Dread the Naglfar was brought in line with the other dreads with the last expansion. Please CCP change your mind and leave the Naglfar its current TQ stats!
draak noir Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.11.20 16:23:00 - [2] +1
ajduB Minmatar Militaris Industries Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.11.20 16:28:00 - [3] Agreed! Originally by: Jim Lovell Adjub im Shocked!
Herschel Yamamoto Agent-Orange	Posted - 2009.11.20 16:34:00 - [4] Edited by: Herschel Yamamoto on 20/11/2009 16:35:08 But come on - projectiles with a gyrostab are competitive with unbonused railguns now. And all you have to do is paint the dreadnought you're shooting, and those missiles will do their full paper damage. Doesn't that mean the split-weapon projectile ship will be better than the focused-weapon hybrid ship?
bournville The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.11.20 16:43:00 - [5] i fully endorse the above statement/product.
Urhgo Khanab Rogen's Heroes	Posted - 2009.11.20 16:54:00 - [6] Supported
Thorvik Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.11.20 18:02:00 - [7] Supported
Don Pellegrino Helljumpers	Posted - 2009.11.20 18:17:00 - [8] The Naglfar was almost perfect after the first capitals change, during the All Level 5 event. And now it's a lot worse than Rev/Moros again.
grypher	Posted - 2009.11.20 19:06:00 - [9] +1
Scatim Helicon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.20 19:18:00 - [10] re-save the Naglfar
Elaron Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.11.20 20:14:00 - [11] Reiterating points I've made before with respect to this change: It is really unnecessary to reintroduce split weapon bonuses when, if balance was required, reducing the focused turret bonuses could have done the job just as well. Minmatar Dreadnought pilots from many diverse and opposing alliances supported the original motions calling on the CSM to bring this matter up with the content developers. When he finally looked at it, Chronotis did an excellent job of taking the original idea for the ship and blending it with player requests for change, creating a compromise that left the ship competitive without overpowering it. The Naglfar requires the most training of all of the Dreadnoughts. Two (three with Dominion) capital weapon systems, and (for optimal fitting flexibility) both styles of capital tanking. The tanking flexibility was balanced by not having as many slots to tank with as it's peers (Phoenix has 7 mid slots; Moros has 7 low slots and Revelation has 8 low slots). If training time is not a factor in balancing ships with their peers it should be. Additionally, Nozh is reinflicting the old problem with split weapon bonuses - that is, it takes two bonuses on the ship to achieve the damage boost that other dreadnoughts do with one, and it takes two damage mods to get the same effect as one. This was debated with Chronotis when the previous round of Naglfar changes were on the drawing board, and he willingly concede the point. This change appears ill-informed and disrespectful, both of the player base and of Nozh's coworkers. It must be reversed.
maya ibuki2 THORN Syndicate Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.11.20 20:56:00 - [12] Edited by: maya ibuki2 on 20/11/2009 20:56:01 null dont screw over the naglfar again; it just finally surpassed the fact that it was considered little more than extra ehp for the moros next to it, it doesnt need nerfing again 0ok!
Random Womble Emo Rangers Electric Monkey Overlords	Posted - 2009.11.20 21:05:00 - [13]
Alhambra Rainwalker Rosa Alba Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.20 21:59:00 - [14] Full support.
Levistus Junior The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.11.21 11:48:00 - [15] /supported If these nerfs continue, this game is really threatening to become Amarr Online.
Kazzzi Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.11.21 22:55:00 - [16] Thumbs up
Skaverni	Posted - 2009.11.22 08:01:00 - [17] Nagfar is op , not supported.
Pointfive	Posted - 2009.11.22 08:55:00 - [18] Supported, these changes make no sense.
Kiri Serrensun	Posted - 2009.11.22 10:11:00 - [19]
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.11.22 12:30:00 - [20] It's insane to change the Nag so soon after it was fixed to basically universal satisfaction. Why fix what aint broke?
Myrkala Aurora Acclivitous	Posted - 2009.11.22 14:49:00 - [21] Originally by: Elaron Reiterating points I've made before with respect to this change: It is really unnecessary to reintroduce split weapon bonuses when, if balance was required, reducing the focused turret bonuses could have done the job just as well. Minmatar Dreadnought pilots from many diverse and opposing alliances supported the original motions calling on the CSM to bring this matter up with the content developers. When he finally looked at it, Chronotis did an excellent job of taking the original idea for the ship and blending it with player requests for change, creating a compromise that left the ship competitive without overpowering it. The Naglfar requires the most training of all of the Dreadnoughts. Two (three with Dominion) capital weapon systems, and (for optimal fitting flexibility) both styles of capital tanking. The tanking flexibility was balanced by not having as many slots to tank with as it's peers (Phoenix has 7 mid slots; Moros has 7 low slots and Revelation has 8 low slots). If training time is not a factor in balancing ships with their peers it should be. Additionally, Nozh is reinflicting the old problem with split weapon bonuses - that is, it takes two bonuses on the ship to achieve the damage boost that other dreadnoughts do with one, and it takes two damage mods to get the same effect as one. This was debated with Chronotis when the previous round of Naglfar changes were on the drawing board, and he willingly concede the point. This change appears ill-informed and disrespectful, both of the player base and of Nozh's coworkers. It must be reversed. Supported, split weapon systems are bad. You end up using more slots to do the same as other ships do with one, unfair. 2 Damage Mods (Gyro+BCS) on Naglfar = 1 Damage Mod on Revelation, Moros, Phoenix And don't forget, Naglfar has 6/6 slot layout, so it is already tanking less than the Phoenix.
TheCraftyHippo MicroBite Scrap and Salvage	Posted - 2009.11.22 16:26:00 - [22] I was literally days from plugging the skillbooks in, damnit. Now This. ___________ Please don't shoot me. I'll explode.
Alaria Tinburin	Posted - 2009.11.22 22:13:00 - [23]
Jessie Arr	Posted - 2009.11.22 22:19:00 - [24] Supported. Split tanking and split weapons is ftl.
Lusulpher Blackwater Syndicate Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.11.23 05:31:00 - [25] Originally by: Elaron Reiterating points I've made before with respect to this change: It is really unnecessary to reintroduce split weapon bonuses when, if balance was required, reducing the focused turret bonuses could have done the job just as well. Minmatar Dreadnought pilots from many diverse and opposing alliances supported the original motions calling on the CSM to bring this matter up with the content developers. When he finally looked at it, Chronotis did an excellent job of taking the original idea for the ship and blending it with player requests for change, creating a compromise that left the ship competitive without overpowering it. The Naglfar requires the most training of all of the Dreadnoughts. Two (three with Dominion) capital weapon systems, and (for optimal fitting flexibility) both styles of capital tanking. The tanking flexibility was balanced by not having as many slots to tank with as it's peers (Phoenix has 7 mid slots; Moros has 7 low slots and Revelation has 8 low slots). If training time is not a factor in balancing ships with their peers it should be. Additionally, Nozh is reinflicting the old problem with split weapon bonuses - that is, it takes two bonuses on the ship to achieve the damage boost that other dreadnoughts do with one, and it takes two damage mods to get the same effect as one. This was debated with Chronotis when the previous round of Naglfar changes were on the drawing board, and he willingly concede the point. This change appears ill-informed and disrespectful, both of the player base and of Nozh's coworkers. It must be reversed. 7
Molten Black Trust Doesn't Rust Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.11.25 04:22:00 - [26]
Tupsu Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United	Posted - 2009.11.25 13:34:00 - [27] :o
Bomberlocks Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2009.11.26 01:32:00 - [28] Originally by: Levistus Junior /supported If these nerfs continue, this game is really threatening to become Amarr Online. This, and I can't even fly a Nag yet (And now I'm pretty sure I don't want to). I get a lot of flak on the forums for my ranting about the way the Minnies are being continually screwed over with every single patch that CCP brings out, such as the coming Navy Armageddon which is quite possibly the best BS in game, making that, uhm, only 4 very good BS's the Amarr have compared to, at most, 2 halfway decent ones for the other races. It's kind of paranoid, but one seriously gets the feeling that none of the CCP developers actually fly any Minnie ships in PvP.
Hrodgar Ortal Ma'adim Logistics	Posted - 2009.11.26 10:51:00 - [29] Definitively supporting. At the very least they should change it so the training time is more similar. Training 40% more for less dps, less tank and less everything is just pure idiocy.
Elaron Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.11.26 18:00:00 - [30] Given that the static data dump is out for Dominion, it's probably too late now for anything to change before the patch hits. But we can at least try to get this reviewed in the first post-Dominion patch.

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