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Masikari
State War Academy
Caldari State
35
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Posted - 2012.06.16 23:37:00 -
[31] - Quote
I always lol at KB-Humpers. Who frigging cares? SD is a legitimate tactic, get over it. Want the KM? Bring more DPS! Honestly, fail PvPers are the biggest whiners of them all. |
Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1239
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Posted - 2012.06.16 23:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
Masikari wrote:I always lol at KB-Humpers. Who frigging cares? SD is a legitimate tactic, get over it. Want the KM? Bring more DPS! Honestly, fail PvPers are the biggest whiners of them all.
Let's be honest, the people self destructing are the KB humpers.
I wouldn't even care if the aggressors didn't show up on the kill mail, as long as it dropped loot and generated some sort of publicly viewable entry that the pilot self destructed.
A lot of people fight for loot and profit, not for kill mails. Those of us that fight for profit generally fight solo or in small gangs, and so even when dropping dreads will not always have the DPS to beat a 2 minute timer. Against capitals the two minute timer is just an annoying reason to not bother engaging.
I also find it silly that people can hide how terribad they are, I know people who have self destructed multiple capitals due to semi-AFK anomaly grinding. They really shouldn't be able to hide that they are that bad at Eve. (I also know two people that hot drop two prometheus fit carriers a lot, and they have self destructed when tackled by gangs with logi on a number of occasions.)
But most of all, an artificial two minute timer on capital fleet fights is just silly. It encourages people to bring enough DPS to win in minutes, and as a result means that in almost no circumstances will any target ever have time for reinforcements. If fleets could win in 5 minutes, maybe people wouldn't rely on blobbing so much and victims of ganks may have time to get a little help.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |
Bane Nucleus
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
73
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Posted - 2012.06.17 00:25:00 -
[33] - Quote
Pink Marshmellow wrote:The only real issue of self-destruct is that you receive insurance from it.
Remove insurance payment for self-destruct. That's the same as me blowing up my own car on purpose and receiving money for it.
This guy has it right.
Alliance Diplomat, Recruiter |
Jimmy Gunsmythe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2012.06.17 00:41:00 -
[34] - Quote
MrYogi Lee wrote:Hello
Self-destruction, sometimes useful thing, but not during a fight!
Needs to be changed to stop the paranoia that exists in EVE, where the fleet carriers or dreds, doing self-destruction and the KB is perhaps 1-2 ships, but in fact fell in 10 times as much.
In most cases, when a small gang, attack carriers or dreads it ends in self-destruction, because in 2 minutes are not able to kill him.
This spoils the statistics KB, but also causes doubt in the sense of the game among players.
My proposals for changes:
When the vessel is lock target, or in a bubble, it is not possible to attach self-destruction.
If self-destruction was included earlier, in the meantime, the ship will be lock target or in a bubble, self-destruction turns off.
Significantly improved by all the fun.
Another option is when the ship will receive some DMG and it will activate the self-destruction is the killboard (auto api)
CCP what you say?
Regards
M
Ps. sorry for my English
Dear CCP,
We didn't bring enough DPS to destroy a ship before the self-destruct sequence expired. As this adversely affects our KB stats, please remove self-destructing during combat, even if there is no other reason to have it in game. It's far too hard to destroy a ship in this time and we need this aspect of the game to be easier. Our KB will thank you!
Sincerely,
OP.
A good predator knows how to live in balance with his prey, lest he follow them into oblivion. |
Skorpynekomimi
222
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Posted - 2012.06.17 00:50:00 -
[35] - Quote
The problem is not self destruct. It is the obsession with killmails. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
91
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Posted - 2012.06.17 02:57:00 -
[36] - Quote
What if it produced a killmail with no intel but a stamp "self-destructed", a wreck with no salvage or loot.
"A good compromise leaves everybody mad"
-Calvin and Hobbes |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
1567
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Posted - 2012.06.17 03:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
People self destructing to avoid killmails are just as pathetic as people whining about them.
The former does it to avoid meaningless e-peen shrinking, the latter whines due to lack of meaningless e-peen growth...
Just remove killmails - problem solved.
You know... morons. |
Jonni Favorite
Sundown Logistics
SpaceMonkey's Alliance
100
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Posted - 2012.06.17 03:32:00 -
[38] - Quote
Working as intended. Stop worrying about some stats website and play the game.. |
Makkal Hanaya
Drakenburg
127
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Posted - 2012.06.17 03:39:00 -
[39] - Quote
Cpt Pugwash wrote:Self Desrtucting to prevent enemy getting loot or satisfaction of the kill etc is perfectly legitimate.
This. It may be petty, but I'll blow myself up before I let you have my stuff.
although my eyes were open
they might have just as well've been closed
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Trollin
93
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Posted - 2012.06.17 05:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
self destruct timer should be alterable by the pilot commanding the ship
If they want it to be 3 seconds, its their ship...
You are your own worst enemy. |
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1615
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Posted - 2012.06.17 05:45:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cpt Pugwash wrote:Self Desrtucting to prevent enemy getting loot or satisfaction of the kill etc is perfectly legitimate.
Petition CCP to give you a killmail even when a ship self destructs if you care so much about it but don't ask for a perfectly legit game device to me removed because you cannot live without your precious killmail.
Even Starfleet vessels have a self destruct mechanism and they are about as carebear as they come
Every few months we get a thread like this.
How about this: why can a T1 frigate have the ability to warp scramble a cap ship?
But that's not good enough. Now they want to be able to destroy it with subcaps faster than it can SD and for what?
A killboard.
I think SD should have a timer that is settable by the pilot. From "Right F**king Now!" to as long as you want.
Edit: SD should also do area of effect damage. So when the subcaps - and especially some ghetto tackler T1 rig that should never have had enough power to scramble a ship millions of times its mass - are too close they get popped. That plus a variable SD is going to make "staying inside the turret speed" and "staying outside the blast range" an interesting facet to these kinds of engagements. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin.
Black Legion.
500
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Posted - 2012.06.17 05:57:00 -
[42] - Quote
Morganta wrote:kill things faster
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hedge betts Shiyurida
State War Academy
Caldari State
27
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Posted - 2012.06.17 06:03:00 -
[43] - Quote
Or how about get rid of kill boards, and stop messing with the game
Cup the balls, and work the shaft |
Ohanka
Aggressive Narcissists
112
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Posted - 2012.06.17 06:05:00 -
[44] - Quote
Why do killmails even really matter. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa
Stark Enterprises
1534
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Posted - 2012.06.17 06:08:00 -
[45] - Quote
PvP is not supposed to be fair. Gank it in 2 mins or cry us a river
~deal with it~ |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
384
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Posted - 2012.06.17 06:35:00 -
[46] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Masikari wrote:I always lol at KB-Humpers. Who frigging cares? SD is a legitimate tactic, get over it. Want the KM? Bring more DPS! Honestly, fail PvPers are the biggest whiners of them all. Let's be honest, the people self destructing are the KB humpers.
Exactly!
Also all those posters saying you should "kill faster" are in fact saying you should zerg/blob more.
I think as soon as you set self destruct your pod should eject from the ship, and Code Breaker mods can turn off self destruct and open the ship for boarding. It would make sense, it would be fun, it would be balanced!
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Roime
Shiva Furnace
Dead On Arrival Alliance
888
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Posted - 2012.06.17 07:14:00 -
[47] - Quote
Suggested changes to SD mechanics:
- no insurance
- destroys pod
- not possible inside a POS force field
- timer is 10 minutes under aggression (2min without)
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
81
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Posted - 2012.06.17 08:10:00 -
[48] - Quote
Jonni Favorite wrote:Working as intended. Stop worrying about some stats website and play the game..
then why do ppl SD if they don't worry about stats??
tbh, don't bring the loot in as excuse, loot is irrelevant
I risk my ship, you risk your ship. I win for some reasons and I can't have anything to acknowledge my work.
imagine you went to college for 4 yrs and don't any certificate to put into your resume
I don't care about either km or loot. I want proof that this guy lost ship to me and shamelessly selfdestruct it |
Lord Zim
848
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Posted - 2012.06.20 07:39:00 -
[49] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:I don't think anyone wants self destructs removed entirely, however two minute SDs for both rifters and wyverns makes little sense. SD timers should scale with ship size.
Actually, it doesn't much matter, since the self-destruct is probably something which is facilitated through mechanisms which is put in the ship during manufacture, so once it goes off, everything goes off.
Now if we were to argue that the explosion itself should take longer, then I agree. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8104
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Posted - 2012.06.20 07:46:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ohanka wrote:Why do killmails even really matter. They provide intel.
Self-destructing to deny someone a killmail also denies them the intel.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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James Arget
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
14
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Posted - 2012.06.20 07:56:00 -
[51] - Quote
Let's be honest here; CCP is moving toward "official" killboards and stats. The Mercenary Marketplace is directly tied to the idea that you can see how well a corporation performs in PVP, both in ships killed and ISK destroyed. Right now, it's limited mostly to war decs, but the trend is headed toward the quintessential killboard being canon.
The argument of "kill faster" simply is not an option under many, if not most circumstances. When dealing with ships in the same general class, 2 minutes is usually enough. When dealing with ships of drastically different classes (supercaps vs. capitals, or capitals vs. subcaps), 2 minutes is a very, very short timeline.
It's pointless to act as though killboards do not matter, because they do to the community at large. Supercapital logoff was balanced, self-destruct is next in line. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8106
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Posted - 2012.06.20 08:01:00 -
[52] - Quote
James Arget wrote:Supercapital logoff was balanced, self-destruct is next in line. The difference being that logging off was used to ensure you didn't explode; self-destruction is used to ensure that you doGǪ
The GÇ£balanceGÇ¥ argument kind of loses its edge when the result of the action is exactly what the opponent wants: that the ship goes poof. The GÇ£kill fasterGÇ¥ argument might not work, but you still get the kill GÇö what being fast enough buys you is information that you might not have otherwise gleamed. It seems like a reasonable reward for being efficient.
That said, yes, SDs could probably be made to provide kill mails just to prove the ship loss, but such a mail should also still be intel-free.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
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Roime
Shiva Furnace
Dead On Arrival Alliance
896
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Posted - 2012.06.20 08:08:00 -
[53] - Quote
Tippia wrote:
That said, yes, SDs could probably be made to provide kill mails just to prove the ship loss, but such a mail should also still be intel-free.
That's a good suggestion - just the ship and total value without specific module info.
Denying intel is a legit reason, but currently SD is performed to prevent the lossmail for affecting killboards, ie. to twist reality.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Lord Zim
848
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Posted - 2012.06.20 08:11:00 -
[54] - Quote
Tippia wrote:That said, yes, SDs could probably be made to provide kill mails just to prove the ship loss, but such a mail should also still be intel-free.
I don't see why this should be a point, but to be honest I don't care enough to argue neither for nor against it. The only reason I'd like to see SD create any killmails at all is to discourage e-honoure K/D whores like some NCdot guys I've witnessed first-hand who selfdestructed their drakes because they got trapped in a system, and I'm not joking when they unironically got all cocky about how we weren't "going to get a killmail out of it at least!". |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness
The Midget Mafia
1540
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Posted - 2012.06.20 13:28:00 -
[55] - Quote
and for those who feel SD has no practical value beyond denying the winner a KM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuttling
The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Gerald Taric
68
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:11:00 -
[56] - Quote
"I did not got my killmail, *whine*"
Are this the highly desired so called "sweet tears"?
Cpt Pugwash wrote:Self Desrtucting to prevent enemy getting loot or satisfaction of the kill etc is perfectly legitimate. This.
And some things have to be added:
1.) Obviously the attacker was not able to kill the victim within the self-destruct-timer-count-down.
2.) If the victim decides to surrender, although he might be able to defeat himself, he looses the ship definitely.
3.) It is possible, that the victim decided to take the surprise at the enemy to gain 1-2 seconds in order to escape with his pod?
Anyway: One goal has been reached: To harm the enemy. So what?
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Lord Zim
849
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:14:00 -
[57] - Quote
If someone would rather selfdestruct their ship than go into a fight and get a lossmail and ruin their precious kill/death ratio, then it's a mechanic which needs looking at. vOv |
Shareen Dainer
Deviance Inc
0
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:19:00 -
[58] - Quote
Pink Marshmellow wrote:The only real issue of self-destruct is that you receive insurance from it.
Remove insurance payment for self-destruct. That's the same as me blowing up my own car on purpose and receiving money for it.
K, Lets also remove insurance payouts for losses taken:
While at war.
In low sec.
In null sec.
In wormholes.
In missions.
In incursions.
After all, that's the same as driving around in a warzone and receiving money for your wrecked car.
Agreed? No?
Didn't think so. |
Lord Zim
849
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:24:00 -
[59] - Quote
I see no problems with removing insurance payouts altogether. vOv |
Shareen Dainer
Deviance Inc
0
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:26:00 -
[60] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:I see no problems with removing insurance payouts altogether. vOv
Fair enough, I'm ok with that, I just find these "remove X cause in real life Y is....." arguments idiotic when discussing game balance :P |
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