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MrYogi Lee
Thou shalt not kill
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 11:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello
Self-destruction, sometimes useful thing, but not during a fight!
Needs to be changed to stop the paranoia that exists in EVE, where the fleet carriers or dreds, doing self-destruction and the KB is perhaps 1-2 ships, but in fact fell in 10 times as much.
In most cases, when a small gang, attack carriers or dreads it ends in self-destruction, because in 2 minutes are not able to kill him.
This spoils the statistics KB, but also causes doubt in the sense of the game among players.
My proposals for changes:
When the vessel is lock target, or in a bubble, it is not possible to attach self-destruction. If self-destruction was included earlier, in the meantime, the ship will be lock target or in a bubble, self-destruction turns off.
Significantly improved by all the fun.
Another option is when the ship will receive some DMG and it will activate the self-destruction is the killboard (auto api)
CCP what you say?
Regards M
Ps. sorry for my English |

Danfen Fenix
Council Of Internal War The Paganism Alliance
96
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 11:35:00 -
[2] - Quote
Instead of blocking it due to lock etc, you may as well give the roll to one of the jammer modules. Then it's up to the fleet if they want to bring the ability to prevent it  |

TigerXtrm
Cadre Assault Force Initiative Mercenaries
41
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 11:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
People actually use the self destruct feature so they don't appear on a killboard? That's kind of pathetic, really  |

Cpt Pugwash
The Arrow Project CORE.
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 11:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
Self Desrtucting to prevent enemy getting loot or satisfaction of the kill etc is perfectly legitimate.
Petition CCP to give you a killmail even when a ship self destructs if you care so much about it but don't ask for a perfectly legit game device to me removed because you cannot live without your precious killmail.
Even Starfleet vessels have a self destruct mechanism and they are about as carebear as they come |

ElQuirko
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
728
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 11:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Did you get loot?
Did you get a wreck?
Just screenshot the fight, save it and quit whining. CISPA - Readin' your secret corptheft mails since 2012 |

Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1463
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 12:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
kill things faster The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |

Malacath Azaria
xX-Crusader-Xx
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 12:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Morganta wrote:kill things faster
|

Ituhata Saken
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
284
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 13:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Morganta wrote:kill things faster
But!
Quote:Thou shalt not kill
 You know what an answer is? It's a terminus -- an end. Answers are fine, but questions are where it's at. Questions bring us closer to understanding, -áthey can start a conversation or spark a revolution. So you might as well start asking... now.-á ~See you on the other side 6/6/12~ |

Ariel Dawn
F9X
757
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 13:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
You care way, way too much about killboards is the issue, not self-destructing. |

Nebula Terron
Wolf's in Sheep's Clothing
29
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 13:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Because of Killboard
Eve Online Forums: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. |
|

Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
1498
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 13:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP does not have an official killboard for a reason.
Because they know KBs are stupid.
So, if all you desperate *****'s could stop asking them to change their game to support third party applications, that would be just grand.
Thanks
Mr Epeen  There is no excuse beyond fatalistic self-indulgence and sheer laziness for doing nothing --á Iain Banks |

Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
561
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 13:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
It's another form of PvP OP, stop whimpering you lost. Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |

J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
462
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 13:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Self destructing must be extremely satisfactory if it extracts such tears from the OP This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |

Klown Walk
Fat People Lag IRL
94
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 13:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Can-¦t wait to be stuck somewhere until dt because they wont kill my pod and I can-¦t self destruct. |

Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1465
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 13:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Klown Walk wrote:Can-¦t wait to be stuck somewhere until dt because they wont kill my pod and I can-¦t self destruct.
or spend a few hours in a scrammed carrier while team B tries to round up enough DPS to finish you off 
The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1238
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 15:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Morganta wrote:Klown Walk wrote:Can-¦t wait to be stuck somewhere until dt because they wont kill my pod and I can-¦t self destruct. or spend a few hours in a scrammed carrier while team B tries to round up enough DPS to finish you off  I don't think anyone wants self destructs removed entirely, however two minute SDs for both rifters and wyverns makes little sense. SD timers should scale with ship size.
The fact that fights don't happen because people just self destruct is kind of sad, plus it just encourages blobbing. I know quite a few people who have just hit self destruct instead of crying for help or trying to get people to save them. I mean its just a carrier, you can grind out the ISK for a replacement in under a day, there is no real reason not to self destruct.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |

Delen Ormand
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 15:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:People actually use the self destruct feature so they don't appear on a killboard? That's kind of pathetic, really 
Let's face it, there are a lot of people who act like assholes in this game, can't really blame someone for wanting to deny them a kill.
|

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
376
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 15:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
No I think CCP should improve self destruct and make it an actual tactic. Self destruct should do damage to ships around it like a smart bomb except a lot bigger depending on the ship size.
I could care less if it is on a kill mail but if people want it I don't see any reason why not.
But definitely make a self destruct an actual tactic if need be. EVERYBODY KNOWS |

sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
203
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 15:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
Remove KMs. This will solve your [personal] problem. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |

clamslayer
Aliastra Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 15:52:00 -
[20] - Quote
Self destructing is a tactical choice and should not be removed or result in a kill mail. Being able to destroy your ship to deny your enemy loot, salvage, and killmail/intel is a valid tactic.
the only change that i could understand is the length of timer based on the size of the ship. also, the message that all players on grid see when one initiates self destruct should be removed and damage should be dealt to any other ship near an explosion from self destruct or combat. |
|

Private Pineapple
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
89
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 16:27:00 -
[21] - Quote
Morganta wrote:kill things faster
Zero risk, Great reward FW... yeah, FW needs to be balanced! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=119886
Support Damen Apol's FW proposal! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=119683 |

Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
66
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 16:57:00 -
[22] - Quote
Self destructing to avoid lossmails is kinda sad, but its been around in eve a long time, just deal with it. Its also a very good excuse to blob people who do it and rub their faces in it. |

Tarsus Zateki
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
587
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 17:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
The only thing self destruction effects is killboard wankery. The enemy ship still exploded, that's all that matters. You asked me once, what was in Room 101. I told you that you knew the answer already. Everyone knows it. The thing that is in Room 101 is the worst thing in the world. |

baltec1
1452
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 18:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
It still died |

Pink Marshmellow
Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost
29
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 19:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
The only real issue of self-destruct is that you receive insurance from it.
Remove insurance payment for self-destruct. That's the same as me blowing up my own car on purpose and receiving money for it. |

Alexa Coates
The Scope Gallente Federation
141
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:06:00 -
[26] - Quote
I just wish the self destruct button and eject button weren't so close to actually useful things like "ship name" and stuff. I've accidently hit them both more than once trying to do actual useful things. Love my Gallente Federation Navy ships! |

Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
58
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:08:00 -
[27] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:CCP does not have an official killboard for a reason. Because they know KBs are stupid. So, if all you desperate *****'s could stop asking them to change their game to support third party applications, that would be just grand. Thanks Mr Epeen 
http://community.eveonline.com/news/newsFromEve.asp?newsTitle=new-forum-rules-on-tuesday-july-12
As you can see per the new rules, personal attacks like what you just said above are no longer allowed. Please be nice to each other. Or they will ban you. |

Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
81
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Cpt Pugwash wrote:Self Desrtucting to prevent enemy getting loot or satisfaction of the kill etc is perfectly legitimate.
Petition CCP to give you a killmail even when a ship self destructs if you care so much about it but don't ask for a perfectly legit game device to me removed because you cannot live without your precious killmail.
Even Starfleet vessels have a self destruct mechanism and they are about as carebear as they come come from your **** alliance, no wonder |

Possum's Awesome
Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo
33
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 20:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Change: Still destroys modules, but gives KM.
The same people making comments about self destruct being a "legitimate tactic" and those saying "only KM whores care" are ignoring the fact that people who are raging hard enough to self destruct only do so to deny a KM to others.
Just fraps it, ship scan it, post a 'fake' KM with links to proof that the pilot was a whiney skunt. Possum's Awesome : Awesome Possum
Unjustly accused and condemned for his crimes. |

Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
58
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 21:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
Apolyon I wrote:come from your **** alliance, no wonder
Again, please note:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/newsFromEve.asp?newsTitle=new-forum-rules-on-tuesday-july-12
No personal attacks. Be nice. |
|

Masikari
State War Academy Caldari State
35
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 23:37:00 -
[31] - Quote
I always lol at KB-Humpers. Who frigging cares? SD is a legitimate tactic, get over it. Want the KM? Bring more DPS! Honestly, fail PvPers are the biggest whiners of them all. |

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1239
|
Posted - 2012.06.16 23:43:00 -
[32] - Quote
Masikari wrote:I always lol at KB-Humpers. Who frigging cares? SD is a legitimate tactic, get over it. Want the KM? Bring more DPS! Honestly, fail PvPers are the biggest whiners of them all. Let's be honest, the people self destructing are the KB humpers.
I wouldn't even care if the aggressors didn't show up on the kill mail, as long as it dropped loot and generated some sort of publicly viewable entry that the pilot self destructed.
A lot of people fight for loot and profit, not for kill mails. Those of us that fight for profit generally fight solo or in small gangs, and so even when dropping dreads will not always have the DPS to beat a 2 minute timer. Against capitals the two minute timer is just an annoying reason to not bother engaging.
I also find it silly that people can hide how terribad they are, I know people who have self destructed multiple capitals due to semi-AFK anomaly grinding. They really shouldn't be able to hide that they are that bad at Eve. (I also know two people that hot drop two prometheus fit carriers a lot, and they have self destructed when tackled by gangs with logi on a number of occasions.)
But most of all, an artificial two minute timer on capital fleet fights is just silly. It encourages people to bring enough DPS to win in minutes, and as a result means that in almost no circumstances will any target ever have time for reinforcements. If fleets could win in 5 minutes, maybe people wouldn't rely on blobbing so much and victims of ganks may have time to get a little help.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |

Bane Nucleus
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
73
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 00:25:00 -
[33] - Quote
Pink Marshmellow wrote:The only real issue of self-destruct is that you receive insurance from it.
Remove insurance payment for self-destruct. That's the same as me blowing up my own car on purpose and receiving money for it.
This guy has it right. Alliance Diplomat, Recruiter |

Jimmy Gunsmythe
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 00:41:00 -
[34] - Quote
MrYogi Lee wrote:Hello
Self-destruction, sometimes useful thing, but not during a fight!
Needs to be changed to stop the paranoia that exists in EVE, where the fleet carriers or dreds, doing self-destruction and the KB is perhaps 1-2 ships, but in fact fell in 10 times as much.
In most cases, when a small gang, attack carriers or dreads it ends in self-destruction, because in 2 minutes are not able to kill him.
This spoils the statistics KB, but also causes doubt in the sense of the game among players.
My proposals for changes:
When the vessel is lock target, or in a bubble, it is not possible to attach self-destruction. If self-destruction was included earlier, in the meantime, the ship will be lock target or in a bubble, self-destruction turns off.
Significantly improved by all the fun.
Another option is when the ship will receive some DMG and it will activate the self-destruction is the killboard (auto api)
CCP what you say?
Regards M
Ps. sorry for my English
Dear CCP,
We didn't bring enough DPS to destroy a ship before the self-destruct sequence expired. As this adversely affects our KB stats, please remove self-destructing during combat, even if there is no other reason to have it in game. It's far too hard to destroy a ship in this time and we need this aspect of the game to be easier. Our KB will thank you!
Sincerely,
OP. A good predator knows how to live in balance with his prey, lest he follow them into oblivion. |

Skorpynekomimi
222
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 00:50:00 -
[35] - Quote
The problem is not self destruct. It is the obsession with killmails. |

Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
91
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 02:57:00 -
[36] - Quote
What if it produced a killmail with no intel but a stamp "self-destructed", a wreck with no salvage or loot.
"A good compromise leaves everybody mad" -Calvin and Hobbes |

Large Collidable Object
morons.
1567
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 03:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
People self destructing to avoid killmails are just as pathetic as people whining about them.
The former does it to avoid meaningless e-peen shrinking, the latter whines due to lack of meaningless e-peen growth...
Just remove killmails - problem solved. You know... morons. |

Jonni Favorite
Sundown Logistics SpaceMonkey's Alliance
100
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 03:32:00 -
[38] - Quote
Working as intended. Stop worrying about some stats website and play the game.. |

Makkal Hanaya
Drakenburg
127
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 03:39:00 -
[39] - Quote
Cpt Pugwash wrote:Self Desrtucting to prevent enemy getting loot or satisfaction of the kill etc is perfectly legitimate. This. It may be petty, but I'll blow myself up before I let you have my stuff. although my eyes were open they might have just as well've been closed
|

Trollin
93
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 05:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
self destruct timer should be alterable by the pilot commanding the ship
If they want it to be 3 seconds, its their ship... You are your own worst enemy. |
|

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1615
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 05:45:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cpt Pugwash wrote:Self Desrtucting to prevent enemy getting loot or satisfaction of the kill etc is perfectly legitimate.
Petition CCP to give you a killmail even when a ship self destructs if you care so much about it but don't ask for a perfectly legit game device to me removed because you cannot live without your precious killmail.
Even Starfleet vessels have a self destruct mechanism and they are about as carebear as they come
Every few months we get a thread like this.
How about this: why can a T1 frigate have the ability to warp scramble a cap ship?
But that's not good enough. Now they want to be able to destroy it with subcaps faster than it can SD and for what?
A killboard.
I think SD should have a timer that is settable by the pilot. From "Right F**king Now!" to as long as you want.
Edit: SD should also do area of effect damage. So when the subcaps - and especially some ghetto tackler T1 rig that should never have had enough power to scramble a ship millions of times its mass - are too close they get popped. That plus a variable SD is going to make "staying inside the turret speed" and "staying outside the blast range" an interesting facet to these kinds of engagements. |

Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
500
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 05:57:00 -
[42] - Quote
Morganta wrote:kill things faster
|

hedge betts Shiyurida
State War Academy Caldari State
27
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 06:03:00 -
[43] - Quote
Or how about get rid of kill boards, and stop messing with the game Cup the balls, and work the shaft |

Ohanka
Aggressive Narcissists
112
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 06:05:00 -
[44] - Quote
Why do killmails even really matter. |

Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1534
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 06:08:00 -
[45] - Quote
PvP is not supposed to be fair. Gank it in 2 mins or cry us a river
~deal with it~ |

Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
384
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 06:35:00 -
[46] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Masikari wrote:I always lol at KB-Humpers. Who frigging cares? SD is a legitimate tactic, get over it. Want the KM? Bring more DPS! Honestly, fail PvPers are the biggest whiners of them all. Let's be honest, the people self destructing are the KB humpers.
Exactly!
Also all those posters saying you should "kill faster" are in fact saying you should zerg/blob more.
I think as soon as you set self destruct your pod should eject from the ship, and Code Breaker mods can turn off self destruct and open the ship for boarding. It would make sense, it would be fun, it would be balanced!
|

Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
888
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 07:14:00 -
[47] - Quote
Suggested changes to SD mechanics:
- no insurance - destroys pod - not possible inside a POS force field - timer is 10 minutes under aggression (2min without)
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |

Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
81
|
Posted - 2012.06.17 08:10:00 -
[48] - Quote
Jonni Favorite wrote:Working as intended. Stop worrying about some stats website and play the game.. then why do ppl SD if they don't worry about stats??
tbh, don't bring the loot in as excuse, loot is irrelevant
I risk my ship, you risk your ship. I win for some reasons and I can't have anything to acknowledge my work.
imagine you went to college for 4 yrs and don't any certificate to put into your resume
I don't care about either km or loot. I want proof that this guy lost ship to me and shamelessly selfdestruct it |

Lord Zim
848
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 07:39:00 -
[49] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:I don't think anyone wants self destructs removed entirely, however two minute SDs for both rifters and wyverns makes little sense. SD timers should scale with ship size. Actually, it doesn't much matter, since the self-destruct is probably something which is facilitated through mechanisms which is put in the ship during manufacture, so once it goes off, everything goes off.
Now if we were to argue that the explosion itself should take longer, then I agree. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8104
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 07:46:00 -
[50] - Quote
Ohanka wrote:Why do killmails even really matter. They provide intel. Self-destructing to deny someone a killmail also denies them the intel. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
|

James Arget
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
14
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 07:56:00 -
[51] - Quote
Let's be honest here; CCP is moving toward "official" killboards and stats. The Mercenary Marketplace is directly tied to the idea that you can see how well a corporation performs in PVP, both in ships killed and ISK destroyed. Right now, it's limited mostly to war decs, but the trend is headed toward the quintessential killboard being canon.
The argument of "kill faster" simply is not an option under many, if not most circumstances. When dealing with ships in the same general class, 2 minutes is usually enough. When dealing with ships of drastically different classes (supercaps vs. capitals, or capitals vs. subcaps), 2 minutes is a very, very short timeline.
It's pointless to act as though killboards do not matter, because they do to the community at large. Supercapital logoff was balanced, self-destruct is next in line. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8106
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 08:01:00 -
[52] - Quote
James Arget wrote:Supercapital logoff was balanced, self-destruct is next in line. The difference being that logging off was used to ensure you didn't explode; self-destruction is used to ensure that you doGǪ
The GÇ£balanceGÇ¥ argument kind of loses its edge when the result of the action is exactly what the opponent wants: that the ship goes poof. The GÇ£kill fasterGÇ¥ argument might not work, but you still get the kill GÇö what being fast enough buys you is information that you might not have otherwise gleamed. It seems like a reasonable reward for being efficient.
That said, yes, SDs could probably be made to provide kill mails just to prove the ship loss, but such a mail should also still be intel-free.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|

Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
896
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 08:08:00 -
[53] - Quote
Tippia wrote: That said, yes, SDs could probably be made to provide kill mails just to prove the ship loss, but such a mail should also still be intel-free.
That's a good suggestion - just the ship and total value without specific module info.
Denying intel is a legit reason, but currently SD is performed to prevent the lossmail for affecting killboards, ie. to twist reality. Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |

Lord Zim
848
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 08:11:00 -
[54] - Quote
Tippia wrote:That said, yes, SDs could probably be made to provide kill mails just to prove the ship loss, but such a mail should also still be intel-free. I don't see why this should be a point, but to be honest I don't care enough to argue neither for nor against it. The only reason I'd like to see SD create any killmails at all is to discourage e-honoure K/D whores like some NCdot guys I've witnessed first-hand who selfdestructed their drakes because they got trapped in a system, and I'm not joking when they unironically got all cocky about how we weren't "going to get a killmail out of it at least!". |

Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1540
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 13:28:00 -
[55] - Quote
and for those who feel SD has no practical value beyond denying the winner a KM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuttling The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |

Gerald Taric
68
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:11:00 -
[56] - Quote
"I did not got my killmail, *whine*"
Are this the highly desired so called "sweet tears"?
Cpt Pugwash wrote:Self Desrtucting to prevent enemy getting loot or satisfaction of the kill etc is perfectly legitimate. This.
And some things have to be added:
1.) Obviously the attacker was not able to kill the victim within the self-destruct-timer-count-down. 2.) If the victim decides to surrender, although he might be able to defeat himself, he looses the ship definitely. 3.) It is possible, that the victim decided to take the surprise at the enemy to gain 1-2 seconds in order to escape with his pod?
Anyway: One goal has been reached: To harm the enemy. So what?
|

Lord Zim
849
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:14:00 -
[57] - Quote
If someone would rather selfdestruct their ship than go into a fight and get a lossmail and ruin their precious kill/death ratio, then it's a mechanic which needs looking at. vOv |

Shareen Dainer
Deviance Inc
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:19:00 -
[58] - Quote
Pink Marshmellow wrote:The only real issue of self-destruct is that you receive insurance from it.
Remove insurance payment for self-destruct. That's the same as me blowing up my own car on purpose and receiving money for it.
K, Lets also remove insurance payouts for losses taken:
While at war. In low sec. In null sec. In wormholes. In missions. In incursions.
After all, that's the same as driving around in a warzone and receiving money for your wrecked car.
Agreed? No?
Didn't think so. |

Lord Zim
849
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:24:00 -
[59] - Quote
I see no problems with removing insurance payouts altogether. vOv |

Shareen Dainer
Deviance Inc
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:26:00 -
[60] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:I see no problems with removing insurance payouts altogether. vOv
Fair enough, I'm ok with that, I just find these "remove X cause in real life Y is....." arguments idiotic when discussing game balance :P |
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
252
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 14:56:00 -
[61] - Quote
Roime wrote:Suggested changes to SD mechanics:
- no insurance - destroys pod - not possible inside a POS force field - timer is 10 minutes under aggression (2min without)
Why not possible in a pos? That seems to be a poor rule design with only the goal of benefiting killboards with out considering other uses of SD.
Also, no insurance and destroys pods can limit people too.
For example, I am in a class 2 wormhole. My corp built a dread or carrier there. We can't get it out, so opt to destroy it to get sije isk out of the loss. Basically, you are saying we must kill our own ship or let sleepers do it. Or worse, I infiltrated a wormhole corp. I popped the other members, so the hole is mine. I can't fly all the ships out, but can pilot them all. O should be able to self destruct each ship, claiming the insurance.
Sorry, but it seems in yout zeal to keep kills on killboards, you are denying people other uses of a feature.
How about this, simple solution that would satisfy all parties....
Rework self destruction such that when the timer expires, it delivers a huge amount of damage to the ship. This woukd be, combat damage, caused by the ship/pilot to iteslf, weapon listed as self destruct, final blow goes to pilot. This would generate a killmail without reducing the functionality. |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1089
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 15:00:00 -
[62] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Rework self destruction such that when the timer expires, it delivers a huge amount of damage to the ship. This woukd be, combat damage, caused by the ship/pilot to iteslf, weapon listed as self destruct, final blow goes to pilot. This would generate a killmail without reducing the functionality. So.. you'd get your own killmail? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Dusenman
Black Lance RAZOR Alliance
8
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 15:23:00 -
[63] - Quote
Malacath Azaria wrote:Morganta wrote:kill things faster
GM Homonoia: In other words; feel free to use the tactic, but don't be an utter and total ***. |

Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
253
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 15:32:00 -
[64] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Rework self destruction such that when the timer expires, it delivers a huge amount of damage to the ship. This woukd be, combat damage, caused by the ship/pilot to iteslf, weapon listed as self destruct, final blow goes to pilot. This would generate a killmail without reducing the functionality. So.. you'd get your own killmail?
Yup, and it would most likely get pulled to the killboards and posted for others to see.
No different than a bomber running into their own bomb. Plus, anyone who did damage/used an offensive mod on the self destructing ship would also be on the killmail. |

Doc Mulder
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 16:44:00 -
[65] - Quote
Apolyon I wrote:then why do ppl SD if they don't worry about stats?? Because it pisses people off...
Quote:... I can't have anything to acknowledge my work. Work?
Quote:imagine you went to college for 4 yrs and don't any certificate to put into your resume Right, like that even makes sense...
Quote:I don't care about either km or loot. I want proof that this guy lost ship to me and shamelessly selfdestruct it I can SD with my shame intact...
|

Jypsie
Wandering Star Enterprises
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 17:03:00 -
[66] - Quote
Ariel Dawn wrote:You care way, way too much about killboards is the issue, not self-destructing.
I agree, kill boards are garbage. |

Jypsie
Wandering Star Enterprises
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 17:10:00 -
[67] - Quote
Roime wrote:Suggested changes to SD mechanics:
- no insurance - destroys pod - not possible inside a POS force field - timer is 10 minutes under aggression (2min without)
How about we ignore that, leave as is, and adjust the timer to be 30 seconds for frigate/dessie, 60 seconds for cruiser/bc, and 120 seconds for bs and larger. Speeds up gameplay for everyone.
Edit: I do agree with no insurance on SD though. |

Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
84
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 17:35:00 -
[68] - Quote
Doc Mulder wrote:Apolyon I wrote:then why do ppl SD if they don't worry about stats?? Because it pisses people off... if people really dont care about killboard, how about SD generated killmail when you're aggressed. only change that, everything stays the same, as I said I dont give a f about loot
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Lord Zim
859
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:02:00 -
[69] - Quote
Remove all killmails. You want intel, check someone's wreck. |

Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
154
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:09:00 -
[70] - Quote
clamslayer wrote:Self destructing is a tactical choice and should not be removed or result in a kill mail. Being able to destroy your ship to deny your enemy loot, salvage, and killmail/intel is a valid tactic.
the only change that i could understand is the length of timer based on the size of the ship. also, the message that all players on grid see when one initiates self destruct should be removed and damage should be dealt to any other ship near an explosion from self destruct or combat.
Edit: remove insurance pay out as well This exactly. The problem is that you need a pretty large fleet to kill a capital ship within 2 minutes. But the 2 minute timer isn't tactically useful at all for anything smaller than a cruiser. And what about supercapitals? Do they ever fail to self destruct? I think the timer should be 30 seconds for frigates, 1 minute for cruisers, 2 minutes for battleships, 5 minutes for carriers and dreadnoughts, and 10 minutes for supercapitals.
Also, I'm fairly certain self-destructed ships do not pay insurance. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
254
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:14:00 -
[71] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Remove all killmails. You want intel, check someone's wreck.
Given the recent change where posting a killmail is a drag and drop feature, coupled with the wardec changes, I doubt we will lose killmails. They are a fun part of pvp. Yes people take them and stats far too seriously, but don't penalize us all for a few die hards. That's like saying get rid of all sports statistics, people should watch the games and record their own.
|

TweedIe Dum
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:59:00 -
[72] - Quote
Simetraz wrote:No I think CCP should improve self destruct and make it an actual tactic. Self destruct should do damage to ships around it like a smart bomb except a lot bigger depending on the ship size.
I could care less if it is on a kill mail but if people want it I don't see any reason why not.
But definitely make a self destruct an actual tactic if need be.
This +100
Always found it wierd selfdestruct did **** all. Ramming should also be a viable tactic |

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1325
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 21:58:00 -
[73] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Remove all killmails. You want intel, check someone's wreck. I honestly don't care if KMs are removed, but I think it's silly that people self destruct to avoid them.
I've seen entire fleets self destruct before to avoid KB losses, instead of trying to take down as much of the enemy with them as possible. I also wouldn't mind seeing some stats from CCP Diagoras on the number of supers that have self destructed in the past.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |

FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1791
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 22:02:00 -
[74] - Quote
I'm pretty sure CCP has stated that they intend to add self-destruct killmails in the future. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1090
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 22:03:00 -
[75] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote: I also wouldn't mind seeing some stats from CCP Diagoras on the number of supers that have self destructed in the past. Ah, self destructing supercapitals. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Simi Kusoni
HelloKittyFanclub
1325
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 22:29:00 -
[76] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:I'm pretty sure CCP has stated that they intend to add self-destruct killmails in the future. Yeah, it was soundwave IIRC. But that was around a year ago.
I think it was also around 3-4 years ago that this came up in the CSM, and they unanimously voted through their support for changes to SD mechanics.
I understand keeping it as a way to annoy those attacking, and to prevent those "I'ma hold you in space" kind of tactics, but it should at least always show a loss mail and probably shouldn't pay insurance. Encouraging people to not fight back is silly.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF |

Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
84
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 00:26:00 -
[77] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Remove all killmails. You want intel, check someone's wreck. I honestly don't care if KMs are removed, but I think it's silly that people self destruct to avoid them. I've seen entire fleets self destruct before to avoid KB losses, instead of trying to take down as much of the enemy with them as possible. I also wouldn't mind seeing some stats from CCP Diagoras on the number of supers that have self destructed in the past. people are too afraid to admit their failure |

FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1794
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 13:35:00 -
[78] - Quote
Simi Kusoni wrote:I understand keeping it as a way to annoy those attacking, and to prevent those "I'ma hold you in space" kind of tactics, but it should at least always show a loss mail and probably shouldn't pay insurance. Encouraging people to not fight back is silly.
Self destruct denies loot. That's reason enough to use it; you can at least deny them profit from the kill. But there should still be a killmail. If you suicide gank someone and I'm able to shoot you before Concord finishes the job, I get a killmail for that.
As for insurance...I go back and forth on that. If you're self-destructing to prevent loot from falling into the hands of pirates, why wouldn't insurance still pay for your ship? It was doomed anyway, and you at least did your part in making piracy less profitable. I think I'd like to see a system where if you self destruct while under attack, it generates a killmail for the attacker and pays insurance. Other self-destructs (such as to get out of a wormhole) would not pay insurance. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |

Possum's Awesome
Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo
34
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 22:24:00 -
[79] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Just remove killmails - problem solved.
I'd prefer not to turn TQ into Serenity, forum PVP is boring. Thanks. Possum's Awesome : Awesome Possum
Unjustly accused and condemned for his crimes. |

Mons Pubis Giganticus
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 00:46:00 -
[80] - Quote
never |
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