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June li
   |
Posted - 2004.11.10 13:38:00 -
[61]
Edited by: June li on 10/11/2004 14:01:50
To everyone who does not understand why macro's are bad:
I have played a few MMORPG's where macro's are commonly used. The problem with this is that these companies or individuals that are making all this in game money to sell for real money are also rising the prices of rare items.
You see, they rake up ridiculous amounts of money, a lot of people buy it, and people can start pricing their rarer items higher because many more people can pay those prices. That may sound sort of ridiculous but that's simply how i have witnessed it work.
This means the legitamate players are not only disadvantaged to the people who buy this online currency because they have less money to time ratio at any equal point in the game, but they also have to suffer from these price inflations which they did not cause and could mostly not help in stopping.
Some people can't afford to buy online currencies with real money, so it's very unfair to say "well everyone has the choice to buy it" which i have heard quite a few say before. It shouldn't be a game of who has a bigger credit card limit, it should be fair to all, rich or poor. Everyone should get their shot.
Obviously people who choose to devote more time to the game usually are richer than the average joe - but that goes without saying. It's part of any game, you spend time to progress (NOT MONEY) and most importantly it doesn't ruin the economy.
I know of one particular game (which i won't mention the name of because i'm not sure it's allowed in these forums) which has been controlled so much by macro's / online sellers that it has become extremely difficult to get by without buying the game currency online yourself.
The online sellers have full control over the in game market, everything costs a fortune, and the price inflation means legitamate players are more often that not struggling desperately to get by with even the most mediocre setups. I'd hate to see that happen to EVE, although because EVE's market is semi NPC controlled, it is a lot less susceptible to this kind of thing.
-------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
"It's funny the way most people love death. Once you're dead you're made for life.
You have to die before they think you're worth anything." - Jimi Hendrix |
June li
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 13:38:00 -
[62]
Edited by: June li on 10/11/2004 14:01:50
To everyone who does not understand why macro's are bad:
I have played a few MMORPG's where macro's are commonly used. The problem with this is that these companies or individuals that are making all this in game money to sell for real money are also rising the prices of rare items.
You see, they rake up ridiculous amounts of money, a lot of people buy it, and people can start pricing their rarer items higher because many more people can pay those prices. That may sound sort of ridiculous but that's simply how i have witnessed it work.
This means the legitamate players are not only disadvantaged to the people who buy this online currency because they have less money to time ratio at any equal point in the game, but they also have to suffer from these price inflations which they did not cause and could mostly not help in stopping.
Some people can't afford to buy online currencies with real money, so it's very unfair to say "well everyone has the choice to buy it" which i have heard quite a few say before. It shouldn't be a game of who has a bigger credit card limit, it should be fair to all, rich or poor. Everyone should get their shot.
Obviously people who choose to devote more time to the game usually are richer than the average joe - but that goes without saying. It's part of any game, you spend time to progress (NOT MONEY) and most importantly it doesn't ruin the economy.
I know of one particular game (which i won't mention the name of because i'm not sure it's allowed in these forums) which has been controlled so much by macro's / online sellers that it has become extremely difficult to get by without buying the game currency online yourself.
The online sellers have full control over the in game market, everything costs a fortune, and the price inflation means legitamate players are more often that not struggling desperately to get by with even the most mediocre setups. I'd hate to see that happen to EVE, although because EVE's market is semi NPC controlled, it is a lot less susceptible to this kind of thing.
-------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
"It's funny the way most people love death. Once you're dead you're made for life.
You have to die before they think you're worth anything." - Jimi Hendrix |
Karch
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 13:38:00 -
[63]
 Originally by: Eris Discordia
...steal their ore...
---
Was it good for you? |
Karch
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 13:38:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Eris Discordia
...steal their ore...
---
Was it good for you? |
Thanit
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 13:59:00 -
[65]
Solution: make life hard on macro users by introducing enough risk into high sec mining so make attended play a requirement.
ergo: more npc rats.
If this is not a succesfull way fo dealing with it, remove all ore from the safe 1.0 belts except for a special newbie ore that can only be sold for isk to agents. Tag it with the name of the persona mining it in your database and prevent all non-noob char mined ore from being sold.
I've seen professional macro mining ruin the economy of an Ultima Online shard in the past, driving players from it in bundles. Do NOT let this happen to Eve.
|
Thanit
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 13:59:00 -
[66]
Solution: make life hard on macro users by introducing enough risk into high sec mining so make attended play a requirement.
ergo: more npc rats.
If this is not a succesfull way fo dealing with it, remove all ore from the safe 1.0 belts except for a special newbie ore that can only be sold for isk to agents. Tag it with the name of the persona mining it in your database and prevent all non-noob char mined ore from being sold.
I've seen professional macro mining ruin the economy of an Ultima Online shard in the past, driving players from it in bundles. Do NOT let this happen to Eve.
|
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 14:12:00 -
[67]
what about rats in 0.9 and 1.0 space? like really weak rats that would have no hope of killing any player at the keyboard. but would (eventually) kill someone who was AFK ? newbs need to learn combat, too. so why not some simple rogue drones that can get killed real easy to counter macro miners?
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 14:12:00 -
[68]
what about rats in 0.9 and 1.0 space? like really weak rats that would have no hope of killing any player at the keyboard. but would (eventually) kill someone who was AFK ? newbs need to learn combat, too. so why not some simple rogue drones that can get killed real easy to counter macro miners?
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
Heinky
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 14:13:00 -
[69]
http://www.mysupersales.com/ ???
This cant be legal can it ?
But since nothing has been done yet about sites like this i guess not eyy
|
Heinky
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 14:13:00 -
[70]
http://www.mysupersales.com/ ???
This cant be legal can it ?
But since nothing has been done yet about sites like this i guess not eyy
|
Rod Blaine
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 14:16:00 -
[71]
Originally by: flummox
what about rats in 0.9 and 1.0 space? like really weak rats that would have no hope of killing any player at the keyboard. but would (eventually) kill someone who was AFK ? newbs need to learn combat, too. so why not some simple rogue drones that can get killed real easy to counter macro miners?
passive shield recharge prevent really weak rats from killing apocs
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Rod Blaine
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 14:16:00 -
[72]
Originally by: flummox
what about rats in 0.9 and 1.0 space? like really weak rats that would have no hope of killing any player at the keyboard. but would (eventually) kill someone who was AFK ? newbs need to learn combat, too. so why not some simple rogue drones that can get killed real easy to counter macro miners?
passive shield recharge prevent really weak rats from killing apocs
_______________________________________________
Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know.
Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online
Solutions to your issues. |
Nimrodz2
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 14:36:00 -
[73]
What about specialized Anti-Macro drones that target players not moving and have a exponential damage increase ?
"But... Invader's blood marches through my veins, like giant radioactive rubber pants! The pants command me! Do not ignore my veins!" |
Nimrodz2
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 14:36:00 -
[74]
What about specialized Anti-Macro drones that target players not moving and have a exponential damage increase ?
"But... Invader's blood marches through my veins, like giant radioactive rubber pants! The pants command me! Do not ignore my veins!" |
Hans Roaming
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 14:41:00 -
[75]
Originally by: flummox
what about rats in 0.9 and 1.0 space? like really weak rats that would have no hope of killing any player at the keyboard. but would (eventually) kill someone who was AFK ? newbs need to learn combat, too. so why not some simple rogue drones that can get killed real easy to counter macro miners?
Steal thier ore, if everyone did it then it would make it less cost effective to macro mine for real life economic gain.
WTS: Male, 37, single, can fly starships, build rockets and dance Salsa.
WTB: Female, plays eve, lives near London UK |
Hans Roaming
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 14:41:00 -
[76]
Originally by: flummox
what about rats in 0.9 and 1.0 space? like really weak rats that would have no hope of killing any player at the keyboard. but would (eventually) kill someone who was AFK ? newbs need to learn combat, too. so why not some simple rogue drones that can get killed real easy to counter macro miners?
Steal thier ore, if everyone did it then it would make it less cost effective to macro mine for real life economic gain.
WTS: Male, 37, single, can fly starships, build rockets and dance Salsa.
WTB: Female, plays eve, lives near London UK |
Dezzyb0y
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 14:58:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
Edited by: Jebidus Skari on 09/11/2004 22:53:54
Is macro mining REALLY that bad??
It's not as if the value of the ore increases by using the program or that you mine more per minute, it just removes the need to strain your wrist by repeating the same mundane movement every few seconds. Even the advantage of mining while you sleep is a fairly weak arguement, I can't see how it unbalances the game that much.
If some fool wants to waste money by creating another account to macro then, so what? it's their money to waste.
If I've missed a point against this practice plz tell me. I'm not a miner so perhaps I'm missing something.
Its cheating...
-----------------------
K4rls 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Republic Fleet Testing Facilities, wrecking for 1395.9 damage
|
Dezzyb0y
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 14:58:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Jebidus Skari
Edited by: Jebidus Skari on 09/11/2004 22:53:54
Is macro mining REALLY that bad??
It's not as if the value of the ore increases by using the program or that you mine more per minute, it just removes the need to strain your wrist by repeating the same mundane movement every few seconds. Even the advantage of mining while you sleep is a fairly weak arguement, I can't see how it unbalances the game that much.
If some fool wants to waste money by creating another account to macro then, so what? it's their money to waste.
If I've missed a point against this practice plz tell me. I'm not a miner so perhaps I'm missing something.
Its cheating...
-----------------------
K4rls 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Republic Fleet Testing Facilities, wrecking for 1395.9 damage
|
Nervar
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 15:02:00 -
[79]
Im blow out of my mind, actually people inn here that supports macro miners.
CCP crush them now before they grow out of proportion
------------------------------------------------->
What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
|
Nervar
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 15:02:00 -
[80]
Im blow out of my mind, actually people inn here that supports macro miners.
CCP crush them now before they grow out of proportion
------------------------------------------------->
What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
|
Eris Discordia
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 15:19:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Karch
Originally by: Eris Discordia
...steal their ore...
There is a reason why I moderate this forum often 
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage
Mail [email protected] if you have any questions. |
Eris Discordia
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 15:19:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Karch
Originally by: Eris Discordia
...steal their ore...
There is a reason why I moderate this forum often
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage
Mail [email protected] if you have any questions. |
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 15:47:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Originally by: flummox
what about rats in 0.9 and 1.0 space? like really weak rats that would have no hope of killing any player at the keyboard. but would (eventually) kill someone who was AFK ? newbs need to learn combat, too. so why not some simple rogue drones that can get killed real easy to counter macro miners?
passive shield recharge prevent really weak rats from killing apocs
yeah... hmmmmmmm? what about "newb levels of roids" or some other newbie setup. what about the removal of all belts in at least 1.0 systems and perhaps CONCORD would start policing the belts? maybe use the new warpgate technology to access the roid fields and you can use the ship size restrictions. no newb is in a BS, or even cruiser for that matter. there have got to be better ways to have newbie mining than just leaving a belt open in 1.0 systems. perhaps some of the new mechanics in Exodus will help the Dev's finally squash this...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 15:47:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Rod Blaine
Originally by: flummox
what about rats in 0.9 and 1.0 space? like really weak rats that would have no hope of killing any player at the keyboard. but would (eventually) kill someone who was AFK ? newbs need to learn combat, too. so why not some simple rogue drones that can get killed real easy to counter macro miners?
passive shield recharge prevent really weak rats from killing apocs
yeah... hmmmmmmm? what about "newb levels of roids" or some other newbie setup. what about the removal of all belts in at least 1.0 systems and perhaps CONCORD would start policing the belts? maybe use the new warpgate technology to access the roid fields and you can use the ship size restrictions. no newb is in a BS, or even cruiser for that matter. there have got to be better ways to have newbie mining than just leaving a belt open in 1.0 systems. perhaps some of the new mechanics in Exodus will help the Dev's finally squash this...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
Kitty Claw
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 16:07:00 -
[85]
i have petitioned.
my petition goes through several messages , and GM replies.
each time i come across a new group of these cheaters another
messaeg is added to the petition.
bans dont seem to work well against an army of alts  |
Kitty Claw
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 16:07:00 -
[86]
i have petitioned.
my petition goes through several messages , and GM replies.
each time i come across a new group of these cheaters another
messaeg is added to the petition.
bans dont seem to work well against an army of alts |
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 16:20:00 -
[87]
the idea is to stop the macros. not ban people after the fact. here are a few ideas to stop macroers:
(after making a list of things, it all kinda came back to removing "normal" roid belts from 1.0 (and maybe 0.9) systems. or regulating ships or mining lasers somehow. but it still came back to one major theme, which follows.)
Use new warpgates to access belts in 1.0/0.9 systems. This opens up other possibilities as well:
- Ship size restriction.
- "Pass" or license mining only; perhaps from Tutorial Agent.
- Mining Laser restriction(s).
- Jettison Can restriction(s).
- Change the roids around. More, smaller roids. Makes for a headache when trying to code a macro.
RP aspects are pretty easy to figure out. Just have CONCORD step in and do their thing...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
flummox
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 16:20:00 -
[88]
the idea is to stop the macros. not ban people after the fact. here are a few ideas to stop macroers:
(after making a list of things, it all kinda came back to removing "normal" roid belts from 1.0 (and maybe 0.9) systems. or regulating ships or mining lasers somehow. but it still came back to one major theme, which follows.)
Use new warpgates to access belts in 1.0/0.9 systems. This opens up other possibilities as well:
- Ship size restriction.
- "Pass" or license mining only; perhaps from Tutorial Agent.
- Mining Laser restriction(s).
- Jettison Can restriction(s).
- Change the roids around. More, smaller roids. Makes for a headache when trying to code a macro.
RP aspects are pretty easy to figure out. Just have CONCORD step in and do their thing...
there is a fine, but dissasterous line between a fart and a shart. i suggest you make sure which side you want to be on... |
L'Kor
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 17:25:00 -
[89]
Edited by: L'Kor on 10/11/2004 17:30:25
In my opinion restricting access to 0.9/1.0 security systems/belts is no solution.
Eve is great because it offers endless possibilities. Constricting would not help to end people using macros but it would lessen the fun of the players who don't utilize them.
Keeping players informing the customer support about these people is the most effective option.
|
L'Kor
|
Posted - 2004.11.10 17:25:00 -
[90]
Edited by: L'Kor on 10/11/2004 17:30:25
In my opinion restricting access to 0.9/1.0 security systems/belts is no solution.
Eve is great because it offers endless possibilities. Constricting would not help to end people using macros but it would lessen the fun of the players who don't utilize them.
Keeping players informing the customer support about these people is the most effective option.
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