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steveid Helljumpers	Posted - 2009.12.03 00:55:00 - [1] Quote: Pirate Detection Arrays Each level of this upgrade gives you four anomalies per level, each of which re-spawns instantly upon completion. This mean that at Level 5 you are guaranteed to have twenty anomalies at all times in a system. These are basically dungeons which spawn waves of NPC's for you to happily shoot. The top level anomalies in terms of ISK per hour are among some of the most profitable content in the game. These anomalies are awesome because there is a constant supply of them and there are no skill requirements to scan them down. They can be found by anyone using the onboard scanner with a 100% success rate. Basically, if you are in a system that's small enough to be covered by one probe, you will get the full list of available sites instantly and you can warp to them. These anomalies also have a percentage chance to spawn NPC faction commanders, as well as escalate to other dungeons. Let me give you a hypothetical. An alliance has 120 active commited people. They split that into 5 groups of 20 combat fit ships, 1 group of 10 salvagers and 1 group of ten looters. They then warp a group of 20 to an anomaly, pretty much instapop it while the backup fleets loot and salvage. As they do this another site respawns, rinse, repeat. They can do this all day, every day. This is bigger than fixed 10/10 complex's. Its the equivalent of an unquenchable faucet of isk that the wore work you put it the more money you get out. Its giving 0.0 alliances level 4 missions without needing to move systems that instarespawn when your done and drop faction loot. Its a BIG problem. Inappropriate signature removed. Zymurgist
ViRUS Pottage THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2009.12.03 00:58:00 - [2] And the people safe in 1.0 making pretty much the same isn't a problem? ___________ Originally by: CCP Taera May I have your stuff?
Salmeria GoonFleet	Posted - 2009.12.03 00:59:00 - [3] Its not like they need to defend that isk faucet??
steveid Helljumpers	Posted - 2009.12.03 01:04:00 - [4] They needed to defend 10/10 complex's and they were a problem. And the difference between this and missions is travel time. Travel time increases mission completion time considerably for groups of mission runners. Inappropriate signature removed. Zymurgist
Mr Ignitious Helljumpers	Posted - 2009.12.03 01:09:00 - [5] A lot of isk is entering the system... However I doubt any alliance is going to coordinate anomaly raids within themselves, anomalies will be done by individuals. In addition there has always been a fairly large problem with lvl 4's in high sec being too profitable for the safety provided. 0.0 is now competitive with high sec making it at least some what appealing to what IS the larger majority of players, carebears too scared to venture out there. I would personally hope this finally starts drawing people out of their holes, and off the teet of concord. And to give you an idea of how it is for most players that I've known: 0.0 isn't (wasn't) profitable for individuals, all the value of 0.0 was in the moons, only seen by alliance level personnel. An individual would have to rely on ratting (not as safe and not as profitable as lvl 4's in high sec, not to mention 1 system could barely support a single person). A lot of people I knew would have jump clones in high sec in their mission hub that they would use and have to grind through when they needed isk. It was not fun and it meant we were usually stuck in high sec in that jump clone for the next 24 hours so we could not participate in pvp. What it is turning into now - the "lvl 4's" have moved to 0.0. This means pilots will be more readily available to defend their space and will hopefully reduce the "grind" feeling from that aspect of pve. Additionally it will hopefully draw more pilots to 0.0 even if initially for pve which would evolve into a like for pvp. With more individual resources available it will encourage more participation and more targets. When looking at these to scenarios it just means that instead of lvl 4's dumping out their absurd amount of isk for the relative safety, some of the pilots will just draw a similar amount of isk from a different faucet. Because lets face it, if you can rat in your own space for your isk you aren't going to CONTINUE running missions in high sec. Additionally, if more faction mods are acquired from this I would think this helps sink some isk out of game, because it takes up more on the market and produces a larger loss when it is destroyed. tl;dr - Not much is going to change, as the people that used to JC to high sec to missions to fuel their 0.0 pvp activities will just switch which faucet they use. I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people. Originally by: CCP Zulupark WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2009.12.03 01:13:00 - [6] nullsec should be worth more to live in than empire - a lot more. And this wealth should be available to average residents, and not the few individuals in control of certain moons or powerblocs. That will theoretically attract people to nullsec, which is largely the point of dominion.
steveid Helljumpers	Posted - 2009.12.03 01:14:00 - [7] Originally by: Mr Ignitious A lot of isk is entering the system... However I doubt any alliance is going to coordinate anomaly raids within themselves, anomalies will be done by individuals. In addition there has always been a fairly large problem with lvl 4's in high sec being too profitable for the safety provided. 0.0 is now competitive with high sec making it at least some what appealing to what IS the larger majority of players, carebears too scared to venture out there. I would personally hope this finally starts drawing people out of their holes, and off the teet of concord. And to give you an idea of how it is for most players that I've known: 0.0 isn't (wasn't) profitable for individuals, all the value of 0.0 was in the moons, only seen by alliance level personnel. An individual would have to rely on ratting (not as safe and not as profitable as lvl 4's in high sec, not to mention 1 system could barely support a single person). A lot of people I knew would have jump clones in high sec in their mission hub that they would use and have to grind through when they needed isk. It was not fun and it meant we were usually stuck in high sec in that jump clone for the next 24 hours so we could not participate in pvp. What it is turning into now - the "lvl 4's" have moved to 0.0. This means pilots will be more readily available to defend their space and will hopefully reduce the "grind" feeling from that aspect of pve. Additionally it will hopefully draw more pilots to 0.0 even if initially for pve which would evolve into a like for pvp. With more individual resources available it will encourage more participation and more targets. When looking at these to scenarios it just means that instead of lvl 4's dumping out their absurd amount of isk for the relative safety, some of the pilots will just draw a similar amount of isk from a different faucet. Because lets face it, if you can rat in your own space for your isk you aren't going to CONTINUE running missions in high sec. Additionally, if more faction mods are acquired from this I would think this helps sink some isk out of game, because it takes up more on the market and produces a larger loss when it is destroyed. tl;dr - Not much is going to change, as the people that used to JC to high sec to missions to fuel their 0.0 pvp activities will just switch which faucet they use. That has elements of truth to it however your forgetting or may not be around at the time that back in 05 / 06 group money making activities were the norm. What stopped that was jewgold. As soon as an alliances leaders didn't need to make the alliance earn money together they stopped and started blowing crap up instead. IMO if an alliance can pull 150 people together over a few week period to shoot at R64's for hours then they can do this. Especially if they can earn a titan in a 24 hour period by doing so. Inappropriate signature removed. Zymurgist
Armoured C Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.12.03 01:17:00 - [8] now all they need to do is fix high sec mission to be in line with the security you have while doing said missions.
Mr Ignitious Helljumpers	Posted - 2009.12.03 01:24:00 - [9] If that's the case, then I still don't see the problem because as you said, a lot of teamwork farming got moved into passively mining moons. Now that the isk made from this should be lowered or at least distributed and slightly increase maintenance cost it should mean that moon $$ goes down, and gets replaced by major alliance wide anomaly raping ops. Regardless, I still don't think that this is the case simply because the game has changed drastically since 05/06. A lot of mechanics and content has been added to modify and change the industry and pvp populations. If anything, alliances have probably become complacent in not needing to organize large ops to get to people to shoot rats. A lot of players have also started since that time as well (myself included) and I daresay I am much more inclined to run anomalies by myself and for myself (or maybe with a friend or 2, depending on difficulty or boredom). While I suppose I could recognize that it may turn into a problem, I don't see how it would be much different from an alliance saying "hey everyone, we're going to xxxx 0.3 system to run lvl 5's all day and using the LP to buy and sell faction battleships for the alliances wallet." Maybe not necessarily solely faction bs, but if you organize lvl 5's or mass run lvl 4's and collaborate all the isk it would be very comparable. In which case I would still like to side with nothing will really change in the amount of isk entering the system, just where it comes from will change. And with some luck this change will draw more pilots out of high sec and start participating in pvp as well - we all know how fun that is I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people. Originally by: CCP Zulupark WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
Misaki Yuuko	Posted - 2009.12.03 01:50:00 - [10] nerf lvl4's, infinite isk faucets. seriouslly this gets old: you have X manpower hours which can be used either for: a) isk genration, b) pvp. the more manpower hours you need for a the less there are for b, because there are better resourced that let you spend less time doing a and more b does not mean the ISKs in the system are gonna increase. Also, apart of that, CA's are not much different to lvl4's in bounties/loot composition, and not all of them are good (tests in SiSi gave result of 5 out of 15/20 CA are equivalent to the good lvl4 missions); plus you need to haul & sell all that loot and stuff and you don' get LP's. And the value of 0.0 exploration and faction drops, is not a big problem,these are NOT FAUCETS, increased deadspace mods = drop in value, so it selfbalances quite well. at least try go get your facts and data straigh if you want to play space-economist. 0.0 still sucks for the average joe/casual player comapred to empire when it comes to isk generation.

Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.12.03 02:10:00 - [11] Basically, they finally fixed the issue of highsec L4s being reasonably lucrative for negligible risks on just about any scale... by introducing a way for a certain number of people to make much more per hour per person in 0.0 For all intents and purposes, this is a GREAT change - people no longer need to keep highsec L4 mission-running alts, they could just as well "run anomalies" in their local 0.0 Huge ISK faucet, you say ? Well, there's a huge ISK sink too now, in form of high-level system upgrades (cyno-related stuff being the most expensive). _ We are recruiting \| Beginer's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper
Verloc Nostromo Silver Snake Enterprise Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.12.03 02:27:00 - [12] Gotta be able to make the isk to pay for all the sov related stuff, and STILL be able to afford to shoot things somehow. CCP recognizes this.
Misaki Yuuko	Posted - 2009.12.03 02:28:00 - [13] Originally by: Akita T Basically, they finally fixed the issue of highsec L4s being reasonably lucrative for negligible risks on just about any scale... by introducing a way for a certain number of people to make much more per hour per person in 0.0 For all intents and purposes, this is a GREAT change - people no longer need to keep highsec L4 mission-running alts, they could just as well "run anomalies" in their local 0.0 Huge ISK faucet, you say ? Well, there's a huge ISK sink too now, in form of high-level system upgrades (cyno-related stuff being the most expensive). where exactlly does this happen akita? far from reality.
Silver Tongues	Posted - 2009.12.03 02:30:00 - [14] Originally by: Akita T Basically, they finally fixed the issue of highsec L4s being reasonably lucrative for negligible risks on just about any scale... by introducing a way for a certain number of people to make much more per hour per person in 0.0 For all intents and purposes, this is a GREAT change - people no longer need to keep highsec L4 mission-running alts, they could just as well "run anomalies" in their local 0.0 Huge ISK faucet, you say ? Well, there's a huge ISK sink too now, in form of high-level system upgrades (cyno-related stuff being the most expensive). Akita, you're generally very knowledgeable about the EVE economy, so I have to ask how the new ISK sink is going to affect it. Billions upon billions of isk could potentially vanish every single day from the new isk sink, and it isn't going into player hands like it was before. Do you think this will cause deflation in the market?
Alezander Jagen JagenCorp Combat Industries	Posted - 2009.12.03 06:53:00 - [15] Even though CCP created a huge ISK sink with the Sov benefits and upkeep, the money used to pay for that is the same that was being used to fuel the POSs holding sov. The only effect I see on the economy is 0.0 players having more ISK to spend (though it will be concentrated on same-alliance manufacturers, a little will trickle into empire), and POS fuel prices plummeting due to an overabundance of supply vs soon to be very little demand. They've got an economist at CCP for a reason, and they wouldn't add a faucet/sink like this without thinking the whole thing through. But I'm glad they added all this. It gives more incentive A. for NPC corp pubbies to move to 0.0 empires and B. for alliances to use the space they have and allow them to shrink (like that will happen) yet still keep the income rates just as high. But what do I know? I'm running a 1-man 2-char corporation in empire doing lvl4 missions in a raven.
Tobias Sjodin Ore Mongers	Posted - 2009.12.03 07:54:00 - [16] Originally by: Emperor Cheney nullsec should be worth more to live in than empire - a lot more. And this wealth should be available to average residents, and not the few individuals in control of certain moons or powerblocs. That will theoretically attract people to nullsec, which is largely the point of dominion. My sentiments exactly, well said. I am not against empire being profitable, it's just not been in conjunction with the concept that more risk equals more reward. I can make pretty much as much ISK in empire grinding Level 4-missions as I can in 0.0 ratting or similar. Space-holding alliances that are at risk deserve the extra gain in my opinion.
Junko Togawa Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.03 09:08:00 - [17] INB4 Epic Nerf of PDA's and following tears.
Zahorite	Posted - 2009.12.03 09:10:00 - [18] Edited by: Zahorite on 03/12/2009 09:11:37 All I have to say is, have you done any of these anomalies yet? So far I've gone to 4 of them, in roughly half an hour, no they don't seem to instantly respawn when everything is dead. Instead it takes like 15 minutes at least. Anyway in all four of them so far this is what I've found. Someone else already there killing everything, or everything already dead, which is kind of annoying but easily overcome with some organization. However, what I haven't found is what bothers me. So far I haven't seen a battleship. I hope that will change with lvl 5 upgrades. But if it doesn't we are pretty quickly going to see nobody doing these cause ratting astroid belts is still going to make you more. Anyway what I'm saying is that so far we aren't seeing a huge amount of isk coming in, at least as far as I can figure out. I mean seriously so far the anomalies I've seen are maybe the equivlant of lvl 3 missions that only respawn every 15 minutes, you have to wait 30 seconds to scan down, are likely to already be done, and don't give a reward or any loyalty points. I will grant that I haven't done very many anomalies yet but so far it's not looking that great. And it's always possible I may be doing something wrong. Oh and for all of you that seem to think that they are all DED 10/10 plexes. You're not even close. There isn't any faction loot that I've seen so far, like I've said I haven't even seen any battleships yet.
Vladimir Griftin Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.03 09:20:00 - [19] I farmed em last night to try and get the military index up a bit. They do respawn instantly, although at level 1 they are all very low level. I assume this will change as the military index increases. The thing that annoys me is there is a scanning bug where if you rescan, the old ones will still show up, so at one point I had about 25 plexes on my scanner. You can get round it by 'ignoring' on the one you warp to, but its still a pain. Almost level 3 anyway, I guess we wont know how good they really are till we hit lvl 5.
Batolemaeus Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.12.03 09:26:00 - [20] Originally by: Silver Tongues Billions upon billions of isk could potentially vanish every single day from the new isk sink, and it isn't going into player hands like it was before. Do you think this will cause deflation in the market? Actually, before the isk didn't go into player hands either. Only the isotopes, the heavy water, strontium and liquid ozone were created by players. The pos, the modules and most of the fuel parts are seeded by npc. Since most pos will stay, we're looking at a much greater isk sink than before. Much greater than you think. ---------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Prism X In New Eden, EVE wins you.

Lia Raven	Posted - 2009.12.03 09:30:00 - [21] Originally by: steveid Quote: Big heap of crap Sorry, If you want cookies, come fight for them. I¦m sick of carebears whining about why can¦t they perform the most profitable activity while completely safe. In 0.0 there are no warranties so it makes sense that the effort of new sov mechanics is rewarded with a good income instead of fighting with your own alliance mates for the 2 systems that worth ratting in the whole region. They already stated that new 0.0 activities are going to be the most profitable ones (as they should be from the start). I was so happy when I read that I was about to crap my pants. I can¦t wait for ccp to nerf L4 once and for all. If you want a riskless and profitable activity go play hello kitty online, there you can make cakes for your friends and the like.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.03 09:34:00 - [22] Quote: The top level anomalies in terms of ISK per hour are among some of the most profitable content in the game. So they decided to give them a significant buff from the initial plans they had? Good. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Zahorite	Posted - 2009.12.03 09:40:00 - [23] Originally by: Tippia Quote: The top level anomalies in terms of ISK per hour are among some of the most profitable content in the game. So they decided to give them a significant buff from the initial plans they had? Good. So far they haven't as far as I've seen. I put another post up trying to see if anyone with more experience with them know what they are like at lvl 5 military and fully upgraded, I don't know if anyone has upgraded a system to that yet though.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.12.03 09:52:00 - [24] I love how right up to d-day there was an active thread in the test server section talking about how awful the upgrade bonus were going to be and omgwhybother and now on d-day +1 all of a sudden its an omgiskprintingmachine.. Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.03 10:00:00 - [25] Originally by: Zeba I love how right up to d-day there was an active thread in the test server section talking about how awful the upgrade bonus were going to be and omgwhybother and now on d-day +1 all of a sudden its an omgiskprintingmachine.. Maybe because CCP had stated that the top-tier anomalies would be "on par" with running L4s, which would them a pitiful waste of ISK and time. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.12.03 10:03:00 - [26] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Zeba I love how right up to d-day there was an active thread in the test server section talking about how awful the upgrade bonus were going to be and omgwhybother and now on d-day +1 all of a sudden its an omgiskprintingmachine.. Maybe because CCP had stated that the top-tier anomalies would be "on par" with running L4s, which would them a pitiful waste of ISK and time. Trolled by ccp again.. Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Carniflex Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.12.03 10:19:00 - [27] Originally by: steveid Its giving 0.0 alliances level 4 missions without needing to move systems that instarespawn when your done and drop faction loot. Its a BIG problem. You know. I might actually consider moving my carebear division back to 0.0 if this one works out. I mean those 2-3 accounts I use to grind isk for my other accounts. So I do not see it exactly as a problem.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.03 10:27:00 - [28] Originally by: Zeba Trolled by ccp again.. More or less, yes… But by the sound of it, they might have actually understood that it was a thoroughly stupid idea and have given the anomalies a of worth-while level of rewards. We'll see once those MilIndexes start accumulating to useful levels. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Vrenth Gallente Lightning Industries	Posted - 2009.12.03 10:28:00 - [29] Edited by: Vrenth on 03/12/2009 10:28:22 Originally by: Silver Tongues Originally by: Akita T Basically, they finally fixed the issue of highsec L4s being reasonably lucrative for negligible risks on just about any scale... by introducing a way for a certain number of people to make much more per hour per person in 0.0 For all intents and purposes, this is a GREAT change - people no longer need to keep highsec L4 mission-running alts, they could just as well "run anomalies" in their local 0.0 Huge ISK faucet, you say ? Well, there's a huge ISK sink too now, in form of high-level system upgrades (cyno-related stuff being the most expensive). Akita, you're generally very knowledgeable about the EVE economy, so I have to ask how the new ISK sink is going to affect it. Billions upon billions of isk could potentially vanish every single day from the new isk sink, and it isn't going into player hands like it was before. Do you think this will cause deflation in the market? Alliance warfare was never an isk sink before. 90% of the isk (fuel) went back into the economy in the form of ice products. Now, the isk is simply being removed from the economy, helping inflation. Also, the new capture system will most likely result in the loss of alot more ships, due to more vulnerable and hands on warfare. Supply and demand. Akita T is correct, this can only help the economy. There needs to be something FAR more lucrative in 0.0 than mission running in empire, otherwise the whole risk/reward aspect of Eve that CCP envisioned is destroyed.
Mikal Drey Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.03 10:29:00 - [30] Originally by: Zahorite .....However, what I haven't found is what bothers me. So far I haven't seen a battleship. I hope that will change with lvl 5 upgrades. .... pretty much this tbh. [anecdotal] the upgrades are tiered and each level of upgrade spawns that tier anomoly. a L1 upgrade spawns 4x frigate sized anomolies roughly mirroring a L1 mission. L2 frigate/cruiser L2 mission etc . . . . you get the point. . so a L4 anomoly will be the ones spawning battleships. this means that a L5 upgraded system will spawn 4x L1 4x L2 4x L3 4x L4 4x L5 tier anomolies NOT 20x L5 anomolies. [/anecdotal] i did hear from the person that gave me this info that it was from a dev reply somewhere and i believeit was CCP Soundwave that said the anomolies will be improved versions from the previous incarnations and that they will be picked from a specific tiered pool and as everyone already knows its the L5 OMG TOP LEVEL SYSTEM UBER UPGRADED is equivilant of a L4 mission :/ which is why the system is **ing **. taking a system as a whole with all upgrades it should be a semi decent system for a corp to farm iskies from. remember that the anomolies could also be escalations and not just static ones



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