| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
steveid
Helljumpers
   |
Posted - 2009.12.03 00:55:00 -
[1]
 Quote:
Pirate Detection Arrays
Each level of this upgrade gives you four anomalies per level, each of which re-spawns instantly upon completion. This mean that at Level 5 you are guaranteed to have twenty anomalies at all times in a system. These are basically dungeons which spawn waves of NPC's for you to happily shoot. The top level anomalies in terms of ISK per hour are among some of the most profitable content in the game.
These anomalies are awesome because there is a constant supply of them and there are no skill requirements to scan them down. They can be found by anyone using the onboard scanner with a 100% success rate. Basically, if you are in a system that's small enough to be covered by one probe, you will get the full list of available sites instantly and you can warp to them.
These anomalies also have a percentage chance to spawn NPC faction commanders, as well as escalate to other dungeons.
Let me give you a hypothetical.
An alliance has 120 active commited people. They split that into 5 groups of 20 combat fit ships, 1 group of 10 salvagers and 1 group of ten looters. They then warp a group of 20 to an anomaly, pretty much instapop it while the backup fleets loot and salvage.
As they do this another site respawns, rinse, repeat.
They can do this all day, every day.
This is bigger than fixed 10/10 complex's.
Its the equivalent of an unquenchable faucet of isk that the wore work you put it the more money you get out.
Its giving 0.0 alliances level 4 missions without needing to move systems that instarespawn when your done and drop faction loot.
Its a BIG problem.
Inappropriate signature removed. Zymurgist |
ViRUS Pottage
THE FINAL STAND
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 00:58:00 -
[2]
And the people safe in 1.0 making pretty much the same isn't a problem?
___________
Originally by: CCP Taera
May I have your stuff?
|
Salmeria
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 00:59:00 -
[3]
Its not like they need to defend that isk faucet??
|
steveid
Helljumpers
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 01:04:00 -
[4]
They needed to defend 10/10 complex's and they were a problem. And the difference between this and missions is travel time. Travel time increases mission completion time considerably for groups of mission runners.
Inappropriate signature removed. Zymurgist |
Mr Ignitious
Helljumpers
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 01:09:00 -
[5]
A lot of isk is entering the system... However I doubt any alliance is going to coordinate anomaly raids within themselves, anomalies will be done by individuals. In addition there has always been a fairly large problem with lvl 4's in high sec being too profitable for the safety provided. 0.0 is now competitive with high sec making it at least some what appealing to what IS the larger majority of players, carebears too scared to venture out there. I would personally hope this finally starts drawing people out of their holes, and off the teet of concord.
And to give you an idea of how it is for most players that I've known: 0.0 isn't (wasn't) profitable for individuals, all the value of 0.0 was in the moons, only seen by alliance level personnel. An individual would have to rely on ratting (not as safe and not as profitable as lvl 4's in high sec, not to mention 1 system could barely support a single person). A lot of people I knew would have jump clones in high sec in their mission hub that they would use and have to grind through when they needed isk. It was not fun and it meant we were usually stuck in high sec in that jump clone for the next 24 hours so we could not participate in pvp.
What it is turning into now - the "lvl 4's" have moved to 0.0. This means pilots will be more readily available to defend their space and will hopefully reduce the "grind" feeling from that aspect of pve. Additionally it will hopefully draw more pilots to 0.0 even if initially for pve which would evolve into a like for pvp. With more individual resources available it will encourage more participation and more targets.
When looking at these to scenarios it just means that instead of lvl 4's dumping out their absurd amount of isk for the relative safety, some of the pilots will just draw a similar amount of isk from a different faucet. Because lets face it, if you can rat in your own space for your isk you aren't going to CONTINUE running missions in high sec.
Additionally, if more faction mods are acquired from this I would think this helps sink some isk out of game, because it takes up more on the market and produces a larger loss when it is destroyed.
tl;dr - Not much is going to change, as the people that used to JC to high sec to missions to fuel their 0.0 pvp activities will just switch which faucet they use.
I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
|
Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 01:13:00 -
[6]
nullsec should be worth more to live in than empire - a lot more. And this wealth should be available to average residents, and not the few individuals in control of certain moons or powerblocs. That will theoretically attract people to nullsec, which is largely the point of dominion.
|
steveid
Helljumpers
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 01:14:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Mr Ignitious
A lot of isk is entering the system... However I doubt any alliance is going to coordinate anomaly raids within themselves, anomalies will be done by individuals. In addition there has always been a fairly large problem with lvl 4's in high sec being too profitable for the safety provided. 0.0 is now competitive with high sec making it at least some what appealing to what IS the larger majority of players, carebears too scared to venture out there. I would personally hope this finally starts drawing people out of their holes, and off the teet of concord.
And to give you an idea of how it is for most players that I've known: 0.0 isn't (wasn't) profitable for individuals, all the value of 0.0 was in the moons, only seen by alliance level personnel. An individual would have to rely on ratting (not as safe and not as profitable as lvl 4's in high sec, not to mention 1 system could barely support a single person). A lot of people I knew would have jump clones in high sec in their mission hub that they would use and have to grind through when they needed isk. It was not fun and it meant we were usually stuck in high sec in that jump clone for the next 24 hours so we could not participate in pvp.
What it is turning into now - the "lvl 4's" have moved to 0.0. This means pilots will be more readily available to defend their space and will hopefully reduce the "grind" feeling from that aspect of pve. Additionally it will hopefully draw more pilots to 0.0 even if initially for pve which would evolve into a like for pvp. With more individual resources available it will encourage more participation and more targets.
When looking at these to scenarios it just means that instead of lvl 4's dumping out their absurd amount of isk for the relative safety, some of the pilots will just draw a similar amount of isk from a different faucet. Because lets face it, if you can rat in your own space for your isk you aren't going to CONTINUE running missions in high sec.
Additionally, if more faction mods are acquired from this I would think this helps sink some isk out of game, because it takes up more on the market and produces a larger loss when it is destroyed.
tl;dr - Not much is going to change, as the people that used to JC to high sec to missions to fuel their 0.0 pvp activities will just switch which faucet they use.
That has elements of truth to it however your forgetting or may not be around at the time that back in 05 / 06 group money making activities were the norm. What stopped that was jewgold. As soon as an alliances leaders didn't need to make the alliance earn money together they stopped and started blowing crap up instead. IMO if an alliance can pull 150 people together over a few week period to shoot at R64's for hours then they can do this. Especially if they can earn a titan in a 24 hour period by doing so.
Inappropriate signature removed. Zymurgist |
Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 01:17:00 -
[8]
now all they need to do is fix high sec mission to be in line with the security you have while doing said missions.
|
Mr Ignitious
Helljumpers
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 01:24:00 -
[9]
If that's the case, then I still don't see the problem because as you said, a lot of teamwork farming got moved into passively mining moons. Now that the isk made from this should be lowered or at least distributed and slightly increase maintenance cost it should mean that moon $$ goes down, and gets replaced by major alliance wide anomaly raping ops.
Regardless, I still don't think that this is the case simply because the game has changed drastically since 05/06. A lot of mechanics and content has been added to modify and change the industry and pvp populations. If anything, alliances have probably become complacent in not needing to organize large ops to get to people to shoot rats. A lot of players have also started since that time as well (myself included) and I daresay I am much more inclined to run anomalies by myself and for myself (or maybe with a friend or 2, depending on difficulty or boredom).
While I suppose I could recognize that it may turn into a problem, I don't see how it would be much different from an alliance saying "hey everyone, we're going to xxxx 0.3 system to run lvl 5's all day and using the LP to buy and sell faction battleships for the alliances wallet." Maybe not necessarily solely faction bs, but if you organize lvl 5's or mass run lvl 4's and collaborate all the isk it would be very comparable. In which case I would still like to side with nothing will really change in the amount of isk entering the system, just where it comes from will change. And with some luck this change will draw more pilots out of high sec and start participating in pvp as well - we all know how fun that is 
I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
|
Misaki Yuuko
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 01:50:00 -
[10]
nerf lvl4's, infinite isk faucets.
seriouslly this gets old: you have X manpower hours which can be used either for: a) isk genration, b) pvp. the more manpower hours you need for a the less there are for b, because there are better resourced that let you spend less time doing a and more b does not mean the ISKs in the system are gonna increase.
Also, apart of that, CA's are not much different to lvl4's in bounties/loot composition, and not all of them are good (tests in SiSi gave result of 5 out of 15/20 CA are equivalent to the good lvl4 missions); plus you need to haul & sell all that loot and stuff and you don' get LP's. And the value of 0.0 exploration and faction drops, is not a big problem,these are NOT FAUCETS, increased deadspace mods = drop in value, so it selfbalances quite well.
at least try go get your facts and data straigh if you want to play space-economist. 0.0 still sucks for the average joe/casual player comapred to empire when it comes to isk generation.
|
|
|
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 02:10:00 -
[11]
Basically, they finally fixed the issue of highsec L4s being reasonably lucrative for negligible risks on just about any scale... by introducing a way for a certain number of people to make much more per hour per person in 0.0
For all intents and purposes, this is a GREAT change - people no longer need to keep highsec L4 mission-running alts, they could just as well "run anomalies" in their local 0.0
Huge ISK faucet, you say ?
Well, there's a huge ISK sink too now, in form of high-level system upgrades (cyno-related stuff being the most expensive).
_
We are recruiting | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Verloc Nostromo
Silver Snake Enterprise
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 02:27:00 -
[12]
Gotta be able to make the isk to pay for all the sov related stuff, and STILL be able to afford to shoot things somehow. CCP recognizes this.
|
Misaki Yuuko
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 02:28:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Akita T
Basically, they finally fixed the issue of highsec L4s being reasonably lucrative for negligible risks on just about any scale... by introducing a way for a certain number of people to make much more per hour per person in 0.0
For all intents and purposes, this is a GREAT change - people no longer need to keep highsec L4 mission-running alts, they could just as well "run anomalies" in their local 0.0
Huge ISK faucet, you say ?
Well, there's a huge ISK sink too now, in form of high-level system upgrades (cyno-related stuff being the most expensive).
where exactlly does this happen akita? far from reality.
|
Silver Tongues
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 02:30:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Akita T
Basically, they finally fixed the issue of highsec L4s being reasonably lucrative for negligible risks on just about any scale... by introducing a way for a certain number of people to make much more per hour per person in 0.0
For all intents and purposes, this is a GREAT change - people no longer need to keep highsec L4 mission-running alts, they could just as well "run anomalies" in their local 0.0
Huge ISK faucet, you say ?
Well, there's a huge ISK sink too now, in form of high-level system upgrades (cyno-related stuff being the most expensive).
Akita, you're generally very knowledgeable about the EVE economy, so I have to ask how the new ISK sink is going to affect it. Billions upon billions of isk could potentially vanish every single day from the new isk sink, and it isn't going into player hands like it was before. Do you think this will cause deflation in the market?
|
Alezander Jagen
JagenCorp Combat Industries
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 06:53:00 -
[15]
Even though CCP created a huge ISK sink with the Sov benefits and upkeep, the money used to pay for that is the same that was being used to fuel the POSs holding sov.
The only effect I see on the economy is 0.0 players having more ISK to spend (though it will be concentrated on same-alliance manufacturers, a little will trickle into empire), and POS fuel prices plummeting due to an overabundance of supply vs soon to be very little demand.
They've got an economist at CCP for a reason, and they wouldn't add a faucet/sink like this without thinking the whole thing through. But I'm glad they added all this. It gives more incentive A. for NPC corp pubbies to move to 0.0 empires and B. for alliances to use the space they have and allow them to shrink (like that will happen) yet still keep the income rates just as high.
But what do I know? I'm running a 1-man 2-char corporation in empire doing lvl4 missions in a raven.
|
Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 07:54:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney
nullsec should be worth more to live in than empire - a lot more. And this wealth should be available to average residents, and not the few individuals in control of certain moons or powerblocs. That will theoretically attract people to nullsec, which is largely the point of dominion.
My sentiments exactly, well said.
I am not against empire being profitable, it's just not been in conjunction with the concept that more risk equals more reward. I can make pretty much as much ISK in empire grinding Level 4-missions as I can in 0.0 ratting or similar. Space-holding alliances that are at risk deserve the extra gain in my opinion.
|
Junko Togawa
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 09:08:00 -
[17]
INB4 Epic Nerf of PDA's and following tears. 
|
Zahorite
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 09:10:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Zahorite on 03/12/2009 09:11:37
All I have to say is, have you done any of these anomalies yet?
So far I've gone to 4 of them, in roughly half an hour, no they don't seem to instantly respawn when everything is dead. Instead it takes like 15 minutes at least.
Anyway in all four of them so far this is what I've found. Someone else already there killing everything, or everything already dead, which is kind of annoying but easily overcome with some organization. However, what I haven't found is what bothers me. So far I haven't seen a battleship. I hope that will change with lvl 5 upgrades. But if it doesn't we are pretty quickly going to see nobody doing these cause ratting astroid belts is still going to make you more.
Anyway what I'm saying is that so far we aren't seeing a huge amount of isk coming in, at least as far as I can figure out. I mean seriously so far the anomalies I've seen are maybe the equivlant of lvl 3 missions that only respawn every 15 minutes, you have to wait 30 seconds to scan down, are likely to already be done, and don't give a reward or any loyalty points.
I will grant that I haven't done very many anomalies yet but so far it's not looking that great. And it's always possible I may be doing something wrong.
Oh and for all of you that seem to think that they are all DED 10/10 plexes. You're not even close. There isn't any faction loot that I've seen so far, like I've said I haven't even seen any battleships yet.
|
Vladimir Griftin
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 09:20:00 -
[19]
I farmed em last night to try and get the military index up a bit. They do respawn instantly, although at level 1 they are all very low level. I assume this will change as the military index increases.
The thing that annoys me is there is a scanning bug where if you rescan, the old ones will still show up, so at one point I had about 25 plexes on my scanner. You can get round it by 'ignoring' on the one you warp to, but its still a pain.
Almost level 3 anyway, I guess we wont know how good they really are till we hit lvl 5.
|
Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 09:26:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Silver Tongues
Billions upon billions of isk could potentially vanish every single day from the new isk sink, and it isn't going into player hands like it was before. Do you think this will cause deflation in the market?
Actually, before the isk didn't go into player hands either. Only the isotopes, the heavy water, strontium and liquid ozone were created by players. The pos, the modules and most of the fuel parts are seeded by npc.
Since most pos will stay, we're looking at a much greater isk sink than before. Much greater than you think.
----------------------------------------------
Originally by: CCP Prism X
In New Eden, EVE wins you.
|
|
|
Lia Raven
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 09:30:00 -
[21]
Originally by: steveid
Quote:
Big heap of crap
Sorry, If you want cookies, come fight for them. IŠm sick of carebears whining about why canŠt they perform the most profitable activity while completely safe. In 0.0 there are no warranties so it makes sense that the effort of new sov mechanics is rewarded with a good income instead of fighting with your own alliance mates for the 2 systems that worth ratting in the whole region.
They already stated that new 0.0 activities are going to be the most profitable ones (as they should be from the start). I was so happy when I read that I was about to crap my pants.
I canŠt wait for ccp to nerf L4 once and for all.
If you want a riskless and profitable activity go play hello kitty online, there you can make cakes for your friends and the like.
|
Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 09:34:00 -
[22]
Quote:
The top level anomalies in terms of ISK per hour are among some of the most profitable content in the game.
So they decided to give them a significant buff from the initial plans they had?
Good.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Zahorite
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 09:40:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Tippia
Quote:
The top level anomalies in terms of ISK per hour are among some of the most profitable content in the game.
So they decided to give them a significant buff from the initial plans they had?
Good.
So far they haven't as far as I've seen. I put another post up trying to see if anyone with more experience with them know what they are like at lvl 5 military and fully upgraded, I don't know if anyone has upgraded a system to that yet though.
|
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 09:52:00 -
[24]
I love how right up to d-day there was an active thread in the test server section talking about how awful the upgrade bonus were going to be and omgwhybother and now on d-day +1 all of a sudden its an omgiskprintingmachine.. 
Originally by: CCP Casqade
The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
|
Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 10:00:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Zeba
I love how right up to d-day there was an active thread in the test server section talking about how awful the upgrade bonus were going to be and omgwhybother and now on d-day +1 all of a sudden its an omgiskprintingmachine..
Maybe because CCP had stated that the top-tier anomalies would be "on par" with running L4s, which would them a pitiful waste of ISK and time.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 10:03:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Zeba
I love how right up to d-day there was an active thread in the test server section talking about how awful the upgrade bonus were going to be and omgwhybother and now on d-day +1 all of a sudden its an omgiskprintingmachine..
Maybe because CCP had stated that the top-tier anomalies would be "on par" with running L4s, which would them a pitiful waste of ISK and time.
Trolled by ccp again..
Originally by: CCP Casqade
The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
|
Carniflex
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 10:19:00 -
[27]
Originally by: steveid
Its giving 0.0 alliances level 4 missions without needing to move systems that instarespawn when your done and drop faction loot.
Its a BIG problem.
You know. I might actually consider moving my carebear division back to 0.0 if this one works out. I mean those 2-3 accounts I use to grind isk for my other accounts. So I do not see it exactly as a problem.
|
Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 10:27:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Zeba
Trolled by ccp again..
More or less, yes… 
But by the sound of it, they might have actually understood that it was a thoroughly stupid idea and have given the anomalies a of worth-while level of rewards. We'll see once those MilIndexes start accumulating to useful levels.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Vrenth
Gallente
Lightning Industries
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 10:28:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Vrenth on 03/12/2009 10:28:22
Originally by: Silver Tongues
Originally by: Akita T
Basically, they finally fixed the issue of highsec L4s being reasonably lucrative for negligible risks on just about any scale... by introducing a way for a certain number of people to make much more per hour per person in 0.0
For all intents and purposes, this is a GREAT change - people no longer need to keep highsec L4 mission-running alts, they could just as well "run anomalies" in their local 0.0
Huge ISK faucet, you say ?
Well, there's a huge ISK sink too now, in form of high-level system upgrades (cyno-related stuff being the most expensive).
Akita, you're generally very knowledgeable about the EVE economy, so I have to ask how the new ISK sink is going to affect it. Billions upon billions of isk could potentially vanish every single day from the new isk sink, and it isn't going into player hands like it was before. Do you think this will cause deflation in the market?
Alliance warfare was never an isk sink before. 90% of the isk (fuel) went back into the economy in the form of ice products.
Now, the isk is simply being removed from the economy, helping inflation. Also, the new capture system will most likely result in the loss of alot more ships, due to more vulnerable and hands on warfare. Supply and demand. Akita T is correct, this can only help the economy. There needs to be something FAR more lucrative in 0.0 than mission running in empire, otherwise the whole risk/reward aspect of Eve that CCP envisioned is destroyed.
|
Mikal Drey
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 10:29:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Zahorite
.....However, what I haven't found is what bothers me. So far I haven't seen a battleship. I hope that will change with lvl 5 upgrades. ....
pretty much this tbh.
[anecdotal]
the upgrades are tiered and each level of upgrade spawns that tier anomoly. a L1 upgrade spawns 4x frigate sized anomolies roughly mirroring a L1 mission. L2 frigate/cruiser L2 mission etc . . . . you get the point. . so a L4 anomoly will be the ones spawning battleships. this means that a L5 upgraded system will spawn 4x L1 4x L2 4x L3 4x L4 4x L5 tier anomolies NOT 20x L5 anomolies.
[/anecdotal]
i did hear from the person that gave me this info that it was from a dev reply somewhere and i believeit was CCP Soundwave that said the anomolies will be improved versions from the previous incarnations and that they will be picked from a specific tiered pool and as everyone already knows its the L5 OMG TOP LEVEL SYSTEM UBER UPGRADED is equivilant of a L4 mission :/ which is why the system is ****ing ****.
taking a system as a whole with all upgrades it should be a semi decent system for a corp to farm iskies from. remember that the anomolies could also be escalations and not just static ones
|
|
|
gfldex
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 10:54:00 -
[31]
Originally by: steveid
Let me give you a hypothetical.
An alliance has 120 active commited people. They split that into 5 groups of 20 combat fit ships, 1 group of 10 salvagers and 1 group of ten looters. They then warp a group of 20 to an anomaly, pretty much instapop it while the backup fleets loot and salvage.
As they do this another site respawns, rinse, repeat.
They can do this all day, every day.
This is bigger than fixed 10/10 complex's.
Its the equivalent of an unquenchable faucet of isk that the wore work you put it the more money you get out.
Its giving 0.0 alliances level 4 missions without needing to move systems that instarespawn when your done and drop faction loot.
Good observation and sound reasoning.
Originally by: steveid
Its a BIG problem.
You forgot to reason here. Or in other words: Why _is_ it a problem?
|
Sokratesz
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 10:55:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 03/12/2009 10:55:43
Originally by: ViRUS Pottage
And the people safe in 1.0 making pretty much the same isn't a problem?
QFT
I for one welcome more opportunities to make a living in 0.0, it will draw more people out of the empires I hope.
|
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 11:01:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Zeba on 03/12/2009 11:01:40
Originally by: Sokratesz
Edited by: Sokratesz on 03/12/2009 10:55:43
Originally by: ViRUS Pottage
And the people safe in 1.0 making pretty much the same isn't a problem?
QFT
I for one welcome more opportunities to make a living in 0.0, it will draw more people out of the empires I hope.
If fw missions are any indication then huge rewards will draw the carebears and alliance isk earner alts out of concords loving embrace in droves. Though the hard part so far is to get them to stop whooring lp long enough to spend that pile of isk on some ships and go kill the opposing militia..
Originally by: CCP Casqade
The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
|
Kilhu Emmek
Minmatar
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 11:08:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Alezander Jagen
They've got an economist at CCP
An Icelandic economist. Very important distinction. 
--
|
Sokratesz
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 11:21:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kilhu Emmek
Originally by: Alezander Jagen
They've got an economist at CCP
An Icelandic economist. Very important distinction.
That's just mean :P
|
Amy Wang
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 11:27:00 -
[36]
funny
1. most 0.0 alliance with 120 active and organized people have better and more fun things to do then farm anomalies, like whack their neighbors over the head
2. the same 120 people running high sec lvl 4 missions would prolly make the same amount of cash if not more, without having to pay for the space or defend it
|
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 11:39:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Zeba on 03/12/2009 11:40:29
Originally by: Amy Wang
funny
1. most 0.0 alliance with 120 active and organized people have better and more fun things to do then farm anomalies, like whack their neighbors over the head
2. the same 120 people running high sec lvl 4 missions would prolly make the same amount of cash if not more, without having to pay for the space or defend it
funny
1. most 0.0 alliance with 120 active and organized people need to make isk to buy the stuff to whack their neighbors over the head
2. the same 120 people running high sec lvl4 missions can now stay at home near the action and use those leet mission alts to farm anomalies for better than empire isk and use as a handy alt in a fight or maybe have a combat character in different parts of the territory to cover moar area
Originally by: CCP Casqade
The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
|
AlleyKat
The Unwanted.
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 12:00:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Zeba
1. most 0.0 alliance with 120 active and organized people need to make isk to buy the stuff to whack their neighbors over the head
2. the same 120 people running high sec lvl4 missions can now stay at home near the action and use those leet mission alts to farm anomalies for better than empire isk and use as a handy alt in a fight or maybe have a combat character in different parts of the territory to cover moar area
That's a nail/head moment from Zeba.
Alliance members shall typically have alts for mission running, and hopefully they will move them out to null-sec.
AK
EVE-ONLINE VIDEO-MAKING TUTORIALS |
Augeas
Anvil of Creation
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 12:06:00 -
[39]
I've made far, far more ISK than I know what to do with at zero risk to myself whilst not even online in highsec. So how do these anomalies and, indeed, L4s stack up to that?
|
The Tzar
T-Wrecks
Cult of War
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 13:03:00 -
[40]
The fact remains that even if you whinge about one side or the other; whether lvl4's are too profitable compared to risk or the new anomolies will generate too much isk...
... all are available to anybody who chooses to use them.
If you think one is better than the other, um why not go and do them??
If it is too far away (read empire lvl4's) or too 'dangerous' (read 0.0 anomolies) you as a player have chosen to way up your own needs/desires vs time/risk for yourself.
Just please for the love of god stop whinging.
If you don't like it, don't play. 
Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. StevieSG |
|
|
Vladimir Griftin
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 13:21:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Augeas
I've made far, far more ISK than I know what to do with at zero risk to myself whilst not even online in highsec. So how do these anomalies and, indeed, L4s stack up to that?
This isn't a thread about trading or manufacturing because those things don't 'create' ISK. They just move it about.
Anomalies, like lvl 4's will pump more ISK into the system, which will subsequently devalue ISK.
The new anomalies give 0.0 players the same opportunity to have a steady reliable flow of ISK that is equal to or even above that of level 4 missions. Level 4 mission income should be a baseline for everyone really, which is essentially what this patch has done.
On top of that, 0.0 players also have all the benefits that should come with the risk. Such as ore rich full belts, high end gravimetric sites, high level DED plexes and faction spawns.
The one thing that's really missing is a way for alliances to make money from their space, at an alliance level.
|
Deja Thoris
Invicta.
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 13:33:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Vladimir Griftin
The one thing that's really missing is a way for alliances to make money from their space, at an alliance level.
Like docking fees, repro fees and renter corps?
|
steveid
Helljumpers
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 14:22:00 -
[43]
Originally by: gfldex
Originally by: steveid
Let me give you a hypothetical.
An alliance has 120 active commited people. They split that into 5 groups of 20 combat fit ships, 1 group of 10 salvagers and 1 group of ten looters. They then warp a group of 20 to an anomaly, pretty much instapop it while the backup fleets loot and salvage.
As they do this another site respawns, rinse, repeat.
They can do this all day, every day.
This is bigger than fixed 10/10 complex's.
Its the equivalent of an unquenchable faucet of isk that the wore work you put it the more money you get out.
Its giving 0.0 alliances level 4 missions without needing to move systems that instarespawn when your done and drop faction loot.
Good observation and sound reasoning.
Originally by: steveid
Its a BIG problem.
You forgot to reason here. Or in other words: Why _is_ it a problem?
Inappropriate signature removed. Zymurgist |
Misaki Yuuko
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 14:41:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Misaki Yuuko on 03/12/2009 14:42:20
Originally by: Vladimir Griftin
Anomalies, like lvl 4's will pump more ISK into the system, which will subsequently devalue ISK.
The new anomalies give 0.0 players the same opportunity to have a steady reliable flow of ISK that is equal to or even above that of level 4 missions. Level 4 mission income should be a baseline for everyone really, which is essentially what this patch has done.
On top of that, 0.0 players also have all the benefits that should come with the risk. Such as ore rich full belts, high end gravimetric sites, high level DED plexes and faction spawns.
The one thing that's really missing is a way for alliances to make money from their space, at an alliance level.
The baseline income in 0.0 (and lowsec, which more or less got buffed with FW LP stores & missions, but that's only for people who is in FW, so still needs work) should be way higher than hisec. If CCP wants people to move (even if they are isk-making alts) to 0.0 and empire building they have to reward it.
Isk are nto goign to devalue because Dominion IS an HUGE new isk sink in form of sov structures and maintenace fees, it will balance and probably the removal of isk from the economy is gonna be quite big.
Alliance objectives still exist in the form of moon mining, which still is very valuable but now is better distributed (will see about technetium and neodymium though) and requeires more effort.
|
Baneken
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 14:47:00 -
[45]
Ofc. most people seem to forget that most people doing lvl 4 missions are low SP players in BS's not some HC grinders with their marauders and dozens of alts.
Considering the cost and PvP capabilities of joe random marauder (and it's pilot) it's no surprise that most profitable mission runners stay the hell away from null sec, not to mention all too common NBSI mentality of most 0.0 alliancies.
|
Sokratesz
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 14:51:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Baneken
Ofc. most people seem to remember all too well that most people doing lvl 4 missions are medium SP players in T2/faction fit (faction) BS's set on getting themost isk/hr from teir missions
fixed that for you
|
Misaki Yuuko
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 15:17:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Baneken
Ofc. most people seem to forget that most people doing lvl 4 missions are low SP players in BS's not some HC grinders with their marauders and dozens of alts.
Considering the cost and PvP capabilities of joe random marauder (and it's pilot) it's no surprise that most profitable mission runners stay the hell away from null sec, not to mention all too common NBSI mentality of most 0.0 alliancies.
Theorical max profit is what should be used to balance stuff becaus is what min/maxers and experienced people will be doing after a while (it includes average time to gather, haul & sell stuff too).
Anyway people rarelly uses 1.5-2 bill ships in 0.0 contrary to hisec for obvious reasons. So what's the point anyway?
|
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 15:30:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Akita T on 03/12/2009 15:31:39
Originally by: Misaki Yuuko
Anyway people rarelly uses 1.5-2 bill ships in 0.0 contrary to hisec for obvious reasons. So what's the point anyway?
Some small number of people rarely use ships worth more than 250 mil in highsec for mission-running too.
Also, plenty of people run billion-ISK ships in "dead end" lowsec already.
And a few people _DID_ run billions-of-ISK ships in 0.0 already, if it was a "safe area" deep into their own alliance's territory.
The point ? Hmm... maybe that you can only do this statistically on collected data after the fact as opposed to analytically before anything goes live ?
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Kilhu Emmek
Originally by: Alezander Jagen
They've got an economist at CCP
An Icelandic economist. Very important distinction.
That's just mean :P
Mean but sadly (at least partially) true 
I have had to express my disagreements more than once, and there are some major points of contention on the current expansion too.
Of course, my access to statistical data is limited, so I can't be completely sure which side is right unless that data is released for the general public.
Originally by: Silver Tongues
Originally by: Akita T
Basically, they finally fixed the issue of highsec L4s being reasonably lucrative for negligible risks on just about any scale... by introducing a way for a certain number of people to make much more per hour per person in 0.0
For all intents and purposes, this is a GREAT change - people no longer need to keep highsec L4 mission-running alts, they could just as well "run anomalies" in their local 0.0
Huge ISK faucet, you say ?
Well, there's a huge ISK sink too now, in form of high-level system upgrades (cyno-related stuff being the most expensive).
Akita, you're generally very knowledgeable about the EVE economy, so I have to ask how the new ISK sink is going to affect it. Billions upon billions of isk could potentially vanish every single day from the new isk sink, and it isn't going into player hands like it was before. Do you think this will cause deflation in the market?
Too early to tell which way the balance will slant - it depends on way too many factors to call.
Also, CCP could always adjust "system upgrade" upkeeps either up or down depending on needs (not that they would, but they could).
_
We are recruiting | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Kitimortoa
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 16:50:00 -
[49]
Originally by: steveid
They needed to defend 10/10 complex's and they were a problem. And the difference between this and missions is travel time. Travel time increases mission completion time considerably for groups of mission runners.
Most missions require 1 jump to get to.
I don't see why this is such a big deal. Stop being whiny, jealous little girl and play the game.
|
Misaki Yuuko
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 17:09:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 03/12/2009 15:31:39
Originally by: Misaki Yuuko
Anyway people rarelly uses 1.5-2 bill ships in 0.0 contrary to hisec for obvious reasons. So what's the point anyway?
Some small number of people rarely use ships worth more than 250 mil in highsec for mission-running too.
Also, plenty of people run billion-ISK ships in "dead end" lowsec already.
And a few people _DID_ run billions-of-ISK ships in 0.0 already, if it was a "safe area" deep into their own alliance's territory.
The point ? Hmm... maybe that you can only do this statistically on collected data after the fact as opposed to analytically before anything goes live ?
No, there is no point in pointing out what he did because is totally irrelevant, the same as what you or I pointed out, either true or not.
What only matters is, than similar isk earning/grinding activities related to pve, should be more profitable in 0.0 & lowsec than in hisec, not equal, neither less, but more. (and if 0.0 is more secure is because the players did it, and no, logging off/cloaking is not secure becausde you are losign time, but I'm sure you know this Akita).
How do you solve the dilema CCP created in Exodus, I don't care, but is the biggest imbalance ingame right now and has been since... ages, also affecting other related activities (mining etc.) and overall the game economy. If you can buff 0.0 without screwing too much the inflation then do it, if you need to introduce a few isk sinks in the process i'm fine (as they have done), if you need to fix other stuff (ffs, remove insuranfce or fix it) do it, if there is no other solution than nerfing lvl4's because if not things would get bad, then fine. But fix it damnit.
Also I have yet to understand all the panic about inflation/deflation, seriouslly people must get a clue: EVE is a closed system, is not like there are 100 different currencies in EVE with different countries exporting-importing goods, inflation and deflation is almost a non-issue (why do you think other MMOs which do not have 'destruction' of goods/currency can survive anyway).
What if a battleship costs 300 millions?? If it does is because actually ISK are cheap to earn, and that's because the major economic activity (pve) gives higher income than used to. It's an other way to restablish balance between different security zones, if you increase isk generation in 0.0 and lowsec (bounties) and hisec stays the same, probably prices will raise lowering the adquistion power of hisec people but lowsec/nullsec people will retain it, restablishing some balance indirectlly. is a way to undirectlly nerf hisec without ragequit posts.
|
|
|
Glasyra
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 18:25:00 -
[51]
Right now there is massive over production vs whats being used. Back when goons were killing hulks in high sec, there was something like a 3-1 build ratio of new hulks coming into the game vs getting killed.
Right now the producers are so good there figthing over .1% cost to get the sale
At the same time just look at Jita, there are huge stocks of almost all kinds of ships right now just sitting around on the market. This stock is what keeps prices down.
Guess what this patch has done, its causing more ships to go boom, more ships going boom = more ship sales, more ship sales is good for the market of eve.
It will take a long time for prices to go up any real amount because most prices are at/below cost or sitting just above the insurance scam situation. Even when prices do go up (more ships are getting blown up) more builders will bring more ship building plants on-line to cover the gap caused by the price going up.
-----
Because I just confused myself it works like this
Right now a raven costs are about the same as the minerals going into the raven. at this price point only the people with level 5 skills, a shipment network yada yada can make any money (and those who mine the minerals themselves)
IF more ravens get blown up, raven sales go up but nothing changes much because the market is just flooded with ravens right now. Once the market sees that ravens are running out, the price will have moved up a bit and it will be profitable for people to buy mins and turn them into ravens. A new point will be established. Now this is the critical point, IF even more ravens get blown up then even more costly (thus profitable) build systems will come online allowing even more ravens to come on the market.
The end result will be that the raven will move up 5-10% at best unless a shortage of mins happens or the overall econ gets out of wack from a war torn world (this is a good thing).
After a long time, we will then see the price come back down somewhat, stabilizing at cost for the mins (like it did this time)
|
cho0li0
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 19:08:00 -
[52]
0.0 is more profitable than empire!
TO THE FORUMS! 
|
Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 19:14:00 -
[53]
wasn't like 90% of the responses to the dev blog where they announced the Pirate Detection Arrays "anoms suck, I'm going to go run level 4 missions instead"
You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
|
Haniblecter Teg
F.R.E.E. Explorer
Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 19:31:00 -
[54]
Originally by: steveid
Quote:
Pirate Detection Arrays
Each level of this upgrade gives you four anomalies per level, each of which re-spawns instantly upon completion. This mean that at Level 5 you are guaranteed to have twenty anomalies at all times in a system. These are basically dungeons which spawn waves of NPC's for you to happily shoot. The top level anomalies in terms of ISK per hour are among some of the most profitable content in the game.
These anomalies are awesome because there is a constant supply of them and there are no skill requirements to scan them down. They can be found by anyone using the onboard scanner with a 100% success rate. Basically, if you are in a system that's small enough to be covered by one probe, you will get the full list of available sites instantly and you can warp to them.
These anomalies also have a percentage chance to spawn NPC faction commanders, as well as escalate to other dungeons.
Let me give you a hypothetical.
An alliance has 120 active commited people. They split that into 5 groups of 20 combat fit ships, 1 group of 10 salvagers and 1 group of ten looters. They then warp a group of 20 to an anomaly, pretty much instapop it while the backup fleets loot and salvage.
As they do this another site respawns, rinse, repeat.
They can do this all day, every day.
This is bigger than fixed 10/10 complex's.
Its the equivalent of an unquenchable faucet of isk that the wore work you put it the more money you get out.
Its giving 0.0 alliances level 4 missions without needing to move systems that instarespawn when your done and drop faction loot.
Its a BIG problem.
The bounties are small, the real reward is officer loot, which doesnt 'add' to the total ISK. It isnt a 'faucet' in the EVE sense.
Unless you're refering to the ISK that a 00 entity can bring in, which should be alot, because it's 00 AND we lost our moon income.
-----------------
Friends Forever |
Mr Ignitious
Helljumpers
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 19:32:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Mikal Drey
[anecdotal]
the upgrades are tiered and each level of upgrade spawns that tier anomoly. a L1 upgrade spawns 4x frigate sized anomolies roughly mirroring a L1 mission. L2 frigate/cruiser L2 mission etc . . . . you get the point. . so a L4 anomoly will be the ones spawning battleships. this means that a L5 upgraded system will spawn 4x L1 4x L2 4x L3 4x L4 4x L5 tier anomolies NOT 20x L5 anomolies.
[/anecdotal]
This is an important thing to bring up if you ask me. Firstly: if this is the case, that doesn't even seem like that much isk entering the system even if you do coordinate together to rampage said CA's. Thats NOTHING compared to the likely around 20 lvl 4 missions being pooped out by penirgman, motsu, dodixie etc.
I think its kind of sad that the L1 CA's don't go away at any point... because those things are just obnoxious and a waste. L3+ for lvl 5 pirate detectors would be sweet. That would actually be able to start supporting individuals in an alliance.
However though, as I understand it, don't the quality of belt rats also increase in quality with some other upgrade as well?
Never the less I am now standing firmly beside there is no need for doom saying about economy crashing due to dominion.
I read the forums assuming there are no trolls, only really stupid people.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
|
Ava Starfire
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 19:44:00 -
[56]
0.0 should be more profitable than highsec...but sadly, they could make it 100x as profitable, and 95% of high sec players still wouldnt leave. Their loss, grats to you guys for getting an isk source that isnt related to moon goo.
Now CCP, fix losec income kthx.
Space is fun! |
Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 19:54:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Mr Ignitious
I think its kind of sad that the L1 CA's don't go away at any point... because those things are just obnoxious and a waste. L3+ for lvl 5 pirate detectors would be sweet. That would actually be able to start supporting individuals in an alliance.
Actually, that's one of the better features of the system as I see it – as with some of the skill changes, it allows more room for and assigns more usefulness to new players who want to get out into 0.0 early.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Zahorite
|
Posted - 2009.12.03 20:47:00 -
[58]
I'm just tired of people saying that these are more profitable than lvl 4 missions. Right now, no they aren't. Especially since they keep on running into bugs and not respawning like they are supposed to. Once that is fixed then we will see if they are actually more profitable than lvl 4's in high sec. From what I've seen they really just aren't living up to my expectations, especially since the onboard scanner sucks at tracking them which means I have to get rid of something in a high slot to fit a probe launcher now.
|
Mara Rinn
|
Posted - 2009.12.04 03:27:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Zahorite
... means I have to get rid of something in a high slot to fit a probe launcher now.
Don't you have folks hanging around in covops frigates watching gates and whatnot? Why can't they fleet-warp folks to anomalies or at least drop bookmarks in cans for you?
[Aussie players: join channel ANZAC] |
Juan Valhdez
|
Posted - 2009.12.04 04:59:00 -
[60]
Originally by: cho0li0
0.0 is more profitable than empire!
TO THE FORUMS!
|
|
|
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
|
Posted - 2009.12.04 05:05:00 -
[61]
deadspace items aren't a faucet - the isk (usually) comes from empire where lvl4-runners tap their faucets.
the overseer tiers are probably the biggest faucet in these 10/10s and that's not really something to go omgwtfbbq over...
but can i interest you in a look at the sov and upgrade costs? in about a week, we'll know how many trillions CCP pulls out of the game every month, hoping for more GTC purchases in return i guess
- 'cause they sure didn't implement that for the "little guy"
-
putting the gist back into logistics |
Sokratesz
|
Posted - 2009.12.04 05:47:00 -
[62]
Originally by: cho0li0
0.0 is more profitable than empire!
TO THE FORUMS!
This is an awesome post.
|
Zahorite
|
Posted - 2009.12.04 10:01:00 -
[63]
Well all of you can stop worrying now lol. As far as I can tell cosmic anomalies are broken, they only seem to respawn once a day. Some of them may respawn a bit more often but long before downtime they are no longer respawning and are just sitting there empty. Hopefully CCP will fix them soon.
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2009.12.04 12:58:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Misaki Yuuko
What only matters is, than similar isk earning/grinding activities related to pve, should be more profitable in 0.0 & lowsec than in hisec, not equal, neither less, but more. (and if 0.0 is more secure is because the players did it, and no, logging off/cloaking is not secure becausde you are losign time, but I'm sure you know this Akita).
You are forgetting a "little" thing. 0.0 (and low sec) as a extra wealth generating source in the form of moon minerals.
Discarding that from the wealth generated in 0.0 because most corporations don't share the profit with the corp members and instead the head of the corps keep it for themselves is the wrong approach.
0.0 as a total generate more isk for capita than high sec (note: generate, i.e. produce from external sources, like minerals, bounties and so on, trading don't generate anything, it convert wealth from items to isk and vice versa).
So, while it is right that the wealth generated in 0.0 (for each person) should be higher than what is generated in high sec, you should include all the wealth generated, not only what reach the wallet of the "average Joe", when you balance it.
I think Dominion (if all work as intended) is a step in the right direction with some redistribution, in 0.0, of the wealth generated from the corporation level to the player level.
The biggest doubt is if the corporations will be willing to spend isk to increase the single character capacity to earn wealth, especially when some of that gathered wealth will be from not easily taxable sources (high quality loot from top anomalies, whormoles, DED complexes).
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.12.04 14:15:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Misaki Yuuko
What only matters is, than similar isk earning/grinding activities related to pve, should be more profitable in 0.0 & lowsec than in hisec, not equal, neither less, but more. (and if 0.0 is more secure is because the players did it, and no, logging off/cloaking is not secure becausde you are losign time, but I'm sure you know this Akita).
You are forgetting a "little" thing. 0.0 (and low sec) as a extra wealth generating source in the form of moon minerals.
Discarding that from the wealth generated in 0.0 because most corporations don't share the profit with the corp members and instead the head of the corps keep it for themselves is the wrong approach.
0.0 as a total generate more isk for capita than high sec (note: generate, i.e. produce from external sources, like minerals, bounties and so on, trading don't generate anything, it convert wealth from items to isk and vice versa).
So, while it is right that the wealth generated in 0.0 (for each person) should be higher than what is generated in high sec, you should include all the wealth generated, not only what reach the wallet of the "average Joe", when you balance it.
I think Dominion (if all work as intended) is a step in the right direction with some redistribution, in 0.0, of the wealth generated from the corporation level to the player level.
The biggest doubt is if the corporations will be willing to spend isk to increase the single character capacity to earn wealth, especially when some of that gathered wealth will be from not easily taxable sources (high quality loot from top anomalies, whormoles, DED complexes).
On a per-capita basis, only a very few alliances have significant moon income. Imagine a fairly average 1000 man alliance with a 30 billion/month net moon income. That's a whopping 30M/member, about what they'd get from 1-3 hours ratting.
Alliances that fail to invest in resources for their members to access will fail for reasons that will be obvious (to anyone who has actually lived there).
|
Misaki Yuuko
|
Posted - 2009.12.04 15:35:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Misaki Yuuko on 04/12/2009 15:37:07
What Malcanis said, don't overestimate how much money can moon mining make for the whole of 0.0 population, and if CCP is doing what they want right that passive income is bveing reduced.
Meanwhile they have added additional operational costs which can be quite expensive, so reduced passive income and increased costs means that you need higher point active income, as they call it. Also I think you are not fair with the "moon income distribution amongst the alliance" problem.
First there is a lot of expensive **** that has to be paid (capital fleets, operating costs, infrastructure costs, specially with Dominion, and even titans have their usefullness for all the alliance even if they are expensive JB). Also competent alliances have replacement programs for when players are REALLY helping the alliance (CTA & fleet fights for important moons, space, whatever; or even on offensive to have fun), and finally there will be allways people who puts more effort than others, alliance leadership and dedicated logistics guys that keep your alliance going, so they deserve some payment for all the effort. How much is just a subjective vision and something that you need to come an agreegement for and negotiate (directlly or indirectlly, these things are done, if you dont have replacement progams while being a rich *** people will eventually quit).
I agree steeps are in the right direction but I don't think adequate balance has been archieved yet.
|
Sinnister
|
Posted - 2009.12.04 17:18:00 -
[67]
It doesn't matter how much ISK one can earn in 0.0. Some people will never leave empire, and I'll tell you why:
Time.
Some of us just don't have 4-6 hours per day to invest in a video game. I want to be able to pop on for an hour or so, earn some ISK, and not have to sit staring at a POS for my entire play time. Or sit in a system with 400 other people for 2 hours waiting for a 5 minute fleet battle.
That's why I left 0.0 in the first place, and no amount of ISK is going to drag me back. |
Forte Hauler
|
Posted - 2009.12.04 18:55:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Forte Hauler on 04/12/2009 18:55:27
<Sarcasm> conspire... we will see deflation and that was actually the hidden intent of CCP. It's part of shifting the New Player Experience in order to retain subscribers for longer... lower the cost of ships and mods so new players don't feel like those things are so far out of reach when their wallet is small in the beginning. Devaluing the ISK will hurt all of us current players (especially traders like me), but will be perfect for new players who can afford stuff much earlier in their carreers and hence will renew their subscriptions more.
</Sarcasm>
|
CocacCola FTMFW
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 04:34:00 -
[69]
So now that this mechanic is out there and its pretty easy to make 50 mil an hour solo and in groups that becomes closer to the 70 - 100 mil range, how does the community feel about this?
In the OP example that would mean 120 people making in the region of of 10 billion an hour is more than reasonable.
|
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 04:50:00 -
[70]
Originally by: CocacCola FTMFW
So now that this mechanic is out there and its pretty easy to make 50 mil an hour solo and in groups that becomes closer to the 70 - 100 mil range, how does the community feel about this?
In the OP example that would mean 120 people making in the region of of 10 billion an hour is more than reasonable.
Well considering that you can't run anomolies in your home system and level 4 empire missions with the same alt at the same time then it will have had little to no effect on the overall market. Well maybe refined t1 mission loot minerals might be taking a bit of a hit but I can't see anyone crying over that.
Originally by: Akita T
We don't hate people like you, we look at you with mostly pity and a hint of disgust balled up in a big wad of "notto disu shi'tto agen".
|
|
|
Veloni
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 04:53:00 -
[71]
Edited by: Veloni on 17/01/2010 04:55:10
quoted from the openingspost
"Its giving 0.0 alliances level 4 missions without needing to move systems that instarespawn when your done and drop faction loot."
First of all, I am against the nerfing of lvl4 missions, the full-time missionrunners are generally more casual, buy faction mods/etc or just keep all that isk on their wallet, who cares.
It gives a place if your isk situation is horrible as pvp'er, you can come back to, and grind some isk back again.
What I do want, is lowsec/0.0/wholes giving a bigger amount of isk, due to the higher risk/you need to defend your space/etc.
This basicly gives that, I don't see what's wrong with 0.0 alliances having their own lvl4's.
yes ratting was almost as good as lvl4's, but it had problems with 1 system just supporting 1 person, higher risk etc, so I don't see the problem with this, as long as it stays reasonable.
And if a lot of people start doing this, faction loot will drop in prices, making it less profitable after a while.
Short version:
high-sec is fine, but lowsec/null-sec should give higher rewards, and that is now the case with this in place, so it's fine.
|
price checkinho
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 05:41:00 -
[72]
Originally by: ViRUS Pottage
And the people safe in 1.0 making pretty much the same isn't a problem?
They are making 10-20 time less is the whole point of the OP I would think.
|
Alexi Sarivkov
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 06:48:00 -
[73]
Originally by: price checkinho
Originally by: ViRUS Pottage
And the people safe in 1.0 making pretty much the same isn't a problem?
They are making 10-20 time less is the whole point of the OP I would think.
The OP's argument is null. You face no danger in Empire when making isk.
You also have to think about the fact that Moon income has been nerfed in Dominion. There needs to be a way for them to make isk since now there is a lot of cost that goes into maintaining sovereignty. Not to mention you have to defend your space.
In the end it comes down to the simple fact of Risk vs. Reward....If you want the Higher rewards venture into low-sec/0.0 and make that isk....if you don't want the risk stay in empire and make still almost as much with no risk....
|
Venkul Mul
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 07:51:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Alexi Sarivkov
Originally by: price checkinho
Originally by: ViRUS Pottage
And the people safe in 1.0 making pretty much the same isn't a problem?
They are making 10-20 time less is the whole point of the OP I would think.
The OP's argument is null. You face no danger in Empire when making isk.
You also have to think about the fact that Moon income has been nerfed in Dominion. There needs to be a way for them to make isk since now there is a lot of cost that goes into maintaining sovereignty. Not to mention you have to defend your space.
In the end it comes down to the simple fact of Risk vs. Reward....If you want the Higher rewards venture into low-sec/0.0 and make that isk....if you don't want the risk stay in empire and make still almost as much with no risk....
Clap, clap
Wondrous false statements.
1) moon income has not been nerfed, it has been redistributed a bit but at least currently, there as been a overall increase in moon minerals payout.
2) you can face little danger doing missions in high sec, but between rats, suicide ganking and the different ways to try to get aggro against people there is still a level of danger.
|
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Military Research and Manufacturing Corp.
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 08:02:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Wondrous false statements.
1) moon income has not been nerfed, it has been redistributed a bit but at least currently, there as been a overall increase in moon minerals payout.
Nope, it has been nerfed when you factor in the costs. It is far more profitable to have a tiny few moons giving materials with very high prices per unit, than to have a large number of moons giving materials with moderate prices per unit.
Originally by: Akita T
this whole game is just me playing with myself
|
Spiney Norman
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 08:11:00 -
[76]
Why do these type of threads always end up as a level 4 mission whine?
There is still nothing as profitable as mining high end minerals croke -> ark in nice cosy safe alliance held space.
Boring as hell I'll agree, but that's no different from lvl 4's anyway
|
Bladexc
Caldari
Artificer Laboratories
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 08:33:00 -
[77]
i guess if they made this whole thing a little less cheap, like as in less anomalies in each system, i guess there would be no problem with it.
I mean its just another way to play the sandbox so.
You cannot experiance victory, if you have never experianced defeat... |
Hornymatt
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 08:56:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Spiney Norman
Why do these type of threads always end up as a level 4 mission whine?
There is still nothing as profitable as mining high end minerals croke -> ark in nice cosy safe alliance held space.
Boring as hell I'll agree, but that's no different from lvl 4's anyway
I have never mined in so-called "safe" alliance space (for obvious reasons) but I find ratting in a relatively quiet 0.0 system with 8-12 belts preferable to grinding lvl 4's in empire.
As long as I'm not spending too much time dodging people in local I can go from belt to belt shooting rats (at full bounty value) like a demented bumblebee
Out of interest, do these anomolies have rats at full bounties or the "discounted" bounties you get from mission running?
|
Vahligmarr
Minmatar
Tribal Core
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 09:28:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Sinnister
It doesn't matter how much ISK one can earn in 0.0. Some people will never leave empire, and I'll tell you why:
Time.
Some of us just don't have 4-6 hours per day to invest in a video game. I want to be able to pop on for an hour or so, earn some ISK, and not have to sit staring at a POS for my entire play time. Or sit in a system with 400 other people for 2 hours waiting for a 5 minute fleet battle.
-THAT-
+ even with pretty much maxed skills + equipment important for lvl4s, i dont feel it generates too much isk. if it would generate less, i would never grind for those items you guys find in o.o space.
with 1 or 2 hours time for eve a day, it still takes me some heavy lvl4 grinding to get a "crystal implant set" for example. mission running is stupid enough already, if it would generate less isk, ccp had to completely redo the pve part of the game, to keep it interesting for the pve player base. (which would be great)
i mean, compared to other mmo's pve part, it feels aged already. but thats another story.
it like somebody else already said, look what suits you most and let the others do theirs....
|
Shidhe
Minmatar
The Babylon5 Consortuim
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 10:46:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Shidhe on 17/01/2010 10:51:16
No objection to isk generation if it is vaguely balanced by destruction - as long as the system is monitored and corrected if necessary, it should be fine.
Insufficient data.
I would however like VERY occasional unexpected events in L4 - 0.0 PVE:
Angel fleet reports: `Pilot with -5.0 standing in system has just been probed down. Interceptors please engage.'
|
|
|
Furb Killer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 11:19:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 17/01/2010 11:19:54
Originally by: CocacCola FTMFW
So now that this mechanic is out there and it is possible to make 50 mil an hour solo and in groups that becomes closer to the 30-40 mil range, how does the community feel about this?
In the OP example that would mean 120 people making in the region of of 10 billion an hour is more than reasonable.
Fixed that for you. While in theory repping of npcs becomes less important in groups, in my experience the income actually decreases when you start adding more people (certainly with the ridiculous idea of using 10 people on one anomaly), while npc repping becomes less an issue other things become more, like locking time, warping to next one, hoping next one isnt taken allready, etc.
In the end anomalies might be a TAD more profitable than just doing lvl 4 missions, and you got 4 useful of them in a system with max upgrade. And that is assuming you live in one of the large wasteland empires where only once in a while a red comes by, and not in one of the busy systems which see more red activity (and more blue which means half of the time i warp to an anomaly it is allready taken). And additionally that is assuming you use a ship similar to what you would use for high sec missions, where you dont have any risk while in 0.0 there is enough risk you lose it.
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |