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NoMore PL
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.12.07 07:57:00 -
[1]
Edited by: NoMore PL on 07/12/2009 08:30:39
Investment: PL Theft
Sorry, this is going to be one insane wall of text. So here's something to break up the monotony. Besides, it appears my forum pic is unstable for some reason.
I have recently found myself in a position to 'acquire' a large amount of resources from Pandemic Legion during their evacuation. I would like to share with you, dear MD members, parts of my plan along with information on how you can help.
I would first like to clear up a misconception. No - this is not a common corp theft. I'm better than that. This is an alliance theft. I will make sure to only take alliance assets. I will never ever take corp or personal assets from people. We all work hard for that, this isn't going to hurt them.
I mulled over how to do this and get away with it for a long time. That's when I remembered the 'invest in the goon theft' MD thread. I know that's probably not the best comparison, since that was a scam (right?), but this is still my best shot. It's high risk, but is a noble cause. Please consider it.
Why am I doing this?
Well, as most of Eve knows, PL leadership has been rolling in some serious isk. Unfortunately, very little of this is ever benefiting the average alliance player. In fact, I'd estimate only 10 players have derived any direct benefit. I'm afraid that PL is going to fail cascade and three people are going to take everything and go to Jamaica or w/e it is they want to do. I can't take anything directly from them, but I can remove about half of what they're going to take with them.
Hurley is the other reason. If you don't know anything about this fiasco, go look at CAOD. Some IT spies pulled most (but not all) relevant SOT command chat logs. In a nutshell, SOT and PL leadership decided that Hurley was defecting and taking his titan with him. A lot of ****ing evidence was thrown around, and leadership decided to kill his titan. We did. After the dust settled, most of us realized we made a mistake. The evidence was circumstantial at best and outright nonexistant everywhere in between. ****zle himself has made some pretty direct threats about not mentioning this or reimbursing Hurley for the mistake. I'm not going to admit whether or not I was on the kill mail, but either way I did more to destroy Hurley's ship than a dread ever could. I realize I was coerced by corrupt leadership, and I have tried to stand up and do something about it. The diplomatic route is no longer working.
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NoMore PL
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.12.07 08:02:00 -
[2]
Edited by: NoMore PL on 07/12/2009 08:30:53
The first part of a business plan is the people. Who am I? Why am I so special? Why am I qualified to do this and what happens if I turn out to be incompetent?
Obviously, you know that I'm a newbie alt. That makes this proposal very high risk. I know that. Unfortunately, I need to remain anonymous. If all goes according to plan, I'll stay anonymous even after everything is said and done. The best I can do for the moment is give my full API key to investors with a significant investment so they at least know what's being done. I don't see any way to 'secure' this plan, but I'm open to suggestions. Past MD discussions have shown that Chribba is unwilling (good for him, seriously) to get involved in these things. I recall the F900EX guy 'stealing back' stolen goods that he secured the trade on.
Most everybody knows that PL is hoarding their treasure trove back in the npc areas of Fountain. Well - you're wrong. Leadership is going with the 'fat wallet, skinny hangar' mentality. We're moving most of our strategic assets into Outer Ring and we're liquidating the rest. This is where I come in. I am one of the players that has access to the goods we're liquidating. The plan right now is to begin evacuations the second week of dominion, when IT is busy hammering on near-invulnerable station system sov. The added chaos will create a very unique opportunity.
So, dear MD users, why do I need you? Simple. I need to get this done without a paper trail. The corp/alliance has my full api. This presents two main problems. Because of the high-valued goods shifted around by the alliance, the alliance has a program that automatically alerts leadership when a user's net asset values jump in a 24 hour period. I'm not quite sure what the value is, but I know from an inquisition (when a mate cashed in an officer drop) that it's definitely under 2 Bil. I can work around this easily enough, however. The second problem is the transaction logs. If I transfer anything to another player, it's going to be documented. I realize direct trades don't show what goods are transferred, but they still show a trade. I don't tend to direct trade with anybody but my alts (which are all API'd by the alliance). I'm sure when a hundred Bil pops up missing direct trades will be scrutinized pretty heavily.
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NoMore PL
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.12.07 08:09:00 -
[3]
Edited by: NoMore PL on 07/12/2009 08:31:08
So here's the plan. During parts of the upcoming movement phase when alliance assets are being tossed around I'm going to take them. At a bare minimum I know I can take 20 Bil of stuff without getting caught. I could do that today or tomorrow and nobody would be the wiser. When we're in the process of actually moving I can probably get 100 Bil or more over the period of a week.
Normally PL moves goods through regular freighters and titan bridges. I think we have the most titans per capita, so it's easy enough to do for alliance business. That said, I can't plan on using a titan bridge to help me steal tons and tons of loot from the alliance. I'll have to do it right under their nose. This is where the jump freighter comes in. I have a (normal) freighter pilot and a dread/carrier pilot so I understand the complexities of freighters and their limitations on scooping cargo as well as proper jumping techniques /cyno placement, etc.. To get items from my director main to the new freighter character I will transfer items into either my freighter or carrier and head out to a POS. If it's in my carrier, I'll jettison everything directly into space at the POS. If I'm taking my freighter I'll have to let it touch the corp hangar first, then pull it out into a cargo can with another ship. Meanwhile, I can get the neut JF into the POS to scoop the loot and head out. I should not have a problem getting a neutral JF pilot into system and inside the tower. There will be more information on that later.
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NoMore PL
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.12.07 08:14:00 -
[4]
Edited by: NoMore PL on 07/12/2009 08:31:24
Here's what I need (at a minimum):
JF Pilot. Corp history is more important to me than skills or freighter types. A character that's been in GS or BoB/Kenny is going to draw more attention that one who's spent his entire eve life in Hedion University.
Price: 2-8Bil.
Actual JF.
Price: 3.5-5Bil
What I'd like to add (reduces risk):
Money for wardecs. We have tons and tons of JF traffic helping with the move. Since these guys have to go to empire they're mostly alt corps that we set blue. There are still a few that end up in newbie corps though. I would like to have enough wardec isk to get all the jump freighters into newbie corps. This will prevent my newbie alt JF from sticking out. This shouldn't be too difficult. I know most, if not all, of the alt freighters that PL uses and I can follow them through corp hops. How does a neut corp really help? There's a good group of us (myself included) that light friendly cynos all the time. A simple password (no corp/alliance access restrictions) will get you into some of the intel channels. If a request goes up, a blue lights the cyno that a neut jumps to, and no questions will be asked. Getting the character into an alt corp will be harder, and will probably require an api key.
Price: 1-5 Bil (varies greatly).
Minimum needed:
5.5 Bil - Note: This is the absolute bare bones bottom here. It requires a sweet deal on a character and on one that uses a very cheap freighter.
Would really like to have:
13 Bil - Note: This buys virtually any JF character and any JF type.
Max needed:
18 Bil - Note: Buys all above plus enough isk to wardec all the current JF pilots.
Where does the isk go?
The first bit goes to paying you off. 100%, no bull****. If I get exactly 10 Bil from the MD people, and only manage to get 10 Bil worth of stuff, you guys get your investment back first and foremost.
I mentioned before that I am unhappy with Hurley getting screwed and member corps seeing nothing of PL's pot of gold. Once you guys have broken even, profits will be split amongst you, the PL member corps, Hurley, and myself. The MD investment group will get 20%, member corps will get 30%, Hurley will get 30%, and I will get 20%.
If/once 50 Bil has been returned to Hurley I will consider his titan loss payed for by PL. The new split will be 20% to the MD investment group, 50% to the member corps and 30% to myself.
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NoMore PL
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.12.07 08:19:00 -
[5]
Edited by: NoMore PL on 07/12/2009 08:31:41
Expected returns:
I will be able to steal 20 Bil. This can and is going to happen with or without this proposal getting funded.
If the plan totally flops, this is the minimum you'll get. This is considering the freighter blowing up and me having to steal everything the old-fashioned way with a carrier jump. Note this will be a one-time shot in that case. In this case I will also sell the freighter pilot back to help recoup costs. You will still see, however, a return of everything plus 2 Bil. That's an 11% return.
- Show quoted text -
If this plan is funded fully, I should be able to steal 40 Bil easily.
In worst-case version of this, it's a return of (30*.2)/18 = 33% return.
I plan on stealing 100 Bil within a week of moving. This estimate is a reasonable guess, and not an upper limit.
If I can pull this off, it means you'll get back double your money. 100% return.
The SWOT short list:
Strengths:
I can do it. I'm upset enough with PL that I will do it.
I believe this will not be a one-time gig, but a business of sorts that will last until PL completely locks down their assets or disbands.
I am 'a good person'. As such, I believe my reputation within my corporation and alliance are above reproach.
Weaknesses (same):
I can't give MD the proof or liability it needs. I realize I'm an anonymous face in an anonymous crowd.
Opportunities:
Lots and lots of isk. And if this goes to plan it can keep coming for a long time. I have not included a payment cap for the MD people.
Threats:
Discovery. If I'm somehow discovered or the JF gets destroyed, it's going to be a problem. If this happens I will sell the character back and recover as much isk as possible. More details are in the payouts section.
PL Re-organization. I believe I know how to steal assets and get them out unnoticed. If I manage to steal enough to truly cripple the alliance they may change their standard operating procedure and make this much harder.
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Aerilis
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Posted - 2009.12.07 08:21:00 -
[6]
wat
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NoMore PL
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.12.07 08:25:00 -
[7]
Edited by: NoMore PL on 07/12/2009 08:36:01
^^ Thanks for respecting my reserve countdown. 
 Originally by: Aerilis
wat
-------------------------------------------------------
FAQ
- Q: Is this a scam?
A: It's going to be very hard for me to prove otherwise. If you have a bit of unused isk that you're having trouble investing, you really have nothing to lose on this. If it goes through, the payout will be very high.
- Q: If I invest, will my character be revealed?
A: No. I understand this is a sensitive subject. If you wish to remain anonymous, I am willing to do that for you. **Read Below
- Q: When do you need the isk and when do we get payed?
A: The sooner the better. If I have more time to prepare everything will be done less sloppy. Once I have raised enough capital to buy the JF and character the first theft will occur within one week. You can plan on receiving your first payment the week before Christmas.
[*]Q: Can I know the identity of your main?
A: No. I consider it a considerable risk to me for very little gain. I'm stealing a lot from PL. I'd prefer if they never found out who this is. I considered allowing a third party audit, but after reading up on Yih's scam I don't think I'm open to the idea. It's too easy to fake a supporter for me to see any benefit (extra trust) I would gain for it.
** It occurred to me that full api + complete anonymity is not possible. So - when you pledge or send your isk tell me if the full api is a requirement for you. If you wish to remain anonymous make sure you tell me so. I will see which one works best and can unfortunately only take offers from one group or another. Also, if I have any significant investments from PL or friends, full api access will not be given. Obviously, the plan will be foiled if anybody finds my freighter character.
Last Minute PS: FYI - I thought I could post three days after making an account, not three days after subbing it up. Please consider that this proposal was written right before dominion DT. Some information is slightly dated, but the plan is still sound, and can be done. With the extra time I had, I discovered the goon thing was indeed a scam. Yeah, probably not going to help my chances. So what's different between his scam and my proposal? For one, I've detailed very very clearly why I need the isk (to hide from full api searches). He gave vague details of 'hiring' people. He wanted 120 Bil from the MD investors. I want 18. In my case investors will (probably) be given full API access. This will show that this character is a true alt, with no other characters (besides the one I want to purchase) on the account. That shows that I threw RL money into this venture to sub up the account (to post on the forums).
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NoMore PL
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.12.07 08:30:00 -
[8]
Edited by: NoMore PL on 07/12/2009 08:32:12
Finally, I would like to get some feedback on how to best distribute the payouts to the investors. This is an important detail, and affects the minimum purchase amount. Are corporation shares a good/common way to make payouts? Are there any flaws in using shares that I am unaware of? If I can use corp shares to distribute isk, I can leave the minimum buy-in very low because there is less work for me. However, if I need to calculate payouts in excel (which I will probably do either way) and manually send isk to every buyer, I will probably increase the minimum buy-in considerably.
At this time the minimum buy-in is 50 mil. Isk will be accepted in 50 mil increments (so 50M, 100M, 150M, 200M, etc. is fine). The minimum buy-in will probably go up if I discover that corp shares cannot be used to easily pay you for your investments. If this happens, however, I will grandfather in anybody that sent isk before the minimum went up. Because sooner is better in this case, there will be no 'reserving' payment slots. This opportunity is first come first serve. |
NoMore PL
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.12.07 08:35:00 -
[9]
Edited by: NoMore PL on 07/12/2009 09:03:06
Hi. My name's PL and my social security number is:
Here's part of proving my character. If anonymity is wanted by investors this will go away or be made private.
User ID: 5972655
Limited API Key: BB25304C99C141A4A70AAC2E0CFF766CCDD741F0C675473A92E08D0410E44A37
Full API Key: 6E129946F376498A8FF1876DCFBA951C1CE21019622D4AA9ADC99D53926F9E91
Edit: TL/DR version of above 6 posts.
I'm looking for up to 18 Bil for buying a no-paper-trail JFer and character. Expected minimum return is 33%. Expected maximum return is 100%.
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flakeys
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.12.07 08:36:00 -
[10]
o/ yih how's it going?
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Frenden Dax
Dax Acquisitions
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Posted - 2009.12.07 08:49:00 -
[11]
Look guys, Yih is back for more. This time he's roleplaying a disaffected PL member, how cute.
Originally by: Karanth
Or, in other words, random people can't usurp rights from government because they are insane/bitter/vengeful/made of potato salad.
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NoMore PL
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.12.07 08:54:00 -
[12]
Edited by: NoMore PL on 07/12/2009 09:04:44
Edited by: NoMore PL on 07/12/2009 08:57:48
Originally by: flakeys
o/ yih how's it going?
Honestly, that makes me sad. I detailed very clearly how I'm different from him. Also, as I said, I got the idea of coming to MD from his heist. Am I looking for 100 Bil? No. 18. Come on.
Edit: Also, feel free to check out my full api I offered up as some form of proof.
Edit2:
Also, I have this post where I'm looking to buy some wardecs. If any of you MD people are up to the challenge please reply there.
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Thoraemond
Minmatar
Far Ranger
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Posted - 2009.12.07 09:17:00 -
[13]
Originally by: NoMore PL
I am 'a good person'. As such, I believe my reputation within my corporation and alliance are above reproach.
Based on your willingness to steal from your own alliance, it would appear that you are in fact not 'a good person', even if you have built up such a reputation in your alliance.
You have explained to us why your own alliance should not trust you, and your posted plan itself is proof enough of this.
Why should anyone else trust you?
Originally by: NoMore PL
Max needed: 18 Bil
Where does the ISK go?
The first bit goes to paying you off. 100%, no bull**** [sic]. [...]
Once you guys have broken even, profits will be split amongst you, the PL member corps, Hurley, and myself. The MD investment group will get 20%, member corps will get 30%, Hurley will get 30%, and I will get 20%.
If/once 50 Bil has been returned to Hurley I will consider his titan loss payed for by PL. The new split will be 20% to the MD investment group, 50% to the member corps and 30% to myself.
You say you can steal 20 billion ISK right now without needing to call on investors. Let's say you raise 18 billion ISK. So that's 38 billion ISK in your pocket.
Stealing and paying out as you indicate here, you would need to steal fully 207 billion ISK to get back to that position of having 38 billion ISK in your own pocket. Getting to 207 billion ISK seems optimistic, even by your own description.
You have established by making this post that you are not trustworthy. Why should we take your word for it that you would not just abscond with the 38 billion rather than doing all that additional work just to get yourself back to that same position?
Originally by: NoMore PL
If this plan is funded fully, I should be able to steal 40 Bil easily. In worst-case version of this, it's a return of (30*.2)/18 = 33% return.
You should at least make your write-up internally consistent. If you raised 18 billion from investors and stole 40 billion, according to the formula you posted, the investors would get a return of (22 * .2) / 18 = 24%.
Originally by: NoMore PL
[Yih] wanted 120 Bil from the MD investors. I want 18.
Are you suggesting that because you are less ambitious, this shows that you are more trustworthy? The two concepts are not tied together in that way.
Originally by: NoMore PL
I got the idea of coming to MD from [Yih's] heist.
Even assuming for the sake of argument that you are not Yih, and this assertion is true, that still wouldn't suggest trustworthiness on your part.
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Roguehalo
Caldari
Kimoto Innovations
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Posted - 2009.12.07 09:22:00 -
[14]
Ok I'm going to take this seriously and assume that this is entirely legit.
I didn't totally digest the wall of text but it seems like if we give you 18b you can steal lots and lots of stuff. When you've stolen lots and lots of stuff you give us our 18b back and a profit on top.
But hang on a minute. You're a thief, a crook, or whatever. You've told us that. You seem quite proud of your 'thief' status.
So ok.........it's all legit and above board but why on earth would I believe you will return investors' isk ? Because you're honest? 
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Estel Arador
Minmatar
AFK
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Posted - 2009.12.07 09:24:00 -
[15]
Originally by: NoMore PL
That's when I remembered the 'invest in the goon theft' MD thread. I know that's probably not the best comparison, since that was a scam (right?),
That was the only sensible thing in there.
Free jumpclone service: Thread|Shares available! |
flakeys
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.12.07 09:27:00 -
[16]
He is also forgetting why yih even got the 4-ish Bille out of his offer.The utter dislike to GS from a handfull of people , wich included me.
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Thoraemond
Minmatar
Far Ranger
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Posted - 2009.12.07 09:35:00 -
[17]
Originally by: NoMore PL
[F]eel free to check out my full api I offered up as some form of proof.
Proof of what, exactly?
In some cases, a Full API can show a pilot's trading history or other information that can help potential investors assess an offering. Even then if cannot prove an absence of intention to scam.
What 'proof' is there in your pilot's information that would support your claims?
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Elise Randolph
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.07 09:47:00 -
[18]
I have 17 mil, can I help?
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Kenneth McCoy
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.07 09:53:00 -
[19]
this thread
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David Khan
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.07 09:56:00 -
[20]
Well, you're not in PL.
I'll put 500m in.
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Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2009.12.07 11:14:00 -
[21]
Stale copypasta is stale.
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Selena Mist
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Posted - 2009.12.07 11:16:00 -
[22]
Allot of text for a simple scam..
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Utemetsu
Caldari
Parahelion Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.07 11:39:00 -
[23]
If only from a common sense point, I doubt you'll get anything. The Yih debocle left a sour taste in everyone's mouth (and it was expected) and there really isn't a market for 'investing' in a corporate theft. The question is: Why on earth do you need any money from MD when you can just STEAL it? Isn't the idea of theft to make money WITHOUT working or spending to do so?
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Turiel Demon
Minmatar
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2009.12.07 12:27:00 -
[24]
It's what, a whole week since Yih? Give it a rest, let some new scrubs arrive in here that you can swindle first.
Actually, no never mind, you'll probably still find investors
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2009.12.07 12:57:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Turiel Demon
It's what, a whole week since Yih? Give it a rest, let some new scrubs arrive in here that you can swindle first.
Actually, no never mind, you'll probably still find investors
Yih found investors didn't he?
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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flakeys
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.12.07 13:21:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jin Nib
Originally by: Turiel Demon
It's what, a whole week since Yih? Give it a rest, let some new scrubs arrive in here that you can swindle first.
Actually, no never mind, you'll probably still find investors
Yih found investors didn't he?
As stated above , he had the purpose of hurting goons.That is something else then finding investors to help you steal from people you have known and who trust you for a long time.
You have only one chance, find one investor who is crazy enough to take this offer entirely.Otherwise i don't ever see it take off.
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SetrakDark
Caldari
DarkCorp Technology and Finance
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Posted - 2009.12.07 13:40:00 -
[27]
This **** is what we get for engaging garbage threads instead of mocking them right off the 1st page.
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Dzil
Caldari
RED DESCENT
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Posted - 2009.12.07 14:15:00 -
[28]
I do not believe in the entire history of MD that there has been a successful investment
(defined as all investors being repaid according to the terms of the investment) that involved stealing as the plan to generate revenue.
The primary reason, as stated above, is there's zero security/assurance offered by the reputation of such an individual that openly confesses a plan of theft. The only way this deserves investment is if you can secure it 100% with collateral in the hands of a trusted (non-stealing) 3rd party, and unfortunately anyone holding such assets risks tilting their neutrality with the victimized alliance.
Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m |
flakeys
T.H.U.G L.I.F.E
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.12.07 14:24:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Dzil
I do not believe in the entire history of MD that there has been a successful investment
(defined as all investors being repaid according to the terms of the investment) that involved stealing as the plan to generate revenue.
The primary reason, as stated above, is there's zero security/assurance offered by the reputation of such an individual that openly confesses a plan of theft. The only way this deserves investment is if you can secure it 100% with collateral in the hands of a trusted (non-stealing) 3rd party, and unfortunately anyone holding such assets risks tilting their neutrality with the victimized alliance.
I would hold such a collateral without any prob or hesitation and i think it should be obvious i would not walk away with it since my investments in MD exceed that amount by far.
However i am 100% sure the OP would never do such a thing.
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.12.07 14:27:00 -
[30]
Even a basic JF Character with a Ship doesn't cost 18B.
I tell you what buddy, why don't you take some of your HIGHLY creative thoughts and throw them into actually doing something to make ISK. You dump a lot of time and effort into things like this. If you spent the same amount of time and effort on doing something constructive you might make 18B in the time it took to you come up with the idea, formulate a plan, write a wall of text, and string people along for a month or two before revealing....
Now stop with the crap and get out, or come back with something that is rock solid and full collateral by someone trusted in MD, because that's the ONLY way you'll get an investment now.
Amarr for Life |
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