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Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
94
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Posted - 2012.06.27 08:50:00 -
[61] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Dave stark wrote:........ where do people keep getting the idea hulks/macks are getting less ehp? what have i missed? nowhere does it say they will be reducing the ehp of anything, infact "Resilience: another point is to give some of them proper EHP not to be one-shot by anything that even remotely sneezes on them." says the direct opposite. From the Dev blog "Covetor/hulk: ore bay is identical to its current cargo hold, little to average EHP,..." Currently with reasonable fits Skiff EHP: 13000 Mac EHP: 18000 Hulk EHP: 23000 Average EHP: 18000 So the Hulk will have a tank that is equal to or less than 18000 EHP. Which brings the question for CCP: When you say the new Hulk will have an average EHP, average of what? Current Exhumers? Marauders? Titans?
as you pointed out, we have no context from which we can draw an average. the statement about wanting to stop barges being 1shot by almost everything still implies all the ships are only going to go up in ehp, not down. |
Jugon
Blackstar Galactic Industries
0
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Posted - 2012.06.28 19:35:00 -
[62] - Quote
Since we are talking about the upcoming mining changes. I think that it is about time that CCP recognizes that mining ships need to be overhauled and for the most part I agree with these changes. However, what has been posted thus far, is just vague wordings that really don't tell us much about anything that is coming other than.
1) Mining ships will be getting Ore bays 2) We will finally have a Mining ship that can have the EHP of a BS 3) That each ship will have some form of "role" 4) That each ship will be brought to within some margin of the hulk.
I believe that the announcement of the mining ship that can have the EHP of a BS , is long overdue and my question for CCP would be.
When will mining receive the complete overhaul that it needs ? (With the current information that has been released it reads a band-aid fix).
1) Mining ships do not properly scale in defense-ability with the rest of ships in eve, as every mining ship until you reach the Orca can be ganked by a destroyer. Yes you can fit mining ships to "TANK" but in general by doing so you are sacrificing something, whether it be yield rate, or other ship bonuses. For almost every combat ship you can max it's survivability without sacrificing it's designed functionality.
2) Non interactivity and "AFK Mining" ... How do you determine an AFK Miner from a Non AFK Miner. An AFK Miner is someone that doesn't instantly panic and warp out of a belt when a Unknown Ship warps into the same belt. (Talking high sec, Null sec flys by a different set of rules) , this is because our mining cycles take so long to process, that even though we may be there, we look like we are AFK.
3) As others have commented when will we get either a Sub-Capital (orca class) or Capital(rorq class) mining ship that is actually capable of Mining, instead of Squad boosting. The Orca and Rorq both have their roles, and do a great job at it, but as soon as you reach the hulk, your only option is to train to be a fleet booster. |
Crimson Vectore
AMLS Corporation COF Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.06.29 08:31:00 -
[63] - Quote
To be honest I just want ORE industrials that can haul ore. The Primae and Noctis are only good for salvaging, that's if , of course you fit cargo expansion rigs and t2 cargo extenders. Basically you have two ships that need to be riced up just to fulfill their roles. They'll never pay for themselves and to be honest I have no clue why they're even in the game. Just give us a hauler. |
Jelizza Arlath
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2012.06.29 10:04:00 -
[64] - Quote
Game needs a non-jumpengine freighter with 300-350km3 cargobays.
The industrials, including the transports, are too small for moving anything but modules and ammo.
The orca can be used, but it's still only 100km3.
And next one up is freighters with 900km3.... kinda hate flying halffull freighters, which is what I end up doing alot since 300-350km3 is the shipment size I move the most. |
Aaron Younger
0
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Posted - 2012.06.29 15:20:00 -
[65] - Quote
Crimson Vectore wrote:To be honest I just want ORE industrials that can haul ore. The Primae and Noctis are only good for salvaging, that's if , of course you fit cargo expansion rigs and t2 cargo extenders. Basically you have two ships that need to be riced up just to fulfill their roles. They'll never pay for themselves and to be honest I have no clue why they're even in the game. Just give us a hauler.
The orca can haul around 3million m3 of compressed ore and the Rorqual can do almost 3 times that plus it can jump. I don't think we need another hauler ship they both do great.
I'm not sure what your doing wrong but my Noctis paid for itself in 3 days of casual ratting and I use T1 salvager rigs not T2 extenders maybe that's your problem. AS for the Primae, I'm not really sure why anyone would use it a cloaked up Indy ship works better for setting up PI.
As for the future of mining. I think after the new ship concepts are rolled out and the bugs are ironed, CCP should look into revamping the Null Sec Industrial Index system. Right now there is no reason to get the index up past level 3. If you need more gravs because you have that many mines then branch out to another system and get that one to level 3 you keep mining them out over and over for the best ISK/hr. They should make it worthwhile to get the index up and I would love to see more Veld in each of the asteroids in the gravs. Right now the Veld roids can be stripped by one ship in a matter of minutes. |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
97
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Posted - 2012.06.29 15:30:00 -
[66] - Quote
Aaron Younger wrote:The orca can haul around 3million m3 of compressed ore
correct me if i'm mistaken, but you can't compress ore in high sec. so it's totally irrelevant how much compressed ore an orca can haul. |
Aaron Younger
0
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Posted - 2012.06.29 15:39:00 -
[67] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Aaron Younger wrote:The orca can haul around 3million m3 of compressed ore correct me if i'm mistaken, but you can't compress ore in high sec. so it's totally irrelevant how much compressed ore an orca can haul.
Then you can only haul just under 200k m3. Which is about 6.5 - 7 cans full. Sorry but I can't feel sorry for your "plight,' High Sec doesn't need to become even easier. Find a system with a station in it and haul it to the station and and come back for more ore. Refine, and either use the minerals to build or ship them in a freighter to sale. |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
97
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Posted - 2012.06.29 15:56:00 -
[68] - Quote
Aaron Younger wrote:Dave stark wrote:Aaron Younger wrote:The orca can haul around 3million m3 of compressed ore correct me if i'm mistaken, but you can't compress ore in high sec. so it's totally irrelevant how much compressed ore an orca can haul. Then you can only haul just under 200k m3. Which is about 6.5 - 7 cans full. Sorry but I can't feel sorry for your "plight,' High Sec doesn't need to become even easier. Find a system with a station in it and haul it to the station and and come back for more ore. Refine, and either use the minerals to build or ship them in a freighter to sale.
it's not my plight.
i was just pointing out that if you're using an orca then you're probably in high sec. or if you can compress it means you have a rorqual, which has more space so you won't be using the orca anyway. |
Crimson Vectore
AMLS Corporation COF Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.06.29 18:36:00 -
[69] - Quote
Aaron Younger wrote:Crimson Vectore wrote:To be honest I just want ORE industrials that can haul ore. The Primae and Noctis are only good for salvaging, that's if , of course you fit cargo expansion rigs and t2 cargo extenders. Basically you have two ships that need to be riced up just to fulfill their roles. They'll never pay for themselves and to be honest I have no clue why they're even in the game. Just give us a hauler. The orca can haul around 3million m3 of compressed ore and the Rorqual can do almost 3 times that plus it can jump. I don't think we need another hauler ship they both do great. I'm not sure what your doing wrong but my Noctis paid for itself in 3 days of casual ratting and I use T1 salvager rigs not T2 extenders maybe that's your problem. AS for the Primae, I'm not really sure why anyone would use it a cloaked up Indy ship works better for setting up PI. As for the future of mining. I think after the new ship concepts are rolled out and the bugs are ironed, CCP should look into revamping the Null Sec Industrial Index system. Right now there is no reason to get the index up past level 3. If you need more gravs because you have that many mines then branch out to another system and get that one to level 3 you keep mining them out over and over for the best ISK/hr. They should make it worthwhile to get the index up and I would love to see more Veld in each of the asteroids in the gravs. Right now the Veld roids can be stripped by one ship in a matter of minutes.
My point is that there should be some middle ground. Right now I'm limited to industrials because I don't have the proper skills to pilot an Orca and even if I did I'd be too broke to buy one, it's just not fair that there's such a huge gap. Basically I'm stuck piloting a Bestower with only 13k m3 and it's too small. Cater to the middle class plox. |
Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
98
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Posted - 2012.06.29 18:50:00 -
[70] - Quote
Crimson Vectore wrote:Basically I'm stuck piloting a Bestower with only 13k m3 and it's too small. Cater to the middle class plox.
impel, nearly triple the cargo for just a week or two's training and won't really break the bank in terms of isk. |
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Kalea Hashur
Promethium Corp. Army of Dark Shadows
5
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Posted - 2012.06.29 19:58:00 -
[71] - Quote
Crimson Vectore wrote: My point is that there should be some middle ground. Right now I'm limited to industrials because I don't have the proper skills to pilot an Orca and even if I did I'd be too broke to buy one, it's just not fair that there's such a huge gap. Basically I'm stuck piloting a Bestower with only 13k m3 and it's too small. Cater to the middle class plox.
With Industrial 4 and, Cargo Expander II's, and Cargo Optimizer rigs, my Bestower handles about 22k m3. Toss in 7 giant containers and it's up to 28k and change when I'm hauling low volume items like ammo and minerals.
But I agree, there needs to be another step between Industrials and Freighters. Orca isn't the solution, but another variant of the Orca that was created for it would be a cool idea. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
781
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 20:33:00 -
[72] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Dave stark wrote:........ where do people keep getting the idea hulks/macks are getting less ehp? what have i missed? nowhere does it say they will be reducing the ehp of anything, infact "Resilience: another point is to give some of them proper EHP not to be one-shot by anything that even remotely sneezes on them." says the direct opposite. From the Dev blog "Covetor/hulk: ore bay is identical to its current cargo hold, little to average EHP,..." Currently with reasonable fits Skiff EHP: 13000 Mac EHP: 18000 Hulk EHP: 23000 Average EHP: 18000 So the Hulk will have a tank that is equal to or less than 18000 EHP. Which brings the question for CCP: When you say the new Hulk will have an average EHP, average of what? Current Exhumers? Marauders? Titans? as you pointed out, we have no context from which we can draw an average. the statement about wanting to stop barges being 1shot by almost everything still implies all the ships are only going to go up in ehp, not down.
Aye, the first part was my pointing out the basis for the panicky rumor that hulks might actually end up with less tank. But right now Hulks do not get one shot by anything that remotely sneezes on them, so its possible they will continue with about as much tank as now. We just do not know. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
781
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 20:38:00 -
[73] - Quote
Aaron Younger wrote:Crimson Vectore wrote:To be honest I just want ORE industrials that can haul ore. The Primae and Noctis are only good for salvaging, that's if , of course you fit cargo expansion rigs and t2 cargo extenders. Basically you have two ships that need to be riced up just to fulfill their roles. They'll never pay for themselves and to be honest I have no clue why they're even in the game. Just give us a hauler. The orca can haul around 3million m3 of compressed ore and the Rorqual can do almost 3 times that plus it can jump. I don't think we need another hauler ship they both do great. I'm not sure what your doing wrong but my Noctis paid for itself in 3 days of casual ratting and I use T1 salvager rigs not T2 extenders maybe that's your problem. AS for the Primae, I'm not really sure why anyone would use it a cloaked up Indy ship works better for setting up PI. As for the future of mining. I think after the new ship concepts are rolled out and the bugs are ironed, CCP should look into revamping the Null Sec Industrial Index system. Right now there is no reason to get the index up past level 3. If you need more gravs because you have that many mines then branch out to another system and get that one to level 3 you keep mining them out over and over for the best ISK/hr. They should make it worthwhile to get the index up and I would love to see more Veld in each of the asteroids in the gravs. Right now the Veld roids can be stripped by one ship in a matter of minutes.
How about with higher industrial levels you could anchor "asteroid scanning arrays" that wold find (that is, cause to spawn) belts heavy in whatever ore you wanted? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
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