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Vargur--Is a ton of tracking worth it?

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Gravy Fries	Posted - 2010.01.02 05:54:00 - [1] I recently got my hands on a Vargur, and absolutely love it for running level 4's. It's abilities are nothing short of staggering, and the amount of time this ship saves running these kinds of missions is jaw-dropping. While I was doing them, I kept a close eye on the angular velocity of the npc's. Only once or twice did they ever get close to the tracking of my guns. In almost every other circumstance, is seems, the enemies get blown apart before they can get within 10km to even become a tracking issue. I was using 1x TC with a tracking script, and 1x TE. Again, PLENTY of tracking. But then I started playing around with putting an optimal range script in the TC... I figured that, if I wasn't using the tracking speed, why not put the bonus toward more falloff? More applied dps, especially within that magical "half-falloff" range where the hit chance doesn't degrade so sharply. I've noticed much of the conversations about the Vargur here on the forums tend to focus quite a bit on maximizing tracking speed, and it's making me wonder "amidoinitrite?" Do you other Vargur pilots hit the afterburner and go max speed right into the thick of a nest of battleships in order to really focus that dps and, therefore, need the tracking speed due to the tight orbits? Or do you mostly do what I've been doing and chew them up outside of 10km as they close distance (I rarely move, quite frankly). I've been considering getting another TC and fitting yet another range script on it in order to improve the dps profile even further. So... Is a ton of tracking speed worth it?
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2010.01.02 06:23:00 - [2] I use optimal scripts. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Newbie Ned Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.02 06:51:00 - [3] Since Dominion I have also become lazy with the Vargur. Anything smaller than a BS pops so easily - anything inside 50km I don't think twice about, although that makes salvaging as you go trickier. I will head towards BS to get more dps and to make the subsequent salvage quicker. In most missions the biggest time limitation is how quickly I can click on things! Occasionally frigs will get in close (not clicking quick enough!) but that gives my drones something to do. I will keep the AB, though, it is handy when you have to move - I can't stand slow boating.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2010.01.02 09:08:00 - [4] Edited by: Naomi Knight on 02/01/2010 09:10:51 Vargur is awesome mine does 800dps(t1 ammo) with 70km falloff+drones and have a 580dps sustained omni tank with AB mounted. I usually start killing frigs first,most of those can be 1 shotted up to 50km easily, while I go closer to bses. Oh and it can track even destroyers at their orbit range. Imho vargur >> other marauders :)
Omar Khayyam Minmatar	Posted - 2010.01.02 10:28:00 - [5] Originally by: Naomi Knight Edited by: Naomi Knight on 02/01/2010 09:10:51 Vargur is awesome mine does 800dps(t1 ammo) with 70km falloff+drones and have a 580dps sustained omni tank with AB mounted. I usually start killing frigs first,most of those can be 1 shotted up to 50km easily, while I go closer to bses. Oh and it can track even destroyers at their orbit range. Imho vargur >> other marauders :) agreed. After dominion i decided to stay in vargur and cancelled training for a golem ------------------------------------------------ cruisers used to be a great power when i started this game :)
Merbusent	Posted - 2010.01.02 11:02:00 - [6] I fear a lot for typeing anything negative about the vargur, but come on a bils worth of faction for a maelstrom?!
Alpha India	Posted - 2010.01.02 15:41:00 - [7] Originally by: Merbusent I fear a lot for typeing anything negative about the vargur, but come on a bils worth of faction for a maelstrom?! 'Tis no Maelstrom!
Gravy Fries	Posted - 2010.01.02 15:52:00 - [8] Originally by: Merbusent I fear a lot for typeing anything negative about the vargur, but come on a bils worth of faction for a maelstrom?! The Vargur has two key bonuses that the Maelstrom does not. Being an AC boat, the 7.5% bonus to tracking is great for being able to hit things that get a little too close (although the original point of my thread was to debate whether extra tracking beyond this was worth it). The second bonus, and arguably the Vargur's best selling point, is the 10% falloff bonus. This comes off of the Minnie BS skill, so as soon as you climb into the Vargur, you're enjoying a whopping 50% to falloff that you wouldn't get in the Maelstrom. This allows the Vargur to shoot AC's to insane-o distances. Using 3x T2 Ambits, a TE and 2x TC's with optimal scripts and Fusion ammo, my falloff is 74km (with Barrage it's 111km). What this means is the Vargur can apply approx. 80% of it's dps at 37 km. Inside 20km, and you're closing in on 100% Inside 15km or so, and you're pretty much there--1000 dps. This is enough to almost completely forego any kind of a tank whatsoever. Ships fly apart so quickly that I don't drop drones any more except for the occasional close frigate that doesn't get insta-popped at 50km. I was daunted by the price tag, too, but the Vargur runs missions so much faster than my old Maelstrom it's almost hard to believe. I was running some missions with some corp mates a few days ago in order to get their standings up. They were in a Vexor and a destroyer to "keep the small ships off me". Well, they rarely ever had the chance to engage anything, frigate or otherwise. I had to consciously let ships through the face-melting dps so they would have something to do. It's that effing awesome.
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2010.01.02 16:35:00 - [9] Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 02/01/2010 16:35:38 Forget the Vargur. Buy a Machariel, fit it with 3 faction gyrostabs + 3 tracking enhancers, a couple of falloff rigs, a deadspace shield tank, faction ammo, and you'll do 1100 dps and have 80km falloff with autocannons. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Deb Dukar Minmatar	Posted - 2010.01.02 18:54:00 - [10] Edited by: Deb Dukar on 02/01/2010 18:55:36 no idea (yet) how the vagur does but my tempest and maelstrom with 800mm allready tear throught the enemy lines with no problem at all. i put falloff rigs on both ships to make this possible. im not using a tracking computer at all (just 1 trackign enhancer) and i hit frigs up to 8-10km. everything else gets ****d by my drones. but i have to admit ... barley anything comes that close to me especialy since i shot frigs first. so basicly ... no, tons of tracking are NOT worth it. ------------------------- horray for typos

Newbie Ned Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.02 20:30:00 - [11] Originally by: Merbusent I fear a lot for typeing anything negative about the vargur, but come on a bils worth of faction for a maelstrom?! ROFLMAO - good one!
Veryez	Posted - 2010.01.02 21:01:00 - [12] Edited by: Veryez on 02/01/2010 21:01:57 I fly mine a bit differently. I use basically a t2 setup, with 3xGyro's and 2xTE's. Using an AB, a cap booster, and an XL shield booster. I normally fly flat out w/the AB on and only burst the shields and cap when needed. Yes it takes a bit more work, but it tears through most missions at amazing speeds. The AB allows me to consistently put npc's in that 10 - 20k fast killing range, but even 35k is close enough to take out any NPC battleship. I normally use manual flying so that I don't fly into the npc's, but close by them, adjusting as needed to keep my overall speed up, sometimes towards the end I orbit @ 10k when there are just BS left. Like others I kill frigates at range then usually reduce the BC/cruisers very quickly, then the BS. I have never found trouble hitting anything if the angular velosity is below .04 (the 2xTE II setup has .088 tracking w/800's). I also have been watching their transverse velosity which is easy to keep under 300 m/s with manual flying (hence the 10 to 20k killing range). I have been playing with the thought of dropping to a medium cap booster, and putting a burst aerator rig in to up the dps even more (the sub 3 sec rof is very enticing). I know others who sit still and kill everything, but waiting for stuff to come into range and the extra damage you take doesn't seem worth it. I have put my setup through AE bonus room, WC, and the assault with no problems, I want to try mordus HH, which could easily change my thoughts, but this is how I fly it, I was wondering how others did it. So to answer your question, no, added tracking of a TC w/tracking script wouldn't be needed for me (since I don't use a TC at all). And yes I am really liking flying this ship. Edit - and Liang, could you pls post your setup, I am very interested in your thoughts.
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2010.01.02 21:34:00 - [13] Originally by: Veryez Edit - and Liang, could you pls post your setup, I am very interested in your thoughts. Sure, and I sent you an evemail. It has 800s, 3 hardeners, TC, MCB, 3 Gyro, 2 TE, Cap safeguards. The cap safeguards were laying around. TBH I'm not even using it atm though - I noticed last night that character wasn't even training. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Gravy Fries	Posted - 2010.01.02 21:35:00 - [14] Originally by: Arthur Frayn Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 02/01/2010 16:35:38 Forget the Vargur. Buy a Machariel, fit it with 3 faction gyrostabs + 3 tracking enhancers, a couple of falloff rigs, a deadspace shield tank, faction ammo, and you'll do 1100 dps and have 80km falloff with autocannons. Yes, if one has no interest in salvaging (which isn't the ludicrous endeavor it used to be, as I'm sure we would all agree) or looting (I only loot large wrecks with the Vargur), the Machariel would definitely be the way to go. If I didn't feel complelled to loot all the large wrecks, I would have gotten one of those.
People Eater The Exploited.	Posted - 2010.01.02 22:11:00 - [15] I fit my Vargur for maximum falloff and dps. 4x gyrostabilizers, 1 tracking enhancer, 2 tracking computers (optimal range) with barrage ammo. It has 106km falloff with barrage, which is the only ammo type I ever bring with me for any mission. I've never had trouble hitting anything except for cruisers or frigs orbiting me under 5ish km's. Anything within locking range dies, and it dies quickly :) Only downside is no afterburner since I don't want to sacrifice one of the 3 hardeners. Switching a GS for a TE and replacing the tracking coputer for an AB will still get the job done with only slightly less dps.
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2010.01.02 22:30:00 - [16] Edited by: fuxinos on 02/01/2010 22:30:05 Use Fusion for 20% more tracking to hit everything lol.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2010.01.02 22:34:00 - [17] Originally by: fuxinos Edited by: fuxinos on 02/01/2010 22:30:05 Use Fusion for 20% more tracking to hit everything lol. Hmm my fusion doesnt give me a tracking bonus :(
fuxinos Caldari Guys 0f Sarcasm	Posted - 2010.01.02 22:35:00 - [18] Edited by: fuxinos on 02/01/2010 22:35:46 Originally by: Naomi Knight Originally by: fuxinos Edited by: fuxinos on 02/01/2010 22:30:05 Use Fusion for 20% more tracking to hit everything lol. Hmm my fusion doesnt give me a tracking bonus :( Ups, Titanium Sabot
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2010.01.02 22:44:00 - [19] Originally by: fuxinos Edited by: fuxinos on 02/01/2010 22:37:43 Originally by: Naomi Knight Originally by: fuxinos Edited by: fuxinos on 02/01/2010 22:30:05 Use Fusion for 20% more tracking to hit everything lol. Hmm my fusion doesnt give me a tracking bonus :( Ups, Titanium Sabot Ç: I think this is as good as it can go: [Vargur, New Setup 1] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Shadow Serpentis Tracking Computer, Optimal Range Core B-Type 100MN Afterburner Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Pithi C-Type Small Shield Booster Pithi C-Type Small Shield Booster 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Republic Fleet Fusion L Small Tractor Beam I Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II Large Projectile Ambit Extension II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Yes mine is very similar ,but i use 1 med shield booster+shield boost amply instead of the 2 small+ I have 2 cap rig t1. Didnt see the need for t2 :)
Miriiah	Posted - 2010.01.02 23:22:00 - [20] Originally by: Arthur Frayn Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 02/01/2010 16:35:38 Forget the Vargur. Buy a Machariel, fit it with 3 faction gyrostabs + 3 tracking enhancers, a couple of falloff rigs, a deadspace shield tank, faction ammo, and you'll do 1100 dps and have 80km falloff with autocannons. My Vargur does 1163 dps, 75km fallof has better tracking, and I can tractor beamz! also uses way less ammo

Myrkala Minmatar Aurora Acclivitous	Posted - 2010.01.06 20:15:00 - [21] Take your Vargur, fit 2 TE's and one T2 projectile tracking rig. Fit Dual 425 mm Large autocannons, compare tracking with Medium Autocannon (425mm). - NO SPLIT WEAPON BONUSES ON THE NAGLFAR PLEASE!
Torpir Lee Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.01.06 20:42:00 - [22] Originally by: Myrkala Take your Vargur, fit 2 TE's and one T2 projectile tracking rig. Fit Dual 425 mm Large autocannons, compare tracking with Medium Autocannon (425mm). Is that before or after you add the gun's sig radius into the tracking formula But yeah, Vargur is a beast.
JordanParey Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2010.01.07 00:02:00 - [23] Originally by: Torpir Lee Originally by: Myrkala Take your Vargur, fit 2 TE's and one T2 projectile tracking rig. Fit Dual 425 mm Large autocannons, compare tracking with Medium Autocannon (425mm). Is that before or after you add the gun's sig radius into the tracking formula But yeah, Vargur is a beast. nice. So, how much of a tank do I really need on this thing? I flew an arty Mael around for quite some time, with the same midslot/lowslot setup that I would use with the Vargur. I have most of the fit for my Vargur (waiting the 6 hours to finish Energy Upgrades 5 so I can inject Marauders 1) and I am wondering if any of you have suggestions for my setup that weren't mentioned on my thread (page 2 of Ships and Mods)
Laughlyn Vaughns Gallente Lagos-Vaughn Industries	Posted - 2010.01.07 01:39:00 - [24] fit Hail L and cry as u cant hit a station from 5km i love the falloff and tracking of auto's tho, my sleip can hit at about 25km ith 425 II's and EMP M
Newbie Ned Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.07 06:57:00 - [25] With the shortest range ammo a decent set-up gives 3.9 + 85. With Barrage I get 7.8 + 127 - thats nearly an AC sniper!!
Kisena	Posted - 2010.01.17 05:03:00 - [26] just wanting to clarify you guys are getting this insane falloff with ac and not artys? holy god thats insane! and i personally have to say the fact that vargur is a shield tanker makes me happy i personally hate armor tanks
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol HellFleet	Posted - 2010.01.17 07:29:00 - [27] lol. I remember when people said that the Vargur was a piece of crap. It's funny how a patch changes things. www.siigarikitawa.com ò www.eohpoker.com ò Buy a GTC
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2010.01.17 10:18:00 - [28] Edited by: Marko Riva on 17/01/2010 10:18:45 The great advantage is that due to the bonuses and fitting your guns work everywhere, at 80km and at 5km. Also because the rof is rather high compared to arties and missiles (to an extend) you have less lost damage due to overkill, insta damage from turrets is also better (and less boring) than missiles. Personally I prefer the Machariel but a Vargur is very nice these days, the problem is that I just can't see CCP keeping it that way. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service
Kaian Voskhod	Posted - 2010.01.17 10:53:00 - [29] TO ANSWER TO THE OP I fly a MACHARIEL. This ship is similiar to the vargur. Combat wise, the mach has more dps but less tracking than a varg. I dont have any tracking issue because i manually pilot the ship in order to reduce the transversal.
Kaian Voskhod	Posted - 2010.01.17 11:03:00 - [30] Originally by: Miriiah Originally by: Arthur Frayn Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 02/01/2010 16:35:38 Forget the Vargur. Buy a Machariel, fit it with 3 faction gyrostabs + 3 tracking enhancers, a couple of falloff rigs, a deadspace shield tank, faction ammo, and you'll do 1100 dps and have 80km falloff with autocannons. My Vargur does 1163 dps, 75km fallof has better tracking, and I can tractor beamz! also uses way less ammo Can i have your fit please + implants (maybe) and tell me your method of calc. Because my mach ends with 1220 dps taking reloading time in the dps calculation (of course!) Any way, the REALLY downside of the mach and vargur is the crappy "puff" effect when AC fire.



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