Thing is, its not massive, gaping holes in the product if it requires hardcore spreadsheet action and only a couple of people actually go that far.

In your case CCP should have listened to the ui change too, even if only the minority can't stand it.

I think the Insurance nerf, the PI nerf and all the other nerfs on destroying your own stuff for profit were a pretty good warning.

And the POS bans and destruction were a good warning on not exploiting the game.

Don't you?

Whine, whine, whine some more. Your tears are delicious.

Are you saying that exploiting a vulnerability should be legal up and until CCP says no?

no, CCP should release content when it's finished, been tested, and is actually ready for deployment to live servers.

Thing is, its not massive, gaping holes in the product if it requires hardcore spreadsheet action and only a couple of people actually go that far.

In your case CCP should have listened to the ui change too, even if only the minority can't stand it.

Yeah
wait look youre talking about O.o

I think the loss of isk and assets was good warning

Yes that is what theyve been saying lol

uh... what?

Hell, I dont even remember anymore

Insanity can be annoying but sanity...
Isn't sanity just a one-trick pony anyway? I mean, all you get is that one trick--rational thinking--but when you're good and crazy, well, the sky's the limit!

The bug was reported on SiSi, it was a known bug. They abused it, they should pay. It wasn't like they didn't know that this was a design flaw.

It was reported on SiSi. CCP let it enter the game unchanged. Therefore it should be safe to assume the CCP knew about it and decided they were Ok with it .

Otherwise, If they didn't know about it, it's their fault for not listening to SiSi feedback. If they weren't OK with it, it's their fault for letting it hit TQ.

Since CCP is the only one who can call something a design flaw, a mechanic which they know (or should know) about which reaches TQ must not be a design flaw.

Have you ever played Eve Online?

C'mon jimmy, time for your meds.

My point is that CCP's incompetence is not something that players should be punished for (I mean, on top of having to deal with broken gameplay for years).

They did their diligence by telling CCP about it before it hit TQ. CCP's failure to act means that they should reap the rewards of preparation.

Had nobody warned CCP about this, I'd be singing a different tune.

If their incompetence creates an exploit that you then abuse the **** out of its on you not them

It was reported on SiSi. CCP let it enter the game unchanged. Therefore it should be safe to assume the CCP knew about it and decided they were Ok with it .

Otherwise, If they didn't know about it, it's their fault for not listening to SiSi feedback. If they weren't OK with it, it's their fault for letting it hit TQ.

Since CCP is the only one who can call something a design flaw, a mechanic which they know (or should know) about which reaches TQ must not be a design flaw.

You flew right over the part where CCP was warned about the problem before it hit TQ. That's kind of the whole ballgame. The players did their diligence by telling CCP about a thing. CCP ignored the players. The effects of the thing are on CCP's head.

Thats ok given you flew right over the part where I said:

If their incompetence creates an exploit that you then abuse the **** out of its on you not them

Here's the deal. It's never their (CCP) fault that someone else exploits their design flaws as no game can be perfect. Sure it was a bad move for not fixing it but it still doesn't excuse the blatant exploiting of the system. You see unless you want to convince me the Goons have an IQ lower than 50 they shouldn't be excused for what they did. Anyone smarter than an inbred monkey would have known this would not be allowed, never does a game reward you for blowing up your own **** and most certainly not EVE.

So GOONS were knowingly abusing a design flaw for their profit and no such thing can nor should be accepted.

You flew right over the part where CCP was warned about the problem before it hit TQ. That's kind of the whole ballgame. The players did their diligence by telling CCP about a thing. CCP ignored the players. The effects of the thing are on CCP's head.

People pointed out that the LP gain from cargo would be abused through market manipulation long before it was spreadsheetable (or released).

just because an exploit got reported in good time to prevent it making it onto TQ, doesn't mean its ok to then use the unfixed exploit and expect to keep everything gained from it. "Wah, we told them it was broke, we used it knowing it was broke and now they take our moneys, why???? waaah" is all it sounds like from my balcony in common sense land. Its not on CCP's head at all, its on the head of every person who knowingly abused an exploit, they were the ones planning, preparing and carrying out the act after all.

In my honest opinion, using an exploit that you have previous knowledge from the test server of in conjunction with knowing that it is indeed an 'exploit' by very definition should result in a permanent ban of the account/s and account holders using said exploit and total reversal of all ill-gotten gains received via use of the exploit.

After all, there no telling how many totally unconnected people were affected by the use of this exploit, they may be out of pocket, they may have had enough of hearing about goons constantly and quit, or they may be put off by the fact that there is that much high level organisation going into gaming a system to an advantage. It would seriously put me off wanting to play if I was new to the game and heard people were in serious planning sessions, speadsheets an all, on how to gain vitual currency from a loophole/exploit in a game I was enjoying. Theres really no telling how far the ripples from something like this travel.

just because an exploit got reported in good time to prevent it making it onto TQ, doesn't mean its ok to then use the unfixed exploit and expect to keep everything gained from it. "Wah, we told them it was broke, we used it knowing it was broke and now they take our moneys, why???? waaah" is all it sounds like from my balcony in common sense land. Its not on CCP's head at all, its on the head of every person who knowingly abused an exploit, they were the ones planning, preparing and carrying out the act after all.

In my honest opinion, using an exploit that you have previous knowledge from the test server of in conjunction with knowing that it is indeed an 'exploit' by very definition should result in a permanent ban of the account/s and account holders using said exploit and total reversal of all ill-gotten gains received via use of the exploit.

After all, there no telling how many totally unconnected people were affected by the use of this exploit, they may be out of pocket, they may have had enough of hearing about goons constantly and quit, or they may be put off by the fact that there is that much high level organisation going into gaming a system to an advantage. It would seriously put me off wanting to play if I was new to the game and heard people were in serious planning sessions, speadsheets an all, on how to gain vitual currency from a loophole/exploit in a game I was enjoying. Theres really no telling how far the ripples from something like this travel.

When its so profitable that it makes you question the reality(might not be the word im looking for) of it then its most likely not intended.

Just as there was an "exploit" a while back that i discovered by getting killed to rats doing a level 3. Back when retribution hulls were 13m each, i bought a few and died to rats on purpose to further "test" it.

It was a lot more chance based profit but it was still profit by non intended game mechanics. You died in your retribution(uninsured) then salvaged it(sometimes you got intact armor plates which sold for 34m).

Me being a person with common sense i didn't abuse the exploit even though i knew it would get rich, feel free to do it if you wish.

We can't know it's broken unless CCP says it is. Plenty of mechanics had unintended side effects. Jetcan mining wasn't an intended side effect of jettisoning cargo, but there you have it. Tech's current issues were pretty clearly unintended, but it's not an exploit. Incursions weren't an exploit even though CCP didn't expect influence to immediately peg to 0 once people swooped in.

Just because it's unexpected doesn't mean it's an exploit (Jetcan mining) and just because it's profitable doesn't mean it's an exploit (Tech, NPC PI goo, etc). So how can you tell?

Uh, Tech? And intact armor plates aren't an exploit any more than insurance fraud is when it's possible due to changing markets.

So you are saying its ok to blow up cheap ships and salvage them afterwards for a chance to get something thats worth double the isk ?

When its so profitable that it makes you question the reality(might not be the word im looking for) of it then its most likely not intended.

Just as there was an "exploit" a while back that i discovered by getting killed to rats doing a level 3. Back when retribution hulls were 13m each, i bought a few and died to rats on purpose to further "test" it.

It was a lot more chance based profit but it was still profit by non intended game mechanics. You died in your retribution(uninsured) then salvaged it(sometimes you got intact armor plates which sold for 34m).

Me being a person with common sense i didn't abuse the exploit even though i knew it would get rich, feel free to do it if you wish.