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uhm battlecruiser Ferox vs Brutix

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Def Antares	Posted - 2004.11.24 21:16:00 - [1] Ferox: 5 med hybrids (rails) with optimal range bonus (means hit less when target closes in) vs Brutix: 7 med hybrids (blasters) with damage bonus ... what happened here?? the other BC's seem more balanced towards the ferox, the brutix seems way overpowered with it's 7 guns and 5 lows ...
Def Antares	Posted - 2004.11.24 21:16:00 - [2] Ferox: 5 med hybrids (rails) with optimal range bonus (means hit less when target closes in) vs Brutix: 7 med hybrids (blasters) with damage bonus ... what happened here?? the other BC's seem more balanced towards the ferox, the brutix seems way overpowered with it's 7 guns and 5 lows ...
Wraeththu	Posted - 2004.11.24 21:23:00 - [3] I'm not saying the brutix is or isn't too powerful, but go check the grid/CPU differences on the two, and go try to fit 7 blasters on the Brutix. You'll see why it has 5 lows then. -- TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range.
Wraeththu	Posted - 2004.11.24 21:23:00 - [4] I'm not saying the brutix is or isn't too powerful, but go check the grid/CPU differences on the two, and go try to fit 7 blasters on the Brutix. You'll see why it has 5 lows then. -- TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range.
Terradoct	Posted - 2004.11.24 21:26:00 - [5] Edited by: Terradoct on 24/11/2004 21:29:25 Yeah Brutix is uber and way overpowerd, lets nerf his PG and CPU onec more, oh no..he has the lowerst cpu and pg allready. Not to mentiont that his capasitor capacity is the lowerst from all BC
Terradoct	Posted - 2004.11.24 21:26:00 - [6] Edited by: Terradoct on 24/11/2004 21:29:25 Yeah Brutix is uber and way overpowerd, lets nerf his PG and CPU onec more, oh no..he has the lowerst cpu and pg allready. Not to mentiont that his capasitor capacity is the lowerst from all BC
Ephemeron	Posted - 2004.11.24 22:39:00 - [7] Brutix got the best possible bonuses: damage mod and armor tanking mod. What more could one ask for? I think it is overpowered, change one of its bonuses to something less uber.
Ephemeron	Posted - 2004.11.24 22:39:00 - [8] Brutix got the best possible bonuses: damage mod and armor tanking mod. What more could one ask for? I think it is overpowered, change one of its bonuses to something less uber.
Isonkon Serikain	Posted - 2004.11.24 22:42:00 - [9] I was gonna say the brutix is a lame duck. PPl take a look at the grid and cpu and ship bonus before you start whining about the brutix being overpowered. If it follows gallente combat doctrine of closing in with short range blasters, its very poorly setup for this: Lowest base speed of all Battlecruisers, small cap... Which is lame considering hybrids require the use of cap. At least Caldari can use launchers and save on cap for tanking. You will never fit 7 medium hybrids on that grid, either, at least not big ones. I'll stick to my thorax, thanks for a nice looking ship, tho... And the bonus, don't get me started. The tanking bonus is more of a weakness than a strenghth, as it only exists as long as you have cap to tank with. The brutix does not have much of it to begin with. Compare this to the Caldari resist bonus, which is awesome, you could be out of cap you'll still have a high resist and an effective bonus. In the end, this makes the brutix an easy target, just pack cap drainers and its a dead bird. I fear that a well tanked Ferox will be able to take down a brutix in blaster range anyday, which is not how it should be, or should it? For the sake of balance, fix the bonus to something that does not rely on another attribute, like the damage resist bonus... It does not make a bonus, more like an achilles heel compared to the other ships (I know minmatar has the same type of bonus, sorry it seems you get the shaft too)
Isonkon Serikain	Posted - 2004.11.24 22:42:00 - [10] I was gonna say the brutix is a lame duck. PPl take a look at the grid and cpu and ship bonus before you start whining about the brutix being overpowered. If it follows gallente combat doctrine of closing in with short range blasters, its very poorly setup for this: Lowest base speed of all Battlecruisers, small cap... Which is lame considering hybrids require the use of cap. At least Caldari can use launchers and save on cap for tanking. You will never fit 7 medium hybrids on that grid, either, at least not big ones. I'll stick to my thorax, thanks for a nice looking ship, tho... And the bonus, don't get me started. The tanking bonus is more of a weakness than a strenghth, as it only exists as long as you have cap to tank with. The brutix does not have much of it to begin with. Compare this to the Caldari resist bonus, which is awesome, you could be out of cap you'll still have a high resist and an effective bonus. In the end, this makes the brutix an easy target, just pack cap drainers and its a dead bird. I fear that a well tanked Ferox will be able to take down a brutix in blaster range anyday, which is not how it should be, or should it? For the sake of balance, fix the bonus to something that does not rely on another attribute, like the damage resist bonus... It does not make a bonus, more like an achilles heel compared to the other ships (I know minmatar has the same type of bonus, sorry it seems you get the shaft too)
Def Antares	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:00:00 - [11] Edited by: Def Antares on 24/11/2004 23:04:28 dbpost :/
Def Antares	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:00:00 - [12] Edited by: Def Antares on 24/11/2004 23:04:28 dbpost :/
Def Antares	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:01:00 - [13] Edited by: Def Antares on 24/11/2004 23:07:15 Originally by: Isonkon Serikain I was gonna say the brutix is a lame duck. PPl take a look at the grid and cpu and ship bonus before you start whining about the brutix being overpowered. cough ferox powergrid 925 cough brutix 1000 cough you can easily fit 7 ion blasters here, the damage plus from the BC bonus will do nicely here, you can also fit a mix of ion and neutron blasters with decent skills and modules. and the armor repairer bonus is a hindrance? well at last you can use a MWD without severe hitpoint penalty to your main type of tanking, wich seems to be good for a blaster ship ... talk about hindrance ... what about the ferox' optimal range bonus? it basically means you hit worse if something get's below it, wich happens quicker with an increased optimal range. it should have been falloff range to be of any use.
Def Antares	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:01:00 - [14] Edited by: Def Antares on 24/11/2004 23:07:15 Originally by: Isonkon Serikain I was gonna say the brutix is a lame duck. PPl take a look at the grid and cpu and ship bonus before you start whining about the brutix being overpowered. cough ferox powergrid 925 cough brutix 1000 cough you can easily fit 7 ion blasters here, the damage plus from the BC bonus will do nicely here, you can also fit a mix of ion and neutron blasters with decent skills and modules. and the armor repairer bonus is a hindrance? well at last you can use a MWD without severe hitpoint penalty to your main type of tanking, wich seems to be good for a blaster ship ... talk about hindrance ... what about the ferox' optimal range bonus? it basically means you hit worse if something get's below it, wich happens quicker with an increased optimal range. it should have been falloff range to be of any use.
Weirda	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:18:00 - [15] Originally by: Def Antares talk about hindrance ... what about the ferox' optimal range bonus? it basically means you hit worse if something get's below it, wich happens quicker with an increased optimal range. it should have been falloff range to be of any use. Optimal range is ALWAYS a bonus. The gun's tracking determines its 'real' optimal range, the 'optimal range' stat just determines whether or not they going to apply the falloff penalty. There was a really good thread about a week back over this... will try to find link for you. Of course - optimal range is not very helpful in short range setups... -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION>
Weirda	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Def Antares talk about hindrance ... what about the ferox' optimal range bonus? it basically means you hit worse if something get's below it, wich happens quicker with an increased optimal range. it should have been falloff range to be of any use. Optimal range is ALWAYS a bonus. The gun's tracking determines its 'real' optimal range, the 'optimal range' stat just determines whether or not they going to apply the falloff penalty. There was a really good thread about a week back over this... will try to find link for you. Of course - optimal range is not very helpful in short range setups... -- Thread Killer <END TRANSMISSION>
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:20:00 - [17] Edited by: Dust Puppy on 24/11/2004 23:23:35 Edited by: Dust Puppy on 24/11/2004 23:23:00 Originally by: Def Antares talk about hindrance ... what about the ferox' optimal range bonus? it basically means you hit worse if something get's below it, wich happens quicker with an increased optimal range. it should have been falloff range to be of any use. Arrrg no you don't hit worse below optimal even if you increase optimal (in my theory you actually hit better but that is a work in making). It's not like you have 10km optimal 1km falloff that means that accuracy falls about half at 11km (actually get more tracking there though) but it doesn't mean that accuracy falls about half at 9km. edit: to sum up it's always better to have optimal range as high as possible. edit2: Damn you Weirda and your l33t typing skill __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:20:00 - [18] Edited by: Dust Puppy on 24/11/2004 23:23:35 Edited by: Dust Puppy on 24/11/2004 23:23:00 Originally by: Def Antares talk about hindrance ... what about the ferox' optimal range bonus? it basically means you hit worse if something get's below it, wich happens quicker with an increased optimal range. it should have been falloff range to be of any use. Arrrg no you don't hit worse below optimal even if you increase optimal (in my theory you actually hit better but that is a work in making). It's not like you have 10km optimal 1km falloff that means that accuracy falls about half at 11km (actually get more tracking there though) but it doesn't mean that accuracy falls about half at 9km. edit: to sum up it's always better to have optimal range as high as possible. edit2: Damn you Weirda and your l33t typing skill __________ Capacitor research
Celt Eireson	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:21:00 - [19] Optimal bonus doesnt affect hit rates sub-optimal only tracking does.
Celt Eireson	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:21:00 - [20] Optimal bonus doesnt affect hit rates sub-optimal only tracking does.
Noriath	Posted - 2004.11.25 01:31:00 - [21] Oh no! Gallante has a ship that's acctually good! Nerf it! Nerf it! Quickly, my brain hurts when there are more then two races that have good ships! :D No seriously, Ferox can also mount 5 launchers, the Brutix cannot have any launchers. that does make some difference in my opinion.
Noriath	Posted - 2004.11.25 01:31:00 - [22] Oh no! Gallante has a ship that's acctually good! Nerf it! Nerf it! Quickly, my brain hurts when there are more then two races that have good ships! :D No seriously, Ferox can also mount 5 launchers, the Brutix cannot have any launchers. that does make some difference in my opinion.
Luc Boye	Posted - 2004.11.25 01:42:00 - [23] eh, Ferox has 5 launcher slots, why fit guns? -- 2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage.
Luc Boye	Posted - 2004.11.25 01:42:00 - [24] eh, Ferox has 5 launcher slots, why fit guns? -- 2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage.
Clay101	Posted - 2004.11.25 01:47:00 - [25] Edited by: Clay101 on 25/11/2004 01:51:28 OMG WTF IT WTFBBQPWNS THE OTHER ONE AHHHH BLARG OMG OMG OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111!!!!!111!!11!1!!!! WTF guys - it seems that with all these people complaining about "oh this isn't balanced, lets nerf it so it is" or "OMG this ship doesn't have this much of this but that ship has way more" - it seems that all you want is 4 ships to fly and only 4 no more ... 1 BS 1 Cruiser 1 Frig 1 Hauler no races no difference between them NOTHING ... GET OVER IT - things aren't meant to be PERFECTLY BALLANCED - some ships WILL be better than others in some respects but not as good in other respects ... if you don't like the Ferox - fly a Brutix simple as that - done - no "if's", "and's" or "but's" to it ... that's it just fly the other ship OMG was that hard? i don't fly Heron because it sux - i don't fly an Osprey because it sux (I PvP) - i don't fly haulers because they SUCK ... ok i'm done sry if i offended anyone - plz no flame - i'm finished - i won't post anything on this topic again - i'm through - no more ... (i'l probly check and post here tomorow )
Clay101	Posted - 2004.11.25 01:47:00 - [26] Edited by: Clay101 on 25/11/2004 01:51:28 OMG WTF IT WTFBBQPWNS THE OTHER ONE AHHHH BLARG OMG OMG OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111!!!!!111!!11!1!!!! WTF guys - it seems that with all these people complaining about "oh this isn't balanced, lets nerf it so it is" or "OMG this ship doesn't have this much of this but that ship has way more" - it seems that all you want is 4 ships to fly and only 4 no more ... 1 BS 1 Cruiser 1 Frig 1 Hauler no races no difference between them NOTHING ... GET OVER IT - things aren't meant to be PERFECTLY BALLANCED - some ships WILL be better than others in some respects but not as good in other respects ... if you don't like the Ferox - fly a Brutix simple as that - done - no "if's", "and's" or "but's" to it ... that's it just fly the other ship OMG was that hard? i don't fly Heron because it sux - i don't fly an Osprey because it sux (I PvP) - i don't fly haulers because they SUCK ... ok i'm done sry if i offended anyone - plz no flame - i'm finished - i won't post anything on this topic again - i'm through - no more ... (i'l probly check and post here tomorow )
Mikelangelo	Posted - 2004.11.25 03:28:00 - [27] I think the fact that there are LOTS MORE choices now is a great thing. Bored with your uber BS? Go blow a few million on an interceptor. Tired of flying around in an interceptor, mess around with a destroyer. Bored with your cruiser but can't afford a battleship? Give it a week or so, and BC prices will go down to reasonable levels. Rinse and repeat.
Mikelangelo	Posted - 2004.11.25 03:28:00 - [28] I think the fact that there are LOTS MORE choices now is a great thing. Bored with your uber BS? Go blow a few million on an interceptor. Tired of flying around in an interceptor, mess around with a destroyer. Bored with your cruiser but can't afford a battleship? Give it a week or so, and BC prices will go down to reasonable levels. Rinse and repeat.
Theodore Gross	Posted - 2004.11.25 11:34:00 - [29] Edited by: Theodore Gross on 25/11/2004 11:48:06 Edited by: Theodore Gross on 25/11/2004 11:42:02 I think they went with it wrong.. the ferox setup is nice the way it is... but instead of hybrid turret bonus it should have gotten missile bonus... I mean its a caldari ship... caldari ship are known for 2 things really ... first is better shields than any other in its class... and second missle launchers... you want to fiddle with hybrid turrets and damage... get a gellente ship... oh well lets just hope later they dont end up giving the bomber class ships of the caldari hybrid turret bonus instead of missile bonus ..
Theodore Gross	Posted - 2004.11.25 11:34:00 - [30] Edited by: Theodore Gross on 25/11/2004 11:48:06 Edited by: Theodore Gross on 25/11/2004 11:42:02 I think they went with it wrong.. the ferox setup is nice the way it is... but instead of hybrid turret bonus it should have gotten missile bonus... I mean its a caldari ship... caldari ship are known for 2 things really ... first is better shields than any other in its class... and second missle launchers... you want to fiddle with hybrid turrets and damage... get a gellente ship... oh well lets just hope later they dont end up giving the bomber class ships of the caldari hybrid turret bonus instead of missile bonus ..

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