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Pavluhos	Posted - 2010.02.11 20:25:00 - [1] How? i heard about it and it sounds interesting and chalanging in a way. Can some one please explain how its done. I tried to search the forums but didnit find anything. Thank you
Sarcough Illrilian	Posted - 2010.02.11 20:28:00 - [2] Well you see when you find some salvage that doesn't belong to you, you ninja it from them...... Yes, it's that easy.
Pavluhos	Posted - 2010.02.11 20:30:00 - [3] what i meant is jumping into missions of other people
Mistah Ewedynao Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.11 20:30:00 - [4] Actually it's correct name is Space Janitor
Sarcough Illrilian	Posted - 2010.02.11 20:37:00 - [5] Originally by: Pavluhos what i meant is jumping into missions of other people That's pretty much what you do yes, you get a small frigate/destroyer fit it with salvagers/probe and an afterburner/mwd an start scanning out busy missioning systems going round looting people salvage.
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2010.02.11 20:41:00 - [6] Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian Well you see when you find some salvage that doesn't belong to you, you ninja it from them...... Salvage belongs to the one who uses the salvager on the wreck. It ends up in his cargo. Until that happens, it belongs to no one. It doesn't even exist. *-- He said "The President is near."*
Ubik Null Minmatar	Posted - 2010.02.11 20:51:00 - [7] Edited by: Ubik Null on 11/02/2010 20:56:30 I have to speak up here. There is no such thing as "Ninja Salvaging" in EVE as it's presently configured. You simply salvage wrecks. Period. You can salvage wrecks in asteroid belts at will. You can also salvage other peoples mission wrecks. This is done by scanning down the wrecks using your scanning skills. Just be advised that if you try to salvage in 'roid belts or mission sites in lo-sec there's a chance you'll get your Dessie destroyed (pun - get it?) and perhaps podded as well. This also is simple game mechanics, the mission runner isn't out to "get you" they simply killed you because they could, no hard feelings m8. Perhaps your exhausts were simply the wrong color today. EDIT: Not to be picky, but you don't loot salvage. The entire concept of looting salvage is invalid. You can loot wrecks, and if they're not yours you can be shot. So when a wreck is looted (by anyone) the wreck itself is still there, to be salvaged. If you salvage a wreck, often a can will remain. this is loot, and you can be shot for taking it.
Samantha U	Posted - 2010.02.11 20:56:00 - [8] Originally by: Ubik Null I have to speak up here. There is no such thing as "Ninja Salvaging" in EVE as it's presently configured. You simply salvage wrecks. Period. You can salvage wrecks in asteroid belts at will. You can also salvage other peoples mission wrecks. This is done by scanning down the wrecks using your scanning skills. Just be advised that if you try to salvage in 'roid belts or mission sites in lo-sec there's a chance you'll get your Dessie destroyed (pun - get it?) and perhaps podded as well. This also is simple game mechanics, the mission runner isn't out to "get you" they simply killed you because they could, no hard feelings m8. Perhaps your exhausts were simply the wrong color today. Try shooting someone for salvaging and you'll be the one going home in your pod when Concord comes to get better acquainted, so don't be spreading such misinformation, 'cos we all know that's false. You only get to shoot if they take something out of your can. And the word 'ninja' is relevant since they are sneaking into mission sites.
Ubik Null Minmatar	Posted - 2010.02.11 20:57:00 - [9] Originally by: Samantha U Originally by: Ubik Null I have to speak up here. There is no such thing as "Ninja Salvaging" in EVE as it's presently configured. You simply salvage wrecks. Period. You can salvage wrecks in asteroid belts at will. You can also salvage other peoples mission wrecks. This is done by scanning down the wrecks using your scanning skills. Just be advised that if you try to salvage in 'roid belts or mission sites in lo-sec there's a chance you'll get your Dessie destroyed (pun - get it?) and perhaps podded as well. This also is simple game mechanics, the mission runner isn't out to "get you" they simply killed you because they could, no hard feelings m8. Perhaps your exhausts were simply the wrong color today. Try shooting someone for salvaging and you'll be the one going home in your pod when Concord comes to get better acquainted, so don't be spreading such misinformation, 'cos we all know that's false. You only get to shoot if they take something out of your can. And the word 'ninja' is relevant since they are sneaking into mission sites. Hence the use of the term lo-sec.
Pavluhos	Posted - 2010.02.11 20:59:00 - [10] how can i find ppl doing missions? =/
Samantha U	Posted - 2010.02.11 21:00:00 - [11] Originally by: Ubik Null Originally by: Samantha U Originally by: Ubik Null I have to speak up here. There is no such thing as "Ninja Salvaging" in EVE as it's presently configured. You simply salvage wrecks. Period. You can salvage wrecks in asteroid belts at will. You can also salvage other peoples mission wrecks. This is done by scanning down the wrecks using your scanning skills. Just be advised that if you try to salvage in 'roid belts or mission sites in lo-sec there's a chance you'll get your Dessie destroyed (pun - get it?) and perhaps podded as well. This also is simple game mechanics, the mission runner isn't out to "get you" they simply killed you because they could, no hard feelings m8. Perhaps your exhausts were simply the wrong color today. Try shooting someone for salvaging and you'll be the one going home in your pod when Concord comes to get better acquainted, so don't be spreading such misinformation, 'cos we all know that's false. You only get to shoot if they take something out of your can. And the word 'ninja' is relevant since they are sneaking into mission sites. Hence the use of the term lo-sec. Sorry, missed that, need more coffee I guess. Yes, low sec will get you a nasty surprise, but most ninjas operate around the high sec mission hubs. Most are either smart enough to avoid putting themselves in that situation or not bored/eager enough to try ninjaing a low sec site or belt.
Tason Hyena Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.02.11 21:02:00 - [12] Yeah ninja salvaging specifically means going into a mission runners site, and salvaging the wrecks he has killed. Any other time it's just normal salvage, and people rarely give a fuss about that. If anything, more miners should abandon their rat wrecks so we can clean them up for them. (and prevent easy suicide gank warp points)
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Reckoning.	Posted - 2010.02.11 21:10:00 - [13] Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 11/02/2010 21:10:27 Linkage
Pavluhos	Posted - 2010.02.11 21:12:00 - [14] Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 11/02/2010 21:10:27 Linkage thank you!
Ubik Null Minmatar	Posted - 2010.02.11 21:14:00 - [15] Go to any of the major mission hubs and start scanning the adjoining systems. When you're scanning skills are up to snuff you'll usually find spots with huge numbers of wrecks. Keep in mind that most, imo, mission runners (and this character is a mission runner) feel that the wrecks are "theirs". This of course is sheer nonsense. CCP has repeatedly stated that the pilot who does the salvaging is the owner of the salvage. This may change tomorrow, but today, that's how it is. I've never seen a sneaky salvager - most just fly in without a cloak and start salvaging. I also enjoy rattling chains on occasion.
Sarcough Illrilian	Posted - 2010.02.11 21:19:00 - [16] Edited by: Sarcough Illrilian on 11/02/2010 21:20:40 Edited by: Sarcough Illrilian on 11/02/2010 21:19:53 Edited by: Sarcough Illrilian on 11/02/2010 21:19:33 Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian Well you see when you find some salvage that doesn't belong to you, you ninja it from them...... Salvage belongs to the one who uses the salvager on the wreck. It ends up in his cargo. Until that happens, it belongs to no one. It doesn't even exist. The "act" of salvaging from a wreck is the same as looting a wreck. Don't try and hide it behind some nonsense gibberish. It's plain, you shoot a ship, you kill it, the wreck belongs to the person that killed it, period, that's why the name is attached to the wreck (Sure you can salvage it, and by design there isn't any penalty, but that's NOT the point being made here. The point is it IS an act of stealing). Besides, everyone knows that CCP made ninja salvaging a non punishable action because it reduces lag overall on the node, ninja salvages help to keep the node stable.....That's probably the only reason it's non punishable, if i'm wrong give me some valid proof to claim otherwise.
Nadarius Chrome Celestial Horizon Corp.	Posted - 2010.02.11 21:21:00 - [17] Originally by: Mistah Ewedynao Actually it's correct name is Space Janitor Don't really need a janitor when wrecks and cans are biodegradeable within 2 hours.
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2010.02.11 21:25:00 - [18] Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian rabble rabble You've seen the CCP dev quotes on this topic right? Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
Gladys Pank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.02.11 21:25:00 - [19] Here is a sensational video guide to the PROfession ~~~ http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1260276\| It will show you just how awesome hardcore ninja salvaging is. ~ Soar Like a Penguin
Sarcough Illrilian	Posted - 2010.02.11 21:38:00 - [20] Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian rabble rabble You've seen the CCP dev quotes on this topic right? Well, what do you think? I was asking someone to let me know if there is irrefutable proof against my comment, so if there is irrefutable proof in a post from the devs then obviously I haven't read it. As far as i'm aware they've merely pointed out that ninja salvaging is a "valid" profession within the game (This only further backs up the claim that it's used as a stability tool, and nothing more).
Dorbin Callas	Posted - 2010.02.11 21:55:00 - [21] Oh No! Not the Ninja Salvaging issue! I have no idea what CCP was thinking, or why they were thinking it, or IF they were even thinking. For whatever reason, Salvaging has been deemed a valid profession - It's in the player guide. They tell you how to do it. Not once, as I recall, in that guide is the term "Ninja" used when speaking of salvaging other wrecks, be they belt wrecks or mission wrecks. Although I can see how the term "Ninja" developed with relation to salvaging, it generally denotes something sneaky, underhanded, or less than savory. Of course it's always hazardous to compare game terminology with RL terminology. As far as having pilots names associated with wrecks, for purposes of argument I'd submit that they are tagged for two reasons: 1) So that the pilot themselves could find "their" wrecks, amid the dozens of other wrecks, at complexes and in belts. 2) So looters (dare I say "Ninja Looters"?) can assess the possible repercussions of stealing someones' loot. At my level I'm sure I could be bested by an unarmed Ibis, therefore I don't loot. As far as my own feelings, I'd rather my wrecks were salvaged by me than by others, but there's not much I can do about it (refer to my unarmed Ibis comment). In any even, carry on troops. Let's beat this one till it can't get up any more.
Kyra Felann Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.11 22:02:00 - [22] Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian Well you see when you find some salvage that doesn't belong to you, you ninja it from them...... Salvage doesn't belong to anyone until it is salvaged and in someone's cargo hold. Think of salvage like ore from asteroids--it belongs to the first person to 'harvest' it. What the term normally means is to scan down a mission runner (where wrecks will usually abound) and start salvaging. They'll whine, but the salvage doesn't belong to them any more than asteroids do, so ignore their whining and keep salvaging. When probing, you'll generally want to look for drones and common mission-running ships. It also helps to be in a popular mission hub.
Kyra Felann Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.11 22:08:00 - [23] Edited by: Kyra Felann on 11/02/2010 22:12:14 Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian The "act" of salvaging from a wreck is the same as looting a wreck. Don't try and hide it behind some nonsense gibberish. It's plain, you shoot a ship, you kill it, the wreck belongs to the person that killed it, period, that's why the name is attached to the wreck (Sure you can salvage it, and by design there isn't any penalty, but that's NOT the point being made here. The point is it IS an act of stealing). You can't make up the rules since we're not playing the Sarcough's Fantasy Land That Exists Only In His Mind game. CCP has said repeatedly and in no uncertain terms that salvage belongs to no one until it it salvaged and sitting in their cargo hold. CCP made the game, so CCP makes the rules. Just because you live in your own fantasy land in your mind doesn't change that. Do you think you own an asteroid if you're the first to mine it too? Try arguing with the police because in your mind the laws are different. Let me know how that goes. In case you're too lazy to click the link, here you go: Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing." Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up. Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit. Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing. Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks. (These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2010.02.11 23:22:00 - [24] Ninja salvaging is no big deal either way. It isn't particularly profitable to do unless you're really low-skilled, and it gives missioners a little opportunity for some economic PvP.
Virgil Travis Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.11 23:24:00 - [25] Fair play to them I say
Zartanic Red Federation	Posted - 2010.02.12 04:13:00 - [26] Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian rabble rabble You've seen the CCP dev quotes on this topic right? Well, what do you think? I was asking someone to let me know if there is irrefutable proof against my comment, so if there is irrefutable proof in a post from the devs then obviously I haven't read it. As far as i'm aware they've merely pointed out that ninja salvaging is a "valid" profession within the game (This only further backs up the claim that it's used as a stability tool, and nothing more). You make the assertion you have to provide the proof. I know a tea pot circles the moon. Provide me with proof it does not or I'm right. See where that gets us? But that way of arguing is the basis of whole religions and quack beliefs so it seems to wash for some people.
Derelicht	Posted - 2010.02.12 04:18:00 - [27] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Until that happens, it belongs to no one. It doesn't even exist. Quoted for comedy reasons.
Nefrin Maldoes Minmatar Outer Rim Survey and Salvage	Posted - 2010.02.12 06:35:00 - [28] See signature ---------- while(horse==dead) { beat(); }
Major Trant 287 Marine Regiment	Posted - 2010.02.12 10:57:00 - [29] Originally by: Zartanic I know a tea pot circles the moon. Is that Blue Republic's Sacred Teapot? Which moon please, they are desperate to get that back.
Brechan Skene	Posted - 2010.02.12 11:27:00 - [30] Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian Edited by: Sarcough Illrilian on 11/02/2010 21:20:40 Edited by: Sarcough Illrilian on 11/02/2010 21:19:53 Edited by: Sarcough Illrilian on 11/02/2010 21:19:33 Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian Well you see when you find some salvage that doesn't belong to you, you ninja it from them...... Salvage belongs to the one who uses the salvager on the wreck. It ends up in his cargo. Until that happens, it belongs to no one. It doesn't even exist. The "act" of salvaging from a wreck is the same as looting a wreck. Don't try and hide it behind some nonsense gibberish. It's plain, you shoot a ship, you kill it, the wreck belongs to the person that killed it, period, that's why the name is attached to the wreck (Sure you can salvage it, and by design there isn't any penalty, but that's NOT the point being made here. The point is it IS an act of stealing). Besides, everyone knows that CCP made ninja salvaging a non punishable action because it reduces lag overall on the node, ninja salvages help to keep the node stable.....That's probably the only reason it's non punishable, if i'm wrong give me some valid proof to claim otherwise. What you are saying is that the current mechanics of salvaging is not correct to "real world" examples Therefore what you are saying is that there is no example of a conflict/ engagement (a mission) occurring consisting of winner of the conflict/ engagement (the player) and a loser of the conflict / engagement (the NPC) and subsequently a third party (the Ninja) turning up later and salvaging the wrecks for profit without permission from either the designated player or NPC of the conflict/engagement Are you sure of this fact Brechan Skene
Sarcough Illrilian	Posted - 2010.02.12 12:03:00 - [31] Edited by: Sarcough Illrilian on 12/02/2010 12:10:41 Originally by: Kyra Felann blah blah quoting masterpiece, blah blah etc Sure, it's their rules. But read my other post that they created salvaging as an open profession because they wanted to keep lag to a minimum. Guaranteed if lag wasn't an issue it would have been kept in the same boat as looting. I don't need to read all of your "pro" quotes because it's just reiterating the same old boring lines. Salvage belongs to the player that killed the initial ship, the only reason it isn't that way is because CCP saw that it would cause lag issues, in order to avoid this problem they made it an openly available mini-profession... Your argument is with game mechanics anyway, not with reasoning. I'm speculating what most people consider theft, and the fact that enough people have named it "ninja" salvaging is proof enough. It may be fact that it's a profession, but it's under false implications.
Sarcough Illrilian	Posted - 2010.02.12 12:09:00 - [32] Edited by: Sarcough Illrilian on 12/02/2010 12:15:18 Originally by: Zartanic You make the assertion you have to provide the proof. I know a tea pot circles the moon. Provide me with proof it does not or I'm right. See where that gets us? But that way of arguing is the basis of whole religions, conspiracy theories and quack beliefs so it seems to wash for some people. Anyway, to the Op. Ninja salvaging is a good way to make some ISK and ignore the naysayers, the game allows it and that's that. A smart mission runner can avoid you anyway. I say this as a mission runner who has never ninja salvaged. You see, that's your problem, because I agree that a tea pot circles the moon, it's more than possible if given the right components. My argument is to deny my quote, not agree with it. I can deny that a teapot circles the moon, but i certainly can't provide proof that it doesn't (That is unless you were talking in present tense, in which case give me the tools to be able to review the moon and check for flying teapots and i'll get back to you with a detailed report on whether it's true or false). Here's me, giving you a statement, I believe in this statement, can you give me proof to refute it? The tools are there on the table. So stop with the pointless, absurd analogies and instead give me something that is a little more concrete.
Gladys Pank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.02.12 12:16:00 - [33] lol, pathetic ~ Soar Like a Penguin
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.02.12 12:20:00 - [34] Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian Edited by: Sarcough Illrilian on 12/02/2010 12:10:41 Originally by: Kyra Felann blah blah quoting masterpiece, blah blah etc Sure, it's their rules. But read my other post that they created salvaging as an open profession because they wanted to keep lag to a minimum. Guaranteed if lag wasn't an issue it would have been kept in the same boat as looting. I don't need to read all of your "pro" quotes because it's just reiterating the same old boring lines. Salvage belongs to the player that killed the initial ship, the only reason it isn't that way is because CCP saw that it would cause lag issues, in order to avoid this problem they made it an openly available mini-profession... Your argument is with game mechanics anyway, not with reasoning. I'm speculating what most people consider theft, and the fact that enough people have named it "ninja" salvaging is proof enough. It may be fact that it's a profession, but it's under false implications. What the hell does lag have to do with it?
Nefrin Maldoes Minmatar Outer Rim Survey and Salvage	Posted - 2010.02.12 12:22:00 - [35] Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian Besides, everyone knows that CCP made ninja salvaging a non punishable action because it reduces lag overall on the node, ninja salvages help to keep the node stable.....That's probably the only reason it's non punishable, if i'm wrong give me some valid proof to claim otherwise. If this is the case, then why did CCP remove the ability to scan out wrecks with scan probes? I find your argument lacking, as it has been posted here that free for all salvage is intended, and encouraged, part of the game. The Devs have even stated so, as witnessed here, which was taken from the Dev response on this thread, here. Whether or not you think it is right is irrelevant. You have to work within the confines of the laws (read: game rules) that have laid down by those in authority, to which *you agreed to* by accepting the EULA when you entered the game. ---------- while(horse==dead) { beat(); }
Amy Platt	Posted - 2010.02.12 13:14:00 - [36] last two guys I had ninja salvage on me. First guy came in and started salvaging I'd just finished killing the last rat so went into the next room. At the same time I brought my salvage alt online and started to bring her to the mission. Halfway through killing the second room, mostly cruisers and BS, my alt enterred the mission, the ninja was still in the first room sweeping up the frigs and cruisers. Knowing there were tastier treats in the next room I skipped the first and cleared as I killed. Flew into the last room, killed the BS and cruisers and brought my alt in. Then flew back to get my salvagecane. Warped into the first room, and he decided to steal my loot and went red. I ignored him so he brought two of his mates in, who also went red. He must have thought I was stupid. Anyway this guy wasted 3 chars time, and only managed to salvage about 10 frigates and 10 cruisers, while I cleared up the remaining two rooms. Second guy warped into my mission and started salvaging, I already had my salvage alt in the room with me, so it became a "who can salvage faster" game with the ninja. Turned out to be quite entertaining. But, if someone does come in to salvage I'm not too bothered. It's only ISK afterall.
Gladys Pank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.02.12 13:22:00 - [37] Originally by: Amy Platt last two guys I had ninja salvage on me. First guy came in and started salvaging I'd just finished killing the last rat so went into the next room. At the same time I brought my salvage alt online and started to bring her to the mission. Halfway through killing the second room, mostly cruisers and BS, my alt enterred the mission, the ninja was still in the first room sweeping up the frigs and cruisers. Knowing there were tastier treats in the next room I skipped the first and cleared as I killed. Flew into the last room, killed the BS and cruisers and brought my alt in. Then flew back to get my salvagecane. Warped into the first room, and he decided to steal my loot and went red. I ignored him so he brought two of his mates in, who also went red. He must have thought I was stupid. Anyway this guy wasted 3 chars time, and only managed to salvage about 10 frigates and 10 cruisers, while I cleared up the remaining two rooms. Second guy warped into my mission and started salvaging, I already had my salvage alt in the room with me, so it became a "who can salvage faster" game with the ninja. Turned out to be quite entertaining. But, if someone does come in to salvage I'm not too bothered. It's only ISK afterall. Ninjas think they are amazing, truth is they are pathetic noobs. They would actually do this while thinking you where crying at their efforts. Bless. ~ Soar Like a Penguin
Riedle Minmatar Raptus Regalitor Black Legion.	Posted - 2010.02.12 13:23:00 - [38] Originally by: Ubik Null Go to any of the major mission hubs and start scanning the adjoining systems. When you're scanning skills are up to snuff you'll usually find spots with huge numbers of wrecks. Keep in mind that most, imo, mission runners (and this character is a mission runner) feel that the wrecks are "theirs". This of course is sheer nonsense. CCP has repeatedly stated that the pilot who does the salvaging is the owner of the salvage. This may change tomorrow, but today, that's how it is. I've never seen a sneaky salvager - most just fly in without a cloak and start salvaging. I also enjoy rattling chains on occasion. you scan for the mission runner ship, not the wrecks.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.12 13:50:00 - [39] Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian But read my other post that they created salvaging as an open profession because they wanted to keep lag to a minimum. Source? Quote: Guaranteed if lag wasn't an issue it would have been kept in the same boat as looting. Source? Quote: Salvage belongs to the player that killed the initial ship Nope. Quote: the only reason it isn't that way is because CCP saw that it would cause lag issues Source? Quote: I'm speculating what most people consider theft, and the fact that enough people have named it "ninja" salvaging is proof enough. It only proves that they don't understand the rules of the game. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Att Itude Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.02.12 14:30:00 - [40] Originally by: Guillame Herschel --- He said "The President is near." You do realize, of course, that very, very few people get this joke? That being said, +100 Internets to you, sir!
Starchy Jeanus	Posted - 2010.02.12 14:59:00 - [41] Ninga, please..
Nefrin Maldoes Minmatar Outer Rim Survey and Salvage	Posted - 2010.02.12 15:08:00 - [42] Originally by: Att Itude Originally by: Guillame Herschel --- He said "The President is near." You do realize, of course, that very, very few people get this joke? That being said, +100 Internets to you, sir! I got that joke after looking at it for about 10 seconds. Then I fell out of my chair laughing, literally. I got some weird looks at work. ---------- while(horse==dead) { beat(); }
Sarcough Illrilian	Posted - 2010.02.12 15:11:00 - [43] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian But read my other post that they created salvaging as an open profession because they wanted to keep lag to a minimum. Source? Quote: Guaranteed if lag wasn't an issue it would have been kept in the same boat as looting. Source? Quote: Salvage belongs to the player that killed the initial ship Nope. Quote: the only reason it isn't that way is because CCP saw that it would cause lag issues Source? Quote: I'm speculating what most people consider theft, and the fact that enough people have named it "ninja" salvaging is proof enough. It only proves that they don't understand the rules of the game. I don't need any sources, because it's a statement. You write "Source?" does nothing, i made the statement, you can refute it, otherwise I stand unanswered.
Virgil Travis Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.12 15:13:00 - [44] Edited by: Virgil Travis on 12/02/2010 15:15:22 It worked in Blazing Saddles "As honorary chairman of the welcoming committee, it's my privilege to present a laurel and hearty handshake to our new... NINGA!!!"
Sarcough Illrilian	Posted - 2010.02.12 15:16:00 - [45] Edited by: Sarcough Illrilian on 12/02/2010 15:16:42 Originally by: Nefrin Maldoes Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian Besides, everyone knows that CCP made ninja salvaging a non punishable action because it reduces lag overall on the node, ninja salvages help to keep the node stable.....That's probably the only reason it's non punishable, if i'm wrong give me some valid proof to claim otherwise. If this is the case, then why did CCP remove the ability to scan out wrecks with scan probes? I find your argument lacking, as it has been posted here that free for all salvage is intended, and encouraged, part of the game. The Devs have even stated so, as witnessed here, which was taken from the Dev response on this thread, here. Whether or not you think it is right is irrelevant. You have to work within the confines of the laws (read: game rules) that have laid down by those in authority, to which *you agreed to* by accepting the EULA when you entered the game. /Facepalm Read threads instead of just blurting out rehashed BS please. I stated that CCP are using it as "wool over your eyes" tactic to make salvaging a practicable mini-career, and the reason they encourage this is so sheeps like you follow it. Frankly, i could care less about this, as I never salvage except for wormholes, i certainly couldn't care less about mission salvage, so i digress...
Diocles Minmatar Barely Illegal	Posted - 2010.02.12 15:29:00 - [46] This silliness again?? Bottom line...I make 10 times what a silly Space Garbagemen makes by running the missions, getting the loot, Bounties and LP's...and sec status increases. If I salvage it's just gravy. I get a kick out of them zooming around like they are being all sneaky and stuff. Ninja's...not even close. Hobo Garbagemen is more like it.................
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2010.02.12 16:37:00 - [47] Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian Sarcough Illrilian: baseless assertions about CCP's intended game design Tippia: requests for proof of said assertions which run counter to every public statement by CCP on the issue ... I don't need any sources, because it's a statement. You write "Source?" does nothing, i made the statement, you can refute it, otherwise I stand unanswered. BWAHAHAHAHA. 8/10 good sir! You had me going for a bit. Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.12 16:44:00 - [48] Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian I don't need any sources, because it's a statement. You write "Source?" does nothing, i made the statement, you can refute it, otherwise I stand unanswered. Ok. You make a statement. That statement is contrary to fact. This makes it an assertion of non-truth, i.a. a lie. That lie has already been disproved by the devs. Now, if you want to make it a claim of fact, you need to provide proof – sources. If you want to state an opinion, you need to remove all references to CCP claiming what you say. By the look of it, though, you're trying to say that CCP has implemented the salvaging system for a particular reason that is actually completely different than the stated reason. You need to prove this. So again: sources? Until you provide any, the only answer is to you statements is: "wrong, per CCP." ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Sarcough Illrilian	Posted - 2010.02.12 17:37:00 - [49] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian I don't need any sources, because it's a statement. You write "Source?" does nothing, i made the statement, you can refute it, otherwise I stand unanswered. Ok. You make a statement. That statement is contrary to fact. This makes it an assertion of non-truth, i.a. a lie. That lie has already been disproved by the devs. Now, if you want to make it a claim of fact, you need to provide proof û sources. If you want to state an opinion, you need to remove all references to CCP claiming what you say. By the look of it, though, you're trying to say that CCP has implemented the salvaging system for a particular reason that is actually completely different than the stated reason. You need to prove this. So again: sources? Until you provide any, the only answer is to you statements is: "wrong, per CCP." Where exactly is it contrary to fact? Where is the piece of officially written text that notifies that Salvaging was not made available to all as a mini-profession due to minimizing lag on nodes? I'm not asking you to recite the Gettysburg Address here, i'm merely asking you to show my statement is refuted. And CCP noting that Salvaging is a legit profession does not refute s**t......
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.12 17:46:00 - [50] Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian Where exactly is it contrary to fact? Where is the piece of officially written text that notifies that Salvaging was not made available to all as a mini-profession due to minimizing lag on nodes? See the already posted quotes, and the treads containing those posts. Not that it matters: you are one claiming that this is why it happened. Prove it. Until you can, it's just your hypothesis with no basis in reality. Prove it. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Kiri Serrensun	Posted - 2010.02.12 18:02:00 - [51] I think CCP set up the salvage rules because a little blue gnome called Norbert told them to in a dream one night after they had wandered through the land of lemon drizzle cake. Here's me, giving you a statement, I believe in this statement, can you give me proof to refute it? The tools are there on the table. So stop with the pointless, absurd analogies and instead give me something that is a little more concrete. I'm not asking you to recite the Gettysburg Address here, i'm merely asking you to show my statement is refuted.
Sarcough Illrilian	Posted - 2010.02.12 18:11:00 - [52] Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 12/02/2010 17:48:47 Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian Where exactly is it contrary to fact? Where is the piece of officially written text that notifies that Salvaging was not made available to all as a mini-profession due to minimizing lag on nodes? See the already posted quotes, and the treads containing those posts. Not that it matters: you are one claiming that this is why it happened. Prove it. Until you can, it's just your hypothesis with no basis in reality. Prove it. Until you do, I can fully refute your claim by making up my own hypotheses: they introduced salvaging for all because the mission runners told them to. Had it been a lag issue, they would just have despawned the wrecks. There, refuted. You know, this is not normally how a debate/discussion pans out, the person who makes the original statement normally has to be proven wrong and you STILL haven't proved me wrong, on that basis I can denote that my statement is unarguable, until proven so. "Had it been a lag issue, they would just have despawned the wrecks. There, refuted" No official by CCP. Secondly, i never said it WAS an issue I said that they made it an official profession to AVOID lag, which is my whole basis of had it not been an issue i'm positive that they would of put salvaging in the same offense bracket as stealing loot. The fact that old standards were you stole from a can when you destroyed something and the can popped....When they made wrecks the realised that the wreck could stay there indefinetely, so they made salvaging a free for all to avoid any possible lag issues. I don't even disagree with this as a company strategy, but for this point I'm sticking to my guns and asking that you to find proof that this statement is incorrect, otherwise, quite bluntly put shut the f**k up. P.S - I'm done with the subject, i've made my point if you want to go blabbering on by using the "I know you are, you said you are" type approach I won't stop you, knock yourself out.
Feilamya Shadow Company Legiunea ROmana	Posted - 2010.02.12 18:12:00 - [53] Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian i certainly couldn't care less about mission salvage, so i digress... This is actually true for most mission runners. The reason they whine about ninga salvagers (or space janitors, sorry if I offended anyone) is not losing their salvage. It's more like an "IT'S MINE, SO U CAN'T HAVE IT!!" e-peen kind of thing. That also explains why many of them blow up wrecks in the presence of ninjas, because it is the only pleasure their egos will ever have in this game.
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2010.02.12 18:14:00 - [54] In agreement: CCP intends for ninja salvaging to exist. Pro-ninja: CCP wants this gameplay because it is in the game and it is supported by quotes such as: Originally by: CCP Dropbear Originally by: Kahega Amielden Don't worry, CCP. We here at Suddenly NinjasÖ are working hard to add social interaction to generic missions And we love you (and others like you) for it! In some weird and wonderful way, groups like yours operate as flag bearers for the full EVE experience, and we wouldn't want to change, or get in the way of that. Also, lol. Link Sarcough Illrilian: CCP doesn't want this gameplay but allows it because of lag. The above assertion does not follow from the existence of the mechanic as alternative implementations would get around it. It is also not supported by public statements from CCP. Having made that assertion the onus is on you to prove it, not on others to disprove it. P.S. Ironfleet should add the quote I used. Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
Sarcough Illrilian	Posted - 2010.02.12 18:16:00 - [55] Originally by: Kiri Serrensun I think CCP set up the salvage rules because a little blue gnome called Norbert told them to in a dream one night after they had wandered through the land of lemon drizzle cake. Here's me, giving you a statement, I believe in this statement, can you give me proof to refute it? The tools are there on the table. So stop with the pointless, absurd analogies and instead give me something that is a little more concrete. I'm not asking you to recite the Gettysburg Address here, i'm merely asking you to show my statement is refuted. Yeah, because that's REALLY feasible isn't it.
Ubik Null Minmatar	Posted - 2010.02.12 18:17:00 - [56] Originally by: Riedle Originally by: Ubik Null Go to any of the major mission hubs and start scanning the adjoining systems. When you're scanning skills are up to snuff you'll usually find spots with huge numbers of wrecks. Keep in mind that most, imo, mission runners (and this character is a mission runner) feel that the wrecks are "theirs". This of course is sheer nonsense. CCP has repeatedly stated that the pilot who does the salvaging is the owner of the salvage. This may change tomorrow, but today, that's how it is. I've never seen a sneaky salvager - most just fly in without a cloak and start salvaging. I also enjoy rattling chains on occasion. you scan for the mission runner ship, not the wrecks. You're correct sir. My bad. Scanning wrecks was taken out of the game a while back. I guess I don't keep up with changes that don't affect me. I'm mainly the salvagee rather than the salvager. I couldn't care less if people salvage my missions.
Sytoru Hiroshyma Enemy of the State	Posted - 2010.02.12 18:18:00 - [57] How could salvaging have been introduced as a mini-profession to combat node lag when before the introduction of salvaging wrecks did not exist? Before you could salvage there were no wrecks, if a destroyed ship dropped any loot it would magically appear all neat and tidy inside of its own little can. No dropped loot meant nothing was spawned. It would be more accurate to assert that CCP created salvaging as a mini-profession to increase node lag. Your response, good sir, I await with barely contained anticipation.
Pnandor	Posted - 2010.02.12 18:23:00 - [58] my point of view! shoot down your wrecks because if he wasting your time do the same back hahahahahahahahaahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa hooooooohaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
Ba'Rumph The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2010.02.12 18:24:00 - [59] Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian You know, this is not normally how a debate/discussion pans out, the person who makes the original statement normally has to be proven wrong In what messed up version of reality is this a fact? It certainly isn't so in this world. This is how it works: Someone makes an argument and is expected to back it up with evidence. Failure to do so might prompt requests for evidence. Further failure to provide evidence leads to disregard for the argument as a baseless assertion. Now, where's your evidence?
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.12 18:26:00 - [60] Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian You know, this is not normally how a debate/discussion pans out, the person who makes the original statement normally has to be proven wrong No. The person who makes the original statement normally has to prove that he's right, otherwise he's just talking out of his backside. A statement in and of itself is worthless. To have any value, it has to be shown to have some basis in reality, or it will be either a lie or a fantasy. Quote: and you STILL haven't proved me wrong, on that basis I can denote that my statement is unarguable, until proven so. I have nothing to disprove because you have offered no proof other than "because I say so" to back up your claim. Your statement is null and void, no matter how much you denote it otherwise, and until you provide said proof, I can prove you wrong simply by saying "no it's not, because I say so." Quote: No official by CCP. You're missing a word or two there, I think. No official what? Quote: Secondly, i never said it WAS an issue I said that they made it an official profession to AVOID lag Doesn't make it less of a lag issue, I'm afraid. So my hypothesis stands: if it was a lag issue (and it has to be for your idea to make sense), they would just have despawned the wrecks. Quote: i'm positive that they would of put salvaging in the same offense bracket as stealing loot. The devs have actively contradicted you on this point, so no. It's not the same thing as stealing loot because loot is part of the mission rewards whereas salvage is not. Quote: When they made wrecks the realised that the wreck could stay there indefinetely …which is why they made wrecks despawn after a while. So there was no need to introduce salvaging to solve that problem. Quote: P.S - I'm done with the subject, i've made my point …and completely failed to back it up with a shred of evidence, making it hot air at best, and complete nonsense at worst. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
lollerwaffle Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE	Posted - 2010.02.12 18:27:00 - [61] In before 'Op had a question which has been answered. Any further debate is old, tired and akin to flogging a non-living horse. This is not the place to discuss your biased viewpoints. Locked.' -CCP ModXXYY Originally by: salva dore Cloak should not be AFK solution. What do you think? Originally by: AFK Cloaker
Starchy Jeanus	Posted - 2010.02.12 18:30:00 - [62] I hereby assert that CCP introduced the mechanics that allow for interstellar janitorial careers in order to REDUCE lag. Mission runners come to the forums to vent their rage at so called ninja salvagers, diverting clicks and keystrokes from the game UI to the web browser. Like moths to a flame, the salvagers and malcontents in general will also be drawn to these threads in order to defend their positions and maximize the extraction of tears, diverting even more in game keystrokes and clicks, resulting in a lighter load on the servers. Please provide a source that refutes this claim.
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2010.02.12 18:31:00 - [63] Edited by: Yuki Kulotsuki on 12/02/2010 18:32:29 Originally by: lollerwaffle In before 'Op had a question which has been answered. Any further debate is old, tired and akin to flogging a non-living horse. This is not the place to discuss your biased viewpoints. Locked.' -CCP ModXXYY Awww... you're no fun. But a challenger approaches! Originally by: Starchy Jeanus I hereby assert that CCP introduced the mechanics that allow for interstellar janitorial careers in order to REDUCE lag. Mission runners come to the forums to vent their rage at so called ninja salvagers, diverting clicks and keystrokes from the game UI to the web browser. Like moths to a flame, the salvagers and malcontents in general will also be drawn to these threads in order to defend their positions and maximize the extraction of tears, diverting even more in game keystrokes and clicks, resulting in a lighter load on the servers. Please provide a source that refutes this claim. You can post to the forums from the in-game browser. Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
lollerwaffle Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE	Posted - 2010.02.12 18:44:00 - [64] Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki Awww... you're no fun. It's only fun for the first 999 times. Anything after the 1000th thread to this argument is pretty much old, sad, and frankly tiresome. What's being said has been said before, and the various ways in which to say is have also been used. Sorry for spoiling your fun Originally by: salva dore Cloak should not be AFK solution. What do you think? Originally by: AFK Cloaker
Starchy Jeanus	Posted - 2010.02.12 19:22:00 - [65] Edited by: Starchy Jeanus on 12/02/2010 19:22:01 Originally by: Starchy Jeanus I hereby assert that CCP introduced the mechanics that allow for interstellar janitorial careers in order to REDUCE lag. Mission runners come to the forums to vent their rage at so called ninja salvagers, diverting clicks and keystrokes from the game UI to the web browser. Like moths to a flame, the salvagers and malcontents in general will also be drawn to these threads in order to defend their positions and maximize the extraction of tears, diverting even more in game keystrokes and clicks, resulting in a lighter load on the servers. Please provide a source that refutes this claim. You can post to the forums from the in-game browser. I.. er... also assert that actions taken in the IGB have less of an impact on the EVE servers than shooting at NPCs and salvaging their wrecks!
Zifrian Licentia Ex Vereor The Ascendent Dominion	Posted - 2010.02.12 19:24:00 - [66] The issue I have with ninja salvaging is that recent changes to abandoning wrecks don't seem consistent with previous statements by CCP on the issue. If I abandon a wreck, I'm essentially flagging that for anyone to salvage and take loot from. I can understand the loot issue but why bother with marking the wreck? If anyone can salvage it already, then I don't see the reason for this change. Of course, you can now tractor beam the wreck and take loot but it's just not consistent imo. Maybe it's just a coding thing. Maybe it's nothing. But it just doesn't seem to match what they've sayd. Anywho, to those of you that ninja salvage...what's your isk per hour? I'm just curious because I can't believe that it's something that you can make decent money doing. Like to see some numbers though.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.12 19:29:00 - [67] Originally by: Zifrian If I abandon a wreck, I'm essentially flagging that for anyone to ~~salvage and~~ take loot from. I can understand the loot issue but why bother with marking the wreck? If anyone can salvage it already, then I don't see the reason for this change. Sure you can: Quote: you can now tractor beam the wreck and take loot That's the reason. Quote: but it's just not consistent imo What's inconsistent about it? ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Ba'Rumph The Really Awesome Players	Posted - 2010.02.12 19:30:00 - [68] Originally by: Zifrian The issue I have with ninja salvaging is that recent changes to abandoning wrecks don't seem consistent with previous statements by CCP on the issue. If I abandon a wreck, I'm essentially flagging that for anyone to salvage and take loot from. I can understand the loot issue but why bother with marking the wreck? If anyone can salvage it already, then I don't see the reason for this change. Of course, you can now tractor beam the wreck and take loot but it's just not consistent imo. Maybe it's just a coding thing. Maybe it's nothing. But it just doesn't seem to match what they've sayd. Anywho, to those of you that ninja salvage...what's your isk per hour? I'm just curious because I can't believe that it's something that you can make decent money doing. Like to see some numbers though. Now, this is just a guess, but I'd bet that CCP did that to limit the amount of tears on the forums from people who shot looters because they went flashy.
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2010.02.12 19:34:00 - [69] Originally by: Starchy Jeanus Edited by: Starchy Jeanus on 12/02/2010 19:22:01 Originally by: Yuki Kulotsuki Originally by: Starchy Jeanus I hereby assert that CCP introduced the mechanics that allow for interstellar janitorial careers in order to REDUCE lag. Mission runners come to the forums to vent their rage at so called ninja salvagers, diverting clicks and keystrokes from the game UI to the web browser. Like moths to a flame, the salvagers and malcontents in general will also be drawn to these threads in order to defend their positions and maximize the extraction of tears, diverting even more in game keystrokes and clicks, resulting in a lighter load on the servers. Please provide a source that refutes this claim. You can post to the forums from the in-game browser. I.. er... also assert that actions taken in the IGB have less of an impact on the EVE servers than shooting at NPCs and salvaging their wrecks! Mission domi + Aggressive drones + IGB. As for the question about isk/hour. It's less than it used to be for me between unholy rage, sized rigs and filters getting changed around in Apocrypha 1.1. But factor in that I can do it with 850k SP and there's a certain level of enjoyment that comes from it. Each encounter is different. Some times you hit a field of nothing but wrecks because the MR is finished and isn't coming back. Other times you bump into a coordinated op. Occasionally you find mission miners. Once in a while you scan out a BS to find that it's doing a Lvl 1 for standings. Now and again it turns into a race between you, another ninja and a tractor/salvage destroyer. There's also the fun banter in local between you, the MR and the peanut gallery since it usually happens in crowded systems. Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
Mr Kidd	Posted - 2010.02.15 03:31:00 - [70] Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame Ninja salvaging is no big deal either way. It isn't particularly profitable to do unless you're really low-skilled, and it gives missioners a little opportunity for some economic PvP. Actually, no. Ninja salvaging is profitable. If skills and techniques are properly honed and one is willing to loot, it is as profitable as missioning an L4 except in cases of the highly skilled player who can knock out L4's in about 30 minutes. For that kind of skill level one is looking at almost a year's focused skill training. A highly skilled ninja can achieve the necessary level of skills in a fraction of the time that it requires a missioner to reach the skills necessary to consistently complete missions in 30 minutes. Of course this is all predicated on high.sec missioning and ninjaing. Whereas if a missioner is not uber trained in the necessary skills then some missions will require longer periods of time. I ninja about 1 hour a day, a bit more on the weekend, and rake in about 200mil isk/week. Now someone is going to quote that you can make 50mil/hour missioning and that may be true, for some, but I've yet to reach that skill level. Besides, ninjaing is infinitely more engaging than missioning. Coupled with looting, being shot at and a willingness to come back in a pvp fit ship, it's down right exciting. Honestly, it's the best balance between care bearing and pvping that I've found in Eve.
Nefrin Maldoes Minmatar Outer Rim Survey and Salvage	Posted - 2010.02.15 13:13:00 - [71] I demand irrefutable proof that Sarcough Illrilian is not Chesterr theMolester from this thread! ---------- while(horse==dead) { beat(); }
Kyra Felann Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.15 17:07:00 - [72] Edited by: Kyra Felann on 15/02/2010 17:12:46 Originally by: Sarcough Illrilian I don't need any sources, because it's a statement. You write "Source?" does nothing, i made the statement, you can refute it, otherwise I stand unanswered. I backed up my statements with evidence. Yours come from Sarcough's fantasy land in your mind and are completely against the way the game actually works and everything CCP has said. Forgive us if we just roll our eyes and continue on rather than taking anything you say seriously. Also, learn a little about logic and arguments. If you make an argument, it is upon you to prove that. As said earlier, I can't just say "The world is on the back of a giant turtle. It's a statement and if you can't prove me wrong, then I'm right."
Richard Move	Posted - 2010.02.15 18:44:00 - [73] Let's be honest, there are two reasons to ninja-salvage: a) if you're desperately poor and/or you don't have the skills to make isk any other way, and b) you use carebear tears for lubrication because the callouses on your hand are too rough. Personally, given the hazards of jumping into random missions (npc aggro, recon 3/3, etc.,) I would hypothesize that a Tengu would make a great Ninja Salvager. Perma-runs a tank that should be able to handle any level 4, AB for speed, multiple salvagers, a probe launcher, a covert ops cloak to put the ninja in ninja-salavager, and a weapon on the off chance you get warp scrambled by a frigate (no idea if that's enough firepower to kill a NPC frig or not. (Logging off may or may not be a valid option too.)) [Tengu, Richard Move's Ninja Salvager] Power Diagnostic System II Power Diagnostic System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Damage Control II Large Shield Booster II Photon Scattering Field II Explosion Dampening Field II Invulnerability Field II Shield Boost Amplifier II 10MN Afterburner II Assault Missile Launcher II, Bloodclaw Light Missile Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Expanded Probe Launcher I, Combat Scanner Probe I Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding Tengu Electronics - Emergent Locus Analyzer Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Tengu Offensive - Covert Reconfiguration Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst

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