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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |

Doctor Grugon
GRUMPS RESEARCH TEAM Army of Dark Shadows
0
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Posted - 2012.06.29 15:45:00 -
[31] - Quote
Hadley X wrote:Make the portrait background as uniform as possible using a color that is as far from from the colors used in the foreground. This distance is measured in the color space used as a distance function. Any variation of the background color is used as a range of the distance function.
This is the basics of Chroma Key. On most image software that has a color fill tool, that allows a range or sensitivity setting uses this as its basis. Small artifacts created at the foreground / background interface can create some problems if the range is too small or too large. Too small and you get some of the background bleeding into the foreground. too large and the foreground gets 'eaten'. This is mostly a problem with real pictures and a mostly uniform background. It should not be a problem within the context of EVE unless there is some anti-aliasing happening during the rendering of the image or the compression is too high causing the compression artifacts along the sharp edge of the foreground / background.
I wrote one of the first photo I.D. software programs that did this in the early 1990's in DOS. I'm sure the technique has been improved since then, but the above is the core concept. you can also use a static image of the background without the foreground as a key to separate the background from the foreground using the static image as a key. Again due to compression artifacts you will need to use a range function for this to work successfully but it can be done.
Doh, thought I posted with my main... Are you standing where you should be? |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
421
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Posted - 2012.06.29 16:07:00 -
[32] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Why would I do that to drop my character onto a different background?
Okay I will bite, you probably know this but for others. It is all about the details. Some of the best photoshops are debunked because of lighting.
Pay attention to the shadows between the top and bottom pictures Look at the lighting here
The above are just pictures (I haven't looked to see if they were touched up) but you can see how the lighting changes things even with the same subject.
Maybe I can find the actual photoshop picture I was actually looking for, it had a lot of issues but you could clearly see one person had their picture taken outside while the actual subject was inside. Even if they had everything correct it still would have looked false. EVERYBODY KNOWS |

Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1598
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Posted - 2012.06.29 16:26:00 -
[33] - Quote
I'm sorry, but could i have, by chance, a PAUSE-button or something in the main character creation window ?
One that allows me to pause the movement, so i can scroll up/down for shots ?
I know that perspective changes during scrolling, but that's less of an issue.
I have a hard time making more high resolution p**n. :)
edit: I have a hard time making more high resolution p**n. :) now that reads really wrong ... xD Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
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CCP karkur
C C P C C P Alliance
1071

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Posted - 2012.06.29 18:05:00 -
[34] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:I'm sorry, but could i have, by chance, a PAUSE-button or something in the main character creation window ?
One that allows me to pause the movement, so i can scroll up/down for shots ?
I know that perspective changes during scrolling, but that's less of an issue.
I have a hard time making more high resolution p**n. :)
edit: I have a hard time making more high resolution p**n. :) now that reads really wrong ... xD When we changed it so the character stops when you start sculpting, we considered making it so there was button to freeze it instead of freeze it when you start sculpting... is this something more people would be interested in? CCP karkur | User Interface Programmer | Team Avatar | @CCP_karkur |
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Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
292
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Posted - 2012.06.29 18:39:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:When we changed it so the character stops when you start sculpting, we considered making it so there was button to freeze it instead of freeze it when you start sculpting... is this something more people would be interested in?
Pause button would be nice. Given how the "idle" animation loops every so often, it might also be nice if we could get a slider that allowed us to pick certain spots in the animation.
Some of them make for pretty decent shots. :3
(Add in the ability to greenscreen the main customization screen and it'd be even better...) |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
689

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Posted - 2012.06.29 19:59:00 -
[36] - Quote
Just a quick note that these other two dudes are CCP Explorer and CCP t0rfifrans, to link our Twitter identities to our dev characters. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Online, CCP Games | Follow on: Twitter / Google+ |
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CCP Explorer
C C P C C P Alliance
689

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Posted - 2012.06.29 20:39:00 -
[37] - Quote
Cryten Jones wrote:CCP karkur wrote:I hope we can add this, but it would never go in as a selectable background... you could never save your character with this ugly background, and it would be only available if you had some prefs flag set. How about having the rendering server that does the hi detail portraits just generate a green screen one that can be downloaded from eve gate or account management? I'm not so sure that would be useful. For performance reasons then we only render an hour later after you take a new portrait. This is to allow people to change their minds and retake the portrait before we finally re-render. For green-screening / blue-screening purposes I'm assuming that people need an immediate turn-around loop.
The export to PNG with the background as alpha idea is more interesting, except we render the images as JPGs and I don't know how deep into the rendering pipe we would have to go to be able to do that.
On this subject: What are good green/blue-screening values (if statically chosen)? Based on some quick searching for green then 25, 130, 10 ("Japanese Laurel") and for blue then 30, 70, 160 ("Fun Blue") came up. What is your experience? Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson | Software Director | EVE Online, CCP Games | Follow on: Twitter / Google+ |
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Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
160
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Posted - 2012.06.29 21:06:00 -
[38] - Quote
That's getting a little to complex for most people who just want to take the character and put it on a custom background.
I was only trying to make the point that someone who isn't a novice using a coral product will be able to do the same thing without needing the greenscreen effect; almost as fast, and that the greenscreen would be very good for people who only have a really basic understanding of the tools available to them in applications like Photo and Paint shop.
I'm not downing the OP in any way. I think it's actually really neat.
I also don't get why I would ever take multiple pictures using different lighting, when the entire idea is to just be able to change the background. It's not really photomanipulation, it's just a screenshot, and much less complex then working with a photograph.
The cutting tool in coral suits are extremely powerful and when done right won't leave behind any noticable artifacts. Proffesional photographers and artists have been doing exactly this for many years now.
I apologize to the OP if I came across as "pathetic" or being a douche. Arts been my life for the past 30 years. I'm all about people being creative and anything anyone can do that allows more people to be creative, I say go for. |

Tlat Ij
Hedion University Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2012.06.29 22:03:00 -
[39] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:Solstice Project wrote:I'm sorry, but could i have, by chance, a PAUSE-button or something in the main character creation window ?
One that allows me to pause the movement, so i can scroll up/down for shots ?
I know that perspective changes during scrolling, but that's less of an issue.
I have a hard time making more high resolution p**n. :)
edit: I have a hard time making more high resolution p**n. :) now that reads really wrong ... xD When we changed it so the character stops when you start sculpting, we considered making it so there was button to freeze it instead of freeze it when you start sculpting... is this something more people would be interested in? That would be a ridiculously awesome thing. The fact that would avatars are physically unable to sit/stand still is immensely annoying.
P.S. When do I get arm tattoos? I want. |

Poetic Stanziel
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
947
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Posted - 2012.06.29 22:17:00 -
[40] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:I apologize to the OP if I came across as "pathetic" or being a douche. Arts been my life for the past 30 years. I'm all about people being creative and anything anyone can do that allows more people to be creative, I say go for. I didn't take offense. Obviously you're really adept at Photoshop and do things in a way that works best and quickest for you. I, personally, would really benefit with a chroma key (did I use that correctly, Morganta?) background.
The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
528
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Posted - 2012.06.29 22:26:00 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Just a quick note that these other two dudes are CCP Explorer and CCP t0rfifrans, to link our Twitter identities to our dev characters.
You CCP Explorer look awfully alot alike to that first person of the two new dudes we are suppose to get familiar with. I saw you are both CCP Explorer. First time I have run into that. You guys twin brothers or something? I will not be voting in the CSM election, so you need to go vote to make up for me. |

MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
904
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Posted - 2012.06.29 22:28:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP Explorer wrote:Cryten Jones wrote:CCP karkur wrote:I hope we can add this, but it would never go in as a selectable background... you could never save your character with this ugly background, and it would be only available if you had some prefs flag set. How about having the rendering server that does the hi detail portraits just generate a green screen one that can be downloaded from eve gate or account management? I'm not so sure that would be useful. For performance reasons then we only render an hour later after you take a new portrait. This is to allow people to change their minds and retake the portrait before we finally re-render. For green-screening / blue-screening purposes I'm assuming that people need an immediate turn-around loop. The export to PNG with the background as alpha idea is more interesting, except we render the images as JPGs and I don't know how deep into the rendering pipe we would have to go to be able to do that. On this subject: What are good green/blue-screening values (if statically chosen)? Based on some quick searching for green then 25, 130, 10 ("Japanese Laurel") and for blue then 30, 70, 160 ("Fun Blue") came up. What is your experience?
That green sounds about right. we use that over here at RISD. Works for us. Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 sales Xbox 360: 2.2 million PlayStation 3: 1.5 million PC: 500,000http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
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CCP karkur
C C P C C P Alliance
1094

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Posted - 2012.07.04 21:14:00 -
[43] - Quote
Chribba wrote:We just need to make sure this is also implemented in the character viewer in-game. So that we can do nice group stuff with various characters.
/c If someone would implement this, would you want the shadow on the floor gone too? CCP karkur | User Interface Programmer | Team Avatar | @CCP_karkur |
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke
281
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Posted - 2012.07.04 22:12:00 -
[44] - Quote
how about choosing between no shadow and a blue shadow ?
you could make the video without any shadow, but if you want one you can do some magic things to include it in the video |

Poetic Stanziel
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
957
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Posted - 2012.07.04 22:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:Chribba wrote:We just need to make sure this is also implemented in the character viewer in-game. So that we can do nice group stuff with various characters.
/c If someone would implement this, would you want the shadow on the floor gone too? No shadow, would probably be best. It is easy enough to generate a fake shadow, if we need it, on our own backgrounds.
The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |

Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1605
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Posted - 2012.07.04 23:21:00 -
[46] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:Solstice Project wrote:I'm sorry, but could i have, by chance, a PAUSE-button or something in the main character creation window ?
One that allows me to pause the movement, so i can scroll up/down for shots ?
I know that perspective changes during scrolling, but that's less of an issue.
I have a hard time making more high resolution p**n. :)
edit: I have a hard time making more high resolution p**n. :) now that reads really wrong ... xD When we changed it so the character stops when you start sculpting, we considered making it so there was button to freeze it instead of freeze it when you start sculpting... is this something more people would be interested in?
Yes. A button to freeze it would be great ! :D
But ... please let the camera still be moveable/zoomable ! :) Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1605
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Posted - 2012.07.04 23:25:00 -
[47] - Quote
Hey, when we're at it ...
Zoomed close up, when i rightmousebutton and move upwards ... ... shoot ... move ... shot ... move ... shot ... move ... etc.
... i have the problem of perspective frelling up the different screenshots ... ... so they aren't connectable anymore.
Would it be possible to have the camera really parallel to the character ?
It's not that much of an issue, but i dare to ask anyway. :D
Also ... being able to disable the shadow would be nice IMHO.
Thank you for your efforts ! Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |

Goremageddon Box
Guerrilla Flotilla
248
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Posted - 2012.07.04 23:37:00 -
[48] - Quote
would lead to some bad back grounds if people were able to do this.....
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CCP karkur
C C P C C P Alliance
1098

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Posted - 2012.07.04 23:43:00 -
[49] - Quote
Goremageddon Box wrote: would lead to some bad back grounds if people were able to do this.....
We don't want to allow people to save their characters like that... it's only for screenshots and stuff like that, so you can do some fun stuff with your characters  CCP karkur | User Interface Programmer | Team Avatar | @CCP_karkur |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
4046
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Posted - 2012.07.05 08:10:00 -
[50] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:Chribba wrote:We just need to make sure this is also implemented in the character viewer in-game. So that we can do nice group stuff with various characters.
/c If someone would implement this, would you want the shadow on the floor gone too? I'd say yes removed when greenscreen is activated, but hey why not a checkbox so you can chose? 
Keep up the good work!
/c
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CCP karkur
C C P C C P Alliance
1100

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Posted - 2012.07.05 12:05:00 -
[51] - Quote
Chribba wrote:CCP karkur wrote:Chribba wrote:We just need to make sure this is also implemented in the character viewer in-game. So that we can do nice group stuff with various characters.
/c If someone would implement this, would you want the shadow on the floor gone too? I'd say yes removed when greenscreen is activated, but hey why not a checkbox so you can chose?  Keep up the good work! /c OK, to keep it simple, the floor shadow will not be visible when in greenscreen mode.
CCP karkur | User Interface Programmer | Team Avatar | @CCP_karkur |
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Arline Kley
Galactic Rangers
22
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Posted - 2012.07.05 13:14:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:Chribba wrote:CCP karkur wrote:Chribba wrote:We just need to make sure this is also implemented in the character viewer in-game. So that we can do nice group stuff with various characters.
/c If someone would implement this, would you want the shadow on the floor gone too? I'd say yes removed when greenscreen is activated, but hey why not a checkbox so you can chose?  Keep up the good work! /c OK, to keep it simple, the floor shadow will not be visible when in greenscreen mode.
in reference to Chribba's idea, what about having the portrait taker also do a full body image when your posed?- that way when people invaribly make the group shots, they can have people full body poses as well as the "standard" model..
and if this does get the go ahead, I wonder how long it would be until someone made one with EVERY avatar in it (or failing that a lucky 100) Blessed are those that carry the Empress' Light; with it they destroy the shadows |

Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1707
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Posted - 2012.07.05 13:50:00 -
[53] - Quote
really though people, chromakey (eg: bluescreen greenscreen) is a technology more conducive to video, not still images.
its fishing with dynamite, you learn a lot and its fun, but its way overkill for what you are trying to accomplish.
rototools and magic wands are a much better and less intensive route than trying to key a static image.
not saying it wont work, but do you jack up your car with a jack or a construction crane when you have a flat? "You were the chosen one Anakin, you were supposed to bring order to the galaxy, not destroy it!" -Obi Wan (Ben) Kenobi -á |

Ciar Meara
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
716
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Posted - 2012.07.05 13:55:00 -
[54] - Quote
Lukas Rox wrote:This is a very good idea. I've made a few wallpapers with my toons and have experienced the same problem you describe.
+1 I would like to ad your picture to this:
http://www.rushhournews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/topgun2-tom-cruise-val-kilmar.jpg - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow] |

Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
703
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Posted - 2012.07.05 14:36:00 -
[55] - Quote
CCP karkur wrote:Chribba wrote:CCP karkur wrote:Chribba wrote:We just need to make sure this is also implemented in the character viewer in-game. So that we can do nice group stuff with various characters.
/c If someone would implement this, would you want the shadow on the floor gone too? I'd say yes removed when greenscreen is activated, but hey why not a checkbox so you can chose?  Keep up the good work! /c OK, to keep it simple, the floor shadow will not be visible when in greenscreen mode.
The portrait editor needs the green screen tool... Otherwise we can't control expressions in the main editor. Meaning that if I wanted to do expression based animation (perhaps even try to do talking avatars), it's not going to happen.
As morganta said... yes, Green Screening should directed towards video and animation based stuff.
I have plans to do a stop motion with the portrait editor (and have had for about 6 months now) one of my first challenges in the workflow was to find a portrait background that let me easily key out the backgrounds. Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |

Xenuria
Marcabian 5th Invasion Fleet
566
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Posted - 2012.07.05 14:38:00 -
[56] - Quote
Here is a wild idea, how about you make it to the character models are easily exported to something like Maya so that people can make their own fantasy encounters with other eve players?
Xenuria Rising |

Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
703
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Posted - 2012.07.05 15:11:00 -
[57] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:Here is a wild idea, how about you make it to the character models are easily exported to something like Maya so that people can make their own fantasy encounters with other eve players?
Not really as easy as you'd imagine...
The Character animations, the shaders, the textures etc are so heavily coded into the game, you'd have a hard time "Exporting" them. The body morphing, the bones and the modifications aren't going to be easily extracted by the time you have everything done.
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
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CCP karkur
C C P C C P Alliance
1100

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Posted - 2012.07.05 15:37:00 -
[58] - Quote
Arline Kley wrote:in reference to Chribba's idea, what about having the portrait taker also do a full body image when your posed?- that way when people invaribly make the group shots, they can have people full body poses as well as the "standard" model..
and if this does get the go ahead, I wonder how long it would be until someone made one with EVERY avatar in it (or failing that a lucky 100) Yesterday when I was finishing up the greenscreen thing, I started playing with posing the characters in the character preview window as they are in the portraits. I got it somewhat working, but it's so unstable that I would need to spend some time in investigating what's causing it (the client had crashed on me about 30 times in the last 12 hours or so), and since I'm going on vacation tomorrow (yay), I just don't have the time to do that. CCP karkur | User Interface Programmer | Team Avatar | @CCP_karkur |
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CCP karkur
C C P C C P Alliance
1100

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Posted - 2012.07.05 15:41:00 -
[59] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:The portrait editor needs the green screen tool... Otherwise we can't control expressions in the main editor. Meaning that if I wanted to do expression based animation (perhaps even try to do talking avatars), it's not going to happen.
As morganta said... yes, Green Screening should directed towards video and animation based stuff.
I have plans to do a stop motion with the portrait editor (and have had for about 6 months now) one of my first challenges in the workflow was to find a portrait background that let me easily key out the backgrounds. portrait, customization, identity and character preview will all have green backgrounds (I don't want to promise that this will be in the next release, but at least it has been checked in, so let's hope it all works so we can get it out to you ) CCP karkur | User Interface Programmer | Team Avatar | @CCP_karkur |
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Doctor Grugon
GRUMPS RESEARCH TEAM Army of Dark Shadows
1
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Posted - 2012.07.05 15:54:00 -
[60] - Quote
Morganta wrote:really though people, chromakey (eg: bluescreen greenscreen) is a technology more conducive to video, not still images.
its fishing with dynamite, you learn a lot and its fun, but its way overkill for what you are trying to accomplish.
rototools and magic wands are a much better and less intensive route than trying to key a static image.
not saying it wont work, but do you jack up your car with a jack or a construction crane when you have a flat?
This is true, that green screening is primarilly for video and animation because it is easier to separeat the background this way. However, because the renderer is actually dealing with two entities, the avatar model and the background, using a greescreeing technique makes it easier for those that do not have has much skill, patience or time for the magic-wand method. You could call greenscreening on still images a kind of semi-automatic magic-wand.
Still this would be a very interesting tool to add tot he portrait editor. and I would like to be able to get a whole body portrait with a green screen to make it easier that rototooling a screen shot of the CQ.
Are you standing where you should be? |
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