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noamuth Z'ress
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Posted - 2010.02.19 15:57:00 -
[1]
Is anything being done to bring back T2 bpo's? IE through a form of invent on T2 bpc's or through a form of reverse enginering on T2 items with less chance of success for getting a T2 BPO, and maybe a T2 Bpc? sent in a petion asking same and gm said to post here. thank you for your time, Noa
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.02.19 16:13:00 -
[2]
cant you use the search? this has been discussed to death more than once.
but i will be nice. a summary: - we dont need more t2 bpo - this also doesnt mean t2 bpos have to go. - invention is fine. it can create a much higher volume of items. - if you want to be more competitive train up your invention skills. - if you think t2 is not profitable. you are doing it wrong.
just some recent postings that might illustrate it for you: Linkage Linkage2
reading the whole thread is worth it. but those 2 postings illustrates the points.
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noamuth Z'ress
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Posted - 2010.02.19 16:29:00 -
[3]
yea its fine if you are the one that owns some T2 bpo's , and no T2 dont need to be removed. but it does have to become balanced. old players and those that can afford multi billion isk ones off contracts that have say 30-100 ME and yes invent what a max of +3ME BPC still unbalanced as T@ bpo owners still have a great advantage over inventers do. also thank you ive been reading alot of the posts and yes its a heavy topic but little info for a balanced outcome, all ive seen is alot of post with differnt ideas. as this is differnt trying for balance and answers as to how T2 bpo's will be brought back if through hard invent with low % success is still giveing the inventers a chance to compete with T2 bpo owners
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annab
Amarr Dromedaworks inc The Crimson Federation
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Posted - 2010.02.19 16:56:00 -
[4]
Edited by: annab on 19/02/2010 16:58:00 The t2 bpos owners can make the items cheaper but really its the inventors that own the market.
If you really think the t2 bpo owner will undercut the inventor by large amounts is silly they will sell it at the same price. If the market price it too low to turn a profit then simply sell some where else or better reseach something else.
By adding more bpos the rich older players as you call them will just buy more. Save some isk buy a bpo.
Really the only thing that could be improved is the ME/PE vaules.
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noamuth Z'ress
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Posted - 2010.02.19 17:09:00 -
[5]
Edited by: noamuth Z''ress on 19/02/2010 17:10:44 Edited by: noamuth Z''ress on 19/02/2010 17:09:34 not buy them. it would allow players to have a chance to invent or reverse enginer T2 bpo's.. Which with a 10 run bpc you have 70% waste but can produce more at a larger cost including invent costs and fail rate. it would also drop the price of T2 BPO's and any player that can invent would have a chance to make T2 bpo's if so wanted, would also allow newer players to buy/ME/PE then for alot less then billions. yet a T2 bpo owner would be against this cause the prints they own would not be worth billions. also calc the costs needed to invent a 10 run bpc plus waste and fail rate. all to what gain the abilty to build with more then 1 print. or what if ya want ships? ive seen lots of ammo comments about T2 invent bpc's killing the market, but ships ? and the linkage2 above is off 11 run bpc's ?? max is 10 and at 10 runs you have 70% waste and yes pending area value changes but lets say 10k per round at those numbers the BPO holder still makes more profit, based on teh grounds that decrypters arent cheap and fail rate though with luck you can make out like a bandit some days and get a 1-10 success others if not all fail. so its still not balanced. note also that it takes alot to mass produce that kinda stuff at 70% waste.
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.02.19 17:38:00 -
[6]
rofl you suck even at posting, unlikely somebody reads that wall of words completely.
T2 invention is fine, no need for more T2 BPOs since the entire gain of revenue would be consumed by the broader mass of people working for T2 BPOs.
Learn to invent, it gives nice profits from, ranging from 15% to 100%. It's ok as it is.
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noamuth Z'ress
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Posted - 2010.02.19 17:41:00 -
[7]
Edited by: noamuth Z''ress on 19/02/2010 17:42:23 i do invent alot :) and thats one of the reason im here posting. to get answers to things ive heard in game.
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Draconus Lofwyr
Gallente Evasion Fiscale Corp
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Posted - 2010.02.19 17:50:00 -
[8]
perhaps add a new skill and a new pos module for bpc research, give it anchoring V skill level, and only will do me/pe research on t1 and t2 bpc's. possibly with a higher fuel or component cost for the research.
Let it be anchor-able in high and low sec, but not 0.0.
DL
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2010.02.19 17:50:00 -
[9]
you heard what?? There are T2 BPOs ingame, yes, and they arent really a competition to the mass of inventors, unless you pick a bad item.
And no, the situation/your profit would not improve on increase of T2 BPOs ingame, because everyone + his dog would get one and start using it for cheaper T2 manufactoring, undercutting you everywhere.
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noamuth Z'ress
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Posted - 2010.02.19 17:57:00 -
[10]
the pos idea is an idea for the dev's to look into :)
the other is why must it always be about the best and bigest profit ?
what if someone wanted say less waste or just a collection ?
the abilty to invent/reverse enginer a T2 bpo wouldnt hurt the market, based on the above comment that many belive that inventers are teh ones that set market value. so how would it hurt the market to have more T2 bpo's? means some would still invent to try and get them others would not.
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noamuth Z'ress
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Posted - 2010.02.19 18:05:00 -
[11]
Edited by: noamuth Z''ress on 19/02/2010 18:07:05 Edited by: noamuth Z''ress on 19/02/2010 18:05:47
Originally by: Robert Caldera you heard what?? There are T2 BPOs ingame, yes, and they arent really a competition to the mass of inventors, unless you pick a bad item.
And no, the situation/your profit would not improve on increase of T2 BPOs ingame, because everyone + his dog would get one and start using it for cheaper T2 manufactoring, undercutting you everywhere.
the part of profit is in less items to build less data cores at trying to succed. yet would be comped out from trying to invent/reverse engineer a T2 bpo. but the cost per item assembled would be less of a BPO then a BPC. based on waste factor of 1-10 run BPC 10 runs is 70% waste
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.02.19 18:21:00 -
[12]
first i dont own any bpo.i just live happily from invention. all your argumentation shows me you didnt read the 2nd linkage from my posting. there a bpo owner explained why he still makes more profit from invention than from his bpo. cheaper production cost is not everything. you also need volume. and for volume invention beats t2 bpos large scale.
do your math and stop claiming things.
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noamuth Z'ress
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Posted - 2010.02.19 18:53:00 -
[13]
thats where your wrong on the 2nd link it says he has a bpo and 10 slots he uses on 11 run BPC's hmmm show me an 11 run bpc.
max is 10 but hey what do i know right? but this isnt the point and shame on me for entertaining you on this part in this thread.
and yes some can make it work but based on %
again read first post, is anything planed as ive heard?
not what has been discused prior ive spent days reading.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.02.19 18:57:00 -
[14]
you run 11x 10 run bpcs in parallel. :)
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Samantha U
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Posted - 2010.02.19 19:09:00 -
[15]
You've spent days reading up on this topic eh? You seem pretty clueless if you don't know how to do 11 runs with different bpc's.
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noamuth Z'ress
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Posted - 2010.02.19 19:11:00 -
[16]
ill word it differntly. i asked a gm about what i have heard in game and was directed to this link and told to ask here. i first searched and read to see if i could find any post containg invent/reverse engineering a T2 BPO. lots of the same thing apearing in this post about the joys of inventing to have many bpc's to build from. but nothing adressing the the base comment from dev's/gms lots of player coments, which are insightful, but dont answer the reason this post is here. it just adds points of views. but maybe thats how this works the most views one way wins the dev's. :) unknowen
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noamuth Z'ress
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Posted - 2010.02.19 19:17:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Samantha U You've spent days reading up on this topic eh? You seem pretty clueless if you don't know how to do 11 runs with different bpc's.
read it!! lol "11 runs 10 lines" worded that way is backwards to what you 2 have said it means.
and yes there are valid points to the things ive read. but again not why this post was made.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.02.19 19:36:00 -
[18]
Edited by: darius mclever on 19/02/2010 19:36:16 the problem you try to solve with t2 bpo wont be solved that way. t2 invention is really the solution to the problem.
if you want to buff invention a bit, a skill that preserves input ME/PE i could support.
before i forget it. if you really want a t2 bpo. the sell order forum has plenty.
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noamuth Z'ress
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Posted - 2010.02.19 20:03:00 -
[19]
Edited by: noamuth Z''ress on 19/02/2010 20:04:27
Originally by: darius mclever Edited by: darius mclever on 19/02/2010 19:36:16 the problem you try to solve with t2 bpo wont be solved that way. t2 invention is really the solution to the problem.
if you want to buff invention a bit, a skill that preserves input ME/PE i could support.
before i forget it. if you really want a t2 bpo. the sell order forum has plenty.
that is also a valid option :) . even if only 1/3rd of the input me/pe a 10th would still leave alot at 10-30me as seen from T1 BPC's on contracts. if the resulting me/pe of the invented bpc was higher then is posible ATM as based on other post say add 2 to ech lv then that would also address the waste % in turn effecting results. but if i wanted to spend billions on a T@ bpo i would have. again this is based on the rumors of it being an option in upcoming patchs. but what we hear or read in fourms as all know isnt always what happens on patch day.
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Mussaschi
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Posted - 2010.02.21 10:47:00 -
[20]
Always funny to read to let's stay with the facts:
57% of all t2 ships are build from t2 bpo and they have a profitmargin 20-60% better. 3% of all producers have them. Taking that numbers means that around 85% of all profit goes into the hand of 3% of the players for the rest time of eve.
So why talk about it. Don't be discouraged all you new eve players, 15% of the profit is yours.
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Nnamuachs
Caldari Kiith Paktu Veneratio Venator Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.21 15:47:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mussaschi Always funny to read to let's stay with the facts:
57% of all t2 ships are build from t2 bpo and they have a profitmargin 20-60% better. 3% of all producers have them. Taking that numbers means that around 85% of all profit goes into the hand of 3% of the players for the rest time of eve.
So why talk about it. Don't be discouraged all you new eve players, 15% of the profit is yours.
If you're going to try and claim facts then you should provide sources. A little over 20% of the T2 ships in eve don't even have BPO counterparts for them, so I would believe your 57% number to be pulled from your ass.
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Athar Mu
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2010.02.21 19:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Mussaschi Always funny to read to let's stay with the facts:
57% of all t2 ships are build from t2 bpo and they have a profitmargin 20-60% better. 3% of all producers have them. Taking that numbers means that around 85% of all profit goes into the hand of 3% of the players for the rest time of eve.
So why talk about it. Don't be discouraged all you new eve players, 15% of the profit is yours.
I would just like to point you in the direction of this thread and this piece of data from CCP.
You will find that high volume item prices are controlled by Inventors and low volume item prices are controlled by T2 BPO owners.
Some items like EAF's and Marauders don't have T2 BPO's and they are not profitable to invent/produce...go figure!?
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Vokradacka
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Posted - 2010.02.21 22:52:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Athar Mu
I would just like to point you in the direction of this thread and this piece of data from CCP.
You will find that high volume item prices are controlled by Inventors and low volume item prices are controlled by T2 BPO owners.
Some items like EAF's and Marauders don't have T2 BPO's and they are not profitable to invent/produce...go figure!?
so he has true, 56% of T2 ships was produced thr. BPOs.... thats not good
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Don Pellegrino
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.02.22 04:41:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Don Pellegrino on 22/02/2010 04:42:38 As others said, build what's worth building.
Ships aren't profitable? Build something else.
You can make ridiculous amounts of isk with invention. (way more than with a T2 BPO because it scales up) The market prices are clearly dictated by the inventors, except for those unpopular items/ships.
Do your research, build the most profitable items, not necessarily those you need on your ship.
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Mussaschi
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Posted - 2010.02.22 11:04:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Athar Mu
Originally by: Mussaschi Always funny to read to let's stay with the facts:
57% of all t2 ships are build from t2 bpo and they have a profitmargin 20-60% better. 3% of all producers have them. Taking that numbers means that around 85% of all profit goes into the hand of 3% of the players for the rest time of eve.
So why talk about it. Don't be discouraged all you new eve players, 15% of the profit is yours.
I would just like to point you in the direction of this thread and this piece of data from CCP.
You will find that high volume item prices are controlled by Inventors and low volume item prices are controlled by T2 BPO owners.
Some items like EAF's and Marauders don't have T2 BPO's and they are not profitable to invent/produce...go figure!?
True marauders and black ops have no t2 bpo, but a) marauder are good buisness for a inventor, though having 23 failed inventions in a row (which already happened to me, meaning that you have to ready to bet 1 billion, that long term you make money (which you can)). Blackops would be fine too, but like marauders there are no high volume items. I could produce much more, than I could sell. All high volume t2 ships have bpo, and in fact you can make a little money there, but that's it, since the t2 bpo holder control the market. Inventors still can make a little money there, but than, that is the 15% I am talking about.
ps. the 56% comes from the data you linked, so read again
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noamuth Z'ress
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Posted - 2010.03.01 18:53:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Athar Mu
Originally by: Mussaschi Always funny to read to let's stay with the facts:
57% of all t2 ships are build from t2 bpo and they have a profitmargin 20-60% better. 3% of all producers have them. Taking that numbers means that around 85% of all profit goes into the hand of 3% of the players for the rest time of eve.
So why talk about it. Don't be discouraged all you new eve players, 15% of the profit is yours.
I would just like to point you in the direction of this thread and this piece of data from CCP.
You will find that high volume item prices are controlled by Inventors and low volume item prices are controlled by T2 BPO owners.
Some items like EAF's and Marauders don't have T2 BPO's and they are not profitable to invent/produce...go figure!?
which is why i was saying that an option for T2 bpo's would make it worth while to try for. either through reverese engineering or invent. as an option to try for a BPO instead of a BPC, or in the form of say 10-100 succesfuly invents grants a 1% chance of a bpo.
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2010.03.01 20:46:00 -
[27]
Originally by: noamuth Z'ress which is why i was saying that an option for T2 bpo's would make it worth while to try for. either through reverese engineering or invent. as an option to try for a BPO instead of a BPC, or in the form of say 10-100 succesfuly invents grants a 1% chance of a bpo.
No, it wouldn't. Invention is profitable if the demand can not be satisfied with T2 BPOs, leaving room for less profitabillity in production with invented BPCs but making up by more mods beeing sold. EAFs and Marauders are not that profitable to invent because they lack the numbers beeing sold and people inventing them just because they think: there are no BPOs, it MUST be profitable.
So every additional BPO would actually hurt invention. Every T2 BPO destroyed is good.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.01 23:16:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Vokradacka
Originally by: Athar Mu
I would just like to point you in the direction of this thread and this piece of data from CCP.
You will find that high volume item prices are controlled by Inventors and low volume item prices are controlled by T2 BPO owners.
Some items like EAF's and Marauders don't have T2 BPO's and they are not profitable to invent/produce...go figure!?
so he has true, 56% of T2 ships was produced thr. BPOs.... thats not good
Yes, 56% of the T2 ships were produced from BPo, but look the other data:
84% of interceptors come from BPO 25% of the HAC come from BPO 11% of the hulks come from BPO
Notice a trend there?
As a ship type become more profitable control shift in the hands of inventors.
BPO owners are struck with the ships/module they can build from the BPO, inventors shift to what is more profitable.
Remove all the interceptor BPO. Crow price will increase for a few weeks and then it will return to the current level. On the other hand Raptors will practically disappear from market as they give a lesser profit and are inferior ships to its counterpart, so people will not buy them at the increased price inventors will ask.
Same thing for the Eos. Currently it is the worse fleet command ship and inventors tend to avoid it. It will not disappear but the number sold at invention prices will drop. Practically they will become a "built on demand" item for big fleet use.
A lot of lesser used T2 items will go that way if BPO were removed. It would impoverish the market with very little gain for inventors. A T2 BPO is the equivalent of 2,5 PE-4 BPC for the number of items produced. Not a big increase in market share unless a item has very low demand.
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Reinforced Mode
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Posted - 2010.03.02 02:10:00 -
[29]
I agree, bring back t2 bpos. Give a very slight chance to get one with eavh invention try.
I see a lot of t2 bpo owners saying it is ok , no need to change. They fear losing the easy isk, fear what eve should be about, competition.
If they dont fear competition, why post so much and get so annoyed ?
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.03.02 02:14:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Reinforced Mode I agree, bring back t2 bpos. Give a very slight chance to get one with eavh invention try.
I see a lot of t2 bpo owners saying it is ok , no need to change. They fear losing the easy isk, fear what eve should be about, competition.
If they dont fear competition, why post so much and get so annoyed ?
Those are actually people doing inventions, who tell you that we dont need more T2 BPOs.
you want one? buy one, just like the rest of us.
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