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Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.11.26 19:19:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Ilior
I disagree. As we have already established with full skills:
The apoc pulls 750cm3 a minute.
The big barge pulls 970cm3 a minute.
You are mistaken if you think that this is an insignificant amount as in one hour of mining veldspar the barge pulls 132000 more veldspar than the apoc. Thats worth about 800k isk and this value will increase mining higher ores. An min increase of nearly 1 mil an hour is worth it in my book.
Then there is the ice mining and the modulated miners with 156% bonus. As for the low defences (1.) 0.0 mining was never meant to be done solo (2.) Its far less of a risk (the 9 mil retriever being the equivalent miner to the 100 mil apoc)
with full skills the big barge pulls over 1000 per minute actually. (1012.5 I think). Anyway, it's unfair to compare one side with T2-Items (Apoc with miner IIs) and the other side with T1-Items (Barges with Strip Miner Is). IF you want to compare, do it with an Apoc that has only Miner I to get realistic data which is actually comparable.
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Lufio II
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Posted - 2004.11.26 19:19:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Ilior
I disagree. As we have already established with full skills:
The apoc pulls 750cm3 a minute.
The big barge pulls 970cm3 a minute.
You are mistaken if you think that this is an insignificant amount as in one hour of mining veldspar the barge pulls 132000 more veldspar than the apoc. Thats worth about 800k isk and this value will increase mining higher ores. An min increase of nearly 1 mil an hour is worth it in my book.
Then there is the ice mining and the modulated miners with 156% bonus. As for the low defences (1.) 0.0 mining was never meant to be done solo (2.) Its far less of a risk (the 9 mil retriever being the equivalent miner to the 100 mil apoc)
with full skills the big barge pulls over 1000 per minute actually. (1012.5 I think). Anyway, it's unfair to compare one side with T2-Items (Apoc with miner IIs) and the other side with T1-Items (Barges with Strip Miner Is). IF you want to compare, do it with an Apoc that has only Miner I to get realistic data which is actually comparable.
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Druid R
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Posted - 2004.11.26 19:32:00 -
[33]
if ur comparing the apoc at full mining/astro then have to compare barge at lvl 5, also for a new player, ie without many skills it amkes much more sense to go for barge, and dont forget not everybody is amarr and so has to train up all the amarr ship skills > waste of time when barge is there
Dru. |
Druid R
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Posted - 2004.11.26 19:32:00 -
[34]
if ur comparing the apoc at full mining/astro then have to compare barge at lvl 5, also for a new player, ie without many skills it amkes much more sense to go for barge, and dont forget not everybody is amarr and so has to train up all the amarr ship skills > waste of time when barge is there
Dru. |
Jebidus Skari
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Posted - 2004.11.26 19:37:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Lufio II
IF you want to compare, do it with an Apoc that has only Miner I to get realistic data which is actually comparable.
Or do the comparison using the equipment people actually use?
Anyways, it's simple:
Apoc = ~100mil, ferocious mining at a price
Medium Barge = ~11mil with miners, ferocious mining for next to nothing
So yeah, they're worth it...
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Jebidus Skari
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Posted - 2004.11.26 19:37:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Lufio II
IF you want to compare, do it with an Apoc that has only Miner I to get realistic data which is actually comparable.
Or do the comparison using the equipment people actually use?
Anyways, it's simple:
Apoc = ~100mil, ferocious mining at a price
Medium Barge = ~11mil with miners, ferocious mining for next to nothing
So yeah, they're worth it...
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Ilior
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Posted - 2004.11.26 19:43:00 -
[37]
Quote:
with full skills the big barge pulls over 1000 per minute actually. (1012.5 I think).
I dont think you are right, show me your math.
[miners base]*[mining skill]*[astrogeology]*[barge bonus]/3[180 sec cycle] = volume per min
540*3 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 / 3 = 970.3125
Quote:
Anyway, it's unfair to compare one side with T2-Items (Apoc with miner IIs) and the other side with T1-Items (Barges with Strip Miner Is). IF you want to compare, do it with an Apoc that has only Miner I to get realistic data which is actually comparable.
Again I disagree the tech level of an item has no significance - only its current availability and price. Both miner IIs and Strip Miners are available and affordable.
_______________________________________________
The above may be profound wisdom: or misguided rubbish. Either way dont take it too seriously :) |
Ilior
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Posted - 2004.11.26 19:43:00 -
[38]
Quote:
with full skills the big barge pulls over 1000 per minute actually. (1012.5 I think).
I dont think you are right, show me your math.
[miners base]*[mining skill]*[astrogeology]*[barge bonus]/3[180 sec cycle] = volume per min
540*3 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 / 3 = 970.3125
Quote:
Anyway, it's unfair to compare one side with T2-Items (Apoc with miner IIs) and the other side with T1-Items (Barges with Strip Miner Is). IF you want to compare, do it with an Apoc that has only Miner I to get realistic data which is actually comparable.
Again I disagree the tech level of an item has no significance - only its current availability and price. Both miner IIs and Strip Miners are available and affordable.
_______________________________________________
The above may be profound wisdom: or misguided rubbish. Either way dont take it too seriously :) |
Dsanta
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Posted - 2004.11.26 19:51:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Ilior
Quote:
with full skills the big barge pulls over 1000 per minute actually. (1012.5 I think).
I dont think you are right, show me your math.
[miners base]*[mining skill]*[astrogeology]*[barge bonus]/3[180 sec cycle] = volume per min
540*3 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 / 3 = 970.3125
Quote:
Anyway, it's unfair to compare one side with T2-Items (Apoc with miner IIs) and the other side with T1-Items (Barges with Strip Miner Is). IF you want to compare, do it with an Apoc that has only Miner I to get realistic data which is actually comparable.
Again I disagree the tech level of an item has no significance - only its current availability and price. Both miner IIs and Strip Miners are available and affordable.
i really dont care, this thread is pointless, an apoc ant mine ice, a barge can, end of story, so drop it.
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Linkage |
Dsanta
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Posted - 2004.11.26 19:51:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ilior
Quote:
with full skills the big barge pulls over 1000 per minute actually. (1012.5 I think).
I dont think you are right, show me your math.
[miners base]*[mining skill]*[astrogeology]*[barge bonus]/3[180 sec cycle] = volume per min
540*3 * 1.25 * 1.25 * 1.15 / 3 = 970.3125
Quote:
Anyway, it's unfair to compare one side with T2-Items (Apoc with miner IIs) and the other side with T1-Items (Barges with Strip Miner Is). IF you want to compare, do it with an Apoc that has only Miner I to get realistic data which is actually comparable.
Again I disagree the tech level of an item has no significance - only its current availability and price. Both miner IIs and Strip Miners are available and affordable.
i really dont care, this thread is pointless, an apoc ant mine ice, a barge can, end of story, so drop it.
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Linkage |
Ilior
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Posted - 2004.11.26 19:58:00 -
[41]
Woah steady on just a bit of discusion, if it really offends you, dont read the thread
_______________________________________________
The above may be profound wisdom: or misguided rubbish. Either way dont take it too seriously :) |
Ilior
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Posted - 2004.11.26 19:58:00 -
[42]
Woah steady on just a bit of discusion, if it really offends you, dont read the thread
_______________________________________________
The above may be profound wisdom: or misguided rubbish. Either way dont take it too seriously :) |
Bubba Fett
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Posted - 2004.11.26 20:27:00 -
[43]
In some cases the mining barge makes more sense, in others it doesn't.
Consider this: At 540m per cycle the strip miner has a base output of 180m per minute. This is 3 times the base output of a miner2. Add in your skill bonus's and the strip miner is still equal to 3 miner2's. Add in your barge bonus and it gets a bit better than 3 miner2's.
But is it worthwhile?
A small mining barge has less mining output than an execuror or vexor. It costs less, but is only good for one thing and neeeds WAY more skills to run and is much more fragile.
A med mining barge has about the same output as a dominix (or an osprey at caldari cruiser 5) Costs a lot less than the dom and has a bigger hold, but is much weaker and can't solo mine in med/low sec space. (.7 or better would probably be OK though)
A large mining barge has about 10% more output than an apoc for less than half the cost. 10 med drones will keep you alive in .5 space no problem, but it's probably not durable enough for solo mining in low sec space.
In my opinion, if you've already got most of the skills needed and do a lot of high sec mining a med or large barge might be worthwhile, otherwise you're better off with miner2's till the modulated strip miners and crystals come out.
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Bubba Fett
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Posted - 2004.11.26 20:27:00 -
[44]
In some cases the mining barge makes more sense, in others it doesn't.
Consider this: At 540m per cycle the strip miner has a base output of 180m per minute. This is 3 times the base output of a miner2. Add in your skill bonus's and the strip miner is still equal to 3 miner2's. Add in your barge bonus and it gets a bit better than 3 miner2's.
But is it worthwhile?
A small mining barge has less mining output than an execuror or vexor. It costs less, but is only good for one thing and neeeds WAY more skills to run and is much more fragile.
A med mining barge has about the same output as a dominix (or an osprey at caldari cruiser 5) Costs a lot less than the dom and has a bigger hold, but is much weaker and can't solo mine in med/low sec space. (.7 or better would probably be OK though)
A large mining barge has about 10% more output than an apoc for less than half the cost. 10 med drones will keep you alive in .5 space no problem, but it's probably not durable enough for solo mining in low sec space.
In my opinion, if you've already got most of the skills needed and do a lot of high sec mining a med or large barge might be worthwhile, otherwise you're better off with miner2's till the modulated strip miners and crystals come out.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2004.11.26 20:45:00 -
[45]
For mining Asteroid Belts the Barge is absoloutly disapointing.
The only barge that's acctually some 20% better then an Apoc is the biggest one, which requires three Level 5 Skills to operate and costs around 40 million ISK.
I don't think we're going to see a big change in the belts, The only people I see training level 5 skills so they can swich the best armor in the galaxy for about 20% more yield are AFK miners in ratless belts. For everyone else Barges are essentially Ice-miners.
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Noriath
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Posted - 2004.11.26 20:45:00 -
[46]
For mining Asteroid Belts the Barge is absoloutly disapointing.
The only barge that's acctually some 20% better then an Apoc is the biggest one, which requires three Level 5 Skills to operate and costs around 40 million ISK.
I don't think we're going to see a big change in the belts, The only people I see training level 5 skills so they can swich the best armor in the galaxy for about 20% more yield are AFK miners in ratless belts. For everyone else Barges are essentially Ice-miners.
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Harklite
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Posted - 2004.11.26 20:49:00 -
[47]
I'm solo ice mining in 0.6 as I type.
I can handle any spawn here you just need to fit the right mods.
Think armour tanking. 
Even easyer in amarr space if you do. 
My only concern is the foul warp distance. 
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Harklite
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Posted - 2004.11.26 20:49:00 -
[48]
I'm solo ice mining in 0.6 as I type.
I can handle any spawn here you just need to fit the right mods.
Think armour tanking.
Even easyer in amarr space if you do.
My only concern is the foul warp distance.
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Earthan
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Posted - 2004.11.26 20:57:00 -
[49]
Idara imho you are wrong
Compare the apoc with the larger barge and the modulated miners with crystals.
ITs a viable compare when you take in mind skills and cash needed to fly apoc.
With a large barge yuo can fit 3 modulated strip miners ,With crytal its 675 each lets assume 59 % more its 1073 , 3 high slots its 3 x 1073 then divide by 3 due to time its 1073.
A bit better to apoc 720 no?
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Earthan
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Posted - 2004.11.26 20:57:00 -
[50]
Idara imho you are wrong
Compare the apoc with the larger barge and the modulated miners with crystals.
ITs a viable compare when you take in mind skills and cash needed to fly apoc.
With a large barge yuo can fit 3 modulated strip miners ,With crytal its 675 each lets assume 59 % more its 1073 , 3 high slots its 3 x 1073 then divide by 3 due to time its 1073.
A bit better to apoc 720 no?
Stars, stars like dust, all around me.... |
Rephern Muare
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Posted - 2004.11.26 21:25:00 -
[51]
all bs's should get hits to mining in them...maybe a 20% hit to mining in them. Then the bs can be in its true role, fighting
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Rephern Muare
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Posted - 2004.11.26 21:25:00 -
[52]
all bs's should get hits to mining in them...maybe a 20% hit to mining in them. Then the bs can be in its true role, fighting
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Tenashi
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Posted - 2004.11.26 21:32:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Tenashi on 26/11/2004 21:35:05
m2 gives 93.75 ore/min
also in the apoc u can use 6-7 harvies with 3 heavy drones for defense or all harvies(mining drone 5) if u have a 2nd account/friend mining with u and do defense so it outmines a barge for quite some time :)
Everlasting Vendetta - Search |
Tenashi
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Posted - 2004.11.26 21:32:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Tenashi on 26/11/2004 21:35:05
m2 gives 93.75 ore/min
also in the apoc u can use 6-7 harvies with 3 heavy drones for defense or all harvies(mining drone 5) if u have a 2nd account/friend mining with u and do defense so it outmines a barge for quite some time :)
Everlasting Vendetta - Search |
marioman
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Posted - 2004.11.26 21:45:00 -
[55]
erm a large barge can fit 10 harvs, so again more ore than an apoc
it can also fit 4 heavy drones if ur mining in low sec
the medium is a nice barge for the money, im mining to build my raven atm, which i was using an osprey b4 the patch. Being caldari Osprey used to be my best mining choice, now I have a med barge which, albeit not better than an apoc but 200m3 faster than an osprey with just lasers. Plus it has an extra 100m3 drone.
One thing i've noticed a miscomparison on is the sizes, the small is in the frigate range, medium is cruiser range, large is in the BS range.
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marioman
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Posted - 2004.11.26 21:45:00 -
[56]
erm a large barge can fit 10 harvs, so again more ore than an apoc
it can also fit 4 heavy drones if ur mining in low sec
the medium is a nice barge for the money, im mining to build my raven atm, which i was using an osprey b4 the patch. Being caldari Osprey used to be my best mining choice, now I have a med barge which, albeit not better than an apoc but 200m3 faster than an osprey with just lasers. Plus it has an extra 100m3 drone.
One thing i've noticed a miscomparison on is the sizes, the small is in the frigate range, medium is cruiser range, large is in the BS range.
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Kerry
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Posted - 2004.11.26 21:56:00 -
[57]
IMHO...
These mining barges, plain and simply, seem to be pointed at one goal... to make mining as painful as possible.
They can fit nothing(other than them strip miners), they go slower then a two legged dog, and almost collapse in on themselves if looked at funny.
They need a serious boost in proficiency to take them all the way out of the Apocalypse's playing field for all this torture... |
Kerry
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Posted - 2004.11.26 21:56:00 -
[58]
IMHO...
These mining barges, plain and simply, seem to be pointed at one goal... to make mining as painful as possible.
They can fit nothing(other than them strip miners), they go slower then a two legged dog, and almost collapse in on themselves if looked at funny.
They need a serious boost in proficiency to take them all the way out of the Apocalypse's playing field for all this torture... |
rowbin hod
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Posted - 2004.11.26 22:06:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Kerry
IMHO...
These mining barges, plain and simply, seem to be pointed at one goal... to make mining as painful as possible.
They can fit nothing(other than them strip miners), they go slower then a two legged dog, and almost collapse in on themselves if looked at funny.
They need a serious boost in proficiency to take them all the way out of the Apocalypse's playing field for all this torture...
Ok, I'll race you. You in your apoc, me in my mining barge. First one to mine enough ice to get a pos online wins.
Ready.....
Set.....
pwned 
---
"Due to the European lard shortage, we are currently unable to supply this product." |
rowbin hod
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Posted - 2004.11.26 22:06:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Kerry
IMHO...
These mining barges, plain and simply, seem to be pointed at one goal... to make mining as painful as possible.
They can fit nothing(other than them strip miners), they go slower then a two legged dog, and almost collapse in on themselves if looked at funny.
They need a serious boost in proficiency to take them all the way out of the Apocalypse's playing field for all this torture...
Ok, I'll race you. You in your apoc, me in my mining barge. First one to mine enough ice to get a pos online wins.
Ready.....
Set.....
pwned
---
"Due to the European lard shortage, we are currently unable to supply this product." |
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