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Mining Barges - Not that much better?

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Idara	Posted - 2004.11.26 16:53:00 - [1] I've been looking at the Mining Barges and the like this morning, and have decided to do a little calculating to figure out if they really are that much better... Let's start with the Mining ship we all know and love, the Apocalypse. Level 5 Mining, Astrogeology will bring the total yield of a Miner II from 60 ore per/minute to 90 ore per/minute, a 50% increase. Looking at the Strip Miners, we see that they do a whopping 540 ore per/cycle, but this cycle is 3 times longer than the 60 second Miner II cycle. Looking at the most reasonable Mining Barge, the Retriever, the Covetor is a little much so early, we see 2 slots for Strip Miner's, and at Level 3 Mining Barge, we get a total increase of 59% with the previously mentioned skills. So...540 + 59% = 858.6 ore per/cycle. Times this by two and we got 1717.2 ore per/cycle. Lots eh? But seeing that it's cycle is 3 times longer... 1717.2 / 3 = 572.4 ore per/minute. Wait, isn't that less than the Apoc? And doesn't the Apoc have greater defenses, and a larger Drone bay? Well let's look at the Covetor then 540 + 65% (L5 Mining Barge adds 15% to the basic skills) = 891 ore per/cycle, times 3 = 2673 ore per/cycle, again dividing by 3 we get...891 ore per/minute. That's hardly worth the extra training time and the inherant weakness in the Mining Barge's defenses. Did I miss some extra added bonus? Or are the Mining Barges not all they're ***ed up to be? Idara Section Leader - Security & Warfare Member of Metatron Incorporated**
Idara	Posted - 2004.11.26 16:53:00 - [2] I've been looking at the Mining Barges and the like this morning, and have decided to do a little calculating to figure out if they really are that much better... Let's start with the Mining ship we all know and love, the Apocalypse. Level 5 Mining, Astrogeology will bring the total yield of a Miner II from 60 ore per/minute to 90 ore per/minute, a 50% increase. Looking at the Strip Miners, we see that they do a whopping 540 ore per/cycle, but this cycle is 3 times longer than the 60 second Miner II cycle. Looking at the most reasonable Mining Barge, the Retriever, the Covetor is a little much so early, we see 2 slots for Strip Miner's, and at Level 3 Mining Barge, we get a total increase of 59% with the previously mentioned skills. So...540 + 59% = 858.6 ore per/cycle. Times this by two and we got 1717.2 ore per/cycle. Lots eh? But seeing that it's cycle is 3 times longer... 1717.2 / 3 = 572.4 ore per/minute. Wait, isn't that less than the Apoc? And doesn't the Apoc have greater defenses, and a larger Drone bay? Well let's look at the Covetor then 540 + 65% (L5 Mining Barge adds 15% to the basic skills) = 891 ore per/cycle, times 3 = 2673 ore per/cycle, again dividing by 3 we get...891 ore per/minute. That's hardly worth the extra training time and the inherant weakness in the Mining Barge's defenses. Did I miss some extra added bonus? Or are the Mining Barges not all they're ***ed up to be? Idara Section Leader - Security & Warfare Member of Metatron Incorporated**
cashman	Posted - 2004.11.26 16:57:00 - [3] Edited by: cashman on 26/11/2004 17:03:38 Costs much less? That's why I'm getting one. Can't afford a battleship atm. ____________________________________ »»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
cashman	Posted - 2004.11.26 16:57:00 - [4] Edited by: cashman on 26/11/2004 17:03:38 Costs much less? That's why I'm getting one. Can't afford a battleship atm. ____________________________________ »»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
Estios	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:05:00 - [5] I dont much about mining but I think you are missing the fact that ONLY mining barges can mine Ice and other moon based stuff Kind of the point of them ....... (i think) So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
Estios	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:05:00 - [6] I dont much about mining but I think you are missing the fact that ONLY mining barges can mine Ice and other moon based stuff Kind of the point of them ....... (i think) So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
Wotok	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:05:00 - [7] You forgot the ice miner. afaik that's only possible with barges. -- Wotok has no brain!
Wotok	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:05:00 - [8] You forgot the ice miner. afaik that's only possible with barges. -- Wotok has no brain!
jukriamrr	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:06:00 - [9] Repeat the following sentence a thousand times: "Apocs were not originally meant for mining" Fact is, they are good at it... just because the are, however, does not mean the barges should have stats and capabilities based on a ship used not for its primary role. I yearn for the day when there will be mining hardpoints. No more mining in apocs :) But that's just me ;)
jukriamrr	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:06:00 - [10] Repeat the following sentence a thousand times: "Apocs were not originally meant for mining" Fact is, they are good at it... just because the are, however, does not mean the barges should have stats and capabilities based on a ship used not for its primary role. I yearn for the day when there will be mining hardpoints. No more mining in apocs :) But that's just me ;)
Sarela	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:08:00 - [11] Quote: Icefields are similar to normal asteroid fields and mining them works the same, except players need a special mining laser to extract the ores. Quote: Harvesting gas clouds can also be profitable and needs an Gas Cloud Harvester Quote: Comets travel at high speeds needing you to keep up to be able to harvest it's ores. Being in the trail of the comet (less than 50km away from it) will yield minerals if the ship is equipped with a Dust harvester. These 3 new gun types can only be used by the mining barge.
Sarela	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:08:00 - [12] Quote: Icefields are similar to normal asteroid fields and mining them works the same, except players need a special mining laser to extract the ores. Quote: Harvesting gas clouds can also be profitable and needs an Gas Cloud Harvester Quote: Comets travel at high speeds needing you to keep up to be able to harvest it's ores. Being in the trail of the comet (less than 50km away from it) will yield minerals if the ship is equipped with a Dust harvester. These 3 new gun types can only be used by the mining barge.
Tesol Xarto	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:15:00 - [13] yep, for "normal" mining only the biggest barge is better than the apoc. but maybee that will change with new lasers and/or crystals. atm i get 750m¦/min with my apoc and 579m¦/min with the retriever. the covetor would do 970m¦/min but barge is a rank4 skill and that'll take time to lvl5 :-) ======= WOTOK HAS NO BRAIN sobriety sucks / eating nuclear waste might give you indigestion
Tesol Xarto	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:15:00 - [14] yep, for "normal" mining only the biggest barge is better than the apoc. but maybee that will change with new lasers and/or crystals. atm i get 750m¦/min with my apoc and 579m¦/min with the retriever. the covetor would do 970m¦/min but barge is a rank4 skill and that'll take time to lvl5 :-) ======= WOTOK HAS NO BRAIN sobriety sucks / eating nuclear waste might give you indigestion
Mariah Lawsara	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:20:00 - [15] Edited by: Mariah Lawsara on 26/11/2004 17:23:26 Question: Can you fit a strip miner/ice miner on an Indy? I know it'll be barely useful, since the Indies have no drones for defence against pirates and are only able to equip one of the mining beams, but it's something for the newbie miners to use while waiting for the skills for Mining barges... ----------------- Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves. - Henry David Thoreau
Mariah Lawsara	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:20:00 - [16] Edited by: Mariah Lawsara on 26/11/2004 17:23:26 Question: Can you fit a strip miner/ice miner on an Indy? I know it'll be barely useful, since the Indies have no drones for defence against pirates and are only able to equip one of the mining beams, but it's something for the newbie miners to use while waiting for the skills for Mining barges... ----------------- Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves. - Henry David Thoreau
Tesol Xarto	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:21:00 - [17] no, stripminer has 3000cpu need ======= WOTOK HAS NO BRAIN sobriety sucks / eating nuclear waste might give you indigestion
Tesol Xarto	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:21:00 - [18] no, stripminer has 3000cpu need ======= WOTOK HAS NO BRAIN sobriety sucks / eating nuclear waste might give you indigestion
Mariah Lawsara	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:23:00 - [19] And the others? I'm kind of at work at the moment so I dunno how much CPU/powergrid each one needs... ----------------- Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves. - Henry David Thoreau
Mariah Lawsara	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:23:00 - [20] And the others? I'm kind of at work at the moment so I dunno how much CPU/powergrid each one needs... ----------------- Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves. - Henry David Thoreau
Ruby LeFonte	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:27:00 - [21] Originally by: jukriamrr I yearn for the day when there will be mining hardpoints. No more mining in apocs :) But that's just me ;) Nope, that's also a fair chunk of the mining population... As long as there's something better at mining than a barge, I'll take that. Just because we are paranoid, doesn't mean you're not out to get us.
Ruby LeFonte	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:27:00 - [22] Originally by: jukriamrr I yearn for the day when there will be mining hardpoints. No more mining in apocs :) But that's just me ;) Nope, that's also a fair chunk of the mining population... As long as there's something better at mining than a barge, I'll take that. Just because we are paranoid, doesn't mean you're not out to get us.
Tesol Xarto	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:27:00 - [23] hmm ice harvester also has 3000, i don't find the others, but i asume it will be similar. ======= WOTOK HAS NO BRAIN sobriety sucks / eating nuclear waste might give you indigestion
Tesol Xarto	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:27:00 - [24] hmm ice harvester also has 3000, i don't find the others, but i asume it will be similar. ======= WOTOK HAS NO BRAIN sobriety sucks / eating nuclear waste might give you indigestion
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:27:00 - [25] Originally by: Idara Level 5 Mining, Astrogeology will bring the total yield of a Miner II from 60 ore per/minute to 90 ore per/minute, a 50% increase. Looking at the Strip Miners, we see that they do a whopping 540 ore per/cycle, but this cycle is 3 times longer than the 60 second Miner II cycle. we get a total increase of 59% with the previously mentioned skills. 540 + 65% (L5 Mining Barge adds 15% to the basic skills) = 891 ore per/cycle, times 3 = 2673 ore per/cycle, again dividing by 3 we get...891 ore per/minute. That's hardly worth the extra training time and the inherant weakness in the Mining Barge's defenses. Did I miss some extra added bonus? Or are the Mining Barges not all they're ****ed up to be? skills dont add, they multiply - so its : 100 25% * 25% = +56.25% (93.75m3 - 843.75 for three running for three minutes) 100 * 25% * 25% * 9% = +70.31% (919.#m3) 100 * 25% * 25% * 15% = +79.68% (970.#m3 or Apoc with 8 miner II = 750m3/minute Coveter with 3 strip miner I = 970m3/minute Oveur has always responded to previous threads on the topic with basically : "Wait till you see the strip miner II " . ----- Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2004.11.26 17:27:00 - [26] Originally by: Idara Level 5 Mining, Astrogeology will bring the total yield of a Miner II from 60 ore per/minute to 90 ore per/minute, a 50% increase. Looking at the Strip Miners, we see that they do a whopping 540 ore per/cycle, but this cycle is 3 times longer than the 60 second Miner II cycle. we get a total increase of 59% with the previously mentioned skills. 540 + 65% (L5 Mining Barge adds 15% to the basic skills) = 891 ore per/cycle, times 3 = 2673 ore per/cycle, again dividing by 3 we get...891 ore per/minute. That's hardly worth the extra training time and the inherant weakness in the Mining Barge's defenses. Did I miss some extra added bonus? Or are the Mining Barges not all they're ****ed up to be? skills dont add, they multiply - so its : 100 25% * 25% = +56.25% (93.75m3 - 843.75 for three running for three minutes) 100 * 25% * 25% * 9% = +70.31% (919.#m3) 100 * 25% * 25% * 15% = +79.68% (970.#m3 or Apoc with 8 miner II = 750m3/minute Coveter with 3 strip miner I = 970m3/minute Oveur has always responded to previous threads on the topic with basically : "Wait till you see the strip miner II " . ----- Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Ilior	Posted - 2004.11.26 19:03:00 - [27] I disagree. As we have already established with full skills: The apoc pulls 750cm3 a minute. The big barge pulls 970cm3 a minute. You are mistaken if you think that this is an insignificant amount as in one hour of mining veldspar the barge pulls 132000 more veldspar than the apoc. Thats worth about 800k isk and this value will increase mining higher ores. An min increase of nearly 1 mil an hour is worth it in my book. Then there is the ice mining and the modulated miners with 156% bonus. As for the low defences (1.) 0.0 mining was never meant to be done solo (2.) Its far less of a risk (the 9 mil retriever being the equivalent miner to the 100 mil apoc) _______________________________________________ The above may be profound wisdom: or misguided rubbish. Either way dont take it too seriously :)
Ilior	Posted - 2004.11.26 19:03:00 - [28] I disagree. As we have already established with full skills: The apoc pulls 750cm3 a minute. The big barge pulls 970cm3 a minute. You are mistaken if you think that this is an insignificant amount as in one hour of mining veldspar the barge pulls 132000 more veldspar than the apoc. Thats worth about 800k isk and this value will increase mining higher ores. An min increase of nearly 1 mil an hour is worth it in my book. Then there is the ice mining and the modulated miners with 156% bonus. As for the low defences (1.) 0.0 mining was never meant to be done solo (2.) Its far less of a risk (the 9 mil retriever being the equivalent miner to the 100 mil apoc) _______________________________________________ The above may be profound wisdom: or misguided rubbish. Either way dont take it too seriously :)
Mydrial Jacor	Posted - 2004.11.26 19:13:00 - [29] You also need to account that you're getting a good ore mining capability at a much reduced investment cost (i.e barges cost less than battleships).
Mydrial Jacor	Posted - 2004.11.26 19:13:00 - [30] You also need to account that you're getting a good ore mining capability at a much reduced investment cost (i.e barges cost less than battleships).

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