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Lord Dralos
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Posted - 2010.03.04 18:41:00 -
[31]
actually you can buy covetors for around 17.5 mill add on lasers and rigs looking closer to 25 mill and still super easy to pop it still comes back to same thing i posted before risk vs isk. try reading what i wrote also i was on about warship costs vs mining ship costs before you go into your little stupidity mode of trying to flame. flamers are lame especially when they flame before they read imo.
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Abulurd Boniface
Gallente Gangrel Mining and Security
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Posted - 2010.03.04 18:46:00 -
[32]
Originally by: XXSketchxx
covetors cost like...10 mil? and are fully insurable
you dont have to use a hulk
the rest of your post follows this basic breakdown in understanding of the game so I won't bother to address its fallacies
You don't know what you're talking about. Covetors will run about 17 mil. There is no way to give it a decent tank. An exhumer is very vulnerable, even if tanked, a barge can't be tanked at all. Also, and more importantly, the hold in a barge is significantly smaller than that of an exhumer. That means a lot more to-ing and fro-ing. The ore types that are worthy to be mined are extremely dense and fill up a hold in no time. For any significant volume, and volume is what it's all about if you're a miner, that means an unconscionable amount of times we have to go back and forth.
And all because -you- would have a chance to then blow up the ship.
Besides sneering at us because -we- have the balls to run the boat that has no defenses, not you, do you also think we're especially stupid?
For good to survive it suffices for evil to acquire a deadly, incapacitating disease. |
Reggie Stoneloader
JAFA Trade and Manufacturing Cooperative
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Posted - 2010.03.04 20:20:00 -
[33]
Flaming aside, why should ore be the draw for low-sec? It's a violent, chaotic place, more dangerous than most of 0.0, which is often secured by alliances with chokepoint sentries reporting threats several jumps before they can reach your Hulks and Ravens. 0.0 is where you should be doing advanced mining. The ore is better, the security is better, and since mining is a collective effort in most cases, the infrastructure is better. You pay some taxes and you might have to arrange to have your stuff jumped to market, but it's where the rocks are sweet and the gankers are largely held at bay by blob-power. Luring miners in their fragile boats out to low-sec space is just foolish to imagine. ======================
Crusades: Security Status |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.04 21:42:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Sig Sour
Originally by: Venkul Mul Wrong Sour.
CCP increased Veldspar availability in high sec, no other ore.
You say I am wrong and then prove me right. What gives?
If you said I was wrong and then said "They cut the respawn time for high sec belts in half." I would say, gee Mul, I am a fool, thanks for pointing that out. But that is not the case. CCP added more minerals to high sec, therefore giving less reason to go to low sec. Which I may remind you is the main topic here, not the economy.
Let's see if you get it: - veldspar (and only veldspar) re-spawn rate was buffed - that push tritanium price down - pushing tritanium price down push the other minerals up - pushing the other minerals up help low sec - that is the mineral basket at work.
Got it?
If you think that pushing tritanium availability up is a damage to low sec, you are really wrong.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.04 22:12:00 -
[35]
Originally by: XXSketchxx
Originally by: Lord Dralos
which by the way our ships generally start at 100 mill and work their way up in isks the only one of the mining ships that even has a basic tank ability is the hulk and its T2 so your pretty much out of luck to insure it. this is risk hundreds of millions of isks in low sec to be either jumped at gates scrammed in roid fields or just harrassed pretty much by everyone who want to have an easy and expencive kill for their kill boards.
covetors cost like...10 mil? and are fully insurable
you dont have to use a hulk
the rest of your post follows this basic breakdown in understanding of the game so I won't bother to address its fallacies
and his "tank" (LOL) can be broken by a NPC.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.03.04 22:42:00 -
[36]
Edited by: XXSketchxx on 04/03/2010 22:42:39
Originally by: Abulurd Boniface
And all because -you- would have a chance to then blow up the ship.
Besides sneering at us because -we- have the balls to run the boat that has no defenses, not you, do you also think we're especially stupid?
people like you are who give all carebears a bad name
this you/we crap...do you make these kind of stupid assumptions in real life too?...check out my posts and who I am...I've been a miner and still do it on occasion...not to mention the fact that I have a running thread on a T3 industrial
Okay so I was off by a bit in isk, sorry I haven't looked at the price in ages...the point is that the covetor is still a viable option that none of you accept because its not the OMGSUPERMINER that the hulk is.
Before wormholes came out, I mined in 0.0 with a covetor because it was worth it. Belt rats come in? Warp off. Hostiles in local? Dock up. No different than being in a combat pve ship. I've also done the rat tanked hulk in 0.0. There are risks, but as long as the rewards fit them, they are okay. The problem with low sec is not that the covetor or hulk are too weak, its simply that there is no damn point in mining in low sec (unless you find a hidden belt, but this should not be the only reason to mine there).
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-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.03.04 22:52:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Lord Dralos actually you can buy covetors for around 17.5 mill add on lasers and rigs looking closer to 25 mill and still super easy to pop it still comes back to same thing i posted before risk vs isk. try reading what i wrote also i was on about warship costs vs mining ship costs before you go into your little stupidity mode of trying to flame. flamers are lame especially when they flame before they read imo.
okay we'll go back to your post
1. You assume Hulk is the only way to mine. This is wrong 2. You assume everyone uses T1 crap to fight. This is wrong 3. You are comparing PvP combat ships with industrial ships (PVE). Compare a ratting ship to a mining ship. Guess what? The end is going to be the same. _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
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Kharamete
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Posted - 2010.03.04 23:18:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Zabby Gabby Edited by: Zabby Gabby on 28/02/2010 10:28:13 Ok... so everyone knows there is pretty much no point mining in low sec, thanks to the reward/danger ratio being really bad compared to highsec.
I would have thought that if all low-sec stations are given better refining percentages than any high-sec station, people would be more willing to mine and refine there. (Maby even the lower the sec status, the better)
E.g. In 0.4 Sec, stations would give you 20% more mins for your ore. And then up to 50% more mins in 0.1 sec.
Two things would happen because of this:
1) There would be many more miners in low-sec to cash in on the profits, as the reward/danger ratio is not nearly as bad.
2) There would be many haulers full of ore coming to low-sec to refine their minerals.
I would have though this would populate low-sec much more with miners/haulers.
What does everyone think?
I'll be honest - i find it highly amusing that when people whine about the population of lowsec they always request more miners and haulers, not more pvp'ers.
There is no freaking point for an industrialist to mine in lowsec. To fix that you would have to kill high sec AND 0.0, well at least the bit of 0.0 known as wormhole space. The adventurous industrialists sit down, look at the options, weigh the risks and rewards, and then always choose wormholespace before lowsec.
The reason is simple. Going to lowsec is suicide with near zero reward. Going to wormholespace is a manageable risk for higher rewards. You can still be killed in wh-space. Your situational awareness in wh-space is compromised without local. But, they key difference is, you can manage you risk there. You can't do so in lowsec.
The only fix you have to get more people into lowsec is to kill off wh-space, drastically nerf 0.0, and kill yields in high sec. Until that time, low sec will always be the option of last resort for the clever, and the graveyard for the dumb.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.03.04 23:31:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Kharamete
I'll be honest - i find it highly amusing that when people whine about the population of lowsec they always request more miners and haulers, not more pvp'ers.
There is no freaking point for an industrialist to mine in lowsec. To fix that you would have to kill high sec AND 0.0, well at least the bit of 0.0 known as wormhole space. The adventurous industrialists sit down, look at the options, weigh the risks and rewards, and then always choose wormholespace before lowsec.
The reason is simple. Going to lowsec is suicide with near zero reward. Going to wormholespace is a manageable risk for higher rewards. You can still be killed in wh-space. Your situational awareness in wh-space is compromised without local. But, they key difference is, you can manage you risk there. You can't do so in lowsec.
The only fix you have to get more people into lowsec is to kill off wh-space, drastically nerf 0.0, and kill yields in high sec. Until that time, low sec will always be the option of last resort for the clever, and the graveyard for the dumb.
pretty much spot on
I would say nerf yield in high sec, nerf NPC loot drops annnnnnnd
move all ice to low/0.0
and/or add a new material that can only be found in low sec but is required in all production
and I wouldn't say the idea is to only move industrialists to low sec. The idea is that there should be incentive for all arrays of players to live there, be it miners, haulers (smugglers), explorers, or straight pvpers.
Low sec populace is low across the entire spectrum. This needs changing. _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.04 23:35:00 -
[40]
Originally by: XXSketchxx
Originally by: Lord Dralos actually you can buy covetors for around 17.5 mill add on lasers and rigs looking closer to 25 mill and still super easy to pop it still comes back to same thing i posted before risk vs isk. try reading what i wrote also i was on about warship costs vs mining ship costs before you go into your little stupidity mode of trying to flame. flamers are lame especially when they flame before they read imo.
okay we'll go back to your post
1. You assume Hulk is the only way to mine. This is wrong 2. You assume everyone uses T1 crap to fight. This is wrong 3. You are comparing PvP combat ships with industrial ships (PVE). Compare a ratting ship to a mining ship. Guess what? The end is going to be the same.
You assume that people should mine in low sec "because it is the ballsy thing to do" even if it pay less, you have to use mediocre ships to manage the risk and you will need to spend plenty of time hiding to avoid being killed.
Seem pretty stupid, don't you concur?
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.03.04 23:48:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Translation:
You should play the way I want you to play, not how you prefer
Ok, my work rate is 50 Ç/hour plus expenses.
If you want me to play for your amusement you pay me.
Not at all. Play however you want. This is a thread about bringing incentives to living and playing in low sec. Not forcing people to go there. Why should a particular area of EvE be a wasteland? I am an industrialist myself. This isn't about "getting moar targets." Its about making low sec a unique and viable part of the game, not just a dump you pass through. _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
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Kharamete
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Posted - 2010.03.05 00:58:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Kharamete on 05/03/2010 00:58:45
Originally by: XXSketchxx I would say nerf yield in high sec, nerf NPC loot drops annnnnnnd
move all ice to low/0.0
and/or add a new material that can only be found in low sec but is required in all production
Low sec is fundamentally broken. It won't be fixed by forcing defenseless miners to go there. You would have to nerf all other areas of Eve to get a higher influx of people; highsec, wh-space and 0.0. Industrialists will always chose the other areas before they even start thinking of going into lowsec.
What will fix it is to nerf pvp there, but no one's going to contemplate that. What will fix it is to extend concord into low sec, but that will pretty much be the end of the lawless zone in Eve. No one wants that.
Demanding a nerf to high-sec, 0.0 and wh-space is just asking for all eve players to conform to the present low sec populations playstyle, and it won't happen.
Lowsec broke a long time ago, and I see no fix for it really. *shrug* And I say that as a resident there on my combat toon.
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2010.03.05 03:16:00 -
[43]
Originally by: InUrJita CheckinUrPrice -- Make the non-Capital t2 mining vessels t1 for insurance purposes (reduce risk) ALTERNATIVELY rework them to be more "combat" focused (If pvp is less one-sided, miners will be less assiduous in avoiding it -- also, battlehulk victor!)
You have no idea how absolutely boned I would have been on 95% of my miner ganks if the miners told their drones to attack me instead of calling them back in and leaving their friend (the one i got a point on) to die. Almost every time I find some miners to gank, we are heavily outnumbered and I say on our vent "You know if they decide to fight us we are going to have some pretty damn embarrassing loss mails, right?"
Luckily for me, I know that my strength is in your fear of me, RAWRRRRGRAHHH!!! *blink* *blink* *blink*
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2010.03.05 05:08:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Venkul Mul Let's see if you get it: - veldspar (and only veldspar) re-spawn rate was buffed - that push tritanium price down
Maybe in your head. Check the market graphs before you post more misinformation.
Originally by: Venkul Mul - pushing the other minerals up help low sec - that is the mineral basket at work.
More like a delusional mind at work. Pushing mineral (costs) up would help low sec how? You are illogical, have your mind made up and consider ambiguous conclusions made in your head to be fact.
Originally by: Venkul Mul Got it?
LOL!
Originally by: Venkul Mul If you think that pushing tritanium availability up is a damage to low sec, you are really wrong and need some more notion in how EVE economy work.
Now you are putting words in my mouth. I never said it damaged low sec. I said giving people more minerals to mine in high sec is not going to push them to low sec.
Originally by: Venkul Mul Next time read the whole post and think about what I write before hitting reply.
Take your own advice.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.03.05 05:47:00 -
[45]
You don't want to introduce a system where stuff is created out of nothing by increasing mineral yields.
If mining is to become better in low-sec all that is required is to improve the spawn types by a whopping amount. When/if pirates get their patch and allegiances with NPC pirate organizations become possible (through standings), belt rats might even act as protectors of a miner
There are lots of ideas floating around as to how to improve low-sec so crawl around the various threads to see which way the winds blow.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.03.05 10:53:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Sig Sour
Originally by: Venkul Mul Let's see if you get it: - veldspar (and only veldspar) re-spawn rate was buffed - that push tritanium price down
Maybe in your head. Check the market graphs before you post more misinformation.
Evidently you know nothing of the EVE market and how self destructing ships for insurance work.
If CCP hadn't increased Veldspar spawn we would have tritanium at a way higher price.
Originally by: Sig Sour
Originally by: Venkul Mul - pushing the other minerals up help low sec - that is the mineral basket at work.
More like a delusional mind at work. Pushing mineral (costs) up would help low sec how? You are illogical, have your mind made up and consider ambiguous conclusions made in your head to be fact.
If the price of the other minerals is pushed up the low sec ores are worth a bit more. It is not enough but better than nothing.
Originally by: Sig Sour
Originally by: Venkul Mul Got it?
LOL!
Evidetly, not.
Originally by: Sig Sour
Originally by: Venkul Mul If you think that pushing tritanium availability up is a damage to low sec, you are really wrong and need some more notion in how EVE economy work.
Now you are putting words in my mouth. I never said it damaged low sec. I said giving people more minerals to mine in high sec is not going to push them to low sec.
So you want the removal of minerals in high sec?
And you want to push people where they don't want to go?
You see, removing/reducing minerals in high sec would not push people in low sec, it would push them in 0.0/WH space, but before that it would simply stop people that is using the insurance as a way to make isk (build ship, insure, self destruct, collect insurance, repeat).
So it would reduce mineral demand.
0.0 would still be a large mineral product centre, simply mining veldspar there and use the different compression systems to move it to high sec would become convenient.
And low sec will still be non interesting for mining for most people.
The net result that you would get is to make harder for new players to mine, but any organized player would move to 0.0 and skip low sec.
Originally by: Sig Sour
Originally by: Venkul Mul Next time read the whole post and think about what I write before hitting reply.
Take your own advice.
Evidently you don't have thought about what I wrote or you don't know how EVE economy work
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Lord Dralos
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Posted - 2010.03.05 18:57:00 -
[47]
to be honest id love to see a roving war fleet of cap ships from a few of the 0.0 empires to jump through low sec and kill everything in its path and block off strategic choke points in low sec for several weeks just to be annoying to the pvpers but alas i know thats not going to happen so........... pvpers should stop whining about the way miners are hiding in hi sec wanting ores removing or concord protection to be removed etc. its not gonna happen and its not gonna get us to come out to play in low sec i prefer wh space myself if i want the rarer ores you cant get in hi sec as for removing ice do you know that most peeps rely upon ice in high sec for pos's all over eve it would have a detrimental effect on everyone if they where only allowed to be mined in 0.0.
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Asheru
Caldari HeartVenom Inc. Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2010.03.05 19:26:00 -
[48]
Right now, low sec is kind of like a nude beach. Pirates are the lecherous old men wondering why sexy young girls never come to their beach, and miners are the sexy young girls that can sunbathe nude in their backyard, getting the same tan but without the creepiness and sexual assault. Their backyard being high sec, of course.
See, there is no reason to sunbathe nude in low sec if you can get the same tan in high sec.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2010.03.05 19:31:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Asheru Right now, low sec is kind of like a nude beach. Pirates are the lecherous old men wondering why sexy young girls never come to their beach, and miners are the sexy young girls that can sunbathe nude in their backyard, getting the same tan but without the creepiness and sexual assault. Their backyard being high sec, of course.
See, there is no reason to sunbathe nude in low sec if you can get the same tan in high sec.
I normally disapprove of making comparisons to real life.
However, this analogy is pure win.
+1 rep. _____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2010.03.05 21:30:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Venkul Mul Inappropriately long quoting.
I know how the economy works but because the economy is not the topic here I am not going to argue it here with you. If you want to continue a conversation about the economy, go start a new thread with that topic.
Giving people more things to do in high sec is not going to help move them to other areas of the game. That is the bottom line of what I said. Now go write another book on a response to this and don't forget to ad-lib what I said, that is the entertaining part for me.
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Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.05 21:49:00 -
[51]
I have mined in lowsec in a Retriever before Exhumers were around, I also now mine in ops in lowsec in a Hulk. I can tell you that, even with a defensive patrol, gankers will always go for the Hulks because they are easy to pop and present a big loss to the owners. You can't jump your whole gang out every time someone enters the system, it just isn't practical. You do it when known pirate players or those with a low sec rating enter and when reds come in. This means you may still get attacked by opportunists who don't even have a low sec rating.
We have quite a good organisation with a number of covops keeping tabs on gates and alerting us when reds and known/obvious gankers enter. Due to this, we have lost very few ships in mining ops. There is a downside to this, it costs big time to have all these players defending a small group of miners and we do it rarely because of this. We can get the majority of our low end minerals in highsec and ship them in, what little Zydrine we get from lowsec mining isn't really worth the cost of such a big op. It's really only done for lolz and a bit of ease instead of hauling large quantities of minerals two jumps through lowsec. Even mining Hemorphite doesn't anywhere near cover the cost of the op and we're putting out 8 or more hulks at a time.
Going back to the "carebear" issue, if it costs a corp that much to have a mining op going, a highsec miner isn't going to fund it because it would lead to a loss compared to highsec mining. He still has to pay the defenders as well as making a profit so it just can't be done. For the defenders, it's a long and very boring job just sitting and watching local and scanner, maybe taking out the odd NPC rat when they spawn so very few people want to do it anyway.
This comes back to ninja mining. It's very little advantage over highsec mining since you can't jetcan mine at all. Going back and forth takes time, even with aligning and WTZ now (I had to do it with instas back when I ninja mined in lowsec), it really needs a super size cargo hold to make it even close to being profitable. You can do it in a retriever or covetor if you don't mind warping to the station and coming back in a cruiser every time rats spawn because neither of the barges can tank the rats long enough to take them out with drones. That goes back to the Exhumer but now we're talking about 75% insurance payouts at best if you do lose it. If you're going to use an exhumer, it may as well be a hulk since it can mine 3 times as much and has a bigger cargo capacity.
CCP had a nice idea with adding 2warp stab protection to the Skiff but with only 1 mining turret, it's just outright unprofitable to mine with it. It still means a lot of time wasted warping back and forth to the station. If they had added a 25K cargo hold to it, that would have made it roughly equal to a retriever with T1 strip mining lasers in highsec mining veld into a can, even a covetor with T1 lasers in highsec would still be more profitable. 2 turrets and a 25K cargo hold would make it more viable in lowsec but still less profitable than a hulk in highsec.
You can check my math if you like, I did do the research based on my own skills. I've played for 6 years and I fly a T2 fitted Hulk with T2 mining crystals and have a perfect refine rate in NPC stations for every ore up to and including Hemorphite. Also most of my navigation skills are level 5 since I can fly, every Amarr T2 ship except Black ops and I also fly Carriers and Dreads. Since I am in a lowsec corps, I often PVP as well, this carebear has a set of teeth too
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2010.03.05 22:21:00 -
[52]
Thanks for posting Dante, it is good to get some experienced opinions rather than just people guessing and estimating. All too often people toss anyone capable of industry in with the care bear crowd. How often did/co you guys look for grav sites?
In my experience it was a very good way to make isk without having to get a major organization going. Plus if you plop a pos down and leave all your barges out where they can be scanned, people get really used to seeing them on d-scan and don't bother looking for them.
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Sobon
Caldari Phantom Squad
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Posted - 2010.03.05 22:48:00 -
[53]
A better scaling ore system would benefit both lowsec and 0.0 mining, making high/low/null-variants of each ore, with exponential scaling on the yeilds would be a fairly quick way to marginalize highsec mining entirely. If <trit-heavy> ore mined from null or low sec produced several times (If not orders of magnitude) the rate of the comparable highsec ore, people would be far more willing to take the risk, and put the efforts into running miners in risky areas. |
Dantes Revenge
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.03.05 22:56:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Sig Sour Thanks for posting Dante, it is good to get some experienced opinions rather than just people guessing and estimating. All too often people toss anyone capable of industry in with the care bear crowd. How often did/co you guys look for grav sites?
It isn't really a big thing for us. We have other red corps who are larger than us scanning for them frequently, if we did find one, chances are we wouldn't be alone for long. Also, we get involved in wardecs quite a lot so there are few times when it's safe to go on expeditions and leave the POS undefended for any time.
Quote: In my experience it was a very good way to make isk without having to get a major organization going. Plus if you plop a pos down and leave all your barges out where they can be scanned, people get really used to seeing them on d-scan and don't bother looking for them.
The downside of this is that when your POS gets attacked and it can happen quite frequently in lowsec depending on where you are, you chance losing your entire mining fleet as well. Our corp isn't large enough to take that sort of loss too often so we keep ours docked up in the local station, along with most of our capital defense and industrial fleet. Most of our mining ops work out of the local station instead of the POS, it's only 1 warp away from the POS with a hauler to put minerals in the oven to build what we need. Our idea is that they may take down our POS eventually but they won't get much out of it except a little bit of inconvenience to us for a short time until we get a replacement up and running.
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2010.03.05 23:27:00 -
[55]
You could just dock them up if gets reinforced. Should have enough stront in there to take care of that kind of thing.
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Ephemeron
Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates
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Posted - 2010.03.05 23:41:00 -
[56]
I remember back in 2004-2005, there was a real incentive to go mine in low sec. Back then, as a noob, I joined corps that did that. It was fun, as much fun as mining can be.
I was lucky to have played EVE back then, cause it's not just the same anymore. Despite all the expansions and bug fixing, the core theme of this game has been altered for the worse
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Amberlyn Stardreamer
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Posted - 2010.03.06 01:51:00 -
[57]
http://cerlestes.de/eve/oretable/#site:ore
Scordite and plagioclase are currently more valuable than ANY low-sec ore and some null-sec ores.
The only way you'll be seeing miners in low-sec would be if ore values changed so dramatically that a miner could be certain that, after factoring in ship losses, clone costs, implant losses, and the cost of paying PVPer's to act as guards, he/she would make a significantly greater profit than he/she would by spending the same time mining in high-sec.
Mining is an economic activity. Lawless chaos ALWAYS destroys economic activities. Eve's low-sec is -- intentionally and by design -- a region of lawless chaos. People should stop being surprised by this.
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Amberlyn Stardreamer
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Posted - 2010.03.06 01:58:00 -
[58]
Originally by: XXSketchxx ...
covetors cost like...10 mil? and are fully insurable
you dont have to use a hulk
...
You actually think that mining smaller quantities of lower-value ore at greater risk of losing ships, clones, implants, etc. is a solution to making more isk?
ROFLOL!
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Amberlyn Stardreamer
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Posted - 2010.03.06 02:13:00 -
[59]
Originally by: XXSketchxx ... Why should a particular area of EvE be a wasteland? I am an industrialist myself. ...
Because player pirates have decided to make it a wasteland by killing everything that passes through.
No economy can function in the absence of law and order.
High sec has government in control to provide a reasonable degree of security so that inherently helpless characters can do productive work -- on their own schedule with a considerable degree of individual freedom.
Null-sec has a semi-feudal system in control where alliances provide a degree of security so that inherently helpless characters can do productive work -- though they are dependent on others' schedules and their freedom is restricted by the need to assemble a group operation with adequate security.
Low-sec has neither. For an inherently helpless character its nothing but a place of death and loss -- because player pirates have chosen to make it that way.
Which is more likely to happen?
A. A complete revamp of Eve's economy that boosts low-sec at the expense of all other sectors of space? OR,
B. Player pirates universally swear to never, ever, ever again shoot a mining ship or hauler and to instantly gang up on to destroy any pirate who breaks that compact?
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Ephemeron
Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates
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Posted - 2010.03.06 02:40:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Amberlyn Stardreamer Mining is an economic activity. Lawless chaos ALWAYS destroys economic activities. Eve's low-sec is -- intentionally and by design -- a region of lawless chaos. People should stop being surprised by this.
That argument is not valid in light of evidence that 0.0 space economic activities are quite successful. 0.0 profitability in fact competes quite well with high sec empire.
0.0 mining is unprofitable simply because all the ores in low sec are worth less (or very little over) Veldspar which is available in high sec.
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