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RavenPaine
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Posted - 2010.03.11 00:17:00 -
[1]
So I'm wanting to train a Pirate BS .
I'm looking at them and I discover :
Vindicator has 8 turret slots and gets a 37.5% bonus to damage. 5 Heavy drones.
Nightmare gets 4 turrets with 100% bonus , and additional Caldari BS damage bonus. 3 Heavy drones
Bhaalgorn gets 4 turrets with 100% bonus. Some sick energy neuts , and 3 Heavy drones.
Machariel gets 7 turrets with 25% Rof bonus and additional (25%) Minnie BS Damage bonus.
Rattlesnake gets 4 launcher hardpoints with no damage bonus , and 5 Heavy drones . It gets a drone bonus....but it must surely be shy of at least 3 launchers to be even close to equal .
CCP whats up ? Anybody else , am I missing something ?
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Liang Nuren
The Aduro Protocol
Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.11 00:28:00 -
[2]
What you're missing is an imagination. The Rattlesnake may be a bit (but not much) damage anemic, but I think we can all agree it'd be a bit overpowered to deal 1000 DPS and passively tank 3000.
-Liang
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Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
RavenPaine
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Posted - 2010.03.11 01:02:00 -
[3]
Nightmare has a caldari bonus , but its still an Amarr gunship , lasers at that.
Rattle is the only missile ship . And part of my complaint is that a pure Caldari pilot is probly going to pick an Amarr ship to pvp in.
As for range .... No tackle and Heavies flying in from 55 KM is not a "plus" imo.
The tank is cool (I havent fitted one yet) and all the bottom slots open for damage mods is also cool.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.03.11 01:44:00 -
[4]
... To be honest I'm a bit more annoyed at the fact both Caldari pirate frigates (Succubus and Worm) are seriously lacking right now.
_________________________________
 Originally by: Dodgy Past
Can't see the Caldari approving of free love though.
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Liang Nuren
The Aduro Protocol
Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.11 01:48:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 11/03/2010 01:50:33
Two comments:
- Sentries. Ever heard of them?
- Show me a faction BS that tackles at 55km.
-Liang
Ed: Also, I echo the above poster. I am very underwhelmed by the Worm, Succubus, and Hawk. But to say that "another" Caldari ripoff is blatantly misinformed. You act like it's some kind of consistent thing or that CCP has something against Caldari 
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Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
RavenPaine
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Posted - 2010.03.11 02:21:00 -
[6]
Ive heard of sentry's , but I've never used them . You know why ? Because Caldari doesnt have a large drone BS either. All other races do.
And yeah, Battleships dont tackle at 55 , I guess you missed my point on that 1.
Domi is not a Pirate ship . I am comparing Pirate ships only . And specificly looking at DPS .
Honestly would you buy the Rattle over the Nightmare ? Would you fight a Mare and expect to win ?
As for CCP.. they ARE the developer arent they ?
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Liang Nuren
The Aduro Protocol
Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.11 02:35:00 -
[7]
Originally by: RavenPaine
Ive heard of sentry's , but I've never used them . You know why ?
Because you fail. If you're interested in the Rattlesnake, you have access to the Domi.
Quote:
And yeah, Battleships dont tackle at 55 , I guess you missed my point on that 1.
Maybe because you didn't have one?
Quote:
And specificly looking at DPS .
Yes, because all ships are measured purely on their DPS.
Quote:
Honestly would you buy the Rattle over the Nightmare ? Would you fight a Mare and expect to win ?
Yes, I would buy a Rattlesnake. And in a 1v1, I would expect the Nightmare to have NO CHANCE IN HELL of winning. Zero chance. Literally. Couldn't be done, not even with the officer implants.
Quote:
As for CCP.. they ARE the developer arent they ?
Yes, and you're crazy if you think they're somehow "gimping" Caldari in PVP.
-Liang
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Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
RavenPaine
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Posted - 2010.03.11 03:27:00 -
[8]
I dont have access to the Domi , I have to train The BS skill for the Rattle. You fail tbh , by not knowing what the hell your talking about.
My point was : Missile advantage is always range. Being up close doesnt help you at all , but it helps gunships a lot.
Do you ever PvP with Caldari as your DPS platform ? I kinda dont think you do , cause if you did , you'd know what I'm talking about. Which eqates to: you dont know what your talking about.
If your just here to be a smart ass , then you win. I surrender
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Tagami Wasp
Caldari
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.03.11 04:17:00 -
[9]
Ehm, Rattler kills Mare in it's sleep. 2x heavy neuts, drones and Torps will chew through Mare's shiled in no time.
[Rattlesnake, New Setup 1]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Power Diagnostic System II
Warp Disruptor II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Large Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Large Core Defence Field Extender I
Ogre II x5
Garde II x5
1000 dps, 190K EHP. Good luck to the Nightmare going against this one.
------------
+15% to railguns' dmg modifier
-reduce Spike optimal bonus to 70%
+10% to Caldari railboats PG |
Liang Nuren
The Aduro Protocol
Talon Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.11 04:30:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 11/03/2010 04:33:23
Originally by: RavenPaine
I dont have access to the Domi , I have to train The BS skill for the Rattle. You fail tbh , by not knowing what the hell your talking about.
How do you plan to fly a Rattlesnake without Gallente BS and good drone skills? Or maybe you missed that monster drone bay and bandwidth?
Quote:
My point was : Missile advantage is always range. Being up close doesnt help you at all , but it helps gunships a lot.
As a rule, you don't want to be any closer than optimal + a little bit if there's any notable transversal at all. Not that I expect you to know that you start losing DPS by going closer in a gunship.
Quote:
Do you ever PvP with Caldari as your DPS platform ? I kinda dont think you do , cause if you did , you'd know what I'm talking about. Which eqates to: you dont know what your talking about.
Yes, as a matter of fact. I've gotten quite a number of (solo!) kills as a Caldari, and I've been to -10 and back flying nothing but Caldari missile ships several times. My favorite (Caldari missile only) ships are the Raven, Drake, Crow, and Manticore.
I previously liked the Failcan (who didn't?) and Scorpion. I strongly dislike their idea of a fleet scorp - optimal is so imporant to fleet jamming.  I'd really rather them have kept the brawler scorp idea. 
But of course, you can continue to feel like CCP hates Caldari, but I assure you its just you.
-Liang
Ed: And if you're curious, MY Raven with MY skills does 1400 DPS at 30km. Sure is such low DPS!
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Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire |
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.03.11 05:31:00 -
[11]
if you want a missile brawler going to have to go with a cnr or a sni. two pretty good ships for such a role.
and I do wish the Rattlesnake had some more dps but the way it tanks it would be rather op.
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Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.11 06:13:00 -
[12]
Originally by: RavenPaine
Rattlesnake gets 4 launcher hardpoints with no damage bonus and a 50% damage bonus to drones.
Fixed.
Quote:
CCP whats up ? Anybody else , am I missing something ?
Yes. The huge damage bonus the Rattler gets.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Cambarus
The Compass Reloaded
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Posted - 2010.03.11 06:19:00 -
[13]
The rattlesnake is awesome, not so much in pve but in pve...
We had a wartarget who flew one a while back, he's sitting outside a station, so the other corp that they had decked engages, 4 people shooting him (2 were in BSs, don't remember the other 2) and he just sits there tanking it like it's nothing, they almost lose one of their guys so they disengage. Then my corp (only 3 members but decent pvpers) undock with 2 maelstroms and an abaddon, so probably about 25-2600 DPS total, then the other 4 who had been shooting him come back, (tbh they were probably sh*tfit but it's still extra dps). Only then do we start to break his tank, just very slowly.....
Then His buddy undocks in a vulture, and he proceeds to tank 7 people shooting at him. He also puts out about 800DPS with that ship (a guesstimate based on how long I could tank him)
THAT is why the rattler is awesome.
That being said, if you want an upgrade to the raven in terms of missiles, just get a CNR, I mean christ it's already the best faction BS out there, it gets a freaking extra gun over the t1 version, and a gankfit cnr does more damage than a gankfit vindi... |
Rip Striker
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Posted - 2010.03.11 06:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: RavenPaine
So I'm wanting to train a Pirate BS .
I'm looking at them and I discover :
Vindicator has 8 turret slots and gets a 37.5% bonus to damage. 5 Heavy drones.
Nightmare gets 4 turrets with 100% bonus , and additional Caldari BS damage bonus. 3 Heavy drones
Bhaalgorn gets 4 turrets with 100% bonus. Some sick energy neuts , and 3 Heavy drones.
Machariel gets 7 turrets with 25% Rof bonus and additional (25%) Minnie BS Damage bonus.
Rattlesnake gets 4 launcher hardpoints with no damage bonus , and 5 Heavy drones . It gets a drone bonus....but it must surely be shy of at least 3 launchers to be even close to equal .
CCP whats up ? Anybody else , am I missing something ?
Yes, this game lacks missile based pirate faction ships.
Yes, CCP has neglected to account for all the players with +10M skill points in missiles.
Yes, once again Caldari got shafted!
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NoNah
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Posted - 2010.03.11 06:28:00 -
[15]
Liang is so wrong. Again.
It's not just OP, it's the bulk of caldari that thinks they're mistreated. That caldari sucks for pvp. And that their failures are because of their faction, not their own lack of competense.
I would've been able to accept op saying there's no traditional caldari bs, spewing missiles and shieldtanking. But... then again no race short of minmata... angel.. gets a ship that does exactly what the rest of their ships does. Guess that just might be the point of having pirate faction ships being mixed between two empire factions.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 135602
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.03.11 07:39:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Naomi Knight on 11/03/2010 07:39:08
RavenPaine is so true
"caldari" pirate ships are the worst pirate ships,there is not even a pure missile pirate ships,why? because ccp is caldari hater thats why.
Just look at pirate frigs:
cruor:amarr/matar energy turrets
succubus: amarr/caldari energy turrets
worm:caldari/gallente drones
daredevil:matar/gallente hybrids
dramiel: matar/gallente projectiles
sum that up:
primary races
2 amarr
0 caldari
2 gallente
1 matar
Oh and somehow the half caldari pirate frigs are the worst ones and matar being the op and good ones.
It is clr that ccp is anti-caldari. Add that worst dread/carrier is caldari,they will possibly change matar MS bonuses so then caldari MS will be the worst there too. Ceptors AFs,hacs worst worst worst are caldari.
The only good caldari ships are the drake,rook thats all.Others just medicore at best.
Maybe it soundy whiney but still it is the truth :P
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Pandares
Gallente
hindsight is 20-20
Carebears 'R Us
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Posted - 2010.03.11 08:12:00 -
[17]
Originally by: NoNah
Liang is so wrong. Again.
nah, Liang gets a bit pedantic at times, but is rarely wrong.
Originally by: NoNah
It's not just OP, it's the bulk of caldari that thinks they're mistreated. That caldari sucks for pvp. And that their failures are because of their faction, not their own lack of competense.
Lol you talked to the bulk of Caldari players? respect...
Caldari has some of the best pvp ships in the game, the Drake, Rokh, Raven, as well as access to the only ewar battleship, the Scorpion. You get the best ewar, with ECM. You get the meassure of all T3 ships, the Tengu. The crow is still a good inty, the Onyx is either the best heavy dictors, or second best, depending who you ask. The flycatcher is cheap, the best quality an interdictor can have.
On top of all of that, almost nothing can touch the Caldari dominance in PVE ships. Ever heard people talk about how awesome their Fleet Tempest or Navy Megathron's and Domi's are? It's cuz they're not. Not in the way the Navy Raven kicks butt.
_______________________________________________
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.03.11 08:23:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Pandares
Originally by: NoNah
Liang is so wrong. Again.
nah, Liang gets a bit pedantic at times, but is rarely wrong.
Originally by: NoNah
It's not just OP, it's the bulk of caldari that thinks they're mistreated. That caldari sucks for pvp. And that their failures are because of their faction, not their own lack of competense.
Lol you talked to the bulk of Caldari players? respect...
Caldari has some of the best pvp ships in the game, the Drake, Rokh, Raven, as well as access to the only ewar battleship, the Scorpion. You get the best ewar, with ECM. You get the meassure of all T3 ships, the Tengu. The crow is still a good inty, the Onyx is either the best heavy dictors, or second best, depending who you ask. The flycatcher is cheap, the best quality an interdictor can have.
On top of all of that, almost nothing can touch the Caldari dominance in PVE ships. Ever heard people talk about how awesome their Fleet Tempest or Navy Megathron's and Domi's are? It's cuz they're not. Not in the way the Navy Raven kicks butt.
It is clr that you have no clue , crow is still a good ceptor? WHAAAAT??
sure only caldari has an ewar bs that doesnt make it good
rokh good pvp ship??? oh no
raven?? only for dps against other battleships ,but hey every other races has a bs for that thing and can do nearly as good as the raven or just better
tengu is for pve , for pvp use the drake
caldari dominance in PVE???? have you skipped the last 1-2 years of eve or what? have you heard of vargur/nightmare at all?
Navy raven is so old school btw.
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Jacob Stov
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Posted - 2010.03.11 08:24:00 -
[19]
Are you guys insane ?
For faction + missiles navy Scorp and navy Raven are great and sufficient. With the new Rattler there is finally a shield tanked drone boat.
What I miss in Caldari lineup would be shield tanked hybrid boats with a fat damage bonus.
Pls give Caldari-Minmatar crossbreed: blasters, speed, shieldtank.
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Pandares
Gallente
hindsight is 20-20
Carebears 'R Us
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Posted - 2010.03.11 08:28:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
have you skipped the last 1-2 years of eve or what? have you heard of vargur/nightmare at all?
Surely you're not suggesting the Vargur has been any kind of useful for 1-2 years already?
People get used to stuff so quickly. Try 3 months. And the Golem is STILL better.
And the Nightmare? It requires Caldari BS to fly, halfwit.
_______________________________________________
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Madmi CEO
Mad Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.03.11 08:30:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
tengu is for pve , for pvp use the drake
So you say a Drake will beat a Tengu in PvP? Once we agree that it will not, why do you then consider Tengu a PvE ship?
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.03.11 08:39:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Madmi CEO
Originally by: Naomi Knight
tengu is for pve , for pvp use the drake
So you say a Drake will beat a Tengu in PvP? Once we agree that it will not, why do you then consider Tengu a PvE ship?
Drake 30m tengu 300m and it is just a little better than the drake. If you have the money you can use the tengu just fine. But for big fleets the extra doesnt worth the isk --> so drake.
Therefor for me tengu is for pve ,and drake is for pvp.
Pandares: Golem better? maybe I have yet to test a golem ,but everybody who uses vargur say it is awesome.
Btw you can use the paladin for amarr missions which requer em/thermal dmg/resist,and it will be much better than a golem there.
Possibly the same with vargur against matar npc-s.
Still I cannot prove that vargur is better than the golem , somebody who used both could write something about it.
But I have a feeling that vargur is just better,so where is the caldari dominance in pve you said? :)
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Madmi CEO
Mad Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.03.11 08:46:00 -
[23]
Drake 30m? If you're talking signature radius, please show me your epic fit! My Drake is looking like an oversized battleship when measured by the Signature.
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NoNah
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Posted - 2010.03.11 08:47:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Pandares
Originally by: NoNah
Liang is so wrong. Again.
nah, Liang gets a bit pedantic at times, but is rarely wrong.
Originally by: NoNah
It's not just OP, it's the bulk of caldari that thinks they're mistreated. That caldari sucks for pvp. And that their failures are because of their faction, not their own lack of competense.
Lol you talked to the bulk of Caldari players? respect...
Caldari has some of the best pvp ships in the game, the Drake, Rokh, Raven, as well as access to the only ewar battleship, the Scorpion. You get the best ewar, with ECM. You get the meassure of all T3 ships, the Tengu. The crow is still a good inty, the Onyx is either the best heavy dictors, or second best, depending who you ask. The flycatcher is cheap, the best quality an interdictor can have.
On top of all of that, almost nothing can touch the Caldari dominance in PVE ships. Ever heard people talk about how awesome their Fleet Tempest or Navy Megathron's and Domi's are? It's cuz they're not. Not in the way the Navy Raven kicks butt.
Something tells me you're somewhat new, 09? '10?(To the forums that is, the age of your character is rather irrelevant). Liang has been wrong ever since she first showed up here. And she's ugly to. Always has been.
As for talking to the bulk of caldari... That was a joke, right?
I've never once stated that caldari ships are subpar. I've stated that the majority of caldari players think they are, on incorrect basis.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 271823
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Pandares
Gallente
hindsight is 20-20
Carebears 'R Us
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Posted - 2010.03.11 08:48:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Possibly the same with vargur against matar npc-s.
Still I cannot prove that vargur is better than the golem , somebody who used both could write something about it.
But I have a feeling that vargur is just better,so where is the caldari dominance in pve you said? :)
Actually Liang will be able to provide those numbers, if he feels like it.
_______________________________________________
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Jacob Holland
Gallente
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
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Posted - 2010.03.11 08:49:00 -
[26]
Originally by: RavenPaine
I dont have access to the Domi , I have to train The BS skill for the Rattle. You fail tbh , by not knowing what the hell your talking about.
My point was : Missile advantage is always range. Being up close doesnt help you at all , but it helps gunships a lot.
Do you ever PvP with Caldari as your DPS platform ? I kinda dont think you do , cause if you did , you'd know what I'm talking about. Which eqates to: you dont know what your talking about.
If your just here to be a smart ass , then you win. I surrender
You've complained about the lack of a Caldari, large drone bay BS... and then complain that the Rattlesnake is a drone boat?
If you want a missile based DPS boat then it's been around for a while in the form of the Raven Navy Issue, 7 torps with a 37.5% damage bonus and 3 Heavy Drones (or sentries).
Not only does it put out huge paper DPS at very long ranges (for a short range weapon) but it also costs significantly less than the Pirate BS.
The only way to build a ship which is more "caldari", more missiley and higher DPS than the CNR is either to give it a double damage bonus (two damage bonuses and a range bonus? perhaps a little too much?) or yet another launcher... at which point you get the State Issue...
And when you mix in Gallente bonuses to a Caldari missile boat, what bonus should be applied? The primary Gallente bonuses are Hybrid Turret damage, Hybrid Turret Tracking or the replacement of the primary weapon system with a large drone bay and drone bonus... None of them very missiley.
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Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Oirienicsa
Gallente
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2010.03.11 08:51:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Oirienicsa on 11/03/2010 08:52:50
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.03.11 08:52:00 -
[28]
I generally find it accurate to assume the opposite of everything Naomi posts about Caldari.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.03.11 08:53:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Madmi CEO
Drake 30m? If you're talking signature radius, please show me your epic fit! My Drake is looking like an oversized battleship when measured by the Signature.
Ive only wroted the hull prices from memory here is the curret jita prices:
drake 26m
tengu 200m hull+210m hybrid ship modules for my tengu,around 400m
so it looks even less worthy
the fit is nearly the same if you want to use both of them in the same way
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Madmi CEO
Mad Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2010.03.11 08:53:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Madmi CEO on 11/03/2010 08:53:58
Originally by: Oirienicsa
You know, not everyone considers PvP on the terms of who can bring the bigger blob some people actually use skill to PvP rather than numbers...
Skill in EVE is also measured by the work you do in EFT and on paper before actually undocking. Not just clicking buttons in space. That's one of the main reasons I love EVE.
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Originally by: Madmi CEO
Drake 30m? If you're talking signature radius, please show me your epic fit! My Drake is looking like an oversized battleship when measured by the Signature.
Ive only wroted the hull prices from memory here is the curret jita prices:
drake 26m
tengu 200m hull+210m hybrid ship modules for my tengu,around 400m
so it looks even less worthy
the fit is nearly the same if you want to use both of them in the same way
Yeah, had a brainfart - figured out you meant money afterwards. We can easily agree that you get more bang for your buck with a Drake.
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