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[IDEAS]Gal Overhaul (Myrm, Deimos, Hype, Brutix, Mega )

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chavala Gallente Evil Doers	Posted - 2010.03.18 05:47:00 - [1] Looking at these Gallente Ships and thought i'd throw out some general changes to make them more effective and flyable after recent patches ect. <Myrmidon> Suggestions: Increase Drone Bandwidth to 100 Mbit/sec. Reason: I propose this is because as a BC sized drone boat, the Myrmidon does not distinguish itself over the Vexor. Sure it has tank and un-bonused guns, but giving it a cruiser sized Mbit/sec is wrong. I remember why it was originally nerfed from 125 Mbit/sec... but doesn't 100 Mbit/sec make for a happy medium between Cruiser (75 Mbit/sec) and BS (125Mbit/sec) ? <Deimos> Sugguestions: Remove 6th Hi slot, Add 4th mid slot, increase powergrid, change falloff bonus to armor HP bonus. Reason: Deimos is probably one of the most ***ed about ships in the game. Its role has always better been served by other (much cheaper ships) and the other HACs outclass it completely. In order to make the situation it is designed for more survivable, I suggest giving it a fourth mid to use for a cap booster or additional web, while removing the Utility high, adding more grid to help fitting for blasters, and adding an armor HP bonus to help it survive more. I will prob get flamed for suggesting a Gallente ship get a armor hp bonus but when you look at how long the deimios has to MWD to get into its effetive range...it makes more sense. <Hyperion*> Suggestions:* Add a low power slot to give it 7 lows total. Reason: The Hyperion by far is one of the most disgusting T3 BS available to pilots. Working with 6 low slots for an active armor tank is horrendous and running anything short of a trip rep tank leaves this BS as a ship most Gallente pilots would rather not invest in, or fly. Giving the Hyperion a 7th Low would allow it to fit an active tank which could provide a valid polar opposite to armor tankers that the Abaddon provides in passive tanking. It could also allow pilots to fit a damage mod with a six slot tank ect. <Brutix> Suggestions: Add a low power slot to give it 6 lows total, increase grid slightly. Reason: Same logic as the hyperion here. Every day i see a shield brutix,I die a little more on the inside. The EVE community's reaction to the Hyp and Brutix lacking low slots has been in many cases to ignore the tanking bonus completely and opt for shield tanks or buffers. If this isn't an indicator of a broken bonus i don't know what else is. would allow for a turret based BC mini hyperion with a decent tank and damage. <Megathron> Suggestions: Remove 7.5% tracking bonus, and replace with an Armor HP bonus and Possibly remove the 7th low. Reason: Same logic as the deimos here. Although many will argue the megathron is fine as is, I feel its tracking bonus comes from lala land. Adding an armor HP bonus will solidify its role as a Hp buffed blaster boat which uses its buffer to compensate for having to fight in blaster range, increasing survivability while allowing pilots to concentrate on overwhelming enemy tanks with blasters. The maybe on the 7th low would be a balancing MAYBE, incase having an hp bonus with 7 lows would be overpowered. Once again, just throwing some ideas out there. Feel free to flame, suggestion, counter ect. PS: I know some of these ideas have been suggested in the past. PSS: Incease Blaster tracking please!!!! =] [url=http://kb.un-natural.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=46891] [/url]
London Gallente Dark-Rising IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.18 06:25:00 - [2] Totally, don't forget about the Eos and Astarte too. Although the Astarte might simply benefit from a Hybrid boost. It's about time for this to happen CCP, come on... throw us a bone here.
Toma Pulii Gallente Sticky Moments	Posted - 2010.03.18 06:29:00 - [3] Nice suggestions man , i mean atm i really see no reason to fly a myrm in pvp (well maybe just maybe for rr bc roam) , the deimos actualy has a very well established role ... to die horribly in gangs. Anyway the Megathron is ok nothing special but it is ok , but the hyperion seems just worthless in big fleets you just use mega , and considering hypes rep bonus should be awesome in solo and small gangs but i believe that any ship that is better fitted by ignoring bonuses is gimped ( the reason we see so many myrm's hypes and brutix with shield tank)
Mirke	Posted - 2010.03.18 06:31:00 - [4] Originally by: chavala <Megathron> Suggestions: Remove 7.5% tracking bonus snip I feel its tracking bonus comes from lala land. Originally by: chavala PSS: Incease Blaster tracking please!!!! =] What?
Liang Nuren The Aduro Protocol Talon Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.18 06:32:00 - [5] Originally by: chavala <Myrmidon> 125m^3 is not a "battleship" drone bandwidth. The Myrm wasn't the best BC back when it had 125m^3 drone bay, and it wouldn't be the best if it had it back. Quote: <Deimos>change falloff bonus to armor HP bonus. I don't really like this, because it limits the one thing that the Deimos can do better than the Brutix. It might be reasonable to trade the MWD bonus for a armor HP bonus though. Quote: <Hyperion> You can't just go around adding slots. I'd rather trade the rep bonus for a ROF bonus, or make the active tank bonuses apply to RR, or just flat out make active tank bonuses stronger. Quote: <Brutix> Again, you can't just go adding slots. Again, trade the rep bonus for something useful - because as you said the BONUS is broken. Quote: <Megathron[/b]> Yes, removing the 7th low is awesome because the Mega really needs a nerf. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
sdfghsgjskj	Posted - 2010.03.18 06:40:00 - [6] I don't know about the last suggestion on the Megathron. Gallenteans don't really have a long range ship, which is espiecially needed for fleet combat. That tracking speed, I think, is a must. I do agree with a lot of what you said though, I'm quite tired of most t1 gallente ships being outclassed by almost every race.
chavala Gallente Evil Doers	Posted - 2010.03.18 06:44:00 - [7] Thanks for the suggestions Liang. So the Myrm bandwidth increase is something you agree needs to happen. I can understand your point with the slot changes. Maybe make the brutix and hyperion dual damage bonus ships for full blaster gankage? The mega slot thing was only IF the armor HP bonus was added and found to be overpowered with 7 lows. Once again, only ideas off the top of my head. Also in reference to the Command ships being broken... yes they are, problem is, the CS class in general is broken, so i suggested more commonly flown or pilotable ships. Also, any ideas on the Oneiros's useless tracking link bonus? [url=http://kb.un-natural.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=46891] [/url]
Artemis Rose Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE	Posted - 2010.03.18 07:00:00 - [8] Edited by: Artemis Rose on 18/03/2010 07:00:35 :: Myrm :: Sure.. I'm all for needless firepower boosts on one of my favorite ships, though it doesn't really need it. :: Deimos :: I remember there was a devblog that would balance the Deimos and give it 4 mids. I liked it, a bunch of people went "OMFG RAGE!!" and it never happened Honestly, you can't really fix the Deimos, because the idea of a short range HACs will always be inferior to insurable T1 ships. And, kindly GTFO for suggesting to remove the Mega's tracking bonus *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats
chavala Gallente Evil Doers	Posted - 2010.03.18 07:15:00 - [9] haha sorry for suggesting that. I was thinking of maybe giving the mega more armor thru an HP buff and assumed that blasters would get a tracking buff anyway (which people have suggested). OK so mega doesnt really need to be changed, maybe some more cpu, but thats just being greedy =] Yeah i remember when they put that deimos fix on SISI for people to try, i liked it alot but i guess someone got cold feet and pulled it. I feel the myrm could atleast use the 50-70 odd dps that having 4 heavy drones would add over a 2-2-1 Hvy Med Light. Right now, say u wanna take on a drake, the dps ure myrm puts out can easily take years or never break the passive on that while they can just wear you out of cap boosters. Also drone dps is more of a steady wear and tear down the opponent thing, and when dealing with high damage fast siuations, the cane and drake and harby put more dps on target faster. Just sayin a little extra dps would be nice =] Brutix suggestions anyone? or is everyone totally cool with ignoring the rep bonus and going shield gank? [url=http://kb.un-natural.com/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=46891] [/url]
The Djego Minmatar Hellequin Inc. Mean Coalition	Posted - 2010.03.18 07:59:00 - [10] Edited by: The Djego on 18/03/2010 08:03:16 Originally by: Artemis Rose :: Deimos :: I remember there was a devblog that would balance the Deimos and give it 4 mids. I liked it, a bunch of people went "OMFG RAGE!!" and it never happened They wanted to take the med from the low slots and add a armor repair bonus to compensate for the missing low(instead of the MWD cap bonus) without more grid to make it another Brutix that fits electrons if you want to mount a tank. Originally by: chavala Brutix suggestions anyone? 6 high / 5 meds / 5 lows 10% damage to medium hybrid turret damage per battlecruiser skill level Leave fitting as it is, reduce base lock range to 34km, reduce signature by 15% and make it 5% faster. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.

MoeJoe Green Gallente Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2010.03.18 08:26:00 - [11] How about giving the brutix a tracking bonus like the mega? And, in my opinion the hyperion and the brutix should get another low slot in cost of a medium. Maybe add that remote repair bonus aswell, not THAT useful, but useful atleast.
Flitz Farseeker Interstellar Stormfront	Posted - 2010.03.18 08:46:00 - [12] First, leave the Mega alone. The problem with close range Gall ships is that they are slooowwwww. So you either land on top of your opponent or not at all. Want to give them a bonus that helps, then give them something like faster acceleration when running a MWD or higher MWD speed. Changing the Rep bonus to an armor HP amount only exacerbates the gulf between passive and active armor tanking. Gall are supposed to be the repper kings. I don't have a good solution here beyond making armor repping less cap intensive. Changing rep amount or cylcle time would only make Gall ships even more OP in PVE. -SIG-
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.03.18 10:01:00 - [13] Straight HP bonuses are the lamest there is. Feeds directly into the broken Moar!-buffer paradigm and forces a very limited number of fittings onto the ship. Originally by: Liang Nuren 125m^3 is not a "battleship" drone bandwidth. The Myrm wasn't the best BC back when it had 125m^3 drone bay, and it wouldn't be the best if it had it back. Care to mention what BC is able to compete with 400+dps, full rack of neuts/nos and free mid(s) for eWar? 125m3 is just as broken now as it was then. Even 100m3 is questionable considering the staying power afforded by the repair bonus. By limiting bandwidth CCP made it so that it needs guns to take it that last bit if damage is intention .. with full bandwidth not a single gun would ever be fitted on them. Better to cook up proper drone rigs so the droneboats has a way to augment them to make "real" primary weapon systems. Originally by: Liang Nuren You can't just go around adding slots. I'd rather trade the rep bonus for a ROF bonus, or make the active tank bonuses apply to RR, or just flat out make active tank bonuses stronger. There have been several suggestions, both good and bad, made in F&I and Assembly to that effect. The buffer paradigm is a hard one to solve due to gang-sizes continually increasing though. Biggest hurdle I have seen is making local tank viable in small-gang scenarios without making them unbreakable when solo. Originally by: MoeJoe Green How about giving the brutix a tracking bonus like the mega? Good idea but entirely dependent on what happens to hybrids, if base tracking is increased then a bonus might not be needed. Never did figure out why ACs (except highest tiers) track better even when they have the fall-off advantage. The blaster boats needs to be faster first (straight line travel mainly) and foremost, the ****-poor range demands it. Then an absurd amount of either damage or some tracking to apply.
Abrazzar	Posted - 2010.03.18 10:11:00 - [14] Increase all gallente dronebays by 20-25%. This is to give them more damage sustainability and versatility with drones. Also improve the performance of the ewar drones except ECM drones. --------
Ogogov	Posted - 2010.03.18 14:08:00 - [15] Edited by: Ogogov on 18/03/2010 14:09:27 I agree that the Myrmidon needs a boost to it's drone ability. Right now given the cost disparity between it and the Dominix, you might as well train Gallente BS for a couple of extra days and go and get a Domi for another 20m or so. The Hyperion is an awful ship but I don't think it can be effectively addressed until Hybrids and Active Armor Tanking are properly addressed first. The Brutix needs to lose the 7.5% armor rep level and gain something more useful - possibly an MWD bonus like the Thorax? Either way, the prevalence of shield tanked fits, like the hyp, just screams that something is completely broken when you're throwing away the hulls biggest bonus. The Megathron really doesn't need ANYTHING doing to it at all - it's fine the way it is and again, any changes to bring it back into competition with other Tier 2 BS would be alterations to the behavior of its primary weapons systems - Hybrids. Additionally; The Kronos needs to lose the web bonus (which is geared towards PvP combat and ranges that simply don't happen in missions) and have something else instead. Bump its dronebay up to 125m3 as well so it can field a full flight of heavies/sentries. Failing that make blasters viable in missions somehow. Do SOMETHING with the Oneiros/Exqueror, for crying out loud. Something that preferably doesn't involve useless bonii. The Sin is so goddamn awful it's not even funny. It would be better to just get rid of it and pretend the Gallente didn't even HAVE a black ops BS until they re-engineered the Hyperion as one - or something like that. It would be less embarrassing not having a black ops BS at all than owning a Sin. Bear in mind that due to the sleeper-esque AI drones now suck, making the Proteus in particular one of the least favorite ships to run WH sites in (I'm aware ganking is a different story)- if this AI is brought into other areas of the game then a middling and frustrating weapons system will have been made next to useless as well.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2010.03.18 14:14:00 - [16] Edited by: Naomi Knight on 18/03/2010 14:14:06 Lol gallente whine :P Get into the line after caldari thx.
Ophelia Ursus	Posted - 2010.03.18 14:19:00 - [17] The correct and preferred fix for all Gallente blaster boats of cruiser size and above is to swap their base shield and armor HP, give them four lows and move the surplus to mids, then give them damage + tracking bonuses. To fix the Enyo, give it four mids and two lows, swap the base armor and shield HP, and you're done. Oh, and a 5 - 10% increase in base speed wouldn't hurt either. Ta-da!
Ogogov	Posted - 2010.03.18 14:20:00 - [18] Originally by: Naomi Knight Edited by: Naomi Knight on 18/03/2010 14:14:06 Lol gallente whine :P Get into the line after caldari thx. Troll desu.
Gordon Romineau	Posted - 2010.03.18 14:25:00 - [19] Originally by: Naomi Knight Edited by: Naomi Knight on 18/03/2010 14:14:06 Lol gallente whine :P Get into the line after caldari thx. ya drake needs a buff for sure.
Wacktopia Dark Side Of The Womb	Posted - 2010.03.18 15:47:00 - [20] Edited by: Wacktopia on 18/03/2010 15:52:47 Some ok ideas. Probably the one that hits home for me is the Hype. I've tried fitting that ship so often but I always end up disappointed compared to my Mega and Domi fits. A 7th low would be amazing on that ship but I'm not sure if this would then make it "too powerful" in some people's eyes. The Myrm would be good with a 100 bandwidth but again would this make it over-powered? Personally love the Myrm for PvP and would happily solo a drake any day that had a serious PVP fit (i.e at least a point in the mids and not just all shield buffs). I have to say that your Mega ideas are not great. Removing the 7th low will make it pointless as a buffer tank (or limit use of a Mag Stab). Removing the tracking bonus is a terrible idea given the Mega's roll as an in-your-face buffer blaster boat. The only reason I can think to remove the tracking bonus would be to replace it with a 10% bonus per level for webifier buff to compensate. Take a look at the tracking stats on the Mega during typical orbiting speeds - it needs that bonus. Originally by: Gordon Romineau Originally by: Naomi Knight Edited by: Naomi Knight on 18/03/2010 14:14:06 Lol gallente whine :P Get into the line after caldari thx. ya drake needs a buff for sure. No, it doesn't. It's a great anti-support ship and performs well at what it does. Originally by: MoeJoe Green And, in my opinion the hyperion and the brutix should get another low slot in cost of a medium. No, no, no. What do active armor tanks need? Cap. And what is gonna give you cap? Yeah, that's right: mid slots! You take a away a mid to feed the lows and you end up with a ship that can fit a great dual rep armor tank but cannot fit enough heavy boosters to sustain it.

TimMc Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.03.18 15:59:00 - [21] I prefer the change to 7.5% boost to remote and local rep amount. Mega doesn't need change. Deimos needs something like a speed/agility boost. Myrmidon extra bandwidth would be nice, but the remote rep boost change would be nice enough.
Gavin Darklighter THE FINAL STAND The Final Stand.	Posted - 2010.03.18 16:12:00 - [22] Myrmi is fine. Deimos without falloff bonus wouldn't be able to hit anything. Hype could use a stronger rep bonus but adding a slot without taking a med slot would be overpowered. Brutix needs to be brought in line with tier-2 BCs just like all the other tier-1s. Tracking bonus on mega is fine. If you really want to change it to something else I would go with 10% hybrid falloff.
Liang Nuren The Aduro Protocol Talon Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.18 20:26:00 - [23] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Care to mention what BC is able to compete with 400+dps, full rack of neuts/nos and free mid(s) for eWar? The Drake was a better Battlecruiser then, and it would be a better battlecruiser now. Sure, you might see a 1v1 with Strong Exile and deadspace reps or something where the Myrm wins - but who the ** cares about 1v1s? The real question you should be asking is what can compete with the Drake's DPS + Buffer. Quote:** Biggest hurdle I have seen is making local tank viable in small-gang scenarios without making them unbreakable when solo. IMO, we should nerf cap boosters and boost natural cap recharge/amount. Then cap warfare becomes the way to reliably turn off an active tank, and nos becomes the defense against neuts. As it stands, you can shoehorn way too much onto a ship because of cap boosters. -Liang
Lubomir Penev Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2010.03.18 20:51:00 - [24] Edited by: Lubomir Penev on 18/03/2010 20:56:32 Originally by: Artemis Rose :: Deimos :: I remember there was a devblog that would balance the Deimos and give it 4 mids. I liked it, a bunch of people went "OMFG RAGE!!" and it never happened If you want a tanky Thorax hull you have the Phobos to fly, and frankly removing the falloff bonus of the Deimos you nerf it to complete uselessness. Originally by: Ogogov The Hyperion is an awful ship but I don't think it can be effectively addressed until Hybrids and Active Armor Tanking are properly addressed first. Out of curiosity what ship would you take to beat a Hyperion 1vs1...
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.03.18 21:17:00 - [25] Originally by: Naomi Knight Lol gallente whine :P Get into the line after caldari thx. Err, I think Gallente was in line first. Or at least they're the squeakier wheel. I'd rather start with the weapons and tweak the ships only if they're found lacking afterward...but I think the drone bandwidth boost for the Myrm is just sensible. Originally by: Lubomir Penev Out of curiosity what ship would you take to beat a Hyperion 1vs1... Torp/Neut Phoon or Raven? Maybe a neut Domi?
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.03.18 21:29:00 - [26] thing about blaster ships is, the only way to boost them is to increase their damage. but before touching on the ships, blasters need to change. per case: myrm changes... hmmm.. dunno. what's the drone bay of it? before changes I used the ship with med drones (oh the horror!) in gang situations as anti-support and it worked. deimos changes: remove falloff? HAH! fat chance. brutix and hype: replace rep bonus for RoF bonus. done. megathron: no.
Lubomir Penev Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2010.03.18 21:53:00 - [27] Originally by: Seriously Bored Originally by: Lubomir Penev Out of curiosity what ship would you take to beat a Hyperion 1vs1... Torp/Neut Phoon or Raven? Maybe a neut Domi? Neuting not that much of an issue, just have to cycle reppers right after injecting. Unless either opponent manage to kite the Hype I don't see them surviving after getting tackled (but GL running mwd and neuts for long). Their damage is not that over the repping a hype can do. The real issue is except pre-arranged BS 1vs1 seldom happen. IMHO the real danger do a Hype 1vs1 is a Mael that uses less cap and tanks as much, so have more lasting power, however a Mael can't have a nice tank and full tackle so the hype should be able to get away, the hard part is taking the decision to bail soon enough...
Kenz Rider J Club	Posted - 2010.03.18 23:10:00 - [28] Myrm: 95 bandwidth would be a nice little buff. Any more and you have to start considering removing a high slot. Deimos: 5 High / 4 Mid makes it look like a Vigilant. Armor and structure HP buff could be tried. Hype: Increase armor rep bonus very slightly. Brutix: Is fine -- at least it fulfills a nice niche which not all tier 1 BC do. Mega: LOL.
Liang Nuren The Aduro Protocol Talon Alliance	Posted - 2010.03.18 23:37:00 - [29] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 18/03/2010 23:36:42 Originally by: Lubomir Penev Neuting not that much of an issue, just have to cycle reppers right after injecting. Unless either opponent manage to kite the Hype I don't see them surviving after getting tackled (but GL running mwd and neuts for long). Their damage is not that over the repping a hype can do. If you rep immediately after the boost cycle you won't have any cap for your guns. I solo'd a Hype a couple days back with a dual neut active tanked Tempest. -Liang
Last Wolf Rage For Order	Posted - 2010.03.18 23:41:00 - [30] Edited by: Last Wolf on 18/03/2010 23:46:01 Edited by: Last Wolf on 18/03/2010 23:42:16 Originally by: Hirana Yoshida The buffer paradigm is a hard one to solve due to gang-sizes continually increasing though. Biggest hurdle I have seen is making local tank viable in small-gang scenarios without making them unbreakable when solo. That is easy. Increase Rep amount AND cap/sec use by 400%. Increase capacitor amount by at LEAST double, then nerf recharge rate. Now, local tanks are AMAZING when primaried, but if you try to overuse it you'll cap out and have ZERO tank. I'm sure the lazy perma tank Mission runners would whine about this, so maybe make them whole new modules? So instead of JUST a Large Armor Repper. You have two versions of it, the "Slow and Steady" (like now) or the "BOOOOOOOST ME NOW AND TO HELL WITH MY CAP" version. Edit: Also, I think reppers should repair hp/sec instead of huge CHUNKS of armor/shield every 5 or 10 seconds. Same with cap use, slowly drain the cap each second instead of huge chunks at a time. Then deal away with cycle times and let them be turned off and on at any time.



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