How can you loose a war?

Its almost cute they really believe this.

who says we're going back north? we'll just **** on catch forever and always in some sort of buggered up marriage with -a- in which they hide in stain and we do the eve equivalent of poop on their floor and draw phalluses on their walls.

who says we're going back north? we'll just **** on catch forever and always in some sort of buggered up marriage with -a- in which they hide in stain and we do the eve equivalent of poop on their floor and draw phalluses on their walls.

I say you are going back to the north.

The only way you might consider actually staying in the south would be a tech nerf.

Come now. I expect you to be better than that.

Poop on their ceilings to confuse them.

It is in the best interest of SoCo to avoid fights with CFC until they get bored and scuttle back to the north.

I hope somebody at CCP reads exactly what you wrote, in a game about massive space ship combat, this, should NEVER be a strategy that is ever employable, there should be massive sweeping repercussions to this tactic.

I hope somebody at CCP reads exactly what you wrote, in a game about massive space ship combat, this, should NEVER be a strategy that is ever employable, there should be massive sweeping repercussions to this tactic.

Destructible (wreckable) player built outposts.

http://soundcloud.com/dariush_records/ra-meeting-07-07

Skip to 03:30

As the man says, goons/test will not be able to occupy the conquered territories, so even if they do claim land, they will not be able to keep it in the long term.

It is in the best interest of SoCo to avoid fights with CFC until they get bored and scuttle back to the north.

Its almost cute they really believe this.

Almost as cute as seeing CFC take some space for TEST. First it was Fountain now Delve. It would be really puppy cute if TEST could actually do something on their own. Which will never happen due to TEST being a pet.

CFC will loose because they win to fast? Mmmm ok.

"Until they get bored and scuttle back to the north."

He probably right... to a point ... they won't live there they will just rent that hell hole out to someone else and keep living up north.

"Until they get bored and scuttle back to the north."

... rent ...

Which will never happen due to batphones

I kinda like it in Delve, I think I may stay.

The clogged toilet known as CAOD, guys: It's over there ---->

The clogged toilet known as CAOD, guys: It's over there ---->

I like the idea of just handing over these regions to cool bros that need space and denying it to pathetic lapdog renters.

so goons won't be asking for rent on said systems,, lmfao,,,,, anyone getting this joke beside me.

so goons won't be asking for rent on said systems,, lmfao,,,,, anyone getting this joke beside me.

so goons won't be asking for rent on said systems,, lmfao,,,,, anyone getting this joke beside me.

so goons won't be asking for rent on said systems,, lmfao,,,,, anyone getting this joke beside me.

SoCo sends mails about CTAs 2 days in advance, CFC sends out a ping 5 minutes before the fleet.

But to me the fate of Catch seems to rely on the success of the diplomatic effort to create a new "eastern coalition" around SOLAR - if that effort fails I don't really see what CFC+HB are going to do with it.

We don't want Catch...

that was my point.

you don't want it but you are probably going to take it and you might conceivably end up in a situation where -A- will retake it in fall.

which is very much along the lines of what the OP claimed.

Their propaganda has pretty much brought them into a position...

With the way -A- has been treating its pilots, I'd be surprised if it exists this fall.

Why would we need to hold on to the space to win the war? Especially since we have all sorts of wonderful friends we could just give it to?....

ok guys, i'm clearly stupid.... so if taking all the sov isn't winning, how do we win?

Burn it all down like a wildfire.

Have fun jumping 50 jumps to find a fight once you do.

wildfire....

damn you, now i want to watch the end of s2 of game of thrones again...

Oh dear, what would the pubbies think if we didn't follow through on the hurf blurf we post. Their opinions of us may sour.

I want to stuff a badger full of that stuff

As a self-proclaimed high security resident that likes reading these types of threads, could someone please define who is a part of CFC besides Goonswarm and Test and SoCo besides Solar and A (whomever they are).

I read these forums often and casually note people's appearance with a corporation. So knowing the players of this war would be a great help as I continue to read.

Thanks!

oh, how glorious that would be. like a one use smart bomb on steroids...
but you'd be able to put more in an itty V :P

Have fun jumping 50 jumps to find a fight once you do.

Thankfully our utterly unseemly amounts of money and frighteningly effective logistics team means that we can create a staging system nearly anywhere in the game we want, whenever we want. Its not 50 jumps to a fight if you start living right next door to wherever it is you're burning to ash. That's precisely what we've done for this war. Dropped a brand new Outpost right on the front steps of Delve to stage out of. It only took our industrial and market goons a few days to stock it to near Jita levels.

Its not our masses of Drakes and Capitals that wins our wars. Its our logistics team and producers being insane.

Its pretty easy to grind down someone's morale when all it takes is a few victories in the field. Ours only gets stronger when there's a real threat (see: the entire Deklein war).

Thankfully our utterly unseemly amounts of money and frighteningly effective logistics team means that we can create a staging system nearly anywhere in the game we want, whenever we want. Its not 50 jumps to a fight if you start living right next door to wherever it is you're burning to ash. That's precisely what we've done for this war. Dropped a brand new Outpost right on the front steps of Delve to stage out of. It only took our industrial and market goons a few days to stock it to near Jita levels.

Its not our masses of Drakes and Capitals that wins our wars. Its our logistics team and producers being insane.

That, and the CFC mentality. It seems that most alliances get sad when they lose ships. To us, its pretty much a hiccup. Reship and get right back in the fight.

Unfortunately these pubbies will just accuse you of posturing and putting on a brave face. The idea of our willingness to accept and absorb casualties to win wars is utterly foreign and offensive to most pubbies.

The fact that we all busted up laughing when -A- managed to bomb an entire Drake fleet and then just went and got new Drakes to keep fighting is outright impossible for them to believe. We could have a video recording entire fleets of ours being destroyed with us just calming reshipping and getting back into the fight without caring at all about the loss and they would still accuse us of lying.

You can take our sov but you can never take our FREEEEDOOOMMM

personally, i'd rather have the sov.

Pretty sure we're the free ones too.

The freedome of being under -A-'s thumb.

The freedome of never undocking.

The freedome of a bubble camp.

Freedom to wake up and pop 30 of you guys before my coffee finished brewing.


and LOL ECM on Drakes?

Bet it's nice to watch your "friends" lose their sov, eh. Guess you'll be the saviors when you help them get it back or something.

Yeah there is going to be structure grind hell at some point.

Interesting how when the topic of power projection comes up and how it needs looked at; major power blocks come running in screaming it does not need a nerf. Yet if you look in this very thread nothing but bragging by the very same people of how easy logistics and power projection is and how it enables them to be anywhere on the map with ease.

The truth is revealed.

The freedome of being under -A-'s thumb.

The freedome of never undocking.

The freedome of a bubble camp.

Interesting how when the topic of power projection comes up and how it needs looked at; major power blocks come running in screaming it does not need a nerf. Yet if you look in this very thread nothing but bragging by the very same people of how easy logistics and power projection is and how it enables them to be anywhere on the map with ease.

The truth is revealed.

Interesting how when the topic of power projection comes up and how it needs looked at; major power blocks come running in screaming it does not need a nerf. Yet if you look in this very thread nothing but bragging by the very same people of how easy logistics and power projection is and how it enables them to be anywhere on the map with ease.

The truth is revealed.

Oh wow, another confused strawman from noted nullsec expert, marlona sky.

The post you are referring to in this thread is talking about creating a single staging area to defend a region from assault. It would be impossible to remove this ability without...never mind, it would just be impossible under the basic mechanics of the entire game as we know it. Removing the ability for people to make their way to any point in the galaxy over the course of literally a week would remove the ability for anyone to do anything.

What actually knowledgeable nullsec people are concerned about with reference to "power projection" is the free movement of capitals, where you can't have a good regional supercap scrap without a reasonable fear that every other supercap fleet in the game can make it there in time to pile on. This ability to "project power" over huge distances in a short period of time limits the ability for smaller regional escalations. It isn't game-breaking, but it does dampen strategy and fun somewhat for smaller entities. This has to do with recharge times, and is potentially addressable.

What actually knowledgeable nullsec people are vehemently against is a further JB nerf, which actually has nothing to do with "power projection" and everything to do with making the day to day in nullsec more bearable, and maintaining sov space as something worth claiming, developing, and defending.

Yeah there is going to be structure grind hell at some point.

I hope you realize that this is where the spotlight is shining in EVE right now, with out-of-game sources buzzing about it.

Funny.
Any structure grinding we perform during our conquest of Delve/PB/querious, you'll have to do it too if you want to take them back. And unlike PL, I doubt you'll dare drop supers to get that tedious work done.

Interesting how when the topic of power projection comes up and how it needs looked at; major power blocks come running in screaming it does not need a nerf. Yet if you look in this very thread nothing but bragging by the very same people of how easy logistics and power projection is and how it enables them to be anywhere on the map with ease.

The truth is revealed.

The fact that we all busted up laughing when -A- managed to bomb an entire Drake fleet and then just went and got new Drakes to keep fighting is outright impossible for them to believe. We could have a video recording entire fleets of ours being destroyed with us just calming reshipping and getting back into the fight without caring at all about the loss and they would still accuse us of lying.

That leads to the eqq-hen-question, though. Right now it's ofc easy to lose a whole Drake fleet, when you have the financial supply to replace it "without caring".

it's quite sad if you can't lose a cheap ship like a drake and laugh about it.

true one must laugh at the loss of one drake, but you failed to read what the guy wrote correctly, he said a whole Drake fleet.
which could be 100 - 500 ships or even more, a considerable loss to smaller corps/alliances.

it's quite sad if you can't lose a cheap ship like a drake and laugh about it.

Well, then I am sad I guess.

But that wasn't really the question. When losing something doesn't hurt you, ofc it's easy to laugh about it. Will you still laugh, when you have lost so many drakes that your wallet is empty? That can't happen you say, because your wallet is so big that you can lose thousands of drakes? Good for you, but that doesn't really prove that you will still laugh when you lose something important (kudos if you do).

Well, then I am sad I guess.

But that wasn't really the question. When losing something doesn't hurt you, ofc it's easy to laugh about it. Will you still laugh, when you have lost so many drakes that your wallet is empty? That can't happen you say, because your wallet is so big that you can lose thousands of drakes? Good for you, but that doesn't really prove that you will still laugh when you lose something important (kudos if you do).

[ ] #31. Defeat is not defeat.
"Sure they can take all of our regions. But they can't HOLD them."

The Official EVE Propaganda Checklist (from Feb 2007).

Not looking good for SoCo

Funny.
Any structure grinding we perform during our conquest of Delve/PB/querious, you'll have to do it too if you want to take them back. And unlike PL, I doubt you'll dare drop supers to get that tedious work done.

...implying that is doesn't ring false.

Oh hey, I lost something that takes about two hours of running anoms/L4s to replace out of my own pocket. NBD.

We have a slew of new R64's so I'm gonna go with 'good.'

So? Who cares about ships.

Who care about SOV?


When you don't have a tech ****, sov doesn't mean that much.

Who care about SOV?


When you don't have a tech ****, sov doesn't mean that much.

I guess all those renters you keep around are there because you're such a nice and benevolent alliance and not because of the desire to make money.

Well, then I am sad I guess.

But that wasn't really the question. When losing something doesn't hurt you, ofc it's easy to laugh about it. Will you still laugh, when you have lost so many drakes that your wallet is empty? That can't happen you say, because your wallet is so big that you can lose thousands of drakes? Good for you, but that doesn't really prove that you will still laugh when you lose something important (kudos if you do).

When you don't have moon goo, yeah, mofos got to make a penny.

An R64 moon is what 2-3bil a month what is a tech moon? Oh, and they are all in the North, farthest south tech moon I have ever heard of was in the drones.

structure grinding hell

Goddamn Onictus, you are so bitter that you've lost this war.

Whats the hardest part for you to accept? That your alliance cannot withstand pressure? That your leadership doesn't have an ounce of talent? That our FCs are better than yours? Or is it that we're having a blast while you guys get yelled at on comms?

Seriously, every post you've made this thread is just oozing with butthurt and desperate accusations / flimsy arguments. You lost. Deal with it.

LOL yourFCs are better than ours?


Ever time I've undocked for the last two weeks we have fought superior numbers and taken a notch out.

Just last night http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&adjacent&kll_id=13924094

That was before I got my coffee.

...and how many times did you guys reship to chase us out of 1DH?

LOL yourFCs are better than ours?


Ever time I've undocked for the last two weeks we have fought superior numbers and taken a notch out.

Just last night http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&adjacent&kll_id=13924094

That was before I got my coffee.

...and how many times did you guys reship to chase us out of 1DH?

Ever time I've undocked for the last two weeks we have fought superior numbers and taken a notch out.

When you don't have moon goo, yeah, mofos got to make a penny.

An R64 moon is what 2-3bil a month what is a tech moon? Oh, and they are all in the North, farthest south tech moon I have ever heard of was in the drones.

It's hard to rent space when you don't own any space. Hence you do care about Sov.

SoCo will always rent space in EastAsia

It's hard to rent space when you don't own any space. Hence you do care about Sov.

I will rat in the shade then.

Have fun in highsec!

Not that it's ever likely to happen, i am going to **** myself whilist eating a 10 year old pizza and do the joker smile for 24h the day -A- has to rent space from us because they aint got ****.

Please join the rest of literate society and read Nineteen Eighty-Four.

This has been a public service announcement from MiniLuv.

[18:57:25] Sahjahn > 10:1, 1000 backup, 500 supers. Well i'm glad we're not over-exagerating in here

Obviously everyone has a different perspective on power projection. I see some things like building a station over night directly on the front door of the enemy and stocking it to Jita levels in a couple days as power projection.

I will admit that does require a ton of logistics, which is impressive in itself. I just feel that having the same luxuries of your own base in a completely different region, right on the front lines, is too much.

Capital ships is another form of power projection, but that is a monster all on its own. You guys can flame all you want, but please provide some solid evidence that anchoring a station on the front line and filling it with a Jita like market in a couple days is not power projection.

Obviously everyone has a different perspective on power projection. I see some things like building a station over night directly on the front door of the enemy and stocking it to Jita levels in a couple days as power projection.

I will admit that does require a ton of logistics, which is impressive in itself. I just feel that having the same luxuries of your own base in a completely different region, right on the front lines, is too much.

Capital ships is another form of power projection, but that is a monster all on its own. You guys can flame all you want, but please provide some solid evidence that anchoring a station on the front line and filling it with a Jita like market in a couple days is not power projection.

Obviously everyone has a different perspective on power projection. I see some things like building a station over night directly on the front door of the enemy and stocking it to Jita levels in a couple days as power projection.

I will admit that does require a ton of logistics, which is impressive in itself. I just feel that having the same luxuries of your own base in a completely different region, right on the front lines, is too much.

Capital ships is another form of power projection, but that is a monster all on its own. You guys can flame all you want, but please provide some solid evidence that anchoring a station on the front line and filling it with a Jita like market in a couple days is not power projection.

Do you have any idea how much work is required to drop an outpost and stock it to "Jita levels?"

Reading is hard.

"Power projection is too easy, look at Goonswarm they only had to spend hundreds of man hours getting an outpost in place and getting it stocked to the level of a small market hub!"

Oh so now it is a small market hub? Pretty sure you guys said Jita level market. Which one is it? Hundreds of man hours you say? Divided between how many logistic guys?

Your alliance is massive and your coalition is the largest one to date. You like to talk about how easy setting it up was, then say how hard it was. Forgive us high sec pubbies if we become confused on you flip flopping back and forth on a subject.

It is in the best interest of SoCo to avoid fights with CFC until they get bored and scuttle back to the north.

Oh so now it is a small market hub? Pretty sure you guys said Jita level market. Which one is it?

If you get any more pedantic you might actually get to a point.

Nice dodge.

Please join the rest of literate society and read Nineteen Eighty-Four.

This has been a public service announcement from MiniLuv.

There's no such thing as Miniluv.

Some people fear pain, some fear castration, but a goon? A goon fears a comprehensive weight loss and exercise plan.

The freedome of being under -A-'s thumb.

The freedome of never undocking.

The freedome of a bubble camp.

I say you are going back to the north.

The only way you might consider actually staying in the south would be a tech nerf.

You forgot the freedom to play EVE when and how someone else tells you to.

Thread lacks content. Mods, please lock.

Oh so now it is a small market hub? Pretty sure you guys said Jita level market. Which one is it? Hundreds of man hours you say? Divided between how many logistic guys?

The F2O market is at most comparable to a small empire hub, say Agil - market coverage is very spotty and markups on the items that are seeded are often huge (random example: 60% markup on nanite repair paste which is probably the most important pvp consumable right after ammo and has very low volume per unit so you don't need anything fancy to import it).

go to http://goonmetrics.com/importing/

and check the

>= 25% Markup
< 50% Stock and
Items To Seed

sections for F2O and you will see a lot of extremely common items having either huge markups or missing entirely (and I'm not talking about the lack of Marauders and +5 implants but about basic pvp ships, items and consumables).

Goons don't notice this very much as their alliance contracts are well stocked with pre-fitted ships but the market itself is pretty bad and not comparable to any notable empire hubs.
The comparison to Jita is even more ridiculous as the whole buy order side of the market tends to miss completely in 0.0 staging systems.

(Of course it is a considerable feat to stock a market even that much - but before we have another round of CFC chestbeating I'd like to point out that for some reason almost anything I need to buy seems to have better prices and availability in 319 than in 1DH (which sucks as I'm on the CFC+HB side). The SoCo logistics team is clearly not idle either.)

Also, deployment markets focus on what is used and needed - you don't see marauders in the field, or people PvPing in +5 implants on a war of this scale.

and I'm not talking about the lack of Marauders and +5 implants but about basic pvp ships, items and consumables

anyways, no point in whining - I could list some of the missing items in 1DH/F2O myself if I really cared enough (would probably profit nicely doing so); my main purpose here was to give a straight-forward answer to that Marconus guy.

It's goonsourced. Help yourself to tasty profits :)

Don't mess with rifters though, the newbies need those to jam and web certain SoCo FCs..

Oh wow, another confused strawman from noted nullsec expert, marlona sky.

The post you are referring to in this thread is talking about creating a single staging area to defend a region from assault. It would be impossible to remove this ability without...never mind, it would just be impossible under the basic mechanics of the entire game as we know it. Removing the ability for people to make their way to any point in the galaxy over the course of literally a week would remove the ability for anyone to do anything.

What actually knowledgeable nullsec people are concerned about with reference to "power projection" is the free movement of capitals, where you can't have a good regional supercap scrap without a reasonable fear that every other supercap fleet in the game can make it there in time to pile on. This ability to "project power" over huge distances in a short period of time limits the ability for smaller regional escalations. It isn't game-breaking, but it does dampen strategy and fun somewhat for smaller entities. This has to do with recharge times, and is potentially addressable.

What actually knowledgeable nullsec people are vehemently against is a further JB nerf, which actually has nothing to do with "power projection" and everything to do with making the day to day in nullsec more bearable, and maintaining sov space as something worth claiming, developing, and defending.

lol, TL DR

If you disagree with current mechanics in 0.0 you know nothing and have never lived in 0.0
If you agree with us you're cool!!

Muppet.

A straw man is a type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.

He stated that there is no way to prevent setting up staging areas and that the primary concern with regards to "Power Projection" is Supercapital movement speed, so JB mechanics aren't relevant either.

None of his posts amounts to "Current Mechanics in 0.0 can't be reasonably disagreed with"

If you can't come up with a reasoned response to someone's post, you might consider not responding to their post.

Who said I disagreed with the post??? The way it was written was what I was complaining about not the message itself, try not to get on your high horse quite so quickly next time.

Then say that. Misrepresenting the content of someone's post then calling them a "Muppet" usually indicates disagreement (without bothering to lay out a reasoned argument for such).

How am I misrepresenting someone else's post when they include lines "Knowledgeable 0.0 dwellers" indicating than anyone else who disagrees with the post is in somehow not knowlegeable?

When you said "0.0 mechanics" in your tl;dr rather than listing them, implying that the OP was talking about all 0.0 mechanics.

Like I said, if you don't like the tone of someone's post, figure out a way to call them out on it without misrepresenting the content of their post.