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The new expansion what we know so far and what to expect

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Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.04.16 18:54:00 - [1] Edited by: Grozen on 16/04/2010 18:54:59 From what i read so far it will be close to this: 1.Will require fairly large number of new skills to develop your planet well. 2.You will be able 80% of the materials used in pos fuel-Expect a huge drop in fuel stuff on market, so far ice has bee left untouched which means miners will still be able to make small $ from it. 3.There will be tons of new stuff which use atm can only be classified as "unknown" so far. 4.Looking at the spreadsheets i noticed one of the products is planetary vehicles.This will probably mean that a lot of the stuff that we're going to make in Tyrannis is going to be specially for DUST. I think its fairly reasonable to expect a huge turn of all industrialist to planet interaction possible new ipo/bonds etc, because some of the stuff is bound to bring huge $. Most of the info is speculation because its still only in Sisi but I'm positive that a lot will remain as it is. My advice is gather a lot isk, this will probably be isk free to start but the later stages will no doubt cost a lot to develop. Feel free to add more to it discuss. knowledge is power
Clown Pron	Posted - 2010.04.16 20:08:00 - [2] 1. No. CCP clearly said that they intend to make planetary interaction low skilled entry. 2. No. It's true that alot of material you can produce on planet will be used for POS fuel but you need to remember that the numbers on the test server isn't final. Expecting a huge drop on the market is another speculation. 3. That's true but we can only speculate what they will be used for, perhaps be used to build other npc products like skillbooks, or implants, etc. Again, this is just speculation; there's nothing posted anywhere that says otherwise. 4. Another speculation, however highly probable. Most of the info you've posted so far is speculations and more speculations. Here's what we do know about the expansion 1. You can make POS fuel that were normally purchased from the market via npc orders 2. Scorpion is getting a make over 3. Deep safe is being nerfed
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc SRS.	Posted - 2010.04.16 20:14:00 - [3] I don't think planetary interaction is suppose to be high skill entry, in fact in the first blog, CCP said that they want this to be low skill entry. I don't think a lot of isk will be needed to get involved, just a command centre and a industrial ship, but then again we don't really know what the final price of a command centre will be. Store \| Get SRS
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.04.16 20:40:00 - [4] Yes i get you on the skills part i've never said you will need 5months skilling just to start pi.The entry will be very easy skill wise but what i mean is the big stuff lets say complex planetary installations/managing will require lots of skill training just like production for example.That is just a speculation tho:) knowledge is power
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.04.17 17:54:00 - [5] I see... Guidance Systems as a "Major" Grouping for something usually meaning "output". Currently Guidance Systems are used in Tech II Drones and Racial Ballistic Control Systems. Meaning the T2 Drone are probably going to get a little more expensive. Since they wouldn't cap the price of Guidance Systems by leaving NPCs selling them, Dr. E would never allow it. I predict those items to be more Pricey then before. Genetically Enhanced Livestock as an "Input" object. Interesting part about this is kinda what I predicted personally. The "non-used" in Production Commodity items are to be used in Planetary Interaction as "sources". Knowing the CCP devs to make everything as complex as possible for even the simplest things I predicted and gambled about 400-500mil (LOTS for NPC items) of inventory on those commodities. My take is pretty simple, anything that is used in the game will be produced by the players. This like Guidance Systems are used in T2 Drone Production, so they get produced by players. However, I took an extra step. In order to produce those "major" items you'll need "input" some simple items that NPC's sell. However, that would still cap the price, a little, so those items would be the "Basic" items produced by small scale Planetary Interaction. Those "Basic" items are what I gambled on. If I'm wrong meh not much loss, and worth the gamble. If I'm right and NPC's stop selling these items that will be produced and required by industrial activities on Planets then... I WIN!! Amarr for Life
Mme Pinkerton United Engineering Services	Posted - 2010.04.17 18:08:00 - [6] Aixa Syal has posted some credible looking info in this thread in GD.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.04.17 18:13:00 - [7] Everybody seems to assume NPCs would instantly cease selling all products that could be manufactured via PI as soon as Tyrannis hits. I would have to say that is a pretty bold assumption. It is far more likely NPC sell orders for those products will remain up and running until PI has picked up some speed, or at least get ramped down in volume slowly over time. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Di Mulle	Posted - 2010.04.17 20:25:00 - [8] Originally by: Akita T Everybody seems to assume NPCs would instantly cease selling all products that could be manufactured via PI as soon as Tyrannis hits. I would have to say that is a pretty bold assumption. It is far more likely NPC sell orders for those products will remain up and running until PI has picked up some speed, or at least get ramped down in volume slowly over time. QFT. I actually assume NPC sell orders will stay in place for some, maybe even prolonged enough time. CCP may get away with screwing T2 drone production for some time, but even that would be rather bold move. Now, you simply can't let POS'es to go offline because new production hasn't taken enough speed yet.
Moryg H'qarr	Posted - 2010.04.17 20:40:00 - [9] Sorry if the question is out of place, haven't really been following the PI information - will there be a limit to how many players can work on one planet at the same time? When i tested a bit on sisi earlier, the resources had limited quantities - what happens when they're depleted, when do they refresh? Has anything been said on those matters?
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.04.17 21:37:00 - [10] Originally by: Akita T Everybody seems to assume NPCs would instantly cease selling all products that could be manufactured via PI as soon as Tyrannis hits. I would have to say that is a pretty bold assumption. I don't think it's that bold of a statement. We all know Dr. E is a firm firm believer in player suppled materials. It's not as if things like Drones will not exist for a while, there are plenty of T1 Drones that don't need the NPC goods to make. It's not much a stretch for assume that CCP will go cold turkey on removal of an item.. In anything that non-removal would stunt the "numbers" I'm sure they will be monitoring closely. In fact that's almost justification in itself to demand the total removal of the Commodities from NPCs. You can't run good statistical numbers if you still have a constant source from NPCs. So there are two things it effects by keeping Commodity goods being sold by NPC. 1) The player would have no reason to make them unless they can make them MUCH MUCH cheaper then the NPCs are selling them for. So there would be stunted growth by the players actually making these items. That's not accurate or even wise statistical gathering. 2) Assuming the player can actually make the item to compete with the NPCs for much less then the NPCs are selling them for, it puts a hard limit on the price of the item itself. Something we all know Dr. E hates. However, to promote people even building them they would need to keep the NPC BUY orders up... Wait a second, things like Guidance Systems only have a few NPC buy order stations (None in Forge for example). This would force people to sell to NPCs who have a lowest price all over EVE, since everyone would selling them to the NPC at this LOW price, it would also make places like Jita sell for just a few ISK above the NPC buy order prices. There would be a very small gape between the highest NPC sell order and the lowest NPC buy order, it would actually serve to set a price with very little variance. This would not make good statistical gathering either. I believe Dr. E he would have recommended that NPC's simple stop buying and selling those items period. Sure the market will be wild for a month or two, but after that, good numbers for stats will emerge. At that point in the time CCP will have a good grasp on what is what etc and make some adjustments if needed. If they hold on removal it just is pointless to even think about running statistical models. Because the second they remove the NPC orders it all changes. Bold to think think, maybe, but that boldness is backed up by logic and history. Besides NPCs items are not exactly expensive, toss 1B at it and you'll be surprised how many commodities you'll be able to pick up. Either way, it's a win win. If they leave the NPC Buy/Sell orders up, if you where smart and started buying these items a month ago you got them cheap. Of which means you'll be able to fill the NPC buy orders up with your cheap. Not much a risk, when if they remove the NPC orders you win, if they don't remove the NPC orders you turn a small profit. That's my take on this, besides like I said, I didn't gamble on the NPC items used in manufacturing, I gambled on all the NPC items NOT used in manufacturing. Now THAT is a bold move, one that still has my mind turning if I did the right thing. Amarr for Life

Veronica Damask	Posted - 2010.04.17 21:54:00 - [11] Edited by: Veronica Damask on 17/04/2010 21:54:10 Originally by: Akita T Everybody seems to assume NPCs would instantly cease selling all products that could be manufactured via PI as soon as Tyrannis hits. I would have to say that is a pretty bold assumption. It is far more likely NPC sell orders for those products will remain up and running until PI has picked up some speed, or at least get ramped down in volume slowly over time. I wouldn't count on that, actually, it would be the first time ever for NPC orders being there after CCP's stopped NPC seeding of particular item...
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.04.17 22:11:00 - [12] You have a point... but then again, meh, what's the practical difference between a NPC sell order and a sell order from a trader that gambled NPC orders would go away, stockpiling loads of essentials ? Other than a higher price, and restricted locations, not very much. That is, if there were enough traders to stockpile enough of those for the upcoming needs before PI production volume could catch up with demand volume... because if they weren't, it won't just be a case of "insanely expensive", but downright a case of "have to shut down operations because we can't find it for sale". I somehow have a feeling that the collective stockpiles of optimistic traders combined won't nearly be enough to fill the gap even if everything works perfectly and people flock to this new thing fast (because, let's face it, you will get "collisions" of people attempting to use too few planets at first, and then realizing they're not making a lot of revenue even at high prices, and so on), let alone if something doesn't go quite right with the PI delivery on TQ (and, let's face it, when was the last time CCP delivered everything without some glitches on TQ?) which could push the time when enough volume gets produced to fill the demand quite far... and very soon after, a surplus so big prices come crashing down, or god knows what other oddities. I simply don't believe it's a wise choice to cut it all off from day one. Double or triple NPC sales prices if you want, heck, make them 10 times as high for all I care, or leave them where they are now, whatever... but only cut them off when you're sure things can keep working without a collapse brought on by sudden, acute scarcity. Oh well :shrug: I know what I would do, but I don't know if even CCP knows what they'll do yet. Either way, this is too much of a gamble for me, no matter which way they swing (and long-term swing is likely to be downwards, so profits would mostly be made by fast, early sales, which I hate fighting for)... and so I'm keeping my hands off of this one. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Hrodgar Ortal Minmatar Ma'adim Logistics	Posted - 2010.04.18 06:22:00 - [13] Removing the NPC orders at day0 would be a huge mistake. It will take time to get production of materials up and having a large portion of all poses go offline due to lack of fuelstuff for 2 months isn't a very smart idea.
Martosh Toma Gallente Fraction Investment	Posted - 2010.04.18 07:59:00 - [14] If you thik your pos is too importand to risk it going off line,then you'd better make sure you have fuel in stock right? The question might be how much fuel to have in stock. I do wonder how the markets will develop in this, assuming ccp will want to maintain or even increase the isk drain currently provided by the npc sold goods. Certain goods are now only availeble in a few regions, will this change? By their statements at least some goods will be produced in more diverse locations. Resources will probebly be non-static. How will this impact production efficiency Scarcety or bottlenecks will probebly dramatically increase the prices on some of the goods. How will this impact t2 production prices or pos maintenace. I really hope they include consumtion of all currently useless trade goods, although ccp might exclude a few to keep an easy low profit market for starting players. Intresting times ahead.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.04.18 08:19:00 - [15] Edited by: Tres Farmer on 18/04/2010 08:19:46 I'm with SencneS here.. if this PI should take off, they need to remove the NPC orders on the 18th. Whatever happens after that might be bad, but the market/industry needs to go through this, as otherwise the feedback won't be there. The only thing that will somewhat bandage that 'jump into the cold water' will be traders and pos-runners who bought enough of the stuff to hold out till the players kick in. Everybody else will get burned financially.. but this happend several times already during patches. Be it probes or bombs. On a side note.. I wonder who in here already got burned with the T3 frig gamble..
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.04.18 09:19:00 - [16] I think ccp would give at least 1 day for the people to avoid total crash of their routine.Till the next downtime is my guess which will no doubt result in massive drain of the current fuel supplies and whatnot. knowledge is power
Veronica Damask	Posted - 2010.04.18 11:32:00 - [17] Remember the day when NPC seeded shuttles were removed? Anyway, the low entry level skill wise does mean that you probably will be able to get the gear on at first day. Also, as POS fuel wise, I am sure that you can stock up for few days or so. PI will be huge for the game, and like CCP said... They want to make this as one massive scifi experience, and this is one giant leap towards it. We have enough ships in the game, and I am sure that in this forum we all have the same desire for ISK, no matter how we can make more of it
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2010.04.18 12:17:00 - [18] I may be unusual, but I usually buy my NPC fuel items about once a year. I take my freighter to some remote region and just buy up a bunch of maximum NPC orders. In fact, anyone who buys less than the maximum order is causing prices to increase unnecessarily. I'm sure a bunch of smart people will be buying up enough fuel items to make sure there will still be some available for sale, although at a higher price.
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.04.18 13:35:00 - [19] Originally by: Claire Voyant I may be unusual, but I usually buy my NPC fuel items about once a year. I take my freighter to some remote region and just buy up a bunch of maximum NPC orders. You mean there are people who like making weekly/monthly trips for POS fuel. I don't think you are unusual at all.
Wyke Mossari Gallente Staner Industries	Posted - 2010.04.18 15:54:00 - [20] Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal Removing the NPC orders at day0 would be a huge mistake. It will take time to get production of materials up and having a large portion of all poses go offline due to lack of fuelstuff for 2 months isn't a very smart idea. You do realise that the first PI production will be in space inside the first hour! Even the most complex stuff like robotics will be in space on patch day. If any POS owner fails to stock up before patch day, they are a fool who deserves to see their POS go offline.

Wyke Mossari Gallente Staner Industries	Posted - 2010.04.18 16:07:00 - [21] Originally by: Wyke Mossari You do realise that the first PI production will be in space inside the first hour! Even the most complex stuff like robotics will be in space on patch day. That has just given me an idea. In times long past, traders would sponsor races to ensure they where the first to receive valuable commodities like Tea. Perhaps MD could organise a Great POS race in tribute of those first trading moguls. The first ship to arrive at a designated trade hub with a day of POS supplies made by PI wins a prize. There would have to be some rules to prevent cheating, but I think think it is doable.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2010.04.18 18:06:00 - [22] Originally by: Akita T Everybody seems to assume NPCs would instantly cease selling all products that could be manufactured via PI as soon as Tyrannis hits. I would have to say that is a pretty bold assumption. It is far more likely NPC sell orders for those products will remain up and running until PI has picked up some speed, or at least get ramped down in volume slowly over time. There are no NPC orders seeded on SISI, you want POS fuel you have to build it. Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
Pheusia Gallente The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.18 18:26:00 - [23] The most obvious solution is a grace period, much like when the sov system changed over. NPCs sell orders continue as before for, say, 30 days while the player production chains get up and running, then they just stop getting renewed. Day T+31 will be interesting... Signed, Pheusia
Lillian Blu Gallente Red Federation	Posted - 2010.04.18 19:18:00 - [24] I have a question - won't PI cause some sort of inflation across the board? I mean everyone will be able to setup this semi-passive(?) ISK generators on planets...
Martosh Toma Gallente Fraction Investment	Posted - 2010.04.18 19:44:00 - [25] I disagree, It is easy to stock up at least a month worth of supplies. So there is no real excuse nor any real requirement to maintain npc orders for any of the goods moved over to PI. And the both the statistics and the immedeate profit for people starting up will be better with no npc competition (some suckers forget to stock up always).
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.04.18 21:25:00 - [26] Just like to point out the fact that on sisi there's no pos fuel anywhere on the markets knowledge is power
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.04.18 22:32:00 - [27] Originally by: Grozen Just like to point out the fact that on sisi there's no pos fuel anywhere on the markets I'd just like to point out the fact that on sisi you can buy a dread in highsec for 100 ISK. Your point?
ChrisIsherwood	Posted - 2010.04.18 23:47:00 - [28] Originally by: Wyke Mossari In times long past, Like say the 3rd Thursday of last November? Beaujolais Nouveau "there is a sucker born every minute and 2 to take him" Let's just say that "aggressive" marketing is not extinct. I think notice of first PI production of some items would be quaint. But upon reflection, there are two flaws. Not exactly timezone neutral. People are grumpy enough starting on patch day(s) until things are working well, without adding the emorage of losing a PI race due to bugs/crashes/lags/or owning a Mac.
Napro Caldari Buccaneers of New Eden death from above..	Posted - 2010.04.19 01:50:00 - [29] Originally by: Wyke Mossari Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal Removing the NPC orders at day0 would be a huge mistake. It will take time to get production of materials up and having a large portion of all poses go offline due to lack of fuelstuff for 2 months isn't a very smart idea. You do realise that the first PI production will be in space inside the first hour! Even the most complex stuff like robotics will be in space on patch day. If any POS owner fails to stock up before patch day, they are a fool who deserves to see their POS go offline. You're really a terrible Industrialist if the only way you can turn a profit is by manipulating the market
Driven Marcelli Minmatar Evil Overhead	Posted - 2010.04.19 06:37:00 - [30] Edited by: Driven Marcelli on 19/04/2010 06:41:09 Edited by: Driven Marcelli on 19/04/2010 06:39:57 . Im personaly suspecting that either the mats will be unseeded gradualy, hard coded to perpetualy float up in price with each buyout from an npc, or striped out all together After all literaly all of the subcomponents to 4th and 5th teir items currently are NPC tradegoods, so why dig up planet poo on a dozen or so worlds when you can just buy what you need and use one planet to make what you need.



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