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The new expansion what we know so far and what to expect

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Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.04.16 18:54:00 - [1] Edited by: Grozen on 16/04/2010 18:54:59 From what i read so far it will be close to this: 1.Will require fairly large number of new skills to develop your planet well. 2.You will be able 80% of the materials used in pos fuel-Expect a huge drop in fuel stuff on market, so far ice has bee left untouched which means miners will still be able to make small $ from it. 3.There will be tons of new stuff which use atm can only be classified as "unknown" so far. 4.Looking at the spreadsheets i noticed one of the products is planetary vehicles.This will probably mean that a lot of the stuff that we're going to make in Tyrannis is going to be specially for DUST. I think its fairly reasonable to expect a huge turn of all industrialist to planet interaction possible new ipo/bonds etc, because some of the stuff is bound to bring huge $. Most of the info is speculation because its still only in Sisi but I'm positive that a lot will remain as it is. My advice is gather a lot isk, this will probably be isk free to start but the later stages will no doubt cost a lot to develop. Feel free to add more to it discuss. knowledge is power
Clown Pron	Posted - 2010.04.16 20:08:00 - [2] 1. No. CCP clearly said that they intend to make planetary interaction low skilled entry. 2. No. It's true that alot of material you can produce on planet will be used for POS fuel but you need to remember that the numbers on the test server isn't final. Expecting a huge drop on the market is another speculation. 3. That's true but we can only speculate what they will be used for, perhaps be used to build other npc products like skillbooks, or implants, etc. Again, this is just speculation; there's nothing posted anywhere that says otherwise. 4. Another speculation, however highly probable. Most of the info you've posted so far is speculations and more speculations. Here's what we do know about the expansion 1. You can make POS fuel that were normally purchased from the market via npc orders 2. Scorpion is getting a make over 3. Deep safe is being nerfed
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc SRS.	Posted - 2010.04.16 20:14:00 - [3] I don't think planetary interaction is suppose to be high skill entry, in fact in the first blog, CCP said that they want this to be low skill entry. I don't think a lot of isk will be needed to get involved, just a command centre and a industrial ship, but then again we don't really know what the final price of a command centre will be. Store \| Get SRS
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.04.16 20:40:00 - [4] Yes i get you on the skills part i've never said you will need 5months skilling just to start pi.The entry will be very easy skill wise but what i mean is the big stuff lets say complex planetary installations/managing will require lots of skill training just like production for example.That is just a speculation tho:) knowledge is power
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.04.17 17:54:00 - [5] I see... Guidance Systems as a "Major" Grouping for something usually meaning "output". Currently Guidance Systems are used in Tech II Drones and Racial Ballistic Control Systems. Meaning the T2 Drone are probably going to get a little more expensive. Since they wouldn't cap the price of Guidance Systems by leaving NPCs selling them, Dr. E would never allow it. I predict those items to be more Pricey then before. Genetically Enhanced Livestock as an "Input" object. Interesting part about this is kinda what I predicted personally. The "non-used" in Production Commodity items are to be used in Planetary Interaction as "sources". Knowing the CCP devs to make everything as complex as possible for even the simplest things I predicted and gambled about 400-500mil (LOTS for NPC items) of inventory on those commodities. My take is pretty simple, anything that is used in the game will be produced by the players. This like Guidance Systems are used in T2 Drone Production, so they get produced by players. However, I took an extra step. In order to produce those "major" items you'll need "input" some simple items that NPC's sell. However, that would still cap the price, a little, so those items would be the "Basic" items produced by small scale Planetary Interaction. Those "Basic" items are what I gambled on. If I'm wrong meh not much loss, and worth the gamble. If I'm right and NPC's stop selling these items that will be produced and required by industrial activities on Planets then... I WIN!! Amarr for Life
Mme Pinkerton United Engineering Services	Posted - 2010.04.17 18:08:00 - [6] Aixa Syal has posted some credible looking info in this thread in GD.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.04.17 18:13:00 - [7] Everybody seems to assume NPCs would instantly cease selling all products that could be manufactured via PI as soon as Tyrannis hits. I would have to say that is a pretty bold assumption. It is far more likely NPC sell orders for those products will remain up and running until PI has picked up some speed, or at least get ramped down in volume slowly over time. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Di Mulle	Posted - 2010.04.17 20:25:00 - [8] Originally by: Akita T Everybody seems to assume NPCs would instantly cease selling all products that could be manufactured via PI as soon as Tyrannis hits. I would have to say that is a pretty bold assumption. It is far more likely NPC sell orders for those products will remain up and running until PI has picked up some speed, or at least get ramped down in volume slowly over time. QFT. I actually assume NPC sell orders will stay in place for some, maybe even prolonged enough time. CCP may get away with screwing T2 drone production for some time, but even that would be rather bold move. Now, you simply can't let POS'es to go offline because new production hasn't taken enough speed yet.
Moryg H'qarr	Posted - 2010.04.17 20:40:00 - [9] Sorry if the question is out of place, haven't really been following the PI information - will there be a limit to how many players can work on one planet at the same time? When i tested a bit on sisi earlier, the resources had limited quantities - what happens when they're depleted, when do they refresh? Has anything been said on those matters?
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.04.17 21:37:00 - [10] Originally by: Akita T Everybody seems to assume NPCs would instantly cease selling all products that could be manufactured via PI as soon as Tyrannis hits. I would have to say that is a pretty bold assumption. I don't think it's that bold of a statement. We all know Dr. E is a firm firm believer in player suppled materials. It's not as if things like Drones will not exist for a while, there are plenty of T1 Drones that don't need the NPC goods to make. It's not much a stretch for assume that CCP will go cold turkey on removal of an item.. In anything that non-removal would stunt the "numbers" I'm sure they will be monitoring closely. In fact that's almost justification in itself to demand the total removal of the Commodities from NPCs. You can't run good statistical numbers if you still have a constant source from NPCs. So there are two things it effects by keeping Commodity goods being sold by NPC. 1) The player would have no reason to make them unless they can make them MUCH MUCH cheaper then the NPCs are selling them for. So there would be stunted growth by the players actually making these items. That's not accurate or even wise statistical gathering. 2) Assuming the player can actually make the item to compete with the NPCs for much less then the NPCs are selling them for, it puts a hard limit on the price of the item itself. Something we all know Dr. E hates. However, to promote people even building them they would need to keep the NPC BUY orders up... Wait a second, things like Guidance Systems only have a few NPC buy order stations (None in Forge for example). This would force people to sell to NPCs who have a lowest price all over EVE, since everyone would selling them to the NPC at this LOW price, it would also make places like Jita sell for just a few ISK above the NPC buy order prices. There would be a very small gape between the highest NPC sell order and the lowest NPC buy order, it would actually serve to set a price with very little variance. This would not make good statistical gathering either. I believe Dr. E he would have recommended that NPC's simple stop buying and selling those items period. Sure the market will be wild for a month or two, but after that, good numbers for stats will emerge. At that point in the time CCP will have a good grasp on what is what etc and make some adjustments if needed. If they hold on removal it just is pointless to even think about running statistical models. Because the second they remove the NPC orders it all changes. Bold to think think, maybe, but that boldness is backed up by logic and history. Besides NPCs items are not exactly expensive, toss 1B at it and you'll be surprised how many commodities you'll be able to pick up. Either way, it's a win win. If they leave the NPC Buy/Sell orders up, if you where smart and started buying these items a month ago you got them cheap. Of which means you'll be able to fill the NPC buy orders up with your cheap. Not much a risk, when if they remove the NPC orders you win, if they don't remove the NPC orders you turn a small profit. That's my take on this, besides like I said, I didn't gamble on the NPC items used in manufacturing, I gambled on all the NPC items NOT used in manufacturing. Now THAT is a bold move, one that still has my mind turning if I did the right thing. Amarr for Life
Veronica Damask	Posted - 2010.04.17 21:54:00 - [11] Edited by: Veronica Damask on 17/04/2010 21:54:10 Originally by: Akita T Everybody seems to assume NPCs would instantly cease selling all products that could be manufactured via PI as soon as Tyrannis hits. I would have to say that is a pretty bold assumption. It is far more likely NPC sell orders for those products will remain up and running until PI has picked up some speed, or at least get ramped down in volume slowly over time. I wouldn't count on that, actually, it would be the first time ever for NPC orders being there after CCP's stopped NPC seeding of particular item...
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.04.17 22:11:00 - [12] You have a point... but then again, meh, what's the practical difference between a NPC sell order and a sell order from a trader that gambled NPC orders would go away, stockpiling loads of essentials ? Other than a higher price, and restricted locations, not very much. That is, if there were enough traders to stockpile enough of those for the upcoming needs before PI production volume could catch up with demand volume... because if they weren't, it won't just be a case of "insanely expensive", but downright a case of "have to shut down operations because we can't find it for sale". I somehow have a feeling that the collective stockpiles of optimistic traders combined won't nearly be enough to fill the gap even if everything works perfectly and people flock to this new thing fast (because, let's face it, you will get "collisions" of people attempting to use too few planets at first, and then realizing they're not making a lot of revenue even at high prices, and so on), let alone if something doesn't go quite right with the PI delivery on TQ (and, let's face it, when was the last time CCP delivered everything without some glitches on TQ?) which could push the time when enough volume gets produced to fill the demand quite far... and very soon after, a surplus so big prices come crashing down, or god knows what other oddities. I simply don't believe it's a wise choice to cut it all off from day one. Double or triple NPC sales prices if you want, heck, make them 10 times as high for all I care, or leave them where they are now, whatever... but only cut them off when you're sure things can keep working without a collapse brought on by sudden, acute scarcity. Oh well :shrug: I know what I would do, but I don't know if even CCP knows what they'll do yet. Either way, this is too much of a gamble for me, no matter which way they swing (and long-term swing is likely to be downwards, so profits would mostly be made by fast, early sales, which I hate fighting for)... and so I'm keeping my hands off of this one. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Hrodgar Ortal Minmatar Ma'adim Logistics	Posted - 2010.04.18 06:22:00 - [13] Removing the NPC orders at day0 would be a huge mistake. It will take time to get production of materials up and having a large portion of all poses go offline due to lack of fuelstuff for 2 months isn't a very smart idea.
Martosh Toma Gallente Fraction Investment	Posted - 2010.04.18 07:59:00 - [14] If you thik your pos is too importand to risk it going off line,then you'd better make sure you have fuel in stock right? The question might be how much fuel to have in stock. I do wonder how the markets will develop in this, assuming ccp will want to maintain or even increase the isk drain currently provided by the npc sold goods. Certain goods are now only availeble in a few regions, will this change? By their statements at least some goods will be produced in more diverse locations. Resources will probebly be non-static. How will this impact production efficiency Scarcety or bottlenecks will probebly dramatically increase the prices on some of the goods. How will this impact t2 production prices or pos maintenace. I really hope they include consumtion of all currently useless trade goods, although ccp might exclude a few to keep an easy low profit market for starting players. Intresting times ahead.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.04.18 08:19:00 - [15] Edited by: Tres Farmer on 18/04/2010 08:19:46 I'm with SencneS here.. if this PI should take off, they need to remove the NPC orders on the 18th. Whatever happens after that might be bad, but the market/industry needs to go through this, as otherwise the feedback won't be there. The only thing that will somewhat bandage that 'jump into the cold water' will be traders and pos-runners who bought enough of the stuff to hold out till the players kick in. Everybody else will get burned financially.. but this happend several times already during patches. Be it probes or bombs. On a side note.. I wonder who in here already got burned with the T3 frig gamble..
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.04.18 09:19:00 - [16] I think ccp would give at least 1 day for the people to avoid total crash of their routine.Till the next downtime is my guess which will no doubt result in massive drain of the current fuel supplies and whatnot. knowledge is power
Veronica Damask	Posted - 2010.04.18 11:32:00 - [17] Remember the day when NPC seeded shuttles were removed? Anyway, the low entry level skill wise does mean that you probably will be able to get the gear on at first day. Also, as POS fuel wise, I am sure that you can stock up for few days or so. PI will be huge for the game, and like CCP said... They want to make this as one massive scifi experience, and this is one giant leap towards it. We have enough ships in the game, and I am sure that in this forum we all have the same desire for ISK, no matter how we can make more of it
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2010.04.18 12:17:00 - [18] I may be unusual, but I usually buy my NPC fuel items about once a year. I take my freighter to some remote region and just buy up a bunch of maximum NPC orders. In fact, anyone who buys less than the maximum order is causing prices to increase unnecessarily. I'm sure a bunch of smart people will be buying up enough fuel items to make sure there will still be some available for sale, although at a higher price.
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.04.18 13:35:00 - [19] Originally by: Claire Voyant I may be unusual, but I usually buy my NPC fuel items about once a year. I take my freighter to some remote region and just buy up a bunch of maximum NPC orders. You mean there are people who like making weekly/monthly trips for POS fuel. I don't think you are unusual at all.
Wyke Mossari Gallente Staner Industries	Posted - 2010.04.18 15:54:00 - [20] Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal Removing the NPC orders at day0 would be a huge mistake. It will take time to get production of materials up and having a large portion of all poses go offline due to lack of fuelstuff for 2 months isn't a very smart idea. You do realise that the first PI production will be in space inside the first hour! Even the most complex stuff like robotics will be in space on patch day. If any POS owner fails to stock up before patch day, they are a fool who deserves to see their POS go offline.
Wyke Mossari Gallente Staner Industries	Posted - 2010.04.18 16:07:00 - [21] Originally by: Wyke Mossari You do realise that the first PI production will be in space inside the first hour! Even the most complex stuff like robotics will be in space on patch day. That has just given me an idea. In times long past, traders would sponsor races to ensure they where the first to receive valuable commodities like Tea. Perhaps MD could organise a Great POS race in tribute of those first trading moguls. The first ship to arrive at a designated trade hub with a day of POS supplies made by PI wins a prize. There would have to be some rules to prevent cheating, but I think think it is doable.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2010.04.18 18:06:00 - [22] Originally by: Akita T Everybody seems to assume NPCs would instantly cease selling all products that could be manufactured via PI as soon as Tyrannis hits. I would have to say that is a pretty bold assumption. It is far more likely NPC sell orders for those products will remain up and running until PI has picked up some speed, or at least get ramped down in volume slowly over time. There are no NPC orders seeded on SISI, you want POS fuel you have to build it. Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
Pheusia Gallente The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.18 18:26:00 - [23] The most obvious solution is a grace period, much like when the sov system changed over. NPCs sell orders continue as before for, say, 30 days while the player production chains get up and running, then they just stop getting renewed. Day T+31 will be interesting... Signed, Pheusia
Lillian Blu Gallente Red Federation	Posted - 2010.04.18 19:18:00 - [24] I have a question - won't PI cause some sort of inflation across the board? I mean everyone will be able to setup this semi-passive(?) ISK generators on planets...
Martosh Toma Gallente Fraction Investment	Posted - 2010.04.18 19:44:00 - [25] I disagree, It is easy to stock up at least a month worth of supplies. So there is no real excuse nor any real requirement to maintain npc orders for any of the goods moved over to PI. And the both the statistics and the immedeate profit for people starting up will be better with no npc competition (some suckers forget to stock up always).
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.04.18 21:25:00 - [26] Just like to point out the fact that on sisi there's no pos fuel anywhere on the markets knowledge is power
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.04.18 22:32:00 - [27] Originally by: Grozen Just like to point out the fact that on sisi there's no pos fuel anywhere on the markets I'd just like to point out the fact that on sisi you can buy a dread in highsec for 100 ISK. Your point?
ChrisIsherwood	Posted - 2010.04.18 23:47:00 - [28] Originally by: Wyke Mossari In times long past, Like say the 3rd Thursday of last November? Beaujolais Nouveau "there is a sucker born every minute and 2 to take him" Let's just say that "aggressive" marketing is not extinct. I think notice of first PI production of some items would be quaint. But upon reflection, there are two flaws. Not exactly timezone neutral. People are grumpy enough starting on patch day(s) until things are working well, without adding the emorage of losing a PI race due to bugs/crashes/lags/or owning a Mac.
Napro Caldari Buccaneers of New Eden death from above..	Posted - 2010.04.19 01:50:00 - [29] Originally by: Wyke Mossari Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal Removing the NPC orders at day0 would be a huge mistake. It will take time to get production of materials up and having a large portion of all poses go offline due to lack of fuelstuff for 2 months isn't a very smart idea. You do realise that the first PI production will be in space inside the first hour! Even the most complex stuff like robotics will be in space on patch day. If any POS owner fails to stock up before patch day, they are a fool who deserves to see their POS go offline. You're really a terrible Industrialist if the only way you can turn a profit is by manipulating the market
Driven Marcelli Minmatar Evil Overhead	Posted - 2010.04.19 06:37:00 - [30] Edited by: Driven Marcelli on 19/04/2010 06:41:09 Edited by: Driven Marcelli on 19/04/2010 06:39:57 . Im personaly suspecting that either the mats will be unseeded gradualy, hard coded to perpetualy float up in price with each buyout from an npc, or striped out all together After all literaly all of the subcomponents to 4th and 5th teir items currently are NPC tradegoods, so why dig up planet poo on a dozen or so worlds when you can just buy what you need and use one planet to make what you need.
Driven Marcelli Minmatar Evil Overhead	Posted - 2010.04.19 06:50:00 - [31] Edited by: Driven Marcelli on 19/04/2010 06:50:47 Originally by: Grozen Edited by: Grozen on 18/04/2010 14:14:29 Edited by: Grozen on 16/04/2010 18:54:59 From what i read so far it will be close to this: 1.Will require fairly large number of new skills to develop your planet well. 2.You will be able to make 80% of the materials used in pos fuel-Expect a huge drop in fuel stuff on market, so far ice has bee left untouched which means miners will still be able to make small $ from it. 3.There will be tons of new stuff which use atm can only be classified as "unknown" so far. 4.Looking at the spreadsheets i noticed one of the products is planetary vehicles.This will probably mean that a lot of the stuff that we're going to make in Tyrannis is going to be specially for DUST. I think its fairly reasonable to expect a huge turn of all industrialist to planet interaction possible new ipo/bonds etc, because some of the stuff is bound to bring huge $. Most of the info is speculation because its still only in Sisi but I'm positive that a lot will remain as it is. My advice is gather a lot isk, this will probably be isk free to start but the later stages will no doubt cost a lot to develop. Feel free to add more to it discuss. 1) three so far, and there entry level skills 2) what we are seeing now may just be placeholder items for the real thing 3) . . . um yes, we know that, we have a ****load of stuff pileing up on Sisi that we dont know what its for yet 4) I did mention placeholders before did I not? seriously why wouyld you use a car as a subcomponent? also tbh its posible that the fact that a lot of the substeps are known tradegoods may be so that its posible to make money even if your not able to make the right stuff in quantities demanded by player by supplying the npc marketplace oh and at current production rates your looking at an income of about 10-40 million per planet per month. Not Exactly Thrilling
Kanatta Jing	Posted - 2010.04.19 08:16:00 - [32] I'll be disappointed if anyone in highsec puts up an extractor in the first week. That is all.
Wyke Mossari Gallente Staner Industries	Posted - 2010.04.19 09:29:00 - [33] Originally by: Napro Originally by: Wyke Mossari Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal Removing the NPC orders at day0 would be a huge mistake. It will take time to get production of materials up and having a large portion of all poses go offline due to lack of fuelstuff for 2 months isn't a very smart idea. You do realise that the first PI production will be in space inside the first hour! Even the most complex stuff like robotics will be in space on patch day. If any POS owner fails to stock up before patch day, they are a fool who deserves to see their POS go offline. You're really a terrible Industrialist if the only way you can turn a profit is by manipulating the market Laugh. I laughed so hard I had a coughing fit.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.04.19 11:46:00 - [34] Well, if they indeed do cut out all NPC sell orders for anything that can be produced on planets come May 18, it will be an interesting rollercoaster ride to watch unfold. _ Beginner's ISK making guide \| Manufacturer's helper \| All about reacting _
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.04.19 15:50:00 - [35] No idea how much cash it makes atm on sisi but it has been confirmed that ccp will release several tiers of PI each been able to hold more of x.So i highly doubt that you will be making 10-40m max from this.Lets be realistic pos fuel for large pos cost atleast 6x that so i doubt you will be able to make less them month supply of fuel from one planet. knowledge is power
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.04.19 15:59:00 - [36] I am SOOOO waiting for PI to take off so well that CCP look at Moons next. Why a POS is mining a planet 5,000 to 10,000 km away from it is stupidity. Bring on Moon Interaction with Surface mining!! Amarr for Life
Olusegun Obasanjo Minmatar CENTRAL BANK OF NIGERIA	Posted - 2010.04.19 16:39:00 - [37] Originally by: Akita T Well, if they indeed do cut out all NPC sell orders for anything that can be produced on planets come May 18, it will be an interesting rollercoaster ride to watch unfold. i support this product and/or service this is a complete shot in the dark, but anyone have any ideas about the value of the planets? will plasma be the new dysporo? (assuming they will be worth anything at all.
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.04.19 17:35:00 - [38] Originally by: Olusegun Obasanjo Originally by: Akita T Well, if they indeed do cut out all NPC sell orders for anything that can be produced on planets come May 18, it will be an interesting rollercoaster ride to watch unfold. i support this product and/or service this is a complete shot in the dark, but anyone have any ideas about the value of the planets? will plasma be the new dysporo? (assuming they will be worth anything at all. They hinted that the dangerous planets will likely bring better rewards so its more then likely plasma/lava will be our tech/dyspro knowledge is power
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.04.19 18:14:00 - [39] Originally by: Celeste Coeval Originally by: Akita T Everybody seems to assume NPCs would instantly cease selling all products that could be manufactured via PI as soon as Tyrannis hits. I would have to say that is a pretty bold assumption. It is far more likely NPC sell orders for those products will remain up and running until PI has picked up some speed, or at least get ramped down in volume slowly over time. There are no NPC orders seeded on SISI, you want POS fuel you have to build it. The sell orders are there, simply the market Browse and Search function are broken (bug reported that). R-click on a enriched uranium unit in your hangar and use the "view market details" option. You will see the items. Probably it work R-clicking on the build requirement of items too. Probably CCP is in the middle of changing the item group or some other database related change and some link is broken so the items aren't found in market using the normal systems.
Arthor Dark	Posted - 2010.04.19 18:28:00 - [40] Guidance system is what is used now in t2 drone production. Guidance systemS is what is listed in t2 drone production on sisi. Similarly for all other NPC goods. Stock pile NPC goods now, they'll be worthless when the patch hits.
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2010.04.19 19:05:00 - [41] Originally by: Akita T Well, if they indeed do cut out all NPC sell orders for anything that can be produced on planets come May 18, it will be an interesting rollercoaster ride to watch unfold. If you like watching nearly empty roller coasters. In other words, volume will be very low until prices stabilize.
RJ Nobel Nobel Research and Development	Posted - 2010.04.19 19:09:00 - [42] Originally by: Venkul Mul The sell orders are there, simply the market Browse and Search function are broken (bug reported that). Confirmed. NPC orders have not been removed from SISI. Originally by: Grozen No idea how much cash it makes atm on sisi but it has been confirmed that ccp will release several tiers of PI each been able to hold more of x.So i highly doubt that you will be making 10-40m max from this.Lets be realistic pos fuel for large pos cost atleast 6x that so i doubt you will be able to make less them month supply of fuel from one planet. The general consensus of PI versions 2 and 3 (the current SISI build is 3) is that one large POS will require 6-7 null-sec planets. To keep 6 planets in full production would require around 10-15 minutes of playtime per day, or 5-7.5 hours per month. Resource extractors work on 3-6 hour cycles, so you'll need to log on and "hit refresh" on your extractors several times each day to maintain full efficiency. And remember, this is just for the NPC fuel items - you'd still have to mine/purchase your ice products. It's possible that higher-value items, such as implants or skillbooks, will appear as the "upper" tier of PI. However, the entire design of PI focuses on the value of a product coming from the player-time invested. PI has to be properly balanced so that time in = value out in reasonable proportions. It's achievable, but quite difficult. If you haven't been on SISI yet, I strongly encourage you to check it out and provide feedback on the test forum. The devs are genuinely looking for more quality input.
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.04.19 19:10:00 - [43] Edited by: Grozen on 19/04/2010 19:10:30 I don't really think the effect will be so big even if they remove the npc sell orders, because anyone with half brain stockpiles supplies for producing/fuel for month not once a day or something.If anyone is going to be affected its going to be someone that has just returned to eve and his pos is offline or something, starting PI is easy too so while there might be lil panic i'm sure it won't be anything major. knowledge is power
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2010.04.19 21:49:00 - [44] Originally by: Claire Voyant Originally by: Akita T Well, if they indeed do cut out all NPC sell orders for anything that can be produced on planets come May 18, it will be an interesting rollercoaster ride to watch unfold. If you like watching nearly empty roller coasters. In other words, volume will be very low until prices stabilize. According to my calculations, and Sisi testing I can have product in Jita (any NPC consumable) within 24-48 hrs of the patch. The only current problem seems to be that cycles don't repeat automatically and have to be done manually. Way to go CCP (if this is correct) and put more power into the hands of farmers who are on 24/7. My current calculations show that a suitable planet (not giving my research away) returns about 30-50M ISK per month. Remember these numbers are obviously very fluid depending on price, CCP changes, etc. Obviously it could be possible to have many planets in a system or multiple systems. A nice system with different types of planets would be a huge bonus. With a bit of ferrying it will be possible to make the tier 4 items (none of which are for current in game products and possibly for dust)
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.04.19 22:54:00 - [45] Originally by: cosmoray The only current problem seems to be that cycles don't repeat automatically and have to be done manually. Way to go CCP (if this is correct) and put more power into the hands of farmers who are on 24/7. I have to disagree with this. I can't repeat my industry or science jobs without being online, why should PI be any different?
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.04.19 23:32:00 - [46] You are both right and wrong.First its easy to repeat industry jobs because you actually set to produce x for 20days and only take care of it on day 20.Second according to cosmos research planets only give bout 50m per month and that's with a lot of work, according to him all the job has to be done manually over 24/7. I will repeat again.Ccp said they will have different sizes of PI so they can handle more of x , there's good chance with the sizes will come more automated mining of these planets.Rare planets will bring more isk.The stuff produced for dust could be gold mine if dust comes out nice and attracts many players. knowledge is power
Driven Marcelli Minmatar Evil Overhead	Posted - 2010.04.20 01:11:00 - [47] Edited by: Driven Marcelli on 20/04/2010 01:14:45 Edited by: Driven Marcelli on 20/04/2010 01:12:30 Originally by: Grozen Originally by: Olusegun Obasanjo Originally by: Akita T Well, if they indeed do cut out all NPC sell orders for anything that can be produced on planets come May 18, it will be an interesting rollercoaster ride to watch unfold. i support this product and/or service this is a complete shot in the dark, but anyone have any ideas about the value of the planets? will plasma be the new dysporo? (assuming they will be worth anything at all. They hinted that the dangerous planets will likely bring better rewards so its more then likely plasma/lava will be our tech/dyspro nope, they are refering to low sec W-space and 0-0 not the type of planets. if my numbers are accurate (granted they have warned repetedly that is subject to change because there plan is to "reseed" planets when it goes live) currently its Worst to best (number of planets scanned) note I consider the sample to be idioticaly low to be considered a truly valid sample but the trend of planet yeild was as follows Empire (27) Empire based W space (9) and FW zones(14) and FW Wspace 17 seem to be roughly equal "NPC" 00 (35) "unclamed" 0.0 was higher but not by mutch, its posible that the Sov system might kick in to buff production NPC 00 Wspace (14) and unclamed 00(16) were so freaking high that its either a bug (over half the worlds I scanned were solid white on all 5) or intended
Driven Marcelli Minmatar Evil Overhead	Posted - 2010.04.20 02:26:00 - [48] Edited by: Driven Marcelli on 20/04/2010 02:34:54 ok the "hard numbers" on sisi currently An Extactor will pull one one of 4 settings, fast to slow, slow nets you the highest posible yeild per day but takes 15 hours, Fast has the worst net yeild on a run but pulls faster. however what said processor pulls is based on what you can get and sometimes you just have to settle However Extractors are a pain in the ass currently. they offten screw up afte a cycle and you end up tearing up extractors to reset things and then you have to go back and relay your "pipeplines" that said the real bottle neck is the Processors, thoes take in mats, chew on them for 1800 seconds and spit out product to get O2 (the base POS fuel) you need a single step process that nets you 20 units per 1800 seconds so every half hour your getting 20 of the 25 units needed to run a pos for 1 hour so far the best world I have seen suports 3.7 proccessors at the 15 hour setting per day so in theory your looking at 1 planet pushing out up to (and probably more) than 148 units(note that takes stacking extractors almost literaly on top of eachother somethig the developers have already said is getting nerfed because thats close to the yeild they expected from the high end setups, not somethig you could do with the basic TIMO setups currently on Test) thats enough to suport almost 6 larg towers with O2 or to put it another way your looking at makeing less than 21,756 ISK per hour 522,144 ISK per day 15,664,320 ISK per moth from one planet the above is at the current "Test server" npc sale price of around 140 pu, yes I know that the live NPC sale price is around 100 Uranium is a second teir product, it takes 40 units of Precious and 40 units of toxic metals to make 5 units of Enriched Uranium so bascialy 2 proccesor hours feed 1 half hour cycle or 5 total proccessor hours to make 10 units of Uranium at 50,000 an hour. (the bad news is that to make this optimum level currently you need 2 diferent planets + a "factory world" however if you get 2 3.7 yeild worlds (usualy a 1-3 system hop between them in 0-0) thats 7.4 processors feeding 1.925 prossessors putting out 19.25 units of enriched uranium per hour, the live server prices for that at the station I just checked for npc orders thats 96250 per hours from 2 worlds or 48125 per hour 1,155,000 per day 34,650,000 per month Edit note fixed the time cycle from 25 hours to 15
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.04.20 03:10:00 - [49] Thanks for the detailed explanation dude, but there are still many things to go live on PI.Most notable would be the trade center which supposedly lets you interact with other people(sharing production and lines and bla bla).Also the current imputs are not worth looking at.I'm sure they are subject to change for better.Hell it doesn't matter how big the planet deposits are the main thing is to be able to make the process easy task that doesn't require much work so far ccp fails in this task Also i'm sure that PI will get many expansion, patches as the current version is no where near the final product they've pointed out its early aplha though i can't see how are they going to make so many changes till may. knowledge is power
Driven Marcelli Minmatar Evil Overhead	Posted - 2010.04.20 03:55:00 - [50] Edited by: Driven Marcelli on 20/04/2010 04:04:03 Given that were less than 1 month from live your not going to see very drastic changes in things unless we can show them that something they have set up is completly wrong. (kind of hard to do when this has been on there internal servers being QAed for at least a full month before we ever saw it. they already know what kind of numbers to Expect) Right now apart from the issue where you can build pins almost literaly in eachothers blue rings, thus causing a newbi TIMO set up to produce at almost the level they expected to get from the best of the best unit they had on there drawing board, and the posibility that they have used current tradegoods to hide the actual items that are produced by all of this, (kind of likely but we will find out soon enough) were more or less at the what you see is what you get point unless they somehow suprise us. In all fairness its also posible that the developers have already seen what were seeing now (given how there development cycle works) and either are or have already made some changes to the system but thoes will turn up shorty in any event or did you miss that they abrutly deleted the original May 18th date for Tyranis on there banners and replaced it with soon. http://www.eveonline.com/
Driven Marcelli Minmatar Evil Overhead	Posted - 2010.04.20 04:37:00 - [51] ok let me be clear on some thingsl Level 3 output items are currently things like Gel-Matrix biopaste, Hazmat Detection Systems, Planetary Vehicles, they usualy take 3 Teir 2 components to make a level a level 3 Item, in the case of Cerebrographic Composits you need 6 Haz mat sensors, 6 G-M Biopaste and 6 Planetary Vehicls to make just one well. Read the fine footnotes!*** ------------------ Gel-matrix biopaste is a highly unstable substance that must be formed from elements that donÆt combine under normal circumstances. Forcing them to do so requires enormous amounts of energy, but the end product is invaluable to high-end electronics and cybernetic medicine. A critical component of space stations, starships, or any other isolated environment, these tiny devices are set to trigger alarms when the genetically engineered viruses inside mutate ù which means that theyÆve encountered a significant dose of radiation, natural contaminant, or airborne pathogen, signifying that the surrounding crew is in danger.(thats the flavor text explaining how it works currently in game, I kid you not!) Which incidentaly is a subcomponent to a level 4 Item known as Cerebrographic Composits, thus why I do suspect that what we have is a placeholder tradegood in at least that case. After all its kind of hard to figure out why a Cerebrographic Composit needs to be made with thoes three Items unless your suposed to tape the Hazmat Detection System to the front bumper of the planetary vehicle and ram it into a Iron plate wall covered in Gel-Matrix Biopaste. . . but I digress Essentially just three-dimensional images of active brain telemetry, these scans are not just for use as medical studies. Many of the most advanced computer systems use interfaces and logic routines derived from cerebrographic composites as well. *** Considering you need to expend 6 planetary vehicls to make one. . . you have to wonder just how big the junkyard next to the prodution plant is going to be!
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2010.04.20 14:27:00 - [52] From my testing it is quite easy to make tier 2 products from 1 planet, and some tier 3 with at least 2 planets. Tier 4 will require some decent logistics, but most of the outputs looks like it is for the dust expansion (speculation*). I think initially corps will look to harvest planets to make all the fuel requirements to run their POS. About 6 planets seem to be required 1 large POS per month. It will certainly be easier to make on planet than ice mine.
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.04.20 15:48:00 - [53] Originally by: cosmoray About 6 planets seem to be required 1 large POS per month. Or one planet and six people, assuming the planet supplies all that is needed. Don't forget, you "can" have more then one person per planet. If a planet produces goods, I can't see why you will not have corp run planets in which the entire corp is hogging the space. In fact I predict this will be the process for a large amount of corps that have POSes.. You're not limited to the number of planets you can harvest, Logistics takes care of one player capturing every single planet. Once one person finds the sweet setup to produce what your POS needs I can see corps saying "OK People we need you guys to set this up, check it one a day and you get {free} POS slots" or something like that. It's not as if CCP is limited the number of Planets you can manage. Amarr for Life
Driven Marcelli Minmatar Evil Overhead	Posted - 2010.04.20 16:57:00 - [54] Originally by: cosmoray From my testing it is quite easy to make tier 2 products from 1 planet, and some tier 3 with at least 2 planets. Tier 4 will require some decent logistics, but most of the outputs looks like it is for the dust expansion (speculation). I think initially corps will look to harvest planets to make all the fuel requirements to run their POS. About 6 planets seem to be required 1 large POS per month. It will certainly be easier to make on planet than ice mine. but at what volume, right now im up to feeding 4 processors 24/7 with my silo being 75% full when I reset the extractors with my ICS style layouts, and thats on a 60/65% of max feed spot my silo is at ~75% when im resetting and I think its posible that I might be able to rebiuld to fit another proccessor without unplugging any extractors on a 15 hour feedcycle. (yes my numbers above are a bit out of date now, They REALY need to nerf the ability to ICS spam by building them with the black bit literaly touching each other) ----------- *Infinite City Spam
brokenrage	Posted - 2010.04.21 01:28:00 - [55] Ive been reading this thread. Should we expect the price of pos fuels to crash after this expansion seen as there is a now supply from the planets?
Jarne Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations Vivisection.	Posted - 2010.04.21 10:48:00 - [56] The better question is: Will they remove the POS fuel NPC sell orders? If yes, it don't think it will crash, unless by "crash" you mean skyrocket :). - Success=Achievements/Expectations
Mme Pinkerton United Engineering Services	Posted - 2010.04.21 12:31:00 - [57] Originally by: brokenrage Should we expect the price of pos fuels to crash after this expansion seen as there is a now supply from the planets? So, you probably have no idea how to get a sound answer to this question. I don't have any idea either. In that case the best you can do is to look at the market. more non-NPC sellers than usual -> prices might crash; lots of buying from NPC orders -> prices might surge; business as usual -> nobody thinks he knows how this is going to work out. Of course other people are usually just about as stupid as you (and I), so if you see people buying huge amounts of POS fuel that doesn't necessarily mean prices are going to rise - it just means you should look at the possibility of rising prices a second time because you might have missed something that other people have recognized. Also, I would expect industrialists to stock up on POS fuel if they don't know what will happen (if in their opinion the probability of prices rising/falling is 50%/50%). That being said, I have no understanding of PI and the market for NPC goods.
Hel O'Ween Men On A Mission	Posted - 2010.04.21 13:39:00 - [58] Finally some hard facts (reformatted by me to display the produced goods better): Originally by: CCP Soundwave The end rewards will come off the NPC market. Basically you'll be able to build - POS structures - sov structures - POS fuel (the NPC seeded parts) - T2 components (the NPC seeded parts again) - station components - nanite repair paste. Might be forgetting something, but that's it I think Source: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1305311&page=1#25 (Comment thread of new dev blog). -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.04.21 14:02:00 - [59] Originally by: Mme Pinkerton more non-NPC sellers than usual -> prices might crash; lots of buying from NPC orders -> prices might surge; business as usual -> nobody thinks he knows how this is going to work out. It's a hard call because we don't know how complex or time consuming/steps in process these will need. I can imagine right after DT, hundreds of people all huddling around planets deploying their stuff to make things like Robotics or Mechanical parts, the pricey fuels for POSes. Someone smart might feed it into O2 etc, knowing that everyone else will be going for the big priced items. I actually expect POS Fuels to decrease in price pretty quickly after deployment, there will be a surge in price sure, but it WILL decline because of everyone doing it. What I expect a price INCREASE in is things that are not on peoples radar often. Tech II manufactures of odd ball mods will know these things and those are the ones I expect price increases on. The theory is that of Shuttles, They where valued at 5,0000 ISK. 4,500 ISK in places where they where not sold much, 9,500 ISK in places that people purchased then for reprocessing. Although these are purchased all the time they are not main stream item so people ignore them, and when they need to buy some, they are happy in paying 20,000 ISK That's 6.69 ISK per units of Trit, people are happy to pay because it's usually a one off deal. I would expect items that are used but not consistently to be high priced, while things like POS fuel to be low price as there is lots of competition. Not to mention all of the above is voided if the process is complex or extremely time consuming. On SISI, I tried a very simple tier one process.. Water. I found a ICE planet in which all the scans showed all the materials to be at least 60% (Pretty high I'm told) I scanned and found the darkest deposits of Aquatic Liquids, plopped down an extractor. Plopped down a Processor, Selected Water.. 6,000 units of Aquatic Liquids needed to produce 20 units of water. OK this is good, it's not 1:1 which would be crazy... I go back to the extractor, scan for deposits and.... BOOM... Between 25 and 40 units of AL.. WT Hell! I thought AHH good one CCP you need complexity, fair enough, I go looking for nice deposits and plot down another, create a link, another 35 units a minutes... I go for another one and "There is not enough Power to install another extractor..." ARE YOU KIDDING ME!! I had a look to see if I could find out what Water would be needed for and it is used in a few things but all of them say things like, need 100 to 400 units of water. Now do the math... 6,000 units of AL to produce 20 units of water, 200 units of water to produce liquid cooling processors or something. Producing 75 units of AL a minute. It comes out to be 14 hours to produce one process of Liquid Cooled Processors. Which 15 hours the extractors shutdown. I don't know what they go to make, I never looked but it seems excessive. So I looked at producing just Water, went to price it and NPC orders where still up for Water. Water on T, costs about 35 ISK a unit. Water on SISI is selling from NPCs for between 1 - 1.5 ISK a unit. This was after I check to see if POS fuels where removed from NPCs (Which they are) so some commodities are going to hang around, some of them have been price adjusted. For 14 hours of PI to produce 200 units of water, you'd get a whopping 300 ISK. Even with T's prices you'd get staggering 7,000 ISK. Expanded over a month thats 16,237.50 on S or 378,875 on T. I'm better CCP haven't quiet finalized what is produced at what rate, it'll be until then knowing which way the price will go is difficult. Because if the process for Water above is the "norm" I would expect water to be priced at 1,000 ISK a unit. But if NPCs are selling it for 1.0 ISK it makes harvesting water stupid. Amarr for Life
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.04.21 14:49:00 - [60] the current lvls of PI can not be realistic because they cannot supply anything atm what's left for pos fuel or producing anything.The scenario in which ccp increases drastically the output of everything is more then likely, the stuff atm is mostly for experiment. knowledge is power
Driven Marcelli Minmatar Evil Overhead	Posted - 2010.04.21 16:01:00 - [61] Originally by: SencneS Originally by: Mme Pinkerton more non-NPC sellers than usual -> prices might crash; lots of buying from NPC orders -> prices might surge; business as usual -> nobody thinks he knows how this is going to work out. I found a ICE planet in which all the scans showed all the materials to be at least 60% (Pretty high I'm told) I scanned and found the darkest deposits of Aquatic Liquids, plopped down an extractor. Plopped down a Processor, Selected Water.. 6,000 units of Aquatic Liquids needed to produce 20 units of water. OK this is good, it's not 1:1 which would be crazy... I go back to the extractor, scan for deposits and.... BOOM... Between 25 and 40 units of AL.. WT Hell! I thought AHH good one CCP you need complexity, fair enough, I go looking for nice deposits and plot down another, create a link, another 35 units a minutes... I go for another one and "There is not enough Power to install another extractor..." ARE YOU KIDDING ME!! I had a look to see if I could find out what Water would be needed for and it is used in a few things but all of them say things like, need 100 to 400 units of water. Now do the math... 6,000 units of AL to produce 20 units of water, 200 units of water to produce liquid cooling processors or something. Producing 75 units of AL a minute. It comes out to be 14 hours to produce one process of Liquid Cooled Processors. Which 15 hours the extractors shutdown. I don't know what they go to make, I never looked but it seems excessive. So I looked at producing just Water, went to price it and NPC orders where still up for Water. Water on T, costs about 35 ISK a unit. Water on SISI is selling from NPCs for between 1 - 1.5 ISK a unit. This was after I check to see if POS fuels where removed from NPCs (Which they are) so some commodities are going to hang around, some of them have been price adjusted. For 14 hours of PI to produce 200 units of water, you'd get a whopping 300 ISK. Even with T's prices you'd get staggering 7,000 ISK. Expanded over a month thats 16,237.50 on S or 378,875 on T. I'm better CCP haven't quiet finalized what is produced at what rate, it'll be until then knowing which way the price will go is difficult. Because if the process for Water above is the "norm" I would expect water to be priced at 1,000 ISK a unit. But if NPCs are selling it for 1.0 ISK it makes harvesting water stupid. ok first off you drop the processor where its white not dark, (slide the RIGHT side of the slider in untill you get patches of white then drop the Extracors there) some of my waterworks are at between 110 and 150 per min Extractors are 60 second cycles, a 100 unit extraction will net you 3000 units per half hour so you need 2 to feed 1 proccessor durring a mining cycle. This is complicated by how active you will be durring the day at this, if your running a 15 hour mining cycle per 24 hours you need to mine 320 units of planet poo feed a P1 output currently
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.04.21 16:50:00 - [62] Originally by: Driven Marcelli ok first off you drop the processor where its white not dark, (slide the RIGHT side of the slider in untill you get patches of white then drop the Extracors there) some of my waterworks are at between 110 and 150 per min Extractors are 60 second cycles, a 100 unit extraction will net you 3000 units per half hour so you need 2 to feed 1 proccessor durring a mining cycle. This is complicated by how active you will be durring the day at this, if your running a 15 hour mining cycle per 24 hours you need to mine 320 units of planet poo feed a P1 output currently I got it right dude, I put the extractor in the most concentrated area. Maybe the planet was just bunked.. Either way, even at 150units per minute, on 2 extractors, that's 20 minutes to produce 20 units of water. 43,200 units of water a month. That's 1,512,000 ISK a month at T prices and 64,800 ISK at SISI prices. Either way it's a waste of time to produce water to sell.. in order for it to be worth while it should produce maybe 1mil a day. Thats 857,143 units of water a month at T prices or 20,000,000 units a month at S prices. So between 20 units a water a minute. Which would mean you're harvesting 6,000 units of Aquatic Liquids a minute. Regardless of if I was "doing it wrong" no one is going to be producing and selling these Tier 1 processes because it would be a waste of time and effort, considering the cost and profit made by producing them. Amarr for Life
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.04.21 17:11:00 - [63] Edited by: Tres Farmer on 21/04/2010 17:15:45 Originally by: SencneS moves hand furiously in front of audience ..after I'd read your comment in that other thread about narcotics I just think: "What the hell is S. really doing down there?" Also your numbers are off by a factor of at least 4 or 4.5.. depending on how many extractors your PCC is running (with current stats, in the dev blog they talk about upgrades, so..). That's also why most of the people consider running pure extractor planets with basic lvl1 processing and then processing planets which will just do lvl2/3/4/5/x processing. The volumes are quiet managable, once you're done with lvl1 processing, so hauling isn't that big of a PITA it looks at first sight. Only unknown so far is how many PCC per player we are able to run maxed out.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2010.04.21 18:56:00 - [64] I think some of the latter posters haven't noticed this: Quote: Set up camp. To begin your ruthless exploitation, you will need a base of operation. This means getting a command center and putting it down on the location you like. The command center is the most important building as it dictates where and what you can build. You can only have one on each planet, and if you want to populate multiple planets, setting up several colonies, training a skill is necessary. From here So there will be a skill based limit in the number of settled planets for each single character. No "spawn a command center on a almost useless planet as they are unlimited". And SecneS, fuel POS has not been removed. It is a simple market bug, to see them you need only to R-click on one of the fuel items ans select "view market details".
Driven Marcelli Minmatar Evil Overhead	Posted - 2010.04.21 19:07:00 - [65] Originally by: SencneS Originally by: Driven Marcelli I got it right dude, I put the extractor in the most concentrated area. Maybe the planet was just bunked.. Either way, even at 150units per minute, on 2 extractors, that's 20 minutes to produce 20 units of water. 43,200 units of water a month. That's 1,512,000 ISK a month at T prices and 64,800 ISK at SISI prices. Either way it's a waste of time to produce water to sell.. in order for it to be worth while it should produce maybe 1mil a day. Thats 857,143 units of water a month at T prices or 20,000,000 units a month at S prices. So between 20 units a water a minute. Which would mean you're harvesting 6,000 units of Aquatic Liquids a minute. Regardless of if I was "doing it wrong" no one is going to be producing and selling these Tier 1 processes because it would be a waste of time and effort, considering the cost and profit made by producing them. Bascialy its kind of a case of your doing it wrong, you dont mine Veldspar that you have to fly 100k to get to when you have ABC in front of you and more trit in your hanger than you will use in a year. you dont mine water when you dont have a need for it for higher level production. you mine water when your also mining Electrolights in order to produce Coolant http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1004/POS_fuel_flowchart.pdf Thanks to Celeste Coeval for making this
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.04.21 20:00:00 - [66] Originally by: Driven Marcelli Basically its kind of a case of your doing it wrong, you don't mine Veldspar that you have to fly 100k to get to when you have ABC in front of you and more trit in your hanger than you will use in a year. You dont mine water when you dont have a need for it for higher level production. You mine water when your also mining Electrolights in order to produce Coolant (well that and some other things but the point stands). That and npcs are suposedly going to drop out of the "buy sell" market on tradegoods http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1004/POS_fuel_flowchart.pdf Thanks to Celeste Coeval for making this You clearly missed the point. I'm talking about one simple part of the entire chain of production... Producing Water... I don't care what water is used for, or what it goes to make in the end. What if people don't want to produce Coolant they just want to be a Water supplier so people can pump out Coolant without having to create Water. This idea is actually on the Tyrannis page.. "Extract and sell raw materials, process standard commodities or even create manufacturing systems capable of producing valuable starbase structures." The above is why people would want to produce massive amounts of Water. They are not looking to produce anything other then the raw materials to those who are producing something else, very much like people mining veldspar and don't use it but sell it instead. Never assume someone is going into PI just to make anything, they may just want to be a raw materials supplier, they may not want to manage four different planets, they may only one or two. Because as someone else said due to the limitations people are just going to produce Tier 1 but lots of it on a Planet for those who don't produce T1 stuff and actually just want to produce end product. SISI has Water on sale by NPC for 1.0 to 1.5 as well as buy orders. Mind you I haven't looked in a day, so maybe CCP have removed it now. None the less I'm basing it on potentially out-dated information. I'll say this thought in case you're wondering. When I was on SISI NPC goods where removed for POS Fuel, As in no NPC orders for POS Fuel items. So CCP had removed some commodities, but Water was still on there, and it did get a massive price change. *though this might have been a market bug as someone pointed out. If they remove NPC orders in the end, it's an argument for extremely expensive POS fuels. If it takes a day to produce barely enough coolant to run a Large POS for one hour, imagine the demand that will be placed on those things. IF the current sequence and time sink it is to produce any decent amount of Water is any indication of any part of PI, I would expect POS Fuels to be INCREDIBLY expensive. If the NPC orders remain, no one is going to produce the items because... well... the time sink and effort required will not be worth it while you compete against NPCs. Amarr for Life
Alice Celadon	Posted - 2010.04.22 01:53:00 - [67] Originally by: SencneS ... I feel like a bi-atch tooting my little horn, but it's my contention that the scenario you're describing is not accidental. Undoubtedly outputs will be somewhat beefed up in time for the release of Tyrannis. Regardless, I aver that Tyrannis is a purposeful redirection of isk from the sort of entity who anchors large POS towers to the common EVE player.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.04.22 04:30:00 - [68] Edited by: Tres Farmer on 22/04/2010 04:35:36 Edited by: Tres Farmer on 22/04/2010 04:34:02 Originally by: SencneS I'm talking about one simple part of the entire chain of production... Producing Water... [...] At 150u/min sources you can run the following setup: 1 PCC has 10k MW and 5k TF. 1 extractor with 150u/min runs 0.75 processors The numbers don't match up good, but what the hell.. typetfmw# of PINs --------------------------------- pcc5000100001 extr25010007 proc5002506 stor1502501 launch4505000 link/km0.2000.040280km (20km per PIN) --------------------------------- sum49568761.2 ================================= free441238.8 Means this planet will pull out 5,040 units of water a day (20u x 2 x 24hr x 5.25). At current NPC sell prices (32.56/u) that's worth 164k isk a day. 4.9M per 30 days. Yeah.. waterprices are in need of a raise. Whats a month of babysitting a planet worth anyways? With current mechanics you need to check back to that dirtball every 12 hours for 3 minutes. 2hrs a month. Then the hauling. If we compare it with mining in high sec we would like to get 10M a hour. This means the planet should yield 30M a month? So 1 unit of water would come in at around 200 isk? * *) upkeep not included
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.04.22 05:53:00 - [69] Originally by: Tres Farmer Whats a month of babysitting a planet worth anyways? With current mechanics you need to check back to that dirtball every 12 hours for 3 minutes. 2hrs a month. Then the hauling. If we compare it with mining in high sec we would like to get 10M a hour. This means the planet should yield 30M a month? So 1 unit of water would come in at around 200 isk? * *) upkeep not included Some steps are low ISK yield anyway, but really in the amounts that will need to be required people are going to setup Planets the just produce one raw material. Do that to a few people and have planets producing low tier items then one planet that produces finished goods. But who is going to do this? There are by far more profitable things to do that require far less effort and zero logistics. The reward for babysitting a rock every day better be worth while or no one will do it. That fact that CCP have said "You're not going to build massive colonies". Which is a disappointment. Half the fun on the original SISI version of PI was me creating MASSIVE production changes with 40 extractors all over the place, processes and storage. I just think CCP missed the mark a little and the end result will be extremely high POS Fuel prices or NPC orders being the sole provider. The high price comes from a lack of desire to babysit the thing, and low product yield. The only way people will do something extremely boring for hours on end will be cause of reward. Well at the moment no matter how you slice it, the reward is just not good enough.
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.04.22 06:03:00 - [70] My very speculative guess is that they will allow us to mine/store bigger volume of stuffs, but it will be skill related, needless to say unless theres fuel seeded there will be hell but only for 1-2months. knowledge is power
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.04.22 06:14:00 - [71] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 22/04/2010 06:14:05 Why are you so bothered? It's market. It's demand and offer. CCP can only put things in the flaunted sandbox and leave the players give them a value. NPC orders should be phased out and then... if people will value their time to be so worthless to make less than mining, that's just market. If people will think the reward sucks, they'll stop doing it and the price will quickly raise and adjust to... demand and offer levels. CCP did well to put the cycles in annoying lengths, so people will feel the sting (translated: will want to be paid for the bother) and won't probably just do like datacore farming or macro mining. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.04.22 07:06:00 - [72] Based on SiSi (which isn't finalized) and my own w-space system (which isn't typical of all systems): One Planet: * Oxygen is made in abundance even on a really poor quality planet. * Coolant is tough to make in any quantity (I have 2 poor quality planets setup and that's not really enough to get much ahead of POS usage). Two Planets: * Mechanical Parts * Enriched Uranium Both are easy to make in reasonable quantities. Five(?) Planets: * Robotics Way too much effort is required. I may end-up just buying Robotics. Robotics require Mechanical Parts and Consumer Electronics, so I expect those will be higher priced than the other POS fuels. I believe the following is correct for what is currently on SiSi: 6000 Noble Gas -> 20 Oxygen 6000 Noble Metals -> 20 Precious Metals 6000 Heavy Metals -> 20 Toxic Metals 40 Precious Metals + 40 Toxic Metals -> 5 Enriched Uranium 6000 Noble Metals -> 20 Precious Metals 6000 Base Metals -> 20 Reactive Metals 40 Precious Metals + 40 Reactive Metals -> 5 Mechanical Parts 6000 Ionic Solutions -> 20 Electrolytes 6000 Aqueous Solutions -> 20 Water 40 Electrolytes + 40 Water -> 5 Coolant 6000 Noble Metals -> 20 Precious Metals 6000 Base Metals -> 20 Reactive Metals 40 Precious Metals + 40 Reactive Metals -> 5 Mechanical Parts 6000 Heavy Metals -> 20 Toxic Metals 6000 Non-CS Crystals -> 20 Chiral Structures 40 Toxic Metals + 40 Chiral Structures -> 5 Consumer Electronics 40 Mechanical Parts + 40 Consumer Electronics -> 5 Robotics
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.04.22 11:35:00 - [73] Edited by: Tres Farmer on 22/04/2010 11:35:38 Originally by: Tau Cabalander ... 6000 Noble Metals -> 20 Precious Metals 6000 Base Metals -> 20 Reactive Metals 40 Precious Metals + 40 Reactive Metals -> 5 Mechanical Parts 6000 Heavy Metals -> 20 Toxic Metals 6000 Non-CS Crystals -> 20 Chiral Structures 40 Toxic Metals + 40 Chiral Structures -> 5 Consumer Electronics 4010 Mechanical Parts + 4010 Consumer Electronics -> 53 Robotics
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.04.22 15:20:00 - [74] Originally by: Tau Cabalander 6000 Ionic Solutions -> 20 Electrolytes 6000 Aqueous Solutions -> 20 Water 40 Electrolytes + 40 Water -> 5 Coolant So I went back to my planet and found the Aqueous Solutions was about 70%. I picked the largest location and managed to get about 95 out of it, every 60 seconds out of it. This was an ICE Planet by the way, so maybe that is a problem. Maybe a Ocean planet will produce more, maybe there is classes of planets which CCP said "OK this planet "can" produce these items but it's at a reduced rate to this type of planet." I wouldn't put it past them. I was able to throw 2 Extractors on the surface for a total of 181 Aqueous Solutions a minute. Taking that and expanding it out to fuel a Large POS for a month. This requires 34,560 units of water a month. This requires 207,360,000 units of Aqueous Solutions a month. Time to extract that many units at the rate of 500 a minute (Which is over 2.5 times more then I am currently extracting) 414,720 minutes. Or 288 Days.... So 30 days worth of Coolant requires 288 days worth of Water. Either CCP are just screwing with us on SISI or they are expecting people to consume 10 planets to produce Coolant for ONE SINGLE large POS. Amarr for Life
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2010.04.22 15:31:00 - [75] Starting to get the feel how CCP are launching this. CCP don't want people to be able to span 100's of colonies on planets and leave them for a month, come back and have a huge amount of material. With the skill limits on what you can control per character and the requirements for logging in to reactivate extractors, planet interaction is starting to look like an alternative to mission/mining with similar rewards (actually lower). In a best case scenario I assume that you will be able to get 15-18 colonies per account (3 characters, 5-6 per). Instead of logging in every 15 hrs, it will be once every 24 so about 66% run rate. With good products around 20-50M ISK per planet (obviously massively changeable CCP depending). Working your account will provide around 1 PLEX per month, roughly equivalent to RP's with 15-18 research agents. It will be intersting to see what the cost of a good planet set up is (assuming Tres Farmer above), and what the ROI is per month. If the ROI is high enough will new businesses launch from it. I initially had a plan to make a conglomerate and try and dominate a sgement, but now it looks like something fun to do.
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.04.22 15:39:00 - [76] Originally by: cosmoray I initially had a plan to make a conglomerate and try and dominate a sgement, but now it looks like something fun to do. I had a similar plan, just produce one product on a massive scale. But I don't think this will happen. As for the "Fun" I don't know how fun it could possibly be considering the limitations of structures on the surface. On the first incarnation I had a HEAP of fun creating a MASSIVE colony of extractors, going to storage, those storage arrays going to processors, those processors going to storage, then into another processor etc. Now, however... it seems like we'll hardly be able to put 10 items on a planet :( Doesn't sound like fun.. Amarr for Life
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.04.22 15:43:00 - [77] Originally by: SencneS So I went back to my planet and found the Aqueous Solutions was about 70%. I picked the largest location and managed to get about 95 out of it, every 60 seconds out of it. This was an ICE Planet by the way, so maybe that is a problem. Maybe a Ocean planet will produce more, maybe there is classes of planets which CCP said "OK this planet "can" produce these items but it's at a reduced rate to this type of planet." I wouldn't put it past them. I was able to throw 2 Extractors on the surface for a total of 181 Aqueous Solutions a minute. I'm using 2 ice planets. Aqueous Solutions is a bottleneck for me too. On each planet I have 4x extractors for Aqueous Solutions and 4x extractors for Ionic Solutions, both using the 14 hour resource deposit. I'd like to produce at least a 2:1 time ratio (so 28 hours worth of coolant). Overall though, I can keep a large tower fueled with 2 accounts. Which makes me really wonder about corps with multiple towers, especially since not everyone will want to do PI (like I don't want to do robotics).
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2010.04.22 15:46:00 - [78] Maybe fun was the wrong word, something else to do in-game. It will add some income for minimal work. Maybe the way to go would be to make enough chains in a system to make tier 4 products. The only cost to run the chain is the initial investment. Then massively stockpile the Tier 4 product(s) and wait to sell at a new expansion release or when the goods are required.
Soulita Gallente Inner Core	Posted - 2010.04.22 16:23:00 - [79] Edited by: Soulita on 22/04/2010 16:24:41 Originally by: cosmoray Maybe the way to go would be to make enough chains in a system to make tier 4 products. The only cost to run the chain is the initial investment. Not so sure if the final version of PI will have the setup costs as the only costs for PI. Certainly that is true at the moment on SISI, but I speculate this may change. A potential isk sink that would fit with the idea of tyrannis would be: A simple slider that lets you chose on how much you pay your planetary workers. - Low/no pay would result in potential problems when producing having to do with worker unrest, or the need for paid security forces (Later those will be the dust players) - High pay would reduce the risk of worker unrest Again, this is speculation, but seems simple enough to do and would fit well with the description of Tyrannis.
Hel O'Ween Men On A Mission	Posted - 2010.04.22 17:08:00 - [80] Originally by: Soulita Edited by: Soulita on 22/04/2010 16:26:42 Originally by: cosmoray Maybe the way to go would be to make enough chains in a system to make tier 4 products. The only cost to run the chain is the initial investment. Not so sure if the final version of PI will have the setup costs as the only costs for PI. Certainly that is true at the moment on SISI, but I speculate this may change. According to CCP, there will be ongoing maintenance costs: Originally by: CCP Fear 5) There will definetly be cost of running your colony, what that is is not 100% decided on so i can't go into much detail on it, other than Power. Source -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.04.22 17:51:00 - [81] Hell i know that in one of the PI threads dev said this"there will be upgraded CCs with higher CPU and power outputs", that transforms into more automated process and trows off most calculations in this topic so before you got nuts at least wait for PI version 6,7. knowledge is power
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.04.22 17:58:00 - [82] Quote: So 30 days worth of Coolant requires 288 days worth of Water. Quote: I had a similar plan, just produce one product on a massive scale. But I don't think this will happen. So far it looks like it's a good design. Imagine what would happen if there was virtually no bottleneck and 300k accounts were put into farm mode and with "massive scale". How many POSes worth of material would be produced? It would make trit at 0.5 isk look like a good income. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Nick Riddick	Posted - 2010.04.22 21:20:00 - [83] Originally by: Tres Farmer Edited by: Tres Farmer on 22/04/2010 04:35:36 Edited by: Tres Farmer on 22/04/2010 04:34:02 Originally by: SencneS I'm talking about one simple part of the entire chain of production... Producing Water... [...] At 150u/min sources you can run the following setup: 1 PCC has 10k MW and 5k TF. 1 extractor with 150u/min runs 0.75 processors The numbers don't match up good, but what the hell.. typetfmw# of PINs --------------------------------- pcc5000100001 extr25010007 proc5002506 stor1502501 launch4505000 link/km0.2000.040280km (20km per PIN) --------------------------------- sum49568761.2 ================================= free441238.8 Means this planet will pull out 5,040 units of water a day (20u x 2 x 24hr x 5.25). At current NPC sell prices (32.56/u) that's worth 164k isk a day. 4.9M per 30 days. Yeah.. waterprices are in need of a raise. Whats a month of babysitting a planet worth anyways? With current mechanics you need to check back to that dirtball every 12 hours for 3 minutes. 2hrs a month. Then the hauling. If we compare it with mining in high sec we would like to get 10M a hour. This means the planet should yield 30M a month? So 1 unit of water would come in at around 200 isk? * *) upkeep not included There is one small problem with the math. You are unlikely to get 150u/min in raw material in empire space. Some were having a hard time getting into the double digits on Sisi in empire. So for 150u/min you will need to be in very low sec, or 0.0 where getting 150u/min yield is obtainable. So your mining in empire for 10m/hour will need to be fixed as you can make much more than that in low/null sec. The rest of the stuff looks good though. Just my 2 cents....
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.04.22 22:06:00 - [84] How do you make implants and spell books on the planets? Are they going to be pretty much cost free ? (other than some sort of time and opportunity cost per character ?) Will one character be able to crank out dozens of standard attribute implants a month do you think?
Di Mulle	Posted - 2010.04.23 00:48:00 - [85] Originally by: Diomedes Calypso How do you make implants and spell books on the planets? Are they going to be pretty much cost free ? (other than some sort of time and opportunity cost per character ?) Will one character be able to crank out dozens of standard attribute implants a month do you think? He will not. Go read devblog thread, devs sad what will be produced. No implants, no skillbooks. As for spellbooks... no idea :P
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.04.23 01:05:00 - [86] Originally by: Di Mulle He will not. Go read devblog thread, devs sad what will be produced. No implants, no skillbooks. As for spellbooks... no idea :P However devs have also said that do what those items to be player produced. Perhaps in an upcoming patch/expansion once they get the bugs worked out of PI.
Driven Marcelli Minmatar Evil Overhead	Posted - 2010.04.23 02:34:00 - [87] Originally by: Breaker77 Originally by: Di Mulle He will not. Go read devblog thread, devs sad what will be produced. No implants, no skillbooks. As for spellbooks... no idea :P However devs have also said that do what those items to be player produced. Perhaps in an upcoming patch/expansion once they get the bugs worked out of PI. Skillbooks, BPOs, the new boosters they mentioned recently and implants will not be part of Tyranis nor the followup (roughly July/august).they >MAY< be part of incarna and/or Dust 514 however that said they have said that excluding any items developed for the epic arcs or loot drops, for now the main plan is that any and all new Sov, Pos, posfuel or related structures and will probably be built with PI structures.
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:32:00 - [88] Ha i was right!You are now able to upgrade the extractors to better cpu output and god knows what else.It looks like it won't be as dumb as some people thought.Not to mention when i scouted i found huge deposits in planets that are in high sec. knowledge is power
Frenden Dax Dax Acquisitions	Posted - 2010.04.23 05:55:00 - [89] Originally by: Grozen Edited by: Grozen on 23/04/2010 05:44:31 nvm they removed bpos from the list of items you will create There goes my scheme to produce Titan BPOs. Damn. I finally updated my copy of Sisi and took a look at PI tonight. I believe I can encapsulate my experience as 'holy god this has a long way to go development-wise.' It's probably too soon to make calculations or guesses about what PI will look like in its final form.
Alice Celadon	Posted - 2010.04.24 01:21:00 - [90] Does anyone have any inklings as to how the PI structures will be built/seeded?
Driven Marcelli Minmatar Evil Overhead	Posted - 2010.04.24 06:17:00 - [91] yes a version of its on Sisi now. the problem is they have a few "placeholder" goods in the list that are aparently hiding what the real final product is, but that will probably go away when they reload Sisi with a newer version of it.
Friedman The X-Trading Company RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.24 17:59:00 - [92] From CCP Soundwaves recent Dev-Blog Quote: The effort you put into it is up to you of course; if youÆre on a trial account and feel that managing a single colony extracting raw materials for a few extra isk on the side is what you want, thatÆs perfectly doable. If youÆre a hardcore industrialist and run a network of planets, producing massive amounts of goods, thatÆs possible too. At the end of the day, this is for everyone. I don't like the idea that one can participate in PI with a trial account. Wouldn't that mean that people will tend to make trial acc's just for the sake of farming raw materials. Sure you have to put time into managing these accounts, but wouldn't that have a significant impact on prices of raw materials?
Phi Doe Neptune Research Corporation One Stop Research	Posted - 2010.04.24 23:20:00 - [93] Will special corp roles be required for PI stuff?
Driven Marcelli Minmatar Evil Overhead	Posted - 2010.04.25 00:40:00 - [94] Originally by: Phi Doe Will special corp roles be required for PI stuff? not currently, its not part of corp anything at the present time since they wanted it to be 100% newbi freindly at launch new version hits SiSi tuesday so check back then ***************(sig)******** In other words Shut the sniveling Put brain in gear Plot according to your preferences, instincts and knowledge Profit
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.04.25 01:07:00 - [95] Originally by: Alice Celadon Does anyone have any inklings as to how the PI structures will be built/seeded? More than likely NPC seeded much like POS/Sov structures. Probably eventually being planet produced when CCP decides to move POS/Sov structures to that as well.
Alpis ARK-CORP SATRAPY	Posted - 2010.04.26 10:46:00 - [96] from reading another thread ccp will (eventually) remove npc commodities from the market to be replaced by PI. would it be possible for ccp to reduce the amount of fuel (current npc parts) needed per tower? or maybe change the per hour cost to a per day cost. (this reflected from PI production qty)
Io Callisto	Posted - 2010.04.26 12:06:00 - [97] You may cheerfully expect most NPC sell orders for lots of items to disappear with Tyrannis. The only ones that might stay are the cheapest ones, usually cheap because they are found in Low Sec. The rest of the orders -- gone. Why? Because if NPC materials are continued to be offered by NPC sell orders, who will want to put the effort into PI? Not many, because at heart we are all LAZY and if we can buy "stuff" off the market and not waste time in boring, repetitive tasks, then we won't. If both PI and NPC sources were available for a short time, as some people are suggesting is needed to transition the EvE economy to PI, prices will tank...and again, who will bother? No profit in that, thus no interest. Ever wondered why Jita is so successful? Same reason. Despite higher prices, it's CONVENIENCE. Why waste your time managing a string of Planetary Interaction production chains when you could be out ratting in 0.0, or mining ABC in a WH, or PVP'ing? Finally, there is the simple fact that CCP has made no secret of it's desire to put the economy in the hands of the players. That's what Tyrannis is about, so why screw with that plan by keeping NPC sell orders around? Suck it up, kiddies. PI is coming and you can either be part of it, or keep shopping in Jita.
FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.04.26 13:24:00 - [98] Originally by: Alpis from reading another thread ccp will (eventually) remove npc commodities from the market to be replaced by PI. would it be possible for ccp to reduce the amount of fuel (current npc parts) needed per tower? or maybe change the per hour cost to a per day cost. (this reflected from PI production qty) Probably not, since it is too cheap to run a pos currently.. PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!
Steve Thomas Minmatar	Posted - 2010.04.26 19:31:00 - [99] ok lets look at what a large chunk of the player base is probably going to do anyone with a POS will be stocking up on npc fuel, anyone thinking about putting up or that they might need to replace pos/sov structurs will need to see if they can get a stock of them in advance then your going to have speculators buying up npc fuel, station assemblys and or subcomponents because they know someone is going to forget or not realise that theres an expansion comeing that kicks over the applecart then there is the (small) issue of what the developers think will happen **. . . . . . . .** Stop freaking worrying about why things the developers did 5 years and more ago no longer make sense.
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.04.27 16:52:00 - [100] There are several new upgrades which changes a lot of the previous statements on this topic.The ones that are most notable are that pi is no longer instanced so you can choose which planets are busy(aka filled with other people), and which planets are free so you can choose well before setting up.The biggest upgrade however is prolonging the cycle time on everything to 95hours which makes the whole process and not so tedious anymore. knowledge is power
Driven Marcelli Minmatar Evil Overhead	Posted - 2010.04.27 18:01:00 - [101] Originally by: Grozen Edited by: Grozen on 27/04/2010 16:56:07 There are several new upgrades which changes a lot of the previous statements on this topic.The ones that are most notable are that pi is no longer instanced so you can choose which planets are busy(aka filled with other people), and which planets are free so you can choose well before setting up.The biggest upgrade however is prolonging the cycle time on everything to 95hours which makes the whole process automated and not so tedious anymore. Right now the big question is will you have to rip out the extractors every 95 hours /4 days ***************(sig)******** In other words Shut the sniveling Put brain in gear Plot according to your preferences, instincts and knowledge Profit
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.04.27 18:53:00 - [102] Having to take care of it every 4days isn't a hassle at all i personally tend my industry stuff 2-3times a day so its perfectly normal if wants attention every 4days. knowledge is power
Baneken Gallente Aseveljet Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.04.28 08:51:00 - [103] Well so far on SiSi you can put 6 extractors per basic command module. One extractor costs 150 000 ISK to place and you have to replace them every 24min for optimal production, meaning around 1.8million ISK for costs per hour for optimal production in high sec. How long you can mine depends on planet in question with 24mins before depletion being Amarr prime (1.0), lower sec status naturally means bigger resources and thus lessened production costs.
Alpis ARK-CORP SATRAPY	Posted - 2010.04.28 20:46:00 - [104] i dont believe you have to replace them, just change them to another cycle time. im waiting the 30 min to see what happens. this tells me that you'll need 1 planet to process raw/tier1/tier2 stuff. until the upgrade cc is avail. ccp seem to intend that you put your buildings on top of your cc (command center), and that each planet for you will have 1 resource you can get. im guessing you either decide to mine or to process (either basic or advanced) but it will be difficult to do both for 1 character. would be nice to see cpu and power upgrades on the market (or buildable via PI) that can attach to your cc.
nether void Caldari Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.04.28 22:56:00 - [105] The problem I had last night is the raws became increasingly depleted in the spot I had my set up. First I went for the 5 hour one. After it was depleted I rescanned and chose the 5 hour again, except this time it was only pumping out half. I rescanned the planet, and sure enough the area I had my operation in was severely depleted, but other areas had not changed their saturation levels. Do the areas reseed? If not and we have to rip up our entire operations every time we deplete an area PI will be way too much hassle. It would have to be almost more lucrative than moon mining to go through that much hassle. Also, please allow us to set max routing from storage to 'other unit'! I hate having to route each raw flow out of the storage unit and into the processor. Can't I just say 1000000/10000000? I don't want anything sitting in the storage unit if the processor has room. ------------------------------------------ nethervoid - Est. '97 [UO\|EQ\|SB\|SWG\|EVE\|PS\|HZ\|VG\|WoW] I bred you! I led you! And I have looked into the face of the force that put the idea in your mind
Olusegun Obasanjo Minmatar CENTRAL BANK OF NIGERIA	Posted - 2010.04.29 05:34:00 - [106] Originally by: SencneS Originally by: Driven Marcelli ok first off you drop the processor where its white not dark, (slide the RIGHT side of the slider in untill you get patches of white then drop the Extracors there) some of my waterworks are at between 110 and 150 per min Extractors are 60 second cycles, a 100 unit extraction will net you 3000 units per half hour so you need 2 to feed 1 proccessor durring a mining cycle. This is complicated by how active you will be durring the day at this, if your running a 15 hour mining cycle per 24 hours you need to mine 320 units of planet poo feed a P1 output currently I got it right dude, I put the extractor in the most concentrated area. Maybe the planet was just bunked.. Either way, even at 150units per minute, on 2 extractors, that's 20 minutes to produce 20 units of water. 43,200 units of water a month. That's 1,512,000 ISK a month at T prices and 64,800 ISK at SISI prices. Either way it's a waste of time to produce water to sell.. in order for it to be worth while it should produce maybe 1mil a day. Thats 857,143 units of water a month at T prices or 20,000,000 units a month at S prices. So between 20 units a water a minute. Which would mean you're harvesting 6,000 units of Aquatic Liquids a minute. Regardless of if I was "doing it wrong" no one is going to be producing and selling these Tier 1 processes because it would be a waste of time and effort, considering the cost and profit made by producing them. i think adam smith would like to have a word with you
Grozen Caldari Titan Core	Posted - 2010.04.29 14:34:00 - [107] Edited by: Grozen on 29/04/2010 14:34:52 Originally by: Io Callisto You may cheerfully expect most NPC sell orders for lots of items to disappear with Tyrannis. The only ones that might stay are the cheapest ones, usually cheap because they are found in Low Sec. The rest of the orders -- gone. Why? Because if NPC materials are continued to be offered by NPC sell orders, who will want to put the effort into PI? Not many, because at heart we are all LAZY and if we can buy "stuff" off the market and not waste time in boring, repetitive tasks, then we won't. If both PI and NPC sources were available for a short time, as some people are suggesting is needed to transition the EvE economy to PI, prices will tank...and again, who will bother? No profit in that, thus no interest. Ever wondered why Jita is so successful? Same reason. Despite higher prices, it's CONVENIENCE. Why waste your time managing a string of Planetary Interaction production chains when you could be out ratting in 0.0, or mining ABC in a WH, or PVP'ing? Finally, there is the simple fact that CCP has made no secret of it's desire to put the economy in the hands of the players. That's what Tyrannis is about, so why screw with that plan by keeping NPC sell orders around? Suck it up, kiddies. PI is coming and you can either be part of it, or keep shopping in Jita. This statement is wrong because out of all pos fuels ccp is removing they still leave these alone: liquid ozone, heavy water, nitrogen isotopes; Those are the fuels that are needed in large portion to supply your tower energy needs.Those are the fuels that are produced trough ice harvesting so even if they remove the other fuels big deal.People can produce the rest of the stuff relatively easy with the new Pi and you don't even need that much of it to supply your large tower.So nobody should panic if they remove npc stuff from the market ice fuels will remain there, and the fuels like oxygen(aka nonplayer npc produced atm) can be easy made in fairly large portion with few toons. knowledge is power

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