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Driven Marcelli
Minmatar
Evil Overhead
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Posted - 2010.04.19 06:50:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Driven Marcelli on 19/04/2010 06:50:47
 Originally by: Grozen
Edited by: Grozen on 18/04/2010 14:14:29
Edited by: Grozen on 16/04/2010 18:54:59
From what i read so far it will be close to this:
1.Will require fairly large number of new skills to develop your planet well.
2.You will be able to make 80% of the materials used in pos fuel-Expect a huge drop in fuel stuff on market, so far ice has bee left untouched which means miners will still be able to make small $ from it.
3.There will be tons of new stuff which use atm can only be classified as "unknown" so far.
4.Looking at the spreadsheets i noticed one of the products is planetary vehicles.This will probably mean that a lot of the stuff that we're going to make in Tyrannis is going to be specially for DUST.
I think its fairly reasonable to expect a huge turn of all industrialist to planet interaction possible new ipo/bonds etc, because some of the stuff is bound to bring huge $.
Most of the info is speculation because its still only in Sisi but I'm positive that a lot will remain as it is.
My advice is gather a lot isk, this will probably be isk free to start but the later stages will no doubt cost a lot to develop.
Feel free to add more to it discuss.
1) three so far, and there entry level skills
2) what we are seeing now may just be placeholder items for the real thing
3) . . . um yes, we know that, we have a ****load of stuff pileing up on Sisi that we dont know what its for yet
4) I did mention placeholders before did I not? seriously why wouyld you use a car as a subcomponent?
also tbh its posible that the fact that a lot of the substeps are known tradegoods may be so that its posible to make money even if your not able to make the right stuff in quantities demanded by player by supplying the npc marketplace
oh and at current production rates your looking at an income of about 10-40 million per planet per month.
Not
Exactly
Thrilling
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Kanatta Jing
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Posted - 2010.04.19 08:16:00 -
[32]
I'll be disappointed if anyone in highsec puts up an extractor in the first week.
That is all.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Staner Industries
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Posted - 2010.04.19 09:29:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Napro
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal
Removing the NPC orders at day0 would be a huge mistake.
It will take time to get production of materials up and having a large portion of all poses go offline due to lack of fuelstuff for 2 months isn't a very smart idea.
You do realise that the first PI production will be in space inside the first hour! Even the most complex stuff like robotics will be in space on patch day.
If any POS owner fails to stock up before patch day, they are a fool who deserves to see their POS go offline.
You're really a terrible Industrialist if the only way you can turn a profit is by manipulating the market
Laugh. I laughed so hard I had a coughing fit.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.04.19 11:46:00 -
[34]
Well, if they indeed do cut out all NPC sell orders for anything that can be produced on planets come May 18, it will be an interesting rollercoaster ride to watch unfold.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.04.19 15:50:00 -
[35]
No idea how much cash it makes atm on sisi but it has been confirmed that ccp will release several tiers of PI each been able to hold more of x.So i highly doubt that you will be making 10-40m max from this.Lets be realistic pos fuel for large pos cost atleast 6x that so i doubt you will be able to make less them month supply of fuel from one planet.
knowledge is power |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.04.19 15:59:00 -
[36]
I am SOOOO waiting for PI to take off so well that CCP look at Moons next.
Why a POS is mining a planet 5,000 to 10,000 km away from it is stupidity. Bring on Moon Interaction with Surface mining!!
Amarr for Life |
Olusegun Obasanjo
Minmatar
CENTRAL BANK OF NIGERIA
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Posted - 2010.04.19 16:39:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Akita T
Well, if they indeed do cut out all NPC sell orders for anything that can be produced on planets come May 18, it will be an interesting rollercoaster ride to watch unfold.
i support this product and/or service
this is a complete shot in the dark, but anyone have any ideas about the value of the planets? will plasma be the new dysporo? (assuming they will be worth anything at all.
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Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.04.19 17:35:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Olusegun Obasanjo
Originally by: Akita T
Well, if they indeed do cut out all NPC sell orders for anything that can be produced on planets come May 18, it will be an interesting rollercoaster ride to watch unfold.
i support this product and/or service
this is a complete shot in the dark, but anyone have any ideas about the value of the planets? will plasma be the new dysporo? (assuming they will be worth anything at all.
They hinted that the dangerous planets will likely bring better rewards so its more then likely plasma/lava will be our tech/dyspro 
knowledge is power |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.04.19 18:14:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Celeste Coeval
Originally by: Akita T
Everybody seems to assume NPCs would instantly cease selling all products that could be manufactured via PI as soon as Tyrannis hits.
I would have to say that is a pretty bold assumption.
It is far more likely NPC sell orders for those products will remain up and running until PI has picked up some speed, or at least get ramped down in volume slowly over time.
There are no NPC orders seeded on SISI, you want POS fuel you have to build it.
The sell orders are there, simply the market Browse and Search function are broken (bug reported that).
R-click on a enriched uranium unit in your hangar and use the "view market details" option. You will see the items. Probably it work R-clicking on the build requirement of items too.
Probably CCP is in the middle of changing the item group or some other database related change and some link is broken so the items aren't found in market using the normal systems.
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Arthor Dark
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Posted - 2010.04.19 18:28:00 -
[40]
Guidance system is what is used now in t2 drone production. Guidance systemS is what is listed in t2 drone production on sisi. Similarly for all other NPC goods. Stock pile NPC goods now, they'll be worthless when the patch hits.
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Claire Voyant
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Posted - 2010.04.19 19:05:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Akita T
Well, if they indeed do cut out all NPC sell orders for anything that can be produced on planets come May 18, it will be an interesting rollercoaster ride to watch unfold.
If you like watching nearly empty roller coasters. In other words, volume will be very low until prices stabilize.
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RJ Nobel
Nobel Research and Development
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Posted - 2010.04.19 19:09:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Venkul Mul
The sell orders are there, simply the market Browse and Search function are broken (bug reported that).
Confirmed. NPC orders have not been removed from SISI.
Originally by: Grozen
No idea how much cash it makes atm on sisi but it has been confirmed that ccp will release several tiers of PI each been able to hold more of x.So i highly doubt that you will be making 10-40m max from this.Lets be realistic pos fuel for large pos cost atleast 6x that so i doubt you will be able to make less them month supply of fuel from one planet.
The general consensus of PI versions 2 and 3 (the current SISI build is 3) is that one large POS will require 6-7 null-sec planets. To keep 6 planets in full production would require around 10-15 minutes of playtime per day, or 5-7.5 hours per month. Resource extractors work on 3-6 hour cycles, so you'll need to log on and "hit refresh" on your extractors several times each day to maintain full efficiency. And remember, this is just for the NPC fuel items - you'd still have to mine/purchase your ice products.
It's possible that higher-value items, such as implants or skillbooks, will appear as the "upper" tier of PI. However, the entire design of PI focuses on the value of a product coming from the player-time invested. PI has to be properly balanced so that time in = value out in reasonable proportions. It's achievable, but quite difficult.
If you haven't been on SISI yet, I strongly encourage you to check it out and provide feedback on the test forum. The devs are genuinely looking for more quality input.
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Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.04.19 19:10:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Grozen on 19/04/2010 19:10:30
I don't really think the effect will be so big even if they remove the npc sell orders, because anyone with half brain stockpiles supplies for producing/fuel for month not once a day or something.If anyone is going to be affected its going to be someone that has just returned to eve and his pos is offline or something, starting PI is easy too so while there might be lil panic i'm sure it won't be anything major.
knowledge is power |
cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.19 21:49:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Claire Voyant
Originally by: Akita T
Well, if they indeed do cut out all NPC sell orders for anything that can be produced on planets come May 18, it will be an interesting rollercoaster ride to watch unfold.
If you like watching nearly empty roller coasters. In other words, volume will be very low until prices stabilize.
According to my calculations, and Sisi testing I can have product in Jita (any NPC consumable) within 24-48 hrs of the patch.
The only current problem seems to be that cycles don't repeat automatically and have to be done manually. Way to go CCP (if this is correct) and put more power into the hands of farmers who are on 24/7.
My current calculations show that a suitable planet (not giving my research away) returns about 30-50M ISK per month. Remember these numbers are obviously very fluid depending on price, CCP changes, etc.
Obviously it could be possible to have many planets in a system or multiple systems.
A nice system with different types of planets would be a huge bonus. With a bit of ferrying it will be possible to make the tier 4 items (none of which are for current in game products and possibly for dust)
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Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.04.19 22:54:00 -
[45]
Originally by: cosmoray
The only current problem seems to be that cycles don't repeat automatically and have to be done manually. Way to go CCP (if this is correct) and put more power into the hands of farmers who are on 24/7.
I have to disagree with this.
I can't repeat my industry or science jobs without being online, why should PI be any different?
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Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.04.19 23:32:00 -
[46]
You are both right and wrong.First its easy to repeat industry jobs because you actually set to produce x for 20days and only take care of it on day 20.Second according to cosmos research planets only give bout 50m per month and that's with a lot of work, according to him all the job has to be done manually over 24/7.
I will repeat again.Ccp said they will have different sizes of PI so they can handle more of x , there's good chance with the sizes will come more automated mining of these planets.Rare planets will bring more isk.The stuff produced for dust could be gold mine if dust comes out nice and attracts many players.
knowledge is power |
Driven Marcelli
Minmatar
Evil Overhead
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Posted - 2010.04.20 01:11:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Driven Marcelli on 20/04/2010 01:14:45
Edited by: Driven Marcelli on 20/04/2010 01:12:30
Originally by: Grozen
Originally by: Olusegun Obasanjo
Originally by: Akita T
Well, if they indeed do cut out all NPC sell orders for anything that can be produced on planets come May 18, it will be an interesting rollercoaster ride to watch unfold.
i support this product and/or service
this is a complete shot in the dark, but anyone have any ideas about the value of the planets? will plasma be the new dysporo? (assuming they will be worth anything at all.
They hinted that the dangerous planets will likely bring better rewards so its more then likely plasma/lava will be our tech/dyspro
nope, they are refering to low sec W-space and 0-0 not the type of planets. if my numbers are accurate (granted they have warned repetedly that is subject to change because there plan is to "reseed" planets when it goes live) currently its
Worst to best (number of planets scanned) note I consider the sample to be idioticaly low to be considered a truly valid sample but the trend of planet yeild was as follows
Empire (27)
Empire based W space (9) and FW zones(14) and FW Wspace 17 seem to be roughly equal
"NPC" 00 (35)
"unclamed" 0.0 was higher but not by mutch, its posible that the Sov system might kick in to buff production
NPC 00 Wspace (14) and unclamed 00(16) were so freaking high that its either a bug (over half the worlds I scanned were solid white on all 5) or intended
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Driven Marcelli
Minmatar
Evil Overhead
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Posted - 2010.04.20 02:26:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Driven Marcelli on 20/04/2010 02:34:54
ok the "hard numbers" on sisi currently
An Extactor will pull one one of 4 settings, fast to slow, slow nets you the highest posible yeild per day but takes 15 hours, Fast has the worst net yeild on a run but pulls faster. however what said processor pulls is based on what you can get and sometimes you just have to settle
However Extractors are a pain in the ass currently. they offten screw up afte a cycle and you end up tearing up extractors to reset things and then you have to go back and relay your "pipeplines"
that said the real bottle neck is the Processors, thoes take in mats, chew on them for 1800 seconds and spit out product
to get O2 (the base POS fuel) you need a single step process that nets you 20 units per 1800 seconds
so every half hour your getting 20 of the 25 units needed to run a pos for 1 hour
so far the best world I have seen suports 3.7 proccessors at the 15 hour setting per day so in theory your looking at 1 planet pushing out up to (and probably more) than 148 units(note that takes stacking extractors almost literaly on top of eachother somethig the developers have already said is getting nerfed because thats close to the yeild they expected from the high end setups, not somethig you could do with the basic TIMO setups currently on Test)
thats enough to suport almost 6 larg towers with O2
or to put it another way your looking at makeing less than
21,756 ISK per hour
522,144 ISK per day
15,664,320 ISK per moth from one planet
the above is at the current "Test server" npc sale price of around 140 pu, yes I know that the live NPC sale price is around 100
Uranium is a second teir product, it takes 40 units of Precious and 40 units of toxic metals to make 5 units of Enriched Uranium
so bascialy 2 proccesor hours feed 1 half hour cycle or 5 total proccessor hours to make 10 units of Uranium at 50,000 an hour. (the bad news is that to make this optimum level currently you need 2 diferent planets + a "factory world" however if you get 2 3.7 yeild worlds (usualy a 1-3 system hop between them in 0-0) thats 7.4 processors feeding 1.925 prossessors putting out 19.25 units of enriched uranium per hour, the live server prices for that at the station I just checked for npc orders thats
96250 per hours from 2 worlds or
48125 per hour
1,155,000 per day
34,650,000 per month
Edit note fixed the time cycle from 25 hours to 15
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Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.04.20 03:10:00 -
[49]
Thanks for the detailed explanation dude, but there are still many things to go live on PI.Most notable would be the trade center which supposedly lets you interact with other people(sharing production and lines and bla bla).Also the current imputs are not worth looking at.I'm sure they are subject to change for better.Hell it doesn't matter how big the planet deposits are the main thing is to be able to make the process easy task that doesn't require much work so far ccp fails in this task
Also i'm sure that PI will get many expansion, patches as the current version is no where near the final product they've pointed out its early aplha though i can't see how are they going to make so many changes till may.
knowledge is power |
Driven Marcelli
Minmatar
Evil Overhead
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Posted - 2010.04.20 03:55:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Driven Marcelli on 20/04/2010 04:04:03
Given that were less than 1 month from live your not going to see very drastic changes in things unless we can show them that something they have set up is completly wrong. (kind of hard to do when this has been on there internal servers being QAed for at least a full month before we ever saw it. they already know what kind of numbers to Expect)
Right now apart from the issue where you can build pins almost literaly in eachothers blue rings, thus causing a newbi TIMO set up to produce at almost the level they expected to get from the best of the best unit they had on there drawing board, and the posibility that they have used current tradegoods to hide the actual items that are produced by all of this, (kind of likely but we will find out soon enough) were more or less at the what you see is what you get point unless they somehow suprise us.
In all fairness its also posible that the developers have already seen what were seeing now (given how there development cycle works) and either are or have already made some changes to the system but thoes will turn up shorty in any event
or did you miss that they abrutly deleted the original May 18th date for Tyranis on there banners and replaced it with soon.
http://www.eveonline.com/
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Driven Marcelli
Minmatar
Evil Overhead
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Posted - 2010.04.20 04:37:00 -
[51]
ok let me be clear on some thingsl
Level 3 output items are currently things like Gel-Matrix biopaste*, Hazmat Detection Systems**, Planetary Vehicles***,
they usualy take 3 Teir 2 components to make a level a level 3 Item, in the case of Cerebrographic Composits**** you need 6 Haz mat sensors, 6 G-M Biopaste and 6 Planetary Vehicls to make just one well. Read the fine footnotes!*****
------------------
*Gel-matrix biopaste is a highly unstable substance that must be formed from elements that donÆt combine under normal circumstances. Forcing them to do so requires enormous amounts of energy, but the end product is invaluable to high-end electronics and cybernetic medicine.
**A critical component of space stations, starships, or any other isolated environment, these tiny devices are set to trigger alarms when the genetically engineered viruses inside mutate ù which means that theyÆve encountered a significant dose of radiation, natural contaminant, or airborne pathogen, signifying that the surrounding crew is in danger.(thats the flavor text explaining how it works currently in game, I kid you not!)
*** Which incidentaly is a subcomponent to a level 4 Item known as Cerebrographic Composits****, thus why I do suspect that what we have is a placeholder tradegood in at least that case. After all its kind of hard to figure out why a Cerebrographic Composit needs to be made with thoes three Items unless your suposed to tape the Hazmat Detection System to the front bumper of the planetary vehicle and ram it into a Iron plate wall covered in Gel-Matrix Biopaste. . . but I digress
****Essentially just three-dimensional images of active brain telemetry, these scans are not just for use as medical studies. Many of the most advanced computer systems use interfaces and logic routines derived from cerebrographic composites as well.
***** Considering you need to expend 6 planetary vehicls to make one. . . you have to wonder just how big the junkyard next to the prodution plant is going to be!
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cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2010.04.20 14:27:00 -
[52]
From my testing it is quite easy to make tier 2 products from 1 planet, and some tier 3 with at least 2 planets.
Tier 4 will require some decent logistics, but most of the outputs looks like it is for the dust expansion (speculation*).
I think initially corps will look to harvest planets to make all the fuel requirements to run their POS. About 6 planets seem to be required 1 large POS per month. It will certainly be easier to make on planet than ice mine.
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.04.20 15:48:00 -
[53]
Originally by: cosmoray
About 6 planets seem to be required 1 large POS per month.
Or one planet and six people, assuming the planet supplies all that is needed. Don't forget, you "can" have more then one person per planet. If a planet produces goods, I can't see why you will not have corp run planets in which the entire corp is hogging the space.
In fact I predict this will be the process for a large amount of corps that have POSes.. You're not limited to the number of planets you can harvest, Logistics takes care of one player capturing every single planet. Once one person finds the sweet setup to produce what your POS needs I can see corps saying "OK People we need you guys to set this up, check it one a day and you get {free} POS slots" or something like that. It's not as if CCP is limited the number of Planets you can manage.
Amarr for Life |
Driven Marcelli
Minmatar
Evil Overhead
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Posted - 2010.04.20 16:57:00 -
[54]
Originally by: cosmoray
From my testing it is quite easy to make tier 2 products from 1 planet, and some tier 3 with at least 2 planets.
Tier 4 will require some decent logistics, but most of the outputs looks like it is for the dust expansion (speculation*).
I think initially corps will look to harvest planets to make all the fuel requirements to run their POS. About 6 planets seem to be required 1 large POS per month. It will certainly be easier to make on planet than ice mine.
but at what volume, right now im up to feeding 4 processors 24/7 with my silo being 75% full when I reset the extractors with my ICS* style layouts, and thats on a 60/65% of max feed spot my silo is at ~75% when im resetting and I think its posible that I might be able to rebiuld to fit another proccessor without unplugging any extractors on a 15 hour feedcycle.
(yes my numbers above are a bit out of date now, They REALY need to nerf the ability to ICS spam by building them with the black bit literaly touching each other)
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*Infinite City Spam
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brokenrage
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Posted - 2010.04.21 01:28:00 -
[55]
Ive been reading this thread.
Should we expect the price of pos fuels to crash after this expansion seen as there is a now supply from the planets?
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Jarne
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Vivisection.
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Posted - 2010.04.21 10:48:00 -
[56]
The better question is: Will they remove the POS fuel NPC sell orders?
If yes, it don't think it will crash, unless by "crash" you mean skyrocket :).
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Success=Achievements/Expectations
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Mme Pinkerton
United Engineering Services
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Posted - 2010.04.21 12:31:00 -
[57]
Originally by: brokenrage
Should we expect the price of pos fuels to crash after this expansion seen as there is a now supply from the planets?
So, you probably have no idea how to get a sound answer to this question.
I don't have any idea either.
In that case the best you can do is to look at the market.
more non-NPC sellers than usual -> prices might crash;
lots of buying from NPC orders -> prices might surge;
business as usual -> nobody thinks he knows how this is going to work out.
Of course other people are usually just about as stupid as you (and I), so if you see people buying huge amounts of POS fuel that doesn't necessarily mean prices are going to rise - it just means you should look at the possibility of rising prices a second time because you might have missed something that other people have recognized.
Also, I would expect industrialists to stock up on POS fuel if they don't know what will happen (if in their opinion the probability of prices rising/falling is 50%/50%).
That being said, I have no understanding of PI and the market for NPC goods.
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2010.04.21 13:39:00 -
[58]
Finally some hard facts (reformatted by me to display the produced goods better):
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
The end rewards will come off the NPC market. Basically you'll be able to build
- POS structures
- sov structures
- POS fuel (the NPC seeded parts)
- T2 components (the NPC seeded parts again)
- station components
- nanite repair paste.
Might be forgetting something, but that's it I think
Source: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1305311&page=1#25 (Comment thread of new dev blog).
--
EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2010.04.21 14:02:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Mme Pinkerton
more non-NPC sellers than usual -> prices might crash;
lots of buying from NPC orders -> prices might surge;
business as usual -> nobody thinks he knows how this is going to work out.
It's a hard call because we don't know how complex or time consuming/steps in process these will need.
I can imagine right after DT, hundreds of people all huddling around planets deploying their stuff to make things like Robotics or Mechanical parts, the pricey fuels for POSes. Someone smart might feed it into O2 etc, knowing that everyone else will be going for the big priced items.
I actually expect POS Fuels to decrease in price pretty quickly after deployment, there will be a surge in price sure, but it WILL decline because of everyone doing it.
What I expect a price INCREASE in is things that are not on peoples radar often. Tech II manufactures of odd ball mods will know these things and those are the ones I expect price increases on.
The theory is that of Shuttles, They where valued at 5,0000 ISK. 4,500 ISK in places where they where not sold much, 9,500 ISK in places that people purchased then for reprocessing. Although these are purchased all the time they are not main stream item so people ignore them, and when they need to buy some, they are happy in paying 20,000 ISK That's 6.69 ISK per units of Trit, people are happy to pay because it's usually a one off deal.
I would expect items that are used but not consistently to be high priced, while things like POS fuel to be low price as there is lots of competition. Not to mention all of the above is voided if the process is complex or extremely time consuming. On SISI, I tried a very simple tier one process.. Water.
I found a ICE planet in which all the scans showed all the materials to be at least 60% (Pretty high I'm told)
I scanned and found the darkest deposits of Aquatic Liquids, plopped down an extractor. Plopped down a Processor, Selected Water..
6,000 units of Aquatic Liquids needed to produce 20 units of water. OK this is good, it's not 1:1 which would be crazy...
I go back to the extractor, scan for deposits and.... BOOM... Between 25 and 40 units of AL.. WT Hell!
I thought AHH good one CCP you need complexity, fair enough, I go looking for nice deposits and plot down another, create a link, another 35 units a minutes... I go for another one and "There is not enough Power to install another extractor..."
ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!
I had a look to see if I could find out what Water would be needed for and it is used in a few things but all of them say things like, need 100 to 400 units of water.
Now do the math...
6,000 units of AL to produce 20 units of water, 200 units of water to produce liquid cooling processors or something. Producing 75 units of AL a minute. It comes out to be 14 hours to produce one process of Liquid Cooled Processors. Which 15 hours the extractors shutdown.
I don't know what they go to make, I never looked but it seems excessive. So I looked at producing just Water, went to price it and NPC orders where still up for Water.
Water on T, costs about 35 ISK a unit. Water on SISI is selling from NPCs for between 1 - 1.5 ISK a unit. This was after I check to see if POS fuels where removed from NPCs (Which they are) so some commodities are going to hang around, some of them have been price adjusted.
For 14 hours of PI to produce 200 units of water, you'd get a whopping 300 ISK. Even with T's prices you'd get staggering 7,000 ISK. Expanded over a month thats 16,237.50 on S or 378,875 on T.
I'm better CCP haven't quiet finalized what is produced at what rate, it'll be until then knowing which way the price will go is difficult. Because if the process for Water above is the "norm" I would expect water to be priced at 1,000 ISK a unit. But if NPCs are selling it for 1.0 ISK it makes harvesting water stupid.
Amarr for Life |
Grozen
Caldari
Titan Core
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Posted - 2010.04.21 14:49:00 -
[60]
the current lvls of PI can not be realistic because they cannot supply anything atm what's left for pos fuel or producing anything.The scenario in which ccp increases drastically the output of everything is more then likely, the stuff atm is mostly for experiment.
knowledge is power |
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