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[SF] Star Fraction and Daisho Syndicate Peace Talks - KBP Summit

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The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.17 16:30:00 - [31] Originally by: Merdaneth What do you think my odds of success will be? Given they'd have to factor in how trustworthy you are, I wouldn't like to say. The Cosmopolite The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Erichk Knaar Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.04.17 16:33:00 - [32] Originally by: Merdaneth ... You are free to dock in NMG space, and use it for whatever purpose you choose. If we are not home, it's likely that you may be safe (be sure and take other entities into account). However, fair warning, NMG operates NBSI, and are actively training our academy at the moment.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2010.04.17 16:56:00 - [33] Edited by: Furb Killer on 17/04/2010 16:57:37 Quote: Reviewing my notes on the matter, I see at least one instance where an ambiguously worded mail was sent to no less than 35 different CEOs, claiming 60 million reparations for a Dominix. If all of them had paid, that mail would have been quite profitable for the CVA. Pretty thin line between that and some of the lowlifes in Jita, in my eyes. I have laughed with other friends of mine who have received similar mails. While the mail in that situation probably wasnt too smart written (I remember the incident), you apparently already forgot what actually happened. All those who got the mail were directly involved in an attack on a blue ship. So unlike you wrote first, they werent in any way treated unfairly, they shot a blue ship, they were given the choice of becoming red or paying for the loss, where in this case due to the many different entities involved the standard procedure didnt work out that great. But paying would only be an option when they didnt want to become KOS, if they didnt want to become KOS they shouldnt have destroyed the ship in the first place. So unlike what you insinuated, they werent deemed pirates to extort them isk, they were deemed pirates because they shot a friendly vessel without profocation.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.17 17:03:00 - [34] Originally by: Furb Killer While the mail in that situation probably wasnt too smart written (I remember the incident), you apparently already forgot what actually happened. While we are on the subject Furb Killer. Who are you? You've been quite active in anti-SF posting the last week and involved in a lot of our threads but you don't display your corp or alliance info. Would you be prepared to introduce yourself a little and explain your personal interest in these discussions? Who do you represent (if anybody)? I think it would be polite in the circumstances if we knew who you were in a political context. True Knowledge
Erichk Knaar Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.04.17 17:05:00 - [35] Originally by: Furb Killer ... In my review of the matter, including ship kill reports, that Dominix was smartbomb fit. Hardly what I would consider "without provocation".
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2010.04.17 19:08:00 - [36] Edited by: Furb Killer on 17/04/2010 19:14:19 Originally by: Erichk Knaar Originally by: Furb Killer ... In my review of the matter, including ship kill reports, that Dominix was smartbomb fit. Hardly what I would consider "without provocation". That happens sometimes against a large group of frigate class ships. But are you telling me they first scanned the ship before they opened fire? Quote: While we are on the subject Furb Killer. Who are you? Not everyone can have such, uhm, interesting career switches as you have. I dont represent anyone, besides myself. Which is also why i have my alliance and corp tickers disabled, since it wouldnt add anything to enable them. But for those interested it should not be hard to find out.
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2010.04.17 23:29:00 - [37] Originally by: ChipMo Originally by: Archbishop So in other words No. Leave my words alone, they say what they say & that is all. Perhaps you could tell me then ChipMo which of my three conclusions was incorrect? Or are they all correct interpretations of what has taken place? I will post them again for your convenience... 1. Fails to provide free transit rights for anyone but yourselves. 2. Doesn't investigate the admission of slavery. 3. Allows a NBSI entity to continue to control space and shoot everyone else. Obviously these are open for you to contest if you want to provide specifics. Thus if you can provide evidence that any of these three are incorrect I'll be happy to listen. Originally by: ChipMo Originally by: Archbishop This is a shocking revelation to be sure. Perhaps ChipMo could address these observations as I'm sure many others have made the same observations and indeed are wondering "why would they make peace with an alliance that does everything they oppose?". Archbishop Quite simple, they have shown willing to change and taken some tentative steps in the direction of Free Space. This was enough to satisfy our membership, we shall now focus on the continuing liberation of Providence. So let me get this straight. They made a few changes and moved a little toward what you want so you're satisfied? What happened to the absolute demand for freespace we've heard so much about over the years as you've justified wars against everyone in sight? Apparently the Star Fraction is not committed to the concept of freespace at all rather they're just in it for themselves. I recall past wars where you've insisted an opponent totally disavow their loyalty and beliefs and pledge to your concepts 100%. Here in this case though the opponent has done nothing of the sort instead they're keeping ALL of the things you oppose and changing NONE of them. This leads me to conclude all your past wars were just using "freespace" as some kind of excuse. Your past wars trumpted the desire for all man to be able to travel freely throughout the stars, here though we see that isn't the goal at all, now we see a backroom deal made that basically puts you into bed with someone doing everything you oppose. As I said it's like me letting a Minmatar terrorist into Amarr to kill a few people as long as they're not friends of mine as long as he lets me into Minmatar space to abduct some slaves as long as they're not his relatives. It's complete hypocrisy and a betrayal of everything you claim to stand for. Perhaps this is like those "neutral pirate" friends of Star Fraction. Since they never fired on you (oddly enough) you had no problem standing by while they slaughtered the innocent. I've always wondered why an organization so dedicated to "stopping oppression" (ie: governments) would stand by and watch people being oppressed by pirates. Given this latest "peace treaty" I now have to believe you've also had backroom deals for peace with pirates and all other sorts of malcontents. It is very hard for the Star Fraction to now claim the mantle of the "fighters for freespace". Instead you are the "backroom dealers with terrorists, pirates and whatnot who use freespace as an excuse for war". I would encourage the Star Fraction to consider the consequences of this action and the ramifications on your reputation. By publically creating a backroom deal with a group doing everything you publically claim to oppose you've crawled into bed with the enemy of freespace for your own convenience. It's damning to say the least. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL
Grr Amarr Epitoth Guard Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.18 00:34:00 - [38] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Rodj Blake PIE maintains its own standings independently of the CVA, and the CVA has never pressured us to do otherwise.So you're wrong. According to PIE Inc. Every single word I've ever spoken on this summit is "wong". Your Archbishop has devoted five years of his life to composing inumerable diatribes and condemnations against anything we say or do. Our very existence is anathema to your political, spiritual and mythological stances and we've spend the majority of our existence as an alliance having you set -10 KOS for regressive imperialist collaboration with a political entity we wish destroyed. We agree on next to nothing and likely never will. At this point I'd probably be shocked (and a little bit insulted) to read you posting anything but frenzied and frothing at the mouth denouncement of any public statement I made in any medium whatsoever. So yes Rodj Blake, you telling me I am wrong about CVA bullying standings from small entities is par for the course. In PIE's case since you were a founder member of the CVA and always used their claimed space for refuge and income when the going got too tough in empire it is no surprise YOU never got asked to set a standing you didn't agree with but I'm pretty damn sure you did abide by the CVA red list in Providence all the same. And that red-list involves a great many entities that you never likely had contact with before. But like I say, you and CVA are so close to be indistiguishable politically. Take the case instead of the many hundreds of entities who came to Providence as "neutrals" and found themselves aggressing the freespacers of the Star Fraction simply because the CVA had put our alliance name on a central red list and told lies about us being "pirates" in the Citadel channel. They didn't feel they had a choice, they felt obliged to follow the standings and "help out" against "hostile" when the CVA called. Regardless of the fact that shooting at these "hostiles" (from neutral) completed something of a fait accompli for all concerned. So no Rodj Blake. Do not come here with your lies and revisionism. You are exposed and bankrupt presently. You convince very few with your tawdry fantasies of the happy-clappy everybody is safe (as long as they condone slavery and political submission) Providence of yesteryear. Best you go back to arguing that anchoring system blockade units is not a hostile act in the other thread. Just to confirm you are in fact wrong. CVA has never forced anybody to set anybody else red nor will it ever I expect.
Karn Mithralia Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.04.18 00:37:00 - [39] Originally by: Merdaneth It is not that difficult: - Daisho Syndicate allows their friends to access their space - Daisho Syndicate disallows neutrals to access their space, they shoot anyone not known to them - Daisho Syndicate disallows hostiles to access their space, they shoot them - CVA allowed their friends to access their space - CVA allowed neutrals to access to their space, anyone not known to them was left alone - CVA disallowed hostiles access to their space, they shot them Which of the two policies is more in line with the Star Fraction concept of Freespace? Crikey, has it become dim-witted slaver month or something?! Let me explain the critical differences you appear to miss: - CVA are slavers seeking to expand the Amarrian empire and its barbaric practices to 0.0 space - Daisho seek to mind their own business in a single constellation and have no interest in slavery or expanding the Amariann empire. The big picture is important as I explained to Furb Killer somewhere else.
Merdaneth Amarr Angel Wing.	Posted - 2010.04.18 00:54:00 - [40] Originally by: Erichk Knaar Originally by: Merdaneth ... You are free to dock in NMG space, and use it for whatever purpose you choose. If we are not home, it's likely that you may be safe (be sure and take other entities into account). However, fair warning, NMG operates NBSI, and are actively training our academy at the moment. I am currently docked at the Black Mansion. I fired a few shots at a NMG Heretic blocking the gate to let him know I wanted to pass. Other NMG members were oddly and utterly silent on local comms. Perhaps they need to adjust their transmitters? ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.18 01:20:00 - [41] Originally by: Grr Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Rodj Blake PIE maintains its own standings independently of the CVA, and the CVA has never pressured us to do otherwise.So you're wrong. According to PIE Inc. Every single word I've ever spoken on this summit is "wong". Your Archbishop has devoted five years of his life to composing inumerable diatribes and condemnations against anything we say or do. Our very existence is anathema to your political, spiritual and mythological stances and we've spend the majority of our existence as an alliance having you set -10 KOS for regressive imperialist collaboration with a political entity we wish destroyed. We agree on next to nothing and likely never will. At this point I'd probably be shocked (and a little bit insulted) to read you posting anything but frenzied and frothing at the mouth denouncement of any public statement I made in any medium whatsoever. So yes Rodj Blake, you telling me I am wrong about CVA bullying standings from small entities is par for the course. In PIE's case since you were a founder member of the CVA and always used their claimed space for refuge and income when the going got too tough in empire it is no surprise YOU never got asked to set a standing you didn't agree with but I'm pretty damn sure you did abide by the CVA red list in Providence all the same. And that red-list involves a great many entities that you never likely had contact with before. But like I say, you and CVA are so close to be indistiguishable politically. Take the case instead of the many hundreds of entities who came to Providence as "neutrals" and found themselves aggressing the freespacers of the Star Fraction simply because the CVA had put our alliance name on a central red list and told lies about us being "pirates" in the Citadel channel. They didn't feel they had a choice, they felt obliged to follow the standings and "help out" against "hostile" when the CVA called. Regardless of the fact that shooting at these "hostiles" (from neutral) completed something of a fait accompli for all concerned. So no Rodj Blake. Do not come here with your lies and revisionism. You are exposed and bankrupt presently. You convince very few with your tawdry fantasies of the happy-clappy everybody is safe (as long as they condone slavery and political submission) Providence of yesteryear. Best you go back to arguing that anchoring system blockade units is not a hostile act in the other thread. Just to confirm you are in fact wrong. CVA has never forced anybody to set anybody else red nor will it ever I expect. As a member of the CVA it is almost expected you will tell bare-faced lies on the IGS. I'm glad you have chosen not to disappoint. True Knowledge
Erichk Knaar Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.04.18 06:55:00 - [42] Edited by: Erichk Knaar on 18/04/2010 06:55:07 Originally by: Merdaneth I am currently docked at the Black Mansion. I fired a few shots at a NMG Heretic blocking the gate to let him know I wanted to pass. Other NMG members were oddly and utterly silent on local comms. Perhaps they need to adjust their transmitters? Which part of "If we are not home, it's likely that you may be safe (be sure and take other entities into account). However, fair warning, NMG operates NBSI, and are actively training our academy at the moment" didn't you understand?
Merdaneth Amarr Angel Wing.	Posted - 2010.04.18 08:21:00 - [43] Originally by: Erichk Knaar Edited by: Erichk Knaar on 18/04/2010 06:55:07 Originally by: Merdaneth I am currently docked at the Black Mansion. I fired a few shots at a NMG Heretic blocking the gate to let him know I wanted to pass. Other NMG members were oddly and utterly silent on local comms. Perhaps they need to adjust their transmitters? Which part of "If we are not home, it's likely that you may be safe (be sure and take other entities into account). However, fair warning, NMG operates NBSI, and are actively training our academy at the moment" didn't you understand? I sort of read at as: "come by anytime and don't be afraid to shoot our pilots, since they need the practice and they are going to shoot you anyway" was that wrong? Also, I was not aware that your particular brand of NBSI forbids pilots to talk on local comm channels. I thought that ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.18 15:33:00 - [44] Originally by: Furb Killer Not everyone can have such, uhm, interesting career switches as you have. I'm not sure what you mean by that. Are you trying to claim somehow that I haven't always been a freespace revolutionary fighting for the cause of revolution and political freedom in new eden? Perhaps you are confusing me for somebody else. Quote: I dont represent anyone, besides myself. Which is also why i have my alliance and corp tickers disabled, since it wouldnt add anything to enable them. Well its not quite so simple is it. As you suggested I looked up your name and found you associated with Tread Alliance, an entity that earned its -10 status from the Star Fraction for firing on Free Captains (from neutral) with no warning or diplomatic interaction, simply because you were flying with the Slavers of the CVA and their creatures in the I-RED alliance. This puts you in the category of a CVA "pet" brought to Providence to shoot their political enemies to help them bulk out the imperialist defenses around the G-5/KBP pipes. Quote: I dont have any special political ideas besides that i believe in NRDS and like to promote it, instead of destroying it. I dont own slaves if you are wondering that. So you believe that NRDS is best promoted by supporting a monolithic Amarrian nationalist power that supports slavery and the expansion of Amarrian Imperial law into the frontier. From that I believe you have made the internal choice to view the surrender of personal independance a fair exchange for the "safety" that CVA military used to provide those who followed their laws. In essence you are arguing that a house slave in the villa of an Amarrian slaver is better off than a rebel in the woods outside because the slave is protected by the slaver's household guards given free roam inside the kitchens and domestic quarters. Your argument is that NRDS can only word with submission to a strong tyrannical authority that decides who must do what and as such I refute it utterly. Quote: I previously already explained my personal interests, but i will do so again. While I never really understood (or still understand) most of SFs decissions, which is also why i here ask for clarification since they seem to be random to me, I always applauded you for sticking to (some of) your principles and staying NRDS, unlike your well known friends. Which is another thing about SF i dont understand, but that is probably just me. The problem is you are a house slave of the CVA asking a free fighter to explain "freedom". And from your perspective I will freely admit that freedom is dirty, messy, inexact and frankly dangerous. It involves imperfect individuals making imperfect arrangements and cooexisting in an environment where you must think with your wits and conduct diplomacy with every stranger you see. I understand why it terrifies you. I really do. But then you are conditioned to toiling in the house of the "good master" who protects you, provides a wall around the courtyard where you work, who clothes you and makes all the decisions what are quite scary to make. He provides you your red list, your blue list, tells you who is good and who is bad and only asks that you obey his every command as price for your evening meal and sleeping pallet. People get used to slavery. You have become conditioned to it. I know that freedom worries you immensely and you fear the absence of the "good master" will require you to deal with other people who are not cowed into similar submissive thought patterns that you can understand. Quote: However what i see lately is that SF is throwing their principles away for the sake of comfort, which disapoints me. But what you cannot say. Is that SF is "hypocritical" to our principles. You have never given the impression of understanding our principles and without that knowledge how can you provide meaningful critique? Better you simply admit your ignorance and ask. True Knowledge
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.18 15:52:00 - [45] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 18/04/2010 15:55:27 As a note to the bashing bishop (using yellow text to highlight lies doesn't make them true) Originally by: Archbishop 1. Fails to provide free transit rights for anyone but yourselves. How can we "fail" in something we have never claimed to do? I advise the pernicious prelate to try reading our founding principles again and see if he can find us committing to becoming a police force and dominating others with our standings regime. Quote: 2. Doesn't investigate the admission of slavery. We did. We asked the Ushra'khan to as well. They investigated they found it was simply unwise local boasts by hot-headed pilots in KBP local with no foundation in reality. But I imagine since reading seems such a difficult accomplishment for the kibitzing curate we can forgive him this failure of engagement with the thread. Quote: 3. Allows a NBSI entity to continue to control space and shoot everyone else. Allows. Hmmm, by which he means that we don't force others to adopt their standings to ours and unify a red list that we'll enforce with fire and sword if its deviated from. Sounds a bit like we're being accused of failing because we aren't standings enclosurists like the CVA. But unlike the CVA we have done our bit for freespace radicalism here. We have defended our right to free transit wherever we choose by showing our willingness to fight and fight hard if these rights are opposed and denied. So we have succeeded in bringing an example to the daylight, a template if you will for how corporations and organizations can best ensure their own freedoms through direct action and creditable threat in space. Concepts I'm sure go right over the head of the empty-headed ecclesiast in my quotes sadly. After all, being an officer in a corporation with no signficant capability in space does rather limit the capacity for mutual military respect and weaken the position at negotiations. As indeed does being on record for the last five years as a tongue-drooling lickspittal of the Amarrian Imperialists in Providence who were happy to harbour any kind of pirates and NBSI raiders just so long as they sounded "Amarr Victor!" at the right times in parades and kept their piracy, ransoming and extortion rackets outside of the borders of Providence. Remember Garst Tyrell priest? We do. I suspect the summit does also. So 3 strikes out for 3 accusations. Not a good start. True Knowledge
Syyl'ara Gallente Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2010.04.18 17:56:00 - [46] I think the larger and relevant point here is that since you can't even agree on whether or not you can trust each other enough to have diplomatic relations demonstrates that any attempt to engage in them would produce about as useful a result as this waste of bandwidth we're all looking at right now.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.18 17:58:00 - [47] Originally by: Syyl'ara I think the larger and relevant point here is that since you can't even agree on whether or not you can trust each other enough to have diplomatic relations demonstrates that any attempt to engage in them would produce about as useful a result as this waste of bandwidth we're all looking at right now. Lets not confuse Daisho with PIE. Daisho have a presence in space and have conducted negotiations with us. PIE on the other hand are utterly worthless and present no value in discussion whatsoever. The waste of bandwidth is generally PIE pilots trying desperately to appear relevant in an political situation which is rapidly rendering their "big brother" CVA as meaningless as they are. True Knowledge
Syyl'ara Gallente Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative	Posted - 2010.04.18 18:14:00 - [48] Yes, this seems to have found its way to the wrong thread.
Mirxa's Slave	Posted - 2010.04.18 19:12:00 - [49] Jade... We would respect you a lot more if you simply admitted this peace deal was a compromise. The attempts to deny this is the case are tortuously twisted even by your own exacting standards.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.18 19:15:00 - [50] Originally by: Mirxa's Slave Jade... We would respect you a lot more if you simply admitted this peace deal was a compromise. The attempts to deny this is the case are tortuously twisted even by your own exacting standards. I care nothing for the opinions of people who are too frightened to stand up and speak with their own identities. True Knowledge
Mirxa's Slave	Posted - 2010.04.18 19:20:00 - [51] Originally by: Jade Constantine Originally by: Mirxa's Slave Jade... We would respect you a lot more if you simply admitted this peace deal was a compromise. The attempts to deny this is the case are tortuously twisted even by your own exacting standards. I care nothing for the opinions of people who are too frightened to stand up and speak with their own identities. Lamentably, simply impugning the character of those who raise the issue isn't going to make it go away.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.18 19:21:00 - [52] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 18/04/2010 19:22:40 Originally by: Mirxa's Slave Lamentably, simply impugning the character of those who raise the issue isn't going to make it go away. I have no idea who is raising the "issue" through your lips though. I prefer to know your "masters" affiliations to better understand the bias before replying substantively to anything you say. True Knowledge
Mirxa's Slave	Posted - 2010.04.18 19:26:00 - [53] Originally by: Jade Constantine I have no idea who is raising the "issue" through your lips though. I prefer to know your "masters" affiliations to better understand the bias before replying substantively to anything you say. I find it charming that you evaluate the validity of any point based on who said it.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.18 20:04:00 - [54] Originally by: Mirxa's Slave I find it charming that you evaluate the validity of any point based on who said it. Its called personal responsibility and consequence for your deeds. Welcome to the world of Star Fraction politics and being expected to stand up for what you believe in. The fact you are hiding your identity suggests either you are ashamed of it, or using a fake ID to make dishonest argumentation for malicious purposes. Neither alternative persuades me to take you seriously. True Knowledge
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2010.04.18 20:21:00 - [55] Edited by: Furb Killer on 18/04/2010 20:22:22 I cant be bothered to reply to all your points, since it is pretty much all random propaganda brought by someone who seems to be a bit mad (as understatement) and doesnt really enjoy useful replies but rather random flames and obvious lies, however one point: Quote: o you believe that NRDS is best promoted by supporting a monolithic Amarrian nationalist power that supports slavery and the expansion of Amarrian Imperial law into the frontier. Rather than then by supporting and napping as many nbsi alliances you can find without having the balls to attack nbsi alliances. That is kinda hypocrite (you wanted to hear that word i believe).
Mirxa's Slave FCON Aerarium Militare Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.04.18 20:22:00 - [56] Originally by: Jade Constantine Its called personal responsibility and consequence for your deeds. Many people might mistake it for bias. I notice you have continued to fail to address my point.
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.18 20:28:00 - [57] Originally by: Mirxa's Slave I notice you have continued to fail to address my point. You haven't made any. True Knowledge
Jade Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.04.18 20:31:00 - [58] Edited by: Jade Constantine on 18/04/2010 20:30:52 Originally by: Furb Killer I cant be bothered to reply to all your points... Thats because you have nothing to say. Your master did all the thinking for you and now you are feeling alone and afraid without his orders. True Knowledge
Mirxa's Slave FCON Aerarium Militare Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.04.18 20:57:00 - [59] Allow me to remind you: Originally by: Mirxa's Slave We would respect you a lot more if you simply admitted this peace deal was a compromise. The attempts to deny this is the case are tortuously twisted even by your own exacting standards. You could have saved both yourself and the reader a substantial ammount of time if you had discussed this initially.
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2010.04.18 21:01:00 - [60] Originally by: Jade Constantine How can we "fail" in something we have never claimed to do? I advise the pernicious prelate to try reading our founding principles again and see if he can find us committing to becoming a police force and dominating others with our standings regime. So you now admit you have never been for the "cause" of free space an actualy state of existence for anyone but yourself. After all since you've always advocated people fight for themselves this becomes even more apparent. In retrospect we can now say with our own affirmation you have never been about the grand concept of "free space" rather you have just been about free space for yourself. You've never intended anyone else to be "free" to travel anywhere they want. This is actually very revealing Jade thank you. Quote: We did. We asked the Ushra'khan to as well. They investigated they found it was simply unwise local boasts by hot-headed pilots in KBP local with no foundation in reality. But I imagine since reading seems such a difficult accomplishment for the kibitzing curate we can forgive him this failure of engagement with the thread. Given the close vote of your membership it sure doesn't look like everyone believes it's a false boast. Beyond that point though you've never addressed your own relationship to a well known slave owner. How do you justify your personal romantic involvement with someone who has been known to torture and execute slaves while at the same time claiming to dislike slavery? It certainly seems hypocritical. Quote: Allows. Hmmm, by which he means that we don't force others to adopt their standings to ours and unify a red list that we'll enforce with fire and sword if its deviated from. Sounds a bit like we're being accused of failing because we aren't standings enclosurists like the CVA. But you are. Every action you've taken is to seek to force others who don't agree with your point of view to follow your desires. You don't seem to realize that picking up the sword against people who willingly lived in Providence under it's rules was basically forcing them to adopt your beliefs. You didn't give them a "choice". Indeed they always had the choice to leave or stay in the first place. Your forcing your "will" on them by the sword thus oppressed their free choice. Quote: But unlike the CVA we have done our bit for freespace radicalism here. We have defended our right to free transit wherever we choose by showing our willingness to fight and fight hard if these rights are opposed and denied. So we have succeeded in bringing an example to the daylight, a template if you will for how corporations and organizations can best ensure their own freedoms through direct action and creditable threat in space. It's a great template... if you don't mind oppressing people to get what you want and acting like the neighborhood bully all the time. I look back at your encounters in Mito and your camping KD in stations for weeks on end until many of their pilots up and quite the pod forever (a great accomplishment I'm sure). I recall you once saying "They can surrender properly or quit I don't care". Wishing pilots who had attained capsuleer status a life without such ability seems quite harsh for someone who in the same breath claims capsuleers are Gods does it not? It sure seems that way to me. I now see the truth of the Star Fraction. You are not about free space at all. Free space in and of itself is a noble concept (as long as Amarrian law is upheld). You're nothing about free space your all about yourself. That explains how you can run backroom deals with groups that behave in ways you totally disagree with. Have you considered you would probably not have been KOS to CVA (and everyone else) if you'd never attempted to extort CVA and attacked PIE over the Mamet 500? Again you were trying to force your will on others. Not much difference. Archbishop PIE WEBSITE ARCHBISHOP PORTAL

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